Therapists in Blacksburg, VA

Photo of Michael Orndoff, Clinical Social Work/Therapist in Blacksburg, VA
Michael Orndoff
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, LCSW
Verified Verified
Blacksburg, VA 24060
Michael Orndoff is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker (LCSW) with over 4 years of experience in the field of Social Work. He is passionate about helping adults, adolescents, and couples manage their own unique challenges in their daily life. Michael specializes in relationship issues, depression, career concerns, anger management, building self-esteem, and parenting concerns. Michael completed his Master's Degree in Social Work from Norfolk State University and his Bachelor's degree in Social Work from Virginia Wesleyan University.
Michael Orndoff is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker (LCSW) with over 4 years of experience in the field of Social Work. He is passionate about helping adults, adolescents, and couples manage their own unique challenges in their daily life. Michael specializes in relationship issues, depression, career concerns, anger management, building self-esteem, and parenting concerns. Michael completed his Master's Degree in Social Work from Norfolk State University and his Bachelor's degree in Social Work from Virginia Wesleyan University.
(540) 517-6020 View (540) 517-6020
Photo of Darian Phillips Fawbush, Licensed Professional Counselor in Blacksburg, VA
Darian Phillips Fawbush
Licensed Professional Counselor, LPC
Verified Verified
Blacksburg, VA 24060
Darian Phillips Fawbush is a Licensed Professional Counselor (LPC) with over 4 years of experience in the mental health field. Darian specializes in depression, anxiety, trauma, relationship issues, women's issues, rural mental health, and the intersectionality of familial, social, and cultural dynamics that can bring a diverse range of challenges. Darian identifies as an ally of the LGBTQIA+ community and affirms all spiritual or religious beliefs. Darian completed her Bachelor's degree in Psychology from the University of Virginia's College-Wise, and her Master's degree in Counseling Education from Virginia Tech.
Darian Phillips Fawbush is a Licensed Professional Counselor (LPC) with over 4 years of experience in the mental health field. Darian specializes in depression, anxiety, trauma, relationship issues, women's issues, rural mental health, and the intersectionality of familial, social, and cultural dynamics that can bring a diverse range of challenges. Darian identifies as an ally of the LGBTQIA+ community and affirms all spiritual or religious beliefs. Darian completed her Bachelor's degree in Psychology from the University of Virginia's College-Wise, and her Master's degree in Counseling Education from Virginia Tech.
(540) 274-2627 View (540) 274-2627
Photo of Sarah Rash, Licensed Professional Counselor in Blacksburg, VA
Sarah Rash
Licensed Professional Counselor, LPC
Verified Verified
Blacksburg, VA 24060
Sarah Rash is a Licensed Professional Counselor (LPC) with 7 years of combined experience working in a variety of counseling venues. She has a passion for helping adults understand and navigate the challenges they face as a result of life circumstances or diagnoses to lead to more rewarding day-to-day lives. Sarah specializes in anxiety, depression, grief, coping skills education, self-esteem, some trauma work, and self-exploration/growth.
Sarah Rash is a Licensed Professional Counselor (LPC) with 7 years of combined experience working in a variety of counseling venues. She has a passion for helping adults understand and navigate the challenges they face as a result of life circumstances or diagnoses to lead to more rewarding day-to-day lives. Sarah specializes in anxiety, depression, grief, coping skills education, self-esteem, some trauma work, and self-exploration/growth.
(540) 307-2453 View (540) 307-2453
Photo of Amber Eversole, LPC, PLLC, Licensed Professional Counselor in Blacksburg, VA
Amber Eversole, LPC, PLLC
Licensed Professional Counselor, MA, LPC
Verified Verified
2 Endorsed
Blacksburg, VA 24060
I am honored to be able to work with individuals and couples and to be a part of their journey towards living a better life. I believe that everyone is doing the best they can and they are also able to do better given new perspectives and skills. I have experience working with young adults, adults, and couples. I believe it is difficult for many to take the first step and reach out for help. I strive to provide a welcoming and nonjudgmental environment in which you feel comfortable to discuss your story and to build an effective therapeutic relationship.
I am honored to be able to work with individuals and couples and to be a part of their journey towards living a better life. I believe that everyone is doing the best they can and they are also able to do better given new perspectives and skills. I have experience working with young adults, adults, and couples. I believe it is difficult for many to take the first step and reach out for help. I strive to provide a welcoming and nonjudgmental environment in which you feel comfortable to discuss your story and to build an effective therapeutic relationship.
(980) 222-0104 View (980) 222-0104
Photo of Maria Flaccavento, Pre-Licensed Professional in Blacksburg, VA
Maria Flaccavento
Pre-Licensed Professional, MEd, MFA, LMHP-R
Verified Verified
1 Endorsed
Blacksburg, VA 24060
I am a native to SWVA with a background in yoga and creative arts. I love learning new things and working with clients to explore the most effective and engaging tools for their journey. I am especially interested in the ways that language shapes cognition. I think that people are inherently motivated toward meaning, and that when we build curiosity for something (like our mind or our suffering), it's harder to hate or be fearful of it. I'm interested in helping you to access your inner resources and live your life the way you want to live it. Healing is bold and unpredictable. It's a privilege to accompany you through the process.
I am a native to SWVA with a background in yoga and creative arts. I love learning new things and working with clients to explore the most effective and engaging tools for their journey. I am especially interested in the ways that language shapes cognition. I think that people are inherently motivated toward meaning, and that when we build curiosity for something (like our mind or our suffering), it's harder to hate or be fearful of it. I'm interested in helping you to access your inner resources and live your life the way you want to live it. Healing is bold and unpredictable. It's a privilege to accompany you through the process.
(540) 616-2108 View (540) 616-2108
Photo of Patty Jean Albert, Pastoral Counselor in Blacksburg, VA
Patty Jean Albert
Pastoral Counselor, LPC, LTT
Verified Verified
Blacksburg, VA 24060
Some clients are specifically looking for a faith-based therapy. Our services offer individualized temperament therapeutic care based on the Word of God. Our mission is to offer affordable Biblical counseling that equips clients with tools for success and healing. Our goal is to bring women to a better understanding of themselves and their Creator. We achieve this by the temperament profile method, providing a neutral safe space, listening to your concerns, and giving seed (God’s Word) to form a plan of wisdom and direction, with hope and compassion.
Some clients are specifically looking for a faith-based therapy. Our services offer individualized temperament therapeutic care based on the Word of God. Our mission is to offer affordable Biblical counseling that equips clients with tools for success and healing. Our goal is to bring women to a better understanding of themselves and their Creator. We achieve this by the temperament profile method, providing a neutral safe space, listening to your concerns, and giving seed (God’s Word) to form a plan of wisdom and direction, with hope and compassion.
(540) 410-1829 View (540) 410-1829
Photo of Hollie O'Connor, Clinical Social Work/Therapist in Blacksburg, VA
Hollie O'Connor
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, LCSW
Verified Verified
Blacksburg, VA 24060  (Online Only)
Hollie L. O'Connor is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker and substance use professional with 11 years of experience in the field of mental health and addictions. She is passionate about helping adolescents, teens, adults, and couples address their unique challenges and work toward improving their overall quality of life. Hollie specializes in anxiety, depression, anger, trauma, substance use disorders, borderline personality disorder, major life transitions, grief and loss, and relationship issues. She is a veteran of the U.S. Air Force, where she served for 6 years during Desert Shield/Desert Storm 2 years in the Reserves.
Hollie L. O'Connor is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker and substance use professional with 11 years of experience in the field of mental health and addictions. She is passionate about helping adolescents, teens, adults, and couples address their unique challenges and work toward improving their overall quality of life. Hollie specializes in anxiety, depression, anger, trauma, substance use disorders, borderline personality disorder, major life transitions, grief and loss, and relationship issues. She is a veteran of the U.S. Air Force, where she served for 6 years during Desert Shield/Desert Storm 2 years in the Reserves.
(540) 579-5359 View (540) 579-5359
Photo of Elizabeth Fariello, Clinical Social Work/Therapist in Blacksburg, VA
Elizabeth Fariello
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, LCSW
Verified Verified
Blacksburg, VA 24060
Are you a woman struggling with anxiety? Do you find yourself having a difficult time coping with everyday life? If so, I get it. Anxiety, and all of its related issues, can be paralyzing. And it can manifest in many forms. For women, we struggle with so many things: comparing ourselves to others, an unhealthy focus on our bodies, striving for perfection(even when we don't expect it in others), and just plain old burn out when it all becomes too much. Alot of us also struggle with past experiences that may have left deep wounds. It can be overwhelming!
Are you a woman struggling with anxiety? Do you find yourself having a difficult time coping with everyday life? If so, I get it. Anxiety, and all of its related issues, can be paralyzing. And it can manifest in many forms. For women, we struggle with so many things: comparing ourselves to others, an unhealthy focus on our bodies, striving for perfection(even when we don't expect it in others), and just plain old burn out when it all becomes too much. Alot of us also struggle with past experiences that may have left deep wounds. It can be overwhelming!
(540) 695-0250 View (540) 695-0250
Photo of Tara Lineberry, Licensed Professional Counselor in Blacksburg, VA
Tara Lineberry
Licensed Professional Counselor, LCSW
Verified Verified
Blacksburg, VA 24060
Tara Lineberry is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker in the state of Virginia and has over 15 years of experience assisting children, adolescents, adults, and couples with mental health, relationship, and trauma concerns. She completed her Bachelor of Science in Human Development/Human Services from Virginia Tech and received her Master of Social Work from the University of Southern California. Tara has experience conducting therapeutic sessions in both the inpatient psychiatric and outpatient mental health settings.
Tara Lineberry is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker in the state of Virginia and has over 15 years of experience assisting children, adolescents, adults, and couples with mental health, relationship, and trauma concerns. She completed her Bachelor of Science in Human Development/Human Services from Virginia Tech and received her Master of Social Work from the University of Southern California. Tara has experience conducting therapeutic sessions in both the inpatient psychiatric and outpatient mental health settings.
(540) 755-3357 View (540) 755-3357
Photo of Toshia Curfiss, Licensed Professional Counselor in Blacksburg, VA
Toshia Curfiss
Licensed Professional Counselor, LPC, CPT, CNC
Verified Verified
1 Endorsed
Blacksburg, VA 24061
I offer counseling for anxiety, depression, life adjustment, grief, stress management and variety of other situations in which we need a place to talk things out. I utilize strategies including cognitive behavioral therapy, solution focused therapy, and mindfulness techniques. I always work from a client centered approach as we are all unique individuals.
I offer counseling for anxiety, depression, life adjustment, grief, stress management and variety of other situations in which we need a place to talk things out. I utilize strategies including cognitive behavioral therapy, solution focused therapy, and mindfulness techniques. I always work from a client centered approach as we are all unique individuals.
(540) 698-4947 View (540) 698-4947
Photo of Susan Mitchell, Clinical Social Work/Therapist in Blacksburg, VA
Susan Mitchell
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, LCSW, MSW
Verified Verified
1 Endorsed
Blacksburg, VA 24063  (Online Only)
Life is hard and so much is beyond our control. Just trying to survive can be exhausting. If you are struggling mentally and emotionally, and you feel overwhelmed or alone, I want you to know... you don’t have to go on feeling this way. With more than 25 years in practice, I’ve helped many clients through dark and difficult times. I promote an atmosphere of “teamwork” and have an interactive therapy style, offering clients supportive, yet honest, feedback.
Life is hard and so much is beyond our control. Just trying to survive can be exhausting. If you are struggling mentally and emotionally, and you feel overwhelmed or alone, I want you to know... you don’t have to go on feeling this way. With more than 25 years in practice, I’ve helped many clients through dark and difficult times. I promote an atmosphere of “teamwork” and have an interactive therapy style, offering clients supportive, yet honest, feedback.
(910) 601-9685 View (910) 601-9685
Photo of Christopher Flynn, Psychologist in Blacksburg, VA
Christopher Flynn
Psychologist, PhD
Verified Verified
Blacksburg, VA 24060
My therapy practice is built upon foundational beliefs about confidentiality, mutual respect, honesty, and transparency; the therapeutic relationship forms a safe environment in which to explore feelings, worries, distress, and decisions about the future. During my career, I have worked with clients who may be dealing with grief and loss, trauma, emotional distress, and illness. I welcome individuals and couples in therapy who may be dealing with interpersonal difficulties or internal distress. I have been involved in the psychology field as a therapist, professor, supervisor and administrator with a primary focus on therapy.
My therapy practice is built upon foundational beliefs about confidentiality, mutual respect, honesty, and transparency; the therapeutic relationship forms a safe environment in which to explore feelings, worries, distress, and decisions about the future. During my career, I have worked with clients who may be dealing with grief and loss, trauma, emotional distress, and illness. I welcome individuals and couples in therapy who may be dealing with interpersonal difficulties or internal distress. I have been involved in the psychology field as a therapist, professor, supervisor and administrator with a primary focus on therapy.
(540) 329-8124 View (540) 329-8124
Photo of Mindy Jackson, Licensed Professional Counselor in Blacksburg, VA
Mindy Jackson
Licensed Professional Counselor, LPC
Verified Verified
1 Endorsed
Blacksburg, VA 24060
Are you experiencing life stressors, relationship difficulties, or struggling with anxiety or depression? Have you experienced loss in your life? We all deal with different challenges in our lives, and we all need a safe place to share our thoughts, emotions, hopes, and goals. I provide a safe, nonjudgmental space for you to share your story, to feel supported, and to be heard. Together, we will acknowledge and process the struggles you have experienced, and clarify your goals. Then, we can work together to find a path forward.
Are you experiencing life stressors, relationship difficulties, or struggling with anxiety or depression? Have you experienced loss in your life? We all deal with different challenges in our lives, and we all need a safe place to share our thoughts, emotions, hopes, and goals. I provide a safe, nonjudgmental space for you to share your story, to feel supported, and to be heard. Together, we will acknowledge and process the struggles you have experienced, and clarify your goals. Then, we can work together to find a path forward.
(276) 208-8523 View (276) 208-8523
Photo of Cassandra Simpson, Licensed Professional Counselor in Blacksburg, VA
Cassandra Simpson
Licensed Professional Counselor, LPC
Verified Verified
Blacksburg, VA 24060  (Online Only)
Cassandra Simpson is an LPC who has 5 years of experience providing clients with clinical therapeutic assessment and treatment of depression/anxiety, trauma, relationship issues, and mood regulation. Cassandra is also specialized in assisting clients who are currently experiencing or have previously endured domestic/intimate partner violence. Cassandra completed her Bachelor of Applied Science (BAS) in Administration of Justice at Northern Arizona University and her Master of Arts (MA) in Professional Counseling at Ottawa University in Phoenix, Arizona.
Cassandra Simpson is an LPC who has 5 years of experience providing clients with clinical therapeutic assessment and treatment of depression/anxiety, trauma, relationship issues, and mood regulation. Cassandra is also specialized in assisting clients who are currently experiencing or have previously endured domestic/intimate partner violence. Cassandra completed her Bachelor of Applied Science (BAS) in Administration of Justice at Northern Arizona University and her Master of Arts (MA) in Professional Counseling at Ottawa University in Phoenix, Arizona.
(540) 573-2836 View (540) 573-2836
Photo of Johanna Jones, Licensed Professional Counselor in Blacksburg, VA
Johanna Jones
Licensed Professional Counselor, LPC
Verified Verified
Blacksburg, VA 24060
Johanna Jones is a Licensed Professional Counselor with a focus on adults, and she has a special place in her heart for LGBTQ populations, the mentally ill, and those who identify with Asperger's Syndrome.
Johanna Jones is a Licensed Professional Counselor with a focus on adults, and she has a special place in her heart for LGBTQ populations, the mentally ill, and those who identify with Asperger's Syndrome.
(540) 299-1574 View (540) 299-1574
Photo of Stephanie A. Fearer, Psychologist in Blacksburg, VA
Stephanie A. Fearer
Psychologist, PhD, LCP
Verified Verified
1 Endorsed
Blacksburg, VA 24060
Not accepting new clients
I welcome the opportunity to work with individuals looking for help with issues including substance use, depression, bipolar, anxiety, trauma, life transition, and more. I offer individual sessions for adults as well as couple sessions. I enjoy working with clients from different cultures, backgrounds, and experiences.
I welcome the opportunity to work with individuals looking for help with issues including substance use, depression, bipolar, anxiety, trauma, life transition, and more. I offer individual sessions for adults as well as couple sessions. I enjoy working with clients from different cultures, backgrounds, and experiences.
(540) 361-6676 View (540) 361-6676
Photo of Brianne Burden, Licensed Professional Counselor in Blacksburg, VA
Brianne Burden
Licensed Professional Counselor, LPC
Verified Verified
Blacksburg, VA 24060  (Online Only)
I believe, that most often times, it takes an individual to experience significant pain or dissatisfaction in their life in order for them to pursue counseling and change. I understand that the step to reach out and ask for assistance with life’s issues is a huge step and I do not take that lightly. As your therapist, it is my commitment to come along side of you and support you through the more challenging times in life.
I believe, that most often times, it takes an individual to experience significant pain or dissatisfaction in their life in order for them to pursue counseling and change. I understand that the step to reach out and ask for assistance with life’s issues is a huge step and I do not take that lightly. As your therapist, it is my commitment to come along side of you and support you through the more challenging times in life.
(540) 215-7654 View (540) 215-7654
Photo of Dana Diamond, Clinical Social Work/Therapist in Blacksburg, VA
Dana Diamond
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, LCSW
Verified Verified
Blacksburg, VA 24060
Dana holds a Master's Degree in Social Work and is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker with over 6 years of experience providing various levels of care to clients. Dana has experience in crisis counseling through a 24/7 program and completing psychiatric evaluations. Dana also has worked with children and families in their homes providing family therapy. She specializes in treating anxiety, depression, behavioral issues, and family conflict. Dana enjoys working with young adults and helping them navigate the many changes that occur during young adulthood.Dana focuses on building rapport with clients and helping clients feel empowered.
Dana holds a Master's Degree in Social Work and is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker with over 6 years of experience providing various levels of care to clients. Dana has experience in crisis counseling through a 24/7 program and completing psychiatric evaluations. Dana also has worked with children and families in their homes providing family therapy. She specializes in treating anxiety, depression, behavioral issues, and family conflict. Dana enjoys working with young adults and helping them navigate the many changes that occur during young adulthood.Dana focuses on building rapport with clients and helping clients feel empowered.
(540) 215-2366 View (540) 215-2366
Photo of Rosana Lopez Haugh, Clinical Social Work/Therapist in Blacksburg, VA
Rosana Lopez Haugh
Clinical Social Work/Therapist
Verified Verified
Blacksburg, VA 24060
Rosana Lopez Haugh received her Master's in Social Work, Planning, and Administration from Virginia Commonwealth University and has over 25 years of experience in the field of social work, advocating and serving people with disabilities in their community. Rosana has extensive experience working with children and adults assisting them in both English and Spanish language. She received her undergraduate degree in Studio Art from Mary Washington University and also worked as an accomplished artist.
Rosana Lopez Haugh received her Master's in Social Work, Planning, and Administration from Virginia Commonwealth University and has over 25 years of experience in the field of social work, advocating and serving people with disabilities in their community. Rosana has extensive experience working with children and adults assisting them in both English and Spanish language. She received her undergraduate degree in Studio Art from Mary Washington University and also worked as an accomplished artist.
(540) 701-4919 View (540) 701-4919
Photo of Miriam Bhutta, Counselor in Blacksburg, VA
Miriam Bhutta
Counselor, LMHC, LPC
Verified Verified
Blacksburg, VA 24060  (Online Only)
I am a licensed psychotherapist seeing clients in New York, Virginia, and Delaware. I have experience in working with clients from a wide range of backgrounds and identities. You are here because something in your life needs to change; there is a gap between where you are and where you want to be. I'm here to help you figure out what needs to change in order for you to close that gap.
I am a licensed psychotherapist seeing clients in New York, Virginia, and Delaware. I have experience in working with clients from a wide range of backgrounds and identities. You are here because something in your life needs to change; there is a gap between where you are and where you want to be. I'm here to help you figure out what needs to change in order for you to close that gap.
(516) 588-6799 View (516) 588-6799

How does your Therapist compare?

Number of Therapists in Blacksburg, VA

100+

Average cost per session

$140

Therapists in Blacksburg, VA who prioritize treating:

93% Anxiety
86% Depression
75% Self Esteem
68% Relationship Issues
66% Stress
65% Trauma and PTSD
63% Life Transitions

Average years in practice

12 Years

Top 3 insurances accepted

80% Anthem | Elevance
70% Aetna
68% BlueCross and BlueShield

How Therapists in Blacksburg, VA see their clients

68% In Person and Online
32% Online Only

Gender breakdown

77% Female
23% Male
FAQs - About Therapy and Counseling

How can I find a therapist in Blacksburg?

Search for nearby therapists or counselors by inputting your city, town, or suburb; or zip code; or a provider’s name into the search bar. From there, you can filter providers by the issues they treat, cost, insurance, gender, and other factors to find providers who are well-suited to your needs. To navigate between locations within the same country, enter a new city or zip code into the search bar.

Learn more about how to find a therapist

Is everyone in the Psychology Today Therapy Directory a licensed therapist?

The Psychology Today directory lists providers who offer legitimate mental health services to the public, including psychologists, psychiatrists, social workers, and counselors.

Many have been licensed by the country or state where they practice; providers whose license or primary credential has been verified by Psychology Today are signified by a “Verified” symbol. Some clinicians or organizations provide services for which their state or country does not offer licenses, such as pastoral counseling. They may be selectively included without the “Verified” seal.

What’s the difference between a psychologist, a therapist, and a counselor?

Therapists, psychologists, and counselors are all licensed mental health professionals. In the US, psychologists have earned a doctoral degree. The terms “therapist” and “counselor” are used somewhat interchangeably, but generally therapists offer longer-term, mental health care, while counselors offer shorter-term care that may focus on one domain, such as marriage, career, or academic challenges.

Clients should consider factors such as insurance coverage and their primary reason(s) for seeking therapy to determine the type of professional best suited to their needs. Someone struggling with mental health challenges such as depression or anxiety, for example, may wish to seek out a clinical psychologist or therapist, while someone navigating career obstacles or marital upheaval may benefit from seeing a counselor who can offer short-term, targeted support.

What type of therapy is right for me?

The type of therapy best suited to a particular individual depends on several factors, including their primary reason for seeking therapy, their preferred timeline (some therapy types last for a set number of sessions, while others are open-ended), and their personality and preferences—some may prefer a more structured approach. For many individuals, multiple types of therapy could provide a good fit.

How much does therapy cost?

The cost of therapy depends on a number of variables, including location and the therapist’s experience and training. On average, a therapy session in the United States could cost between $100 and $200 or more. If you have insurance, the expense of mental health care is typically lower, but it varies based on your insurance plan details and whether you choose an in-network or out-of-network mental healthcare provider.

What are more affordable or low cost therapy solutions?

Many therapists offer sliding scale payments, usually on a limited number of slots, which consists in an agreement between the therapist and a client to pay a reduced rate. Therapists who provide such arrangements often consider the client's income or ability to pay, but the extent of the discount is ultimately at the therapist's discretion. Furthermore, while group therapy may have different goals and benefits compared to individual therapy, it can be a more affordable solution to address certain types of issues.

Is online therapy cheaper than in-person therapy?

Many therapists charge the same amount for online therapy as they do for in-person therapy—though clients may still find this cost-effective if it cuts down on their transportation costs. Health insurance plans often offer equivalent coverage for online and in-person therapy; indeed, in many places, they are legally required to do so. Text-based or on-demand therapy apps may be cheaper than traditional one-on-one psychotherapy; however, the practice may be less effective and is not likely to be covered by insurance.

Is online therapy a good option?

Therapy conducted online can be just as effective as in-person therapy, as long as there is a strong alliance between the client and the therapist. To find a therapist who provides telehealth services to clients in your area, click “Online Therapy” on the directory homepage and search by your city or town or your zip code.

Are therapy sessions confidential?

Confidentiality is a crucial part of the therapeutic relationship. Therapists in the United States are bound by the regulations set out by the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA), which aims to protect sensitive health information. With very few exceptions, a therapist will only discuss their client with others when the client has given their written permission. The instances in which a therapist would be required to disclose personal information are: if a client poses a danger to themselves or others, if the therapist suspects the abuse of a child or an elderly or otherwise dependent adult, or if they are legally forced to by court order. These exceptions to the confidentiality agreement are usually discussed with a client before their first session.