Therapists in Westerville, OH

Photo of Rachel Keay-McVay, Licensed Professional Counselor in Westerville, OH
Rachel Keay-McVay
Licensed Professional Counselor, LPC
Verified Verified
Westerville, OH 43081
There is a curious habit that I've noticed, especially when working with teens, that clients will mostly only work on the "issue of the week." This can have numerous benefits and can also delay the client's progress on any underlying concerns or patterns. Ideally, once a client has agreed to their treatment goals, they continue to take attainable steps towards that goal in therapy and in their daily life. When a client feels comfortable with their therapist to share their thoughts, emotions, and vulnerabilities, then deeper work can happen.
There is a curious habit that I've noticed, especially when working with teens, that clients will mostly only work on the "issue of the week." This can have numerous benefits and can also delay the client's progress on any underlying concerns or patterns. Ideally, once a client has agreed to their treatment goals, they continue to take attainable steps towards that goal in therapy and in their daily life. When a client feels comfortable with their therapist to share their thoughts, emotions, and vulnerabilities, then deeper work can happen.
(380) 333-4253 View (380) 333-4253
Photo of Norline Ford, Licensed Professional Clinical Counselor in Westerville, OH
Norline Ford
Licensed Professional Clinical Counselor, MA, LPCC, NCC
Verified Verified
Westerville, OH 43081
Waitlist for new clients
My heart and passion is to see others achieve happiness and healthiness. To be the best version of themselves possible. As a wife and a mother to teenagers I understand how life can be overwhelming at times. No matter what stage of life you are in I invite you to reach out and schedule a session today.
My heart and passion is to see others achieve happiness and healthiness. To be the best version of themselves possible. As a wife and a mother to teenagers I understand how life can be overwhelming at times. No matter what stage of life you are in I invite you to reach out and schedule a session today.
(614) 918-4145 x714 View (614) 918-4145 x714
Photo of Bradley K. Fox, Psychologist in Westerville, OH
Bradley K. Fox
Psychologist, PhD
Verified Verified
Westerville, OH 43081
Not accepting new clients
Sometimes we hit a wall. Maybe we would usually describe our life as going pretty well, but lately we find it harder to find motivation, or we’re more irritable, anxious, or just plain sad. Sometimes we’ve struggled a long time (with nightmares, stress, bad memories, or feeling depressed) and it's beyond what a friend can help with. Whether your goals are to manage emotions, sleep better, think more clearly, feel better about yourself or key relationships, finally accept what can't be changed, better understand relationship patterns, or find a deeper sense of purpose and meaning in life, counseling / psychotherapy may be helpful.
Sometimes we hit a wall. Maybe we would usually describe our life as going pretty well, but lately we find it harder to find motivation, or we’re more irritable, anxious, or just plain sad. Sometimes we’ve struggled a long time (with nightmares, stress, bad memories, or feeling depressed) and it's beyond what a friend can help with. Whether your goals are to manage emotions, sleep better, think more clearly, feel better about yourself or key relationships, finally accept what can't be changed, better understand relationship patterns, or find a deeper sense of purpose and meaning in life, counseling / psychotherapy may be helpful.
(614) 924-7411 x3 View (614) 924-7411 x3
Photo of Barbara Turman, Marriage & Family Therapist in Westerville, OH
Barbara Turman
Marriage & Family Therapist, IMFT, LICDC, LMFT
Verified Verified
Westerville, OH 43081
DO You Feel Like You Haven't Been Heard! I utilize a solution-focused, and client-centered approach, which includes identifying relationships that may be directly or indirectly impacting your ability to function at your highest level. I believe your relationship with yourself; impacts how you view and interact with the world and those around you. First, we will identify the primary stressors causing you dis-ease, then create a treatment plan that allows you to be the person you desire, and address the barriers impacting you. I treat couples, blended families, relational conflicts, substance abuse, depression, anxiety, grief, etc.
DO You Feel Like You Haven't Been Heard! I utilize a solution-focused, and client-centered approach, which includes identifying relationships that may be directly or indirectly impacting your ability to function at your highest level. I believe your relationship with yourself; impacts how you view and interact with the world and those around you. First, we will identify the primary stressors causing you dis-ease, then create a treatment plan that allows you to be the person you desire, and address the barriers impacting you. I treat couples, blended families, relational conflicts, substance abuse, depression, anxiety, grief, etc.
(614) 721-9221 View (614) 721-9221
Photo of Scott Bone, Licensed Professional Clinical Counselor in Westerville, OH
Scott Bone
Licensed Professional Clinical Counselor, MA, LPCC, NCC, CDCA
Verified Verified
2 Endorsed
Westerville, OH 43081
I earned a master's degree in clinical counseling from Northwestern University and pursued counseling because my life experience put me in a unique position to help people overcome difficult circumstances in their lives. Since childhood, I've endured ceaseless adversity that's made it essential to have a safe place to explore my past, present and future. The gift of counseling was the beginning of my healing journey and the first time, in a long time, I'd felt hopeful. After over a decade in corporate America, it became clear that my passion is to provide those who are struggling access to the same opportunity for personal growth.
I earned a master's degree in clinical counseling from Northwestern University and pursued counseling because my life experience put me in a unique position to help people overcome difficult circumstances in their lives. Since childhood, I've endured ceaseless adversity that's made it essential to have a safe place to explore my past, present and future. The gift of counseling was the beginning of my healing journey and the first time, in a long time, I'd felt hopeful. After over a decade in corporate America, it became clear that my passion is to provide those who are struggling access to the same opportunity for personal growth.
(614) 426-0160 x716 View (614) 426-0160 x716
Photo of Lauren Wright, Clinical Social Work/Therapist in Westerville, OH
Lauren Wright
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, LISW
Verified Verified
Westerville, OH 43081
I have experience working with all ages, and have specialized in working with teens and young adults for the past 8 years. I help individuals manage depression, anxiety, PTSD and major life adjustments/transitions.
I have experience working with all ages, and have specialized in working with teens and young adults for the past 8 years. I help individuals manage depression, anxiety, PTSD and major life adjustments/transitions.
(614) 482-2566 View (614) 482-2566
Photo of Sara E Matlack, Clinical Social Work/Therapist in Westerville, OH
Sara E Matlack
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, MSW, LISW-S
Verified Verified
2 Endorsed
Westerville, OH 43081
I genuinely enjoy working with families and adults seeking help with Anxiety, Depression, Grief, Parent child interaction, trauma, Domestic Violence and Spirituality. I love helping clients meet their individual goals and improving their coping skills to decrease symptoms of depression, anxiety, anger, relationship issues and trauma.
I genuinely enjoy working with families and adults seeking help with Anxiety, Depression, Grief, Parent child interaction, trauma, Domestic Violence and Spirituality. I love helping clients meet their individual goals and improving their coping skills to decrease symptoms of depression, anxiety, anger, relationship issues and trauma.
(833) 579-7674 View (833) 579-7674
Photo of Marcie Foster, Clinical Social Work/Therapist in Westerville, OH
Marcie Foster
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, MSSA, LISW-S
Verified Verified
Westerville, OH 43081
Please email for more information or to schedule. Daytime availability Monday-Thursday. We are in a unique time; daily life might seem more challenging. Life brings moments of joy, unknowns, hurt, and disappointment. Perhaps it’s leading to anxiety, feeling overwhelmed with life and changes, worries, sleep issues, depression, or simply - heavy with life. Maybe it’s led to feelings of sadness or wanting a change. Pursuing therapeutic support can be a difficult, yet brave step. It’s beneficial to talk about your struggles, worries, or life changes, to help you through this season.
Please email for more information or to schedule. Daytime availability Monday-Thursday. We are in a unique time; daily life might seem more challenging. Life brings moments of joy, unknowns, hurt, and disappointment. Perhaps it’s leading to anxiety, feeling overwhelmed with life and changes, worries, sleep issues, depression, or simply - heavy with life. Maybe it’s led to feelings of sadness or wanting a change. Pursuing therapeutic support can be a difficult, yet brave step. It’s beneficial to talk about your struggles, worries, or life changes, to help you through this season.
(614) 682-8895 View (614) 682-8895
Photo of Rebecca Owens in Westerville, OH
Rebecca Owens
MA, LPCC
Verified Verified
1 Endorsed
Westerville, OH 43081
Not accepting new clients
Sometimes life presents challenges and circumstances that leave us feeling lost, hurt, frustrated, or overwhelmed. I would be privileged to walk alongside you and provide support as you navigate through the journey of recovering from your circumstances. We will work together to implement helpful coping skills to provide what you need to move forward with strength and confidence.
Sometimes life presents challenges and circumstances that leave us feeling lost, hurt, frustrated, or overwhelmed. I would be privileged to walk alongside you and provide support as you navigate through the journey of recovering from your circumstances. We will work together to implement helpful coping skills to provide what you need to move forward with strength and confidence.
(614) 763-6324 x713 View (614) 763-6324 x713
Photo of Taylor Matthews, Licensed Professional Counselor in Westerville, OH
Taylor Matthews
Licensed Professional Counselor, MA, LPC
Verified Verified
1 Endorsed
Westerville, OH 43081
If you are struggling with adjustment disorders, anxiety, depression, life transitions, spiritual issues, and grief/loss - I want to help. Children 11+ and adults are welcome! Especially, if you want to gain awareness around emotions/sensations and learn tools to love yourself better! Additionally, I am working towards developing skills in trauma work, child/adolescent therapy, and polyvagal theory.
If you are struggling with adjustment disorders, anxiety, depression, life transitions, spiritual issues, and grief/loss - I want to help. Children 11+ and adults are welcome! Especially, if you want to gain awareness around emotions/sensations and learn tools to love yourself better! Additionally, I am working towards developing skills in trauma work, child/adolescent therapy, and polyvagal theory.
(614) 482-1816 x5356 View (614) 482-1816 x5356
Photo of Leah Thornton, Licensed Professional Counselor in Westerville, OH
Leah Thornton
Licensed Professional Counselor, LPCC
Verified Verified
Westerville, OH 43081
Not accepting new clients
I specialize in treating various populations such as those with Anxiety disorders, Depressive disorders, Trauma/PTSD, Adjustment disorders and other life stressors. I also assist with social and self-esteem issues, phobias, and mild-moderate OCD symptoms. In addition, I have experience with childhood disorders including ADHD, ODD, and high-functioning Autism/Asperger's. I enjoy working with adults, adolescents, and children, and I use an individualized and collaborative approach to treatment.
I specialize in treating various populations such as those with Anxiety disorders, Depressive disorders, Trauma/PTSD, Adjustment disorders and other life stressors. I also assist with social and self-esteem issues, phobias, and mild-moderate OCD symptoms. In addition, I have experience with childhood disorders including ADHD, ODD, and high-functioning Autism/Asperger's. I enjoy working with adults, adolescents, and children, and I use an individualized and collaborative approach to treatment.
(614) 368-0206 View (614) 368-0206
Photo of Jackie Savel, Clinical Social Work/Therapist in Westerville, OH
Jackie Savel
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, MSW, LISW-S
Verified Verified
Westerville, OH 43081
Welcome! It takes energy to get here. Maybe life feels like too much or too little; over or underwhelming; Maybe you need more energy or more calm; maybe you don’t know where to start, whether you want to focus on the past or present; beginnings or endings. You might be rewriting an existing story or creating something entirely new... Wherever life finds you, you are welcome, secure and believed in our space. If you are struggling, you are human; you are not burdensome, oversensitive or inferior.
Welcome! It takes energy to get here. Maybe life feels like too much or too little; over or underwhelming; Maybe you need more energy or more calm; maybe you don’t know where to start, whether you want to focus on the past or present; beginnings or endings. You might be rewriting an existing story or creating something entirely new... Wherever life finds you, you are welcome, secure and believed in our space. If you are struggling, you are human; you are not burdensome, oversensitive or inferior.
(614) 350-2709 View (614) 350-2709
Photo of Lara K Palay, Clinical Social Work/Therapist in Westerville, OH
Lara K Palay
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, MSW, LISW-S
Verified Verified
Westerville, OH 43081
I am an experienced clinician, with 20 years in private practice. My work is an essential way for me to experience meaning and connection. I am honored to do it. My mode of practice is psychodynamic with eclectic influences including integrating eastern and western thought, mindfulness, compassion, and meaning. My personal style is warm, clear, and straightforward. I consider therapy to be a partnership with the client. My goal is to provide a safe space for you to gain insight, to create mindfulness and calm in you life, to build coping skills, and to make practical, manageable changes as needed.
I am an experienced clinician, with 20 years in private practice. My work is an essential way for me to experience meaning and connection. I am honored to do it. My mode of practice is psychodynamic with eclectic influences including integrating eastern and western thought, mindfulness, compassion, and meaning. My personal style is warm, clear, and straightforward. I consider therapy to be a partnership with the client. My goal is to provide a safe space for you to gain insight, to create mindfulness and calm in you life, to build coping skills, and to make practical, manageable changes as needed.
(614) 389-9146 View (614) 389-9146
Photo of Juliette R Savitscus, Psychologist in Westerville, OH
Juliette R Savitscus
Psychologist, PhD
Verified Verified
Westerville, OH 43081
Not accepting new clients
My practice is called Transformations Psychological Services. I decided on this name for my practice because I believe that good psychotherapy has power beyond just alleviating symptoms. Good psychotherapy can help you truly transform your life. I also chose this name because I work with individuals throughout the lifespan, helping people traverse the many transitions from childhood through adulthood. My work is eclectic but based in a developmental understanding of human growth. In my practice, I work with children, families, and adults. I welcome individuals from a variety of backgrounds with a diversity of concerns.
My practice is called Transformations Psychological Services. I decided on this name for my practice because I believe that good psychotherapy has power beyond just alleviating symptoms. Good psychotherapy can help you truly transform your life. I also chose this name because I work with individuals throughout the lifespan, helping people traverse the many transitions from childhood through adulthood. My work is eclectic but based in a developmental understanding of human growth. In my practice, I work with children, families, and adults. I welcome individuals from a variety of backgrounds with a diversity of concerns.
(380) 207-9472 View (380) 207-9472
Photo of Sophie Hans, Clinical Social Work/Therapist in Westerville, OH
Sophie Hans
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, LSW
Verified Verified
Westerville, OH 43081
My ideal client is someone who comes to therapy in a time of need. They might be experiencing anxiety due to life changes and transitions or they might be experiencing symptoms of anxiety for the first time and be concerned as to where the anxiety came from. The client might be processing loss or grief from a loved one or past friendships and or relationships. My ideal client will have needs such as needing to identify coping skills to get through life stressors, assistance with reaching goals. As a therapist I would be able to provide the client with a objective perspective to bounce their ideas and situations off of.
My ideal client is someone who comes to therapy in a time of need. They might be experiencing anxiety due to life changes and transitions or they might be experiencing symptoms of anxiety for the first time and be concerned as to where the anxiety came from. The client might be processing loss or grief from a loved one or past friendships and or relationships. My ideal client will have needs such as needing to identify coping skills to get through life stressors, assistance with reaching goals. As a therapist I would be able to provide the client with a objective perspective to bounce their ideas and situations off of.
(380) 201-9945 View (380) 201-9945
Photo of Ellen Papadeas, Licensed Professional Clinical Counselor in Westerville, OH
Ellen Papadeas
Licensed Professional Clinical Counselor, LPCC
Verified Verified
Westerville, OH 43082
Ellen Papadeas is a Licensed Professional Clinical Counselor through the state of Ohio, as well as a Licensed Mental Health Counselor through the state of Massachusetts. She earned her B.A. in English Literature from Davidson College and her Master's of Clinical Mental Health Counseling from Lesley University. After a career in media production, Ellen turned to serve the realm of public mental health, through In Home Family Therapy and individual counseling for children and adults. She also provided social/emotional wellness support in a therapeutic elementary school.
Ellen Papadeas is a Licensed Professional Clinical Counselor through the state of Ohio, as well as a Licensed Mental Health Counselor through the state of Massachusetts. She earned her B.A. in English Literature from Davidson College and her Master's of Clinical Mental Health Counseling from Lesley University. After a career in media production, Ellen turned to serve the realm of public mental health, through In Home Family Therapy and individual counseling for children and adults. She also provided social/emotional wellness support in a therapeutic elementary school.
(380) 333-6794 View (380) 333-6794
Photo of Marti Gottfried, Counselor in Westerville, OH
Marti Gottfried
Counselor, MSEd, PCC
Verified Verified
Westerville, OH 43082  (Online Only)
As Emerson once said, "Life is a journey not a destination". And I believe we all face challenges on our journey. I help people who are struggling with those challenges by providing a safe, confidential, and supportive environment. I have over 10 years experience working with individuals, adolescents and families with a focus on helping clients grow, heal, and transform. We join together to build on strengths rather than focus on weaknesses. I provide practical feed-back, problem solving, and coping skills for issues such as, self-esteem, depression, anxiety, relationship issues, parenting, divorce, life transitions, communication, and grief and loss.
As Emerson once said, "Life is a journey not a destination". And I believe we all face challenges on our journey. I help people who are struggling with those challenges by providing a safe, confidential, and supportive environment. I have over 10 years experience working with individuals, adolescents and families with a focus on helping clients grow, heal, and transform. We join together to build on strengths rather than focus on weaknesses. I provide practical feed-back, problem solving, and coping skills for issues such as, self-esteem, depression, anxiety, relationship issues, parenting, divorce, life transitions, communication, and grief and loss.
(614) 212-5199 View (614) 212-5199
Photo of Joel T Hardin, Counselor in Westerville, OH
Joel T Hardin
Counselor, MA, LPCC-S, LICDC, NCC
Verified Verified
2 Endorsed
Westerville, OH 43082
Even though counseling often focuses on relieving distress, I view counseling as a way of helping people to flourish and to reach their goals. I work with individuals, couples, families, and adolescents. I am a Supervising Licensed Professional Clinical Counselor (LPCC-S), National Certified Counselor (NCC), and Licensed Independent Chemical Dependency Counselor (LICDC). I use many approaches, including CBT, EMDR and Mindfulness. My past experience includes work at Maryhaven and Dublin Springs Hospital. I currently serve as the Director of Pathways Counseling Center in Westerville, where I have been in practice since 2013.
Even though counseling often focuses on relieving distress, I view counseling as a way of helping people to flourish and to reach their goals. I work with individuals, couples, families, and adolescents. I am a Supervising Licensed Professional Clinical Counselor (LPCC-S), National Certified Counselor (NCC), and Licensed Independent Chemical Dependency Counselor (LICDC). I use many approaches, including CBT, EMDR and Mindfulness. My past experience includes work at Maryhaven and Dublin Springs Hospital. I currently serve as the Director of Pathways Counseling Center in Westerville, where I have been in practice since 2013.
(614) 980-0460 View (614) 980-0460
Photo of Amy Weller, Licensed Professional Counselor in Westerville, OH
Amy Weller
Licensed Professional Counselor, MA , LPC
Verified Verified
Westerville, OH 43081
I am passionate about trauma, depression, anxiety, LGBQT concerns, personality disorders, and neurodivergence. An ideal client is an individual who has a growth mindset and explores their thoughts and feelings and how they impact their behavior. They may not understand how those thoughts derived from past experiences, but they are willing to open old wounds given the right tools. They feel safe and secure and want to heal through hard work and determination.
I am passionate about trauma, depression, anxiety, LGBQT concerns, personality disorders, and neurodivergence. An ideal client is an individual who has a growth mindset and explores their thoughts and feelings and how they impact their behavior. They may not understand how those thoughts derived from past experiences, but they are willing to open old wounds given the right tools. They feel safe and secure and want to heal through hard work and determination.
(380) 600-8835 View (380) 600-8835
Photo of Victoria Borsukevich, Clinical Social Work/Therapist in Westerville, OH
Victoria Borsukevich
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, LISW-S
Verified Verified
Westerville, OH 43082  (Online Only)
I believe in an active and client-led approach to therapy, where I can help you build the tools and strengths within yourself to reach your goals. I feel that effective treatment begins with a genuine connection between us and I will strive to make you feel heard and understood. In my practice, I utilize a personalized approach to each client's mental health needs and goals.
I believe in an active and client-led approach to therapy, where I can help you build the tools and strengths within yourself to reach your goals. I feel that effective treatment begins with a genuine connection between us and I will strive to make you feel heard and understood. In my practice, I utilize a personalized approach to each client's mental health needs and goals.
(614) 683-2210 View (614) 683-2210

How does your Therapist compare?

Number of Therapists in Westerville, OH

300+

Average cost per session

$125

Therapists in Westerville, OH who prioritize treating:

90% Anxiety
88% Depression
72% Relationship Issues
72% Trauma and PTSD
68% Self Esteem
66% Grief
65% Stress

Average years in practice

10 Years

Top 3 insurances accepted

84% Aetna
75% Optum
69% Medical Mutual

How Therapists in Westerville, OH see their clients

83% In Person and Online
17% Online Only

Gender breakdown

77% Female
22% Male
1% Non-Binary
FAQs - About Therapy and Counseling

How can I find a therapist in Westerville?

Search for nearby therapists or counselors by inputting your city, town, or suburb; or zip code; or a provider’s name into the search bar. From there, you can filter providers by the issues they treat, cost, insurance, gender, and other factors to find providers who are well-suited to your needs. To navigate between locations within the same country, enter a new city or zip code into the search bar.

Learn more about how to find a therapist

Is everyone in the Psychology Today Therapy Directory a licensed therapist?

The Psychology Today directory lists providers who offer legitimate mental health services to the public, including psychologists, psychiatrists, social workers, and counselors.

Many have been licensed by the country or state where they practice; providers whose license or primary credential has been verified by Psychology Today are signified by a “Verified” symbol. Some clinicians or organizations provide services for which their state or country does not offer licenses, such as pastoral counseling. They may be selectively included without the “Verified” seal.

What’s the difference between a psychologist, a therapist, and a counselor?

Therapists, psychologists, and counselors are all licensed mental health professionals. In the US, psychologists have earned a doctoral degree. The terms “therapist” and “counselor” are used somewhat interchangeably, but generally therapists offer longer-term, mental health care, while counselors offer shorter-term care that may focus on one domain, such as marriage, career, or academic challenges.

Clients should consider factors such as insurance coverage and their primary reason(s) for seeking therapy to determine the type of professional best suited to their needs. Someone struggling with mental health challenges such as depression or anxiety, for example, may wish to seek out a clinical psychologist or therapist, while someone navigating career obstacles or marital upheaval may benefit from seeing a counselor who can offer short-term, targeted support.

What type of therapy is right for me?

The type of therapy best suited to a particular individual depends on several factors, including their primary reason for seeking therapy, their preferred timeline (some therapy types last for a set number of sessions, while others are open-ended), and their personality and preferences—some may prefer a more structured approach. For many individuals, multiple types of therapy could provide a good fit.

How much does therapy cost?

The cost of therapy depends on a number of variables, including location and the therapist’s experience and training. On average, a therapy session in the United States could cost between $100 and $200 or more. If you have insurance, the expense of mental health care is typically lower, but it varies based on your insurance plan details and whether you choose an in-network or out-of-network mental healthcare provider.

What are more affordable or low cost therapy solutions?

Many therapists offer sliding scale payments, usually on a limited number of slots, which consists in an agreement between the therapist and a client to pay a reduced rate. Therapists who provide such arrangements often consider the client's income or ability to pay, but the extent of the discount is ultimately at the therapist's discretion. Furthermore, while group therapy may have different goals and benefits compared to individual therapy, it can be a more affordable solution to address certain types of issues.

Is online therapy cheaper than in-person therapy?

Many therapists charge the same amount for online therapy as they do for in-person therapy—though clients may still find this cost-effective if it cuts down on their transportation costs. Health insurance plans often offer equivalent coverage for online and in-person therapy; indeed, in many places, they are legally required to do so. Text-based or on-demand therapy apps may be cheaper than traditional one-on-one psychotherapy; however, the practice may be less effective and is not likely to be covered by insurance.

Is online therapy a good option?

Therapy conducted online can be just as effective as in-person therapy, as long as there is a strong alliance between the client and the therapist. To find a therapist who provides telehealth services to clients in your area, click “Online Therapy” on the directory homepage and search by your city or town or your zip code.

Are therapy sessions confidential?

Confidentiality is a crucial part of the therapeutic relationship. Therapists in the United States are bound by the regulations set out by the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA), which aims to protect sensitive health information. With very few exceptions, a therapist will only discuss their client with others when the client has given their written permission. The instances in which a therapist would be required to disclose personal information are: if a client poses a danger to themselves or others, if the therapist suspects the abuse of a child or an elderly or otherwise dependent adult, or if they are legally forced to by court order. These exceptions to the confidentiality agreement are usually discussed with a client before their first session.