Therapists in Ferndale, MI

Photo of Jacob Chmara, Limited Licensed Psychologist in Ferndale, MI
Jacob Chmara
Limited Licensed Psychologist, MA, LLP
Verified Verified
1 Endorsed
Ferndale, MI 48220
I see therapy as a road trip: you’re in the driver’s seat, and I’m in the passenger’s seat. You decide where you want to go, and I’ll help you get there. Oftentimes the obstacles along the journey become overwhelming, but you shouldn’t have to navigate them alone. Whether you’re experiencing depression, anxiety, low self-esteem, relationship issues, work-related stress, behavioral issues, or just feeling stuck, I’m here to help. I treat each client as a unique individual with unconditional positive regard, and work to empower and support you in making the changes that you want to see.
I see therapy as a road trip: you’re in the driver’s seat, and I’m in the passenger’s seat. You decide where you want to go, and I’ll help you get there. Oftentimes the obstacles along the journey become overwhelming, but you shouldn’t have to navigate them alone. Whether you’re experiencing depression, anxiety, low self-esteem, relationship issues, work-related stress, behavioral issues, or just feeling stuck, I’m here to help. I treat each client as a unique individual with unconditional positive regard, and work to empower and support you in making the changes that you want to see.
(248) 514-4955 View (248) 514-4955
Photo of Mariena Celene Jones, Clinical Social Work/Therapist in Ferndale, MI
Mariena Celene Jones
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, LLMSW
Verified Verified
1 Endorsed
Ferndale, MI 48220
Waitlist for new clients
When life feels overwhelming, hard to navigate, or burdensome, therapy can offer a consistent and safe environment of support. I believe in integrating all aspects of the individual into the therapeutic experience to view challenges through a holistic approach. You are a full spectrum person, and by incorporating the body, spirit, and mind in therapy, we can work together to develop an improved quality of life and achieve your goals. As your therapist it is important to me to develop a collaborative and trusting relationship with you, serving as the foundation for growth. I believe in therapy as a support to feel confident and free.
When life feels overwhelming, hard to navigate, or burdensome, therapy can offer a consistent and safe environment of support. I believe in integrating all aspects of the individual into the therapeutic experience to view challenges through a holistic approach. You are a full spectrum person, and by incorporating the body, spirit, and mind in therapy, we can work together to develop an improved quality of life and achieve your goals. As your therapist it is important to me to develop a collaborative and trusting relationship with you, serving as the foundation for growth. I believe in therapy as a support to feel confident and free.
(248) 846-1628 View (248) 846-1628
Photo of Caitie Fey, Licensed Professional Counselor in Ferndale, MI
Caitie Fey
Licensed Professional Counselor, LPC, CCTP, RYT
Verified Verified
6 Endorsed
Ferndale, MI 48220
I enjoy working with individuals and couples who are ready for change and come to therapy for guidance, support, and coping strategies to help them on their way. I especially love to work with people who want to understand the mind-body connection and are open to integrative methods of healing. The therapeutic relationship can be magical! In the safety of this relationship, you can start to tap into their own inner wisdom and knowledge. Witnessing and learning from this transformation is my favorite part of being a therapist.
I enjoy working with individuals and couples who are ready for change and come to therapy for guidance, support, and coping strategies to help them on their way. I especially love to work with people who want to understand the mind-body connection and are open to integrative methods of healing. The therapeutic relationship can be magical! In the safety of this relationship, you can start to tap into their own inner wisdom and knowledge. Witnessing and learning from this transformation is my favorite part of being a therapist.
(248) 780-7501 View (248) 780-7501
Photo of Rachel Quell, Counselor in Ferndale, MI
Rachel Quell
Counselor, MA, LLC, NCC
Verified Verified
Ferndale, MI 48220
You are wanting to make lasting change, but don't know where to start. Daily life may feel like an uphill battle and your emotions may feel big and isolating. You believe your past experiences may offer clarity. Through the tools used in therapy, your story begins to include healing. You are now the creator of a new journey. One filled with reflection, insight, and the boundaries you deserve.
You are wanting to make lasting change, but don't know where to start. Daily life may feel like an uphill battle and your emotions may feel big and isolating. You believe your past experiences may offer clarity. Through the tools used in therapy, your story begins to include healing. You are now the creator of a new journey. One filled with reflection, insight, and the boundaries you deserve.
(248) 617-4522 View (248) 617-4522
Photo of Kirsti J Reeve, Counselor in Ferndale, MI
Kirsti J Reeve
Counselor, MA, LPC, NCC, CAADC
Verified Verified
3 Endorsed
Ferndale, MI 48220
Waitlist for new clients
Everyone has times in their lives when stress seems overwhelming, when ways that we use to cope just aren't working anymore, or are even making the situation worse. Even more so coming out of a pandemic. You might be sad, anxious, hurting yourself or isolating and want to change. Counseling can help you to move forward at times when you feel stuck, can help you to develop new coping skills and tools to manage life's challenges, and rediscover the strength inside you. I provide an accepting, non-judgmental, confidential environment, and a safe place to explore your thoughts and feelings with a caring, compassionate listener.
Everyone has times in their lives when stress seems overwhelming, when ways that we use to cope just aren't working anymore, or are even making the situation worse. Even more so coming out of a pandemic. You might be sad, anxious, hurting yourself or isolating and want to change. Counseling can help you to move forward at times when you feel stuck, can help you to develop new coping skills and tools to manage life's challenges, and rediscover the strength inside you. I provide an accepting, non-judgmental, confidential environment, and a safe place to explore your thoughts and feelings with a caring, compassionate listener.
(248) 796-0615 View (248) 796-0615
Photo of Esti Weiss, Counselor in Ferndale, MI
Esti Weiss
Counselor, LLPC
Verified Verified
3 Endorsed
Ferndale, MI 48220
Being human and functioning is hard; functioning while dragging the heavy load of trauma can feel impossible. Feeling constantly overwhelmed, angry, fearful, and sad are only a few of the devastating effects that trauma often leaves in its wake. Although the cards that you (and/or your loved ones) have been dealt may feel unfair or unmanageable, you don’t have to go at it solo. Together, we will explore new ways to develop and trust your intuition, tune into your body, and create balance. I specialize in supporting people who have experienced trauma and complex trauma (including attachment wounds, parental abuse, and neglect).
Being human and functioning is hard; functioning while dragging the heavy load of trauma can feel impossible. Feeling constantly overwhelmed, angry, fearful, and sad are only a few of the devastating effects that trauma often leaves in its wake. Although the cards that you (and/or your loved ones) have been dealt may feel unfair or unmanageable, you don’t have to go at it solo. Together, we will explore new ways to develop and trust your intuition, tune into your body, and create balance. I specialize in supporting people who have experienced trauma and complex trauma (including attachment wounds, parental abuse, and neglect).
(248) 694-8654 View (248) 694-8654
Photo of Ann Smith, Psychologist in Ferndale, MI
Ann Smith
Psychologist, PsyD, LP
Verified Verified
Ferndale, MI 48220
Not accepting new clients
I approach people with an understanding that their storyline is unique and often difficult to share with another. Indeed, sometimes there are no words for our deepest pains. I aim to create a space that supports self-exploration and pathways for desired change, even in challenging circumstances. While my broad scope of clinical and teaching experiences provide me with creative ways of helping others, I value the collaborative nature of the therapeutic process. Together we seek understanding of the pain, fear, or unhappiness, making changes that will shift life toward security, joy, and fulfillment.
I approach people with an understanding that their storyline is unique and often difficult to share with another. Indeed, sometimes there are no words for our deepest pains. I aim to create a space that supports self-exploration and pathways for desired change, even in challenging circumstances. While my broad scope of clinical and teaching experiences provide me with creative ways of helping others, I value the collaborative nature of the therapeutic process. Together we seek understanding of the pain, fear, or unhappiness, making changes that will shift life toward security, joy, and fulfillment.
(248) 927-1303 View (248) 927-1303
Photo of Restoration U, Licensed Professional Counselor in Ferndale, MI
Restoration U
Licensed Professional Counselor, LPC
Verified Verified
Ferndale, MI 48220
Sometimes you may become overwhelmed due to changes in routine or major events such as a new school, grades, finances, becoming a new parent, losing a loved one, divorce, or conflict in relationships. These life events may lead to anxiety, low self esteem, lack of motivation, and loss of direction. These struggles appear in different ways for each person and lasts for varying amounts of time. However, we can not always recover on our own due to depression, anxiety, past trauma, or other underlying influence. I am a therapist (LPC), here to help you on your journey to healing and becoming your best self.
Sometimes you may become overwhelmed due to changes in routine or major events such as a new school, grades, finances, becoming a new parent, losing a loved one, divorce, or conflict in relationships. These life events may lead to anxiety, low self esteem, lack of motivation, and loss of direction. These struggles appear in different ways for each person and lasts for varying amounts of time. However, we can not always recover on our own due to depression, anxiety, past trauma, or other underlying influence. I am a therapist (LPC), here to help you on your journey to healing and becoming your best self.
(248) 970-1417 View (248) 970-1417
Photo of Kimberly Tkaczyk, Clinical Social Work/Therapist in Ferndale, MI
Kimberly Tkaczyk
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, MSW, BS
Verified Verified
1 Endorsed
Ferndale, MI 48220  (Online Only)
Building trust and connection with my clients is a vital part of my practice. I am diligent about exploring goal progress, satisfaction levels and potential barriers, because I know that mental health and well-being does not happen in a vacuum. The only way therapy and possible medications can do their job is through a wholistic approach that is focused on achieving lasting results.
Building trust and connection with my clients is a vital part of my practice. I am diligent about exploring goal progress, satisfaction levels and potential barriers, because I know that mental health and well-being does not happen in a vacuum. The only way therapy and possible medications can do their job is through a wholistic approach that is focused on achieving lasting results.
(248) 453-6562 View (248) 453-6562
Photo of Spencer Genrich, Clinical Social Work/Therapist in Ferndale, MI
Spencer Genrich
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, LLMSW
Verified Verified
Ferndale, MI 48220
Not accepting new clients
Whether you are exploring your sexual/gender identity, have a specific relationship concern, or are going through a rough patch and not sure where to start, I would love to extend an invite to have you in my chair. Clients that typically seek me out may be LGBTQ+ identifying, looking to improve their sexual health, want to develop healthier romantic and/or peer relationships, or are working through family conflict. Whether you come to the space as an individual or with a partner(s), you can expect me to approach our work through a social justice lens where we can continue to grow together.
Whether you are exploring your sexual/gender identity, have a specific relationship concern, or are going through a rough patch and not sure where to start, I would love to extend an invite to have you in my chair. Clients that typically seek me out may be LGBTQ+ identifying, looking to improve their sexual health, want to develop healthier romantic and/or peer relationships, or are working through family conflict. Whether you come to the space as an individual or with a partner(s), you can expect me to approach our work through a social justice lens where we can continue to grow together.
(248) 653-1581 View (248) 653-1581
Photo of Stephanie Joanne Leonetti, Clinical Social Work/Therapist in Ferndale, MI
Stephanie Joanne Leonetti
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, LMSW
Verified Verified
Ferndale, MI 48220
As humans have needs, goals, and of course tricky events or feelings to navigate! What do you want from life, and why? We can explore this together and move towards living life feeling a sense of control, self-actualization, and peace.
As humans have needs, goals, and of course tricky events or feelings to navigate! What do you want from life, and why? We can explore this together and move towards living life feeling a sense of control, self-actualization, and peace.
(248) 920-9295 View (248) 920-9295
Photo of Elise A DuBois, Counselor in Ferndale, MI
Elise A DuBois
Counselor, MA, LPC
Verified Verified
Ferndale, MI 48220
Please reach out to me if you're interested in Women in Recovery Group. The group is ongoing and rolling admission... In individual and/or group work we will work together and I will support you as you learn about yourself and how to authentically relate to and cope with the world we live in. There are times when life changes and transitions can leave you feeling lonely, anxious and just confused. As a therapist, I am passionate about encouraging you through these times.
Please reach out to me if you're interested in Women in Recovery Group. The group is ongoing and rolling admission... In individual and/or group work we will work together and I will support you as you learn about yourself and how to authentically relate to and cope with the world we live in. There are times when life changes and transitions can leave you feeling lonely, anxious and just confused. As a therapist, I am passionate about encouraging you through these times.
(248) 290-6467 View (248) 290-6467
Photo of Paul Wierzbicki, Clinical Social Work/Therapist in Ferndale, MI
Paul Wierzbicki
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, LLMSW
Verified Verified
2 Endorsed
Ferndale, MI 48220  (Online Only)
Queer, here, and ready to help you heal! If you're looking for someone to help you identify your strengths, reach a new level of insight about you and who you want to become, plus meet you where you're at; I'm here for you. Problems that I can help with include self-esteem building, anxiety, depression, ADHD, stress management, anger management, grief and loss, and adjustments and acceptance of major events, as well as other problems you may be struggling with. I am trained in cognitive behavior therapy (CBT). I can help you identify your thoughts and help provide support forming balanced and adaptive thinking
Queer, here, and ready to help you heal! If you're looking for someone to help you identify your strengths, reach a new level of insight about you and who you want to become, plus meet you where you're at; I'm here for you. Problems that I can help with include self-esteem building, anxiety, depression, ADHD, stress management, anger management, grief and loss, and adjustments and acceptance of major events, as well as other problems you may be struggling with. I am trained in cognitive behavior therapy (CBT). I can help you identify your thoughts and help provide support forming balanced and adaptive thinking
(248) 422-1716 View (248) 422-1716
Photo of Dr. Kimberly Sabra, Limited Licensed Psychologist in Ferndale, MI
Dr. Kimberly Sabra
Limited Licensed Psychologist, PsyD, LLP
Verified Verified
Ferndale, MI 48220  (Online Only)
Hope is not lost. It’s time to process and heal wounds. Life’s challenges can try to disrupt our wellbeing. Learing to think differently helps us live effectively. Gaining insight through the exploration of our thoughts, feelings, emotions, and behaviors assists with self discovery as well as building effective approaches to addressing life’s challenges and concerns. I have experience working with various populations in addressing depression, anxiety, life transitions, trauma, grief and loss, low self-esteem, and other issues.
Hope is not lost. It’s time to process and heal wounds. Life’s challenges can try to disrupt our wellbeing. Learing to think differently helps us live effectively. Gaining insight through the exploration of our thoughts, feelings, emotions, and behaviors assists with self discovery as well as building effective approaches to addressing life’s challenges and concerns. I have experience working with various populations in addressing depression, anxiety, life transitions, trauma, grief and loss, low self-esteem, and other issues.
(248) 218-9805 View (248) 218-9805
Photo of Meredith Sheatzley, Clinical Social Work/Therapist in Ferndale, MI
Meredith Sheatzley
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, LLMSW
Verified Verified
1 Endorsed
Ferndale, MI 48220
Hi! My name is Meredith Sheatzley and I am a Licensed Clinical Social Worker in the state of Michigan. My goal is to create a safe, open and judgement free environment for you and your needs. I utilize strength-based, person centered care, as well as CBT to support you in achieving your goals.
Hi! My name is Meredith Sheatzley and I am a Licensed Clinical Social Worker in the state of Michigan. My goal is to create a safe, open and judgement free environment for you and your needs. I utilize strength-based, person centered care, as well as CBT to support you in achieving your goals.
View
Photo of Alicia Rose, Clinical Social Work/Therapist in Ferndale, MI
Alicia Rose
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, LMSW
Verified Verified
Ferndale, MI 48220  (Online Only)
Feeling overwhelmed or stuck? I'm here! As a therapist, I focus on your unique needs with empathy. You're not just a client, you're an individual with a story. I make sessions feel like supportive chats, not clinical visits. Together, we'll navigate challenges and uncover strengths. Whether it's anxiety, relationships, trauma, or personal growth, I'm here to help. Let's journey together toward positive change!
Feeling overwhelmed or stuck? I'm here! As a therapist, I focus on your unique needs with empathy. You're not just a client, you're an individual with a story. I make sessions feel like supportive chats, not clinical visits. Together, we'll navigate challenges and uncover strengths. Whether it's anxiety, relationships, trauma, or personal growth, I'm here to help. Let's journey together toward positive change!
(248) 450-0097 View (248) 450-0097
Photo of Sarah Feeley, Clinical Social Work/Therapist in Ferndale, MI
Sarah Feeley
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, LMSW
Verified Verified
Ferndale, MI 48220
Not accepting new clients
Congratulations on making it this far! You have already taken the first steps to make a change, and I’m proud of you. My intent as your therapist is to provide a nonjudgemental and optimistic safe space. The plan is to work together on identifying and addressing your mental health concerns. I will meet you where you are at in your journey, and build from there. Life can be overwhelmingly difficult, and can sometimes even feel impossible to manage. We will work together to navigate these feelings, increase coping skills, and reduce symptoms utilizing a person-centered, and strengths-based perspective.
Congratulations on making it this far! You have already taken the first steps to make a change, and I’m proud of you. My intent as your therapist is to provide a nonjudgemental and optimistic safe space. The plan is to work together on identifying and addressing your mental health concerns. I will meet you where you are at in your journey, and build from there. Life can be overwhelmingly difficult, and can sometimes even feel impossible to manage. We will work together to navigate these feelings, increase coping skills, and reduce symptoms utilizing a person-centered, and strengths-based perspective.
(248) 617-2924 View (248) 617-2924
Photo of Mikki Hill, Clinical Social Work/Therapist in Ferndale, MI
Mikki Hill
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, LMSW
Verified Verified
1 Endorsed
Ferndale, MI 48220
Not accepting new clients
Life is full of transitions. Some are exciting. Some are scary. Some are both and more all rolled into one. It's important to have the best support you can for each set of transitions. I am here to support you while contemplating growing your family, during your pregnancy and the years to follow as you embark on your parenting journey. We all come to the table with our own history of experiences and being parented. This is the time many of us reflect on what we have experienced and the type of parent we want to be.
Life is full of transitions. Some are exciting. Some are scary. Some are both and more all rolled into one. It's important to have the best support you can for each set of transitions. I am here to support you while contemplating growing your family, during your pregnancy and the years to follow as you embark on your parenting journey. We all come to the table with our own history of experiences and being parented. This is the time many of us reflect on what we have experienced and the type of parent we want to be.
(248) 600-5435 View (248) 600-5435
Photo of Nina Goebel, Licensed Professional Counselor in Ferndale, MI
Nina Goebel
Licensed Professional Counselor, MA, LPC, ATR-P
Verified Verified
1 Endorsed
Ferndale, MI 48220
Waitlist for new clients
Life has many challenges and sometimes they seem overwhelming. Whether you are going through a life transition, struggling with relationship issues, feeling stuck or experiencing other difficult emotions, you and I will work as a team to address your challenges. As a therapist, my goal is to listen to your needs and cultivate a constructive therapeutic relationship of equals. In a non-judgmental and supportive environment, we will develop tools that help you move forward and let you take action toward positive change. I hope to provide a safe space where you feel comfortable sharing your thoughts and feelings.
Life has many challenges and sometimes they seem overwhelming. Whether you are going through a life transition, struggling with relationship issues, feeling stuck or experiencing other difficult emotions, you and I will work as a team to address your challenges. As a therapist, my goal is to listen to your needs and cultivate a constructive therapeutic relationship of equals. In a non-judgmental and supportive environment, we will develop tools that help you move forward and let you take action toward positive change. I hope to provide a safe space where you feel comfortable sharing your thoughts and feelings.
(248) 290-8143 View (248) 290-8143
Photo of Teresa M. Turner, Psychologist in Ferndale, MI
Teresa M. Turner
Psychologist, PsyD, LP
Verified Verified
2 Endorsed
Ferndale, MI 48220  (Online Only)
Not accepting new clients
Opening up to discuss your emotions and difficulties can be an overwhelming feeling. In my office, I pride myself on being trustworthy and emphatic while providing a warm, safe, and accepting environment. As a psychologist, my main objective is to help you make the necessary changes in your life that will allow you to look forward to the future with confidence.
Opening up to discuss your emotions and difficulties can be an overwhelming feeling. In my office, I pride myself on being trustworthy and emphatic while providing a warm, safe, and accepting environment. As a psychologist, my main objective is to help you make the necessary changes in your life that will allow you to look forward to the future with confidence.
(248) 923-4309 View (248) 923-4309

How does your Therapist compare?

Number of Therapists in Ferndale, MI

300+

Average cost per session

$150

Therapists in Ferndale, MI who prioritize treating:

94% Anxiety
92% Depression
84% Self Esteem
81% Relationship Issues
78% Trauma and PTSD
78% Stress
73% Coping Skills

Average years in practice

9 Years

Top 3 insurances accepted

94% BlueCross and BlueShield
63% Blue Care Network
60% Aetna

How Therapists in Ferndale, MI see their clients

66% In Person and Online
34% Online Only

Gender breakdown

77% Female
18% Male
5% Non-Binary
FAQs - About Therapy and Counseling

How can I find a therapist in Ferndale?

Search for nearby therapists or counselors by inputting your city, town, or suburb; or zip code; or a provider’s name into the search bar. From there, you can filter providers by the issues they treat, cost, insurance, gender, and other factors to find providers who are well-suited to your needs. To navigate between locations within the same country, enter a new city or zip code into the search bar.

Learn more about how to find a therapist

Is everyone in the Psychology Today Therapy Directory a licensed therapist?

The Psychology Today directory lists providers who offer legitimate mental health services to the public, including psychologists, psychiatrists, social workers, and counselors.

Many have been licensed by the country or state where they practice; providers whose license or primary credential has been verified by Psychology Today are signified by a “Verified” symbol. Some clinicians or organizations provide services for which their state or country does not offer licenses, such as pastoral counseling. They may be selectively included without the “Verified” seal.

What’s the difference between a psychologist, a therapist, and a counselor?

Therapists, psychologists, and counselors are all licensed mental health professionals. In the US, psychologists have earned a doctoral degree. The terms “therapist” and “counselor” are used somewhat interchangeably, but generally therapists offer longer-term, mental health care, while counselors offer shorter-term care that may focus on one domain, such as marriage, career, or academic challenges.

Clients should consider factors such as insurance coverage and their primary reason(s) for seeking therapy to determine the type of professional best suited to their needs. Someone struggling with mental health challenges such as depression or anxiety, for example, may wish to seek out a clinical psychologist or therapist, while someone navigating career obstacles or marital upheaval may benefit from seeing a counselor who can offer short-term, targeted support.

What type of therapy is right for me?

The type of therapy best suited to a particular individual depends on several factors, including their primary reason for seeking therapy, their preferred timeline (some therapy types last for a set number of sessions, while others are open-ended), and their personality and preferences—some may prefer a more structured approach. For many individuals, multiple types of therapy could provide a good fit.

How much does therapy cost?

The cost of therapy depends on a number of variables, including location and the therapist’s experience and training. On average, a therapy session in the United States could cost between $100 and $200 or more. If you have insurance, the expense of mental health care is typically lower, but it varies based on your insurance plan details and whether you choose an in-network or out-of-network mental healthcare provider.

What are more affordable or low cost therapy solutions?

Many therapists offer sliding scale payments, usually on a limited number of slots, which consists in an agreement between the therapist and a client to pay a reduced rate. Therapists who provide such arrangements often consider the client's income or ability to pay, but the extent of the discount is ultimately at the therapist's discretion. Furthermore, while group therapy may have different goals and benefits compared to individual therapy, it can be a more affordable solution to address certain types of issues.

Is online therapy cheaper than in-person therapy?

Many therapists charge the same amount for online therapy as they do for in-person therapy—though clients may still find this cost-effective if it cuts down on their transportation costs. Health insurance plans often offer equivalent coverage for online and in-person therapy; indeed, in many places, they are legally required to do so. Text-based or on-demand therapy apps may be cheaper than traditional one-on-one psychotherapy; however, the practice may be less effective and is not likely to be covered by insurance.

Is online therapy a good option?

Therapy conducted online can be just as effective as in-person therapy, as long as there is a strong alliance between the client and the therapist. To find a therapist who provides telehealth services to clients in your area, click “Online Therapy” on the directory homepage and search by your city or town or your zip code.

Are therapy sessions confidential?

Confidentiality is a crucial part of the therapeutic relationship. Therapists in the United States are bound by the regulations set out by the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA), which aims to protect sensitive health information. With very few exceptions, a therapist will only discuss their client with others when the client has given their written permission. The instances in which a therapist would be required to disclose personal information are: if a client poses a danger to themselves or others, if the therapist suspects the abuse of a child or an elderly or otherwise dependent adult, or if they are legally forced to by court order. These exceptions to the confidentiality agreement are usually discussed with a client before their first session.