Therapists in Philadelphia, PA

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Photo of Abigail (Abby) Hawkins, Clinical Social Work/Therapist in Philadelphia, PA
Abigail (Abby) Hawkins
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, MSW, LCSW
Verified Verified
Philadelphia, PA 19119  (Online Only)
Hi, I'm glad you found my page. When I meet with someone who has been seeking therapy, they've often had a hard time feeling connected to others or they struggle to be in the moment. Others deal with low self-worth, negative beliefs about themselves, or feeling they cannot get where they want to be in life. In our therapeutic work, I want to help you develop a deeper understanding of yourself and your strengths, feel empowered to manage emotions when life feels overwhelming, and build more fulfilling relationships with yourself and others. I take a warm and genuine approach to getting to know you as an individual and what helps you.
Hi, I'm glad you found my page. When I meet with someone who has been seeking therapy, they've often had a hard time feeling connected to others or they struggle to be in the moment. Others deal with low self-worth, negative beliefs about themselves, or feeling they cannot get where they want to be in life. In our therapeutic work, I want to help you develop a deeper understanding of yourself and your strengths, feel empowered to manage emotions when life feels overwhelming, and build more fulfilling relationships with yourself and others. I take a warm and genuine approach to getting to know you as an individual and what helps you.
(610) 572-3756 View (610) 572-3756
Dr. Laura Windham (Chrysalis)
Psychologist, PsyD, LCSW
Verified Verified
3 Endorsed
Philadelphia, PA 19103
Chrysalis invites professional women interested in understanding themselves better to improve their relationships, change unhealthy patterns and ultimately discover their highest potential. Having worked primarily with professional and high profile women for the over 20 years, my expertise includes most any work or life struggle which women face. I tend to be quite casual in my approach and I am also very active and directive with my patients.
Chrysalis invites professional women interested in understanding themselves better to improve their relationships, change unhealthy patterns and ultimately discover their highest potential. Having worked primarily with professional and high profile women for the over 20 years, my expertise includes most any work or life struggle which women face. I tend to be quite casual in my approach and I am also very active and directive with my patients.
(267) 362-9980 View (267) 362-9980
Photo of Alexander Nicolas, Clinical Social Work/Therapist in Philadelphia, PA
Alexander Nicolas
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, LSW
Verified Verified
1 Endorsed
Philadelphia, PA 19102  (Online Only)
I aim to create a nurturing, curious, and accepting space where you have the freedom to explore the different parts of your true self. Many of my clients are looking to understand and develop their identity or unpack their experiences with someone they can identify with. I help support clients through life transitions, toxic environments, and existential crises. Together, we will work to grow our capacity for nuance, experience clarity on our needs and desires, and find empowerment to change our circumstances.
I aim to create a nurturing, curious, and accepting space where you have the freedom to explore the different parts of your true self. Many of my clients are looking to understand and develop their identity or unpack their experiences with someone they can identify with. I help support clients through life transitions, toxic environments, and existential crises. Together, we will work to grow our capacity for nuance, experience clarity on our needs and desires, and find empowerment to change our circumstances.
(267) 497-8851 View (267) 497-8851
Photo of Noris DeJesus-Petrone, Pre-Licensed Professional in Philadelphia, PA
Noris DeJesus-Petrone
Pre-Licensed Professional, MA, LP-MFT
Verified Verified
1 Endorsed
Philadelphia, PA 19143  (Online Only)
I have always known that helping others is my purpose. My own personal life challenges and feeling that I was in a dark place pushed me a strong desire to understand myself and my feelings at a deeper level. I realized that I wanted to leave the world better than I had found it, and I wanted to do so by helping others to heal. My own healing journey brought me to help others through therapy. I use a strengths-based approach to help my clients ease the pain that they are experiencing, by not only being there and offering an empathetic ear, but by helping them to find the joy in life that they may have thought would be lost forever.
I have always known that helping others is my purpose. My own personal life challenges and feeling that I was in a dark place pushed me a strong desire to understand myself and my feelings at a deeper level. I realized that I wanted to leave the world better than I had found it, and I wanted to do so by helping others to heal. My own healing journey brought me to help others through therapy. I use a strengths-based approach to help my clients ease the pain that they are experiencing, by not only being there and offering an empathetic ear, but by helping them to find the joy in life that they may have thought would be lost forever.
(215) 458-2064 View (215) 458-2064
Photo of Constance Cosby, Clinical Social Work/Therapist in Philadelphia, PA
Constance Cosby
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, LCSW, OSW-C, CCTP
Verified Verified
2 Endorsed
Philadelphia, PA 19133
Waitlist for new clients
Are you finding that life just seems a little more difficult to manage? Do you feel parts of you have been lost or forgotten but not sure why? Would you like to understand how and why you're mental well-being might be impacted right now? There is no shame in seeking help with this...I'm a highly trained and experienced licensed clinical social worker, certified clinical trauma professional and certified oncology social worker. In my past experiences, I have worked in various settings with diverse individuals. My passion and purpose are helping women reconnect with themselves lovingly and healthily.
Are you finding that life just seems a little more difficult to manage? Do you feel parts of you have been lost or forgotten but not sure why? Would you like to understand how and why you're mental well-being might be impacted right now? There is no shame in seeking help with this...I'm a highly trained and experienced licensed clinical social worker, certified clinical trauma professional and certified oncology social worker. In my past experiences, I have worked in various settings with diverse individuals. My passion and purpose are helping women reconnect with themselves lovingly and healthily.
(215) 839-3262 View (215) 839-3262
Photo of Vanessa Stay, Licensed Professional Counselor in Philadelphia, PA
Vanessa Stay
Licensed Professional Counselor, MA, LPC
Verified Verified
2 Endorsed
Philadelphia, PA 19103  (Online Only)
My name is Vanessa, and I am the owner of Rooted in Care Counseling. I am passionate about supporting people through their unique experiences with mental health, and specialize in working with Black and other People of Color. I have always strived to be aware of how outside systemic issues and factors contribute to disparities in mental health care, particularly in communities of color. As a Black therapist, I believe that comprehensive mental health treatment acknowledges and accounts for how discrimination and other social barriers can affect one’s ability to process their experiences and safely navigate the world.
My name is Vanessa, and I am the owner of Rooted in Care Counseling. I am passionate about supporting people through their unique experiences with mental health, and specialize in working with Black and other People of Color. I have always strived to be aware of how outside systemic issues and factors contribute to disparities in mental health care, particularly in communities of color. As a Black therapist, I believe that comprehensive mental health treatment acknowledges and accounts for how discrimination and other social barriers can affect one’s ability to process their experiences and safely navigate the world.
(484) 324-2421 View (484) 324-2421
Photo of Jennifer V Kulka, Clinical Social Work/Therapist in Philadelphia, PA
Jennifer V Kulka
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, LCSW
Verified Verified
1 Endorsed
Philadelphia, PA 19123  (Online Only)
I can help you cope and heal from sexual and relationship trauma. Trauma can fracture who you are as a person. It can make you feel unlike yourself, distant from others, changed forever. This does not have to be permanent. Together, we can build resilience, access your strengths, and free you from your past. Learning to understand your trauma, manage symptoms, change patterns, and increase self-esteem can help you cultivate the life and meaningful relationships that you want. Most of my clients have experienced rape, sexual assault, childhood abuse, systemic oppression, and/or violence from a partner.
I can help you cope and heal from sexual and relationship trauma. Trauma can fracture who you are as a person. It can make you feel unlike yourself, distant from others, changed forever. This does not have to be permanent. Together, we can build resilience, access your strengths, and free you from your past. Learning to understand your trauma, manage symptoms, change patterns, and increase self-esteem can help you cultivate the life and meaningful relationships that you want. Most of my clients have experienced rape, sexual assault, childhood abuse, systemic oppression, and/or violence from a partner.
(267) 497-2204 View (267) 497-2204
Photo of Nakia Anderson, Licensed Professional Counselor in Philadelphia, PA
Nakia Anderson
Licensed Professional Counselor, LPC
Verified Verified
1 Endorsed
Philadelphia, PA 19125  (Online Only)
Waitlist for new clients
Massachusetts clients must have Blue Cross Blue Shield of Massachusetts to be seen. As a woman of color and an ally to the LGBTQIA community and sex workers, I pride myself on providing a welcoming, safe space where I listen to clients with compassion and non-judgment while challenging them to move forward. I work with adult-aged individuals who are facing the desire to improve the quality of their lives.
Massachusetts clients must have Blue Cross Blue Shield of Massachusetts to be seen. As a woman of color and an ally to the LGBTQIA community and sex workers, I pride myself on providing a welcoming, safe space where I listen to clients with compassion and non-judgment while challenging them to move forward. I work with adult-aged individuals who are facing the desire to improve the quality of their lives.
(610) 364-5872 View (610) 364-5872
Photo of Samantha DeFelice, Licensed Professional Counselor in Philadelphia, PA
Samantha DeFelice
Licensed Professional Counselor, LPC
Verified Verified
Philadelphia, PA 19103  (Online Only)
Samantha DeFelice is a Licensed Professional Counselor (LPC) with over 8 years of experience. She is focused on helping adolescents and adults to achieve their goals. Samantha previously worked in community mental health and saw a variety of mental health issues and other life challenges while in that field. Samantha specializes in anxiety, depression, self-esteem, and is open to working with people with all types of challenges. Samantha completed her Master's degree in Counseling at Missio Seminary (Previously Biblical Theological Seminary).
Samantha DeFelice is a Licensed Professional Counselor (LPC) with over 8 years of experience. She is focused on helping adolescents and adults to achieve their goals. Samantha previously worked in community mental health and saw a variety of mental health issues and other life challenges while in that field. Samantha specializes in anxiety, depression, self-esteem, and is open to working with people with all types of challenges. Samantha completed her Master's degree in Counseling at Missio Seminary (Previously Biblical Theological Seminary).
(484) 290-5027 View (484) 290-5027
Photo of Denise Botcheos, Clinical Social Work/Therapist in Philadelphia, PA
Denise Botcheos
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, LCSW
Verified Verified
Philadelphia, PA 19145  (Online Only)
I feel passionate about the work I do and am committed to helping people feel better about themselves and their lives. Over the last 25 years I have provided therapy to countless individuals. Among my areas of expertise are addiction, anxiety, depression and trauma. I am down-to-earth and my work is influenced by empathy, authenticity, and a commitment to helping others grow. I want to help you feel empowered, more alive, and connected to your vision of what you want your life to be.
I feel passionate about the work I do and am committed to helping people feel better about themselves and their lives. Over the last 25 years I have provided therapy to countless individuals. Among my areas of expertise are addiction, anxiety, depression and trauma. I am down-to-earth and my work is influenced by empathy, authenticity, and a commitment to helping others grow. I want to help you feel empowered, more alive, and connected to your vision of what you want your life to be.
(215) 996-7640 View (215) 996-7640
Photo of Claudia Apfelbaum, Clinical Social Work/Therapist in Philadelphia, PA
Claudia Apfelbaum
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, MSS, LCSW
Verified Verified
2 Endorsed
Philadelphia, PA 19144
I work with people in transition, who are seeking connection, meaning and purpose in their lives. I offer a safe space for you to process difficult emotions and dynamics in the present and from the past. Processing those experiences will help you gain control and feel in charge of your life. If you feel stuck, I can help.
I work with people in transition, who are seeking connection, meaning and purpose in their lives. I offer a safe space for you to process difficult emotions and dynamics in the present and from the past. Processing those experiences will help you gain control and feel in charge of your life. If you feel stuck, I can help.
(267) 633-8375 View (267) 633-8375
Photo of Elana Rosof, Psychologist in Philadelphia, PA
Elana Rosof
Psychologist, PhD
Verified Verified
Philadelphia, PA 19109
I am an interactive psychologist and work hard to help my clients improve their lives. My work is a combination of exploration and action oriented treatment so that those I treat make real changes in their lives. I work with a variety of issues including problems related to relationships, work, depression, anxiety and addiction. Feel free to call, ask as many questions as you like, and get a sense of how it might be to work with me.
I am an interactive psychologist and work hard to help my clients improve their lives. My work is a combination of exploration and action oriented treatment so that those I treat make real changes in their lives. I work with a variety of issues including problems related to relationships, work, depression, anxiety and addiction. Feel free to call, ask as many questions as you like, and get a sense of how it might be to work with me.
(917) 725-4195 View (917) 725-4195
Photo of Jessica Harris-Gray, Marriage & Family Therapist in Philadelphia, PA
Jessica Harris-Gray
Marriage & Family Therapist, LMFT
Verified Verified
Philadelphia, PA 19128  (Online Only)
Not accepting new clients
It is my belief that as people we strive to live happy, fulfilling lives. However, there are times that barriers get in the way of us actualizing this goal. Whether it is a recent change, persisting anxiety and depression, or a relationship that isn't going as you hoped, my aim is to empower you with the tools to overcome these barriers.
It is my belief that as people we strive to live happy, fulfilling lives. However, there are times that barriers get in the way of us actualizing this goal. Whether it is a recent change, persisting anxiety and depression, or a relationship that isn't going as you hoped, my aim is to empower you with the tools to overcome these barriers.
(484) 497-0042 View (484) 497-0042
Photo of Timothy Walsh, Licensed Professional Counselor in Philadelphia, PA
Timothy Walsh
Licensed Professional Counselor, MA, LPC, NCC, CCTP, CMHIMP
Verified Verified
17 Endorsed
Philadelphia, PA 19107
Life is a journey and we aren't meant to travel alone. Sometimes it's helpful to have a person to travel the path with you, to shine light in the dark places. Engaging in counseling is one way in which to get support with your struggles. If you are struggling with depression, anxiety, relationship issues, school, issues of faith, addictions or any other disruption to your life, I would love to get to know you and to help shine light in the dark places.
Life is a journey and we aren't meant to travel alone. Sometimes it's helpful to have a person to travel the path with you, to shine light in the dark places. Engaging in counseling is one way in which to get support with your struggles. If you are struggling with depression, anxiety, relationship issues, school, issues of faith, addictions or any other disruption to your life, I would love to get to know you and to help shine light in the dark places.
(484) 498-6634 View (484) 498-6634
Photo of Sankofa Healing Studio - Jacqui Johnson, Licensed Professional Counselor in Philadelphia, PA
Sankofa Healing Studio - Jacqui Johnson
Licensed Professional Counselor, MS, LPC, ATR-BC, CCMHC, PMH-C, RYT
Verified Verified
Philadelphia, PA 19102
Waitlist for new clients
As a Somatic Healing Justice Art, Play, & Hip-Hop Therapist, I view you as the master of your own narrative; my purpose is to walk beside you, offering light through the shadows when the path seems unclear. Together, we will navigate the unique landscape of your experiences. Embracing the principle of 'Sankofa', we recognize the courage in looking back to forge ahead, using this reflection to craft the narrative you aspire to live by. My approach integrates creative practices grounded in the understanding of trauma's impact on the brain, aiming to help you sculpt the life narrative you seek.
As a Somatic Healing Justice Art, Play, & Hip-Hop Therapist, I view you as the master of your own narrative; my purpose is to walk beside you, offering light through the shadows when the path seems unclear. Together, we will navigate the unique landscape of your experiences. Embracing the principle of 'Sankofa', we recognize the courage in looking back to forge ahead, using this reflection to craft the narrative you aspire to live by. My approach integrates creative practices grounded in the understanding of trauma's impact on the brain, aiming to help you sculpt the life narrative you seek.
(215) 802-3533 View (215) 802-3533
Photo of Emily Myer, Clinical Social Work/Therapist in Philadelphia, PA
Emily Myer
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, LICSW
Verified Verified
Philadelphia, PA 19121  (Online Only)
Accepting new clients! I specialize in working with young adults, members of the LGBTQI community, folks going through major life transitions, and workers in "helping" professions. I deeply value the therapeutic relationship and often return to the core touch-stones: feel your feelings, strive for a more integrated sense of self, and boundaries.
Accepting new clients! I specialize in working with young adults, members of the LGBTQI community, folks going through major life transitions, and workers in "helping" professions. I deeply value the therapeutic relationship and often return to the core touch-stones: feel your feelings, strive for a more integrated sense of self, and boundaries.
(215) 544-2496 View (215) 544-2496
Photo of Ariana Tosatto, Art Therapist in Philadelphia, PA
Ariana Tosatto
Art Therapist, MA, CHT, ATR-BC
Verified Verified
5 Endorsed
Philadelphia, PA 19144
No matter what challenge you are facing, making the decision to enter therapy is one of the most important steps we can take on the path to healing. I do not believe any of us were born to suffer. I seek to help my clients find the opportunities for growth that our challenges present us with. While I support my clients to learn to sit with and accept that difficult emotions are a part of living, I also help clients to identify where unnecessary suffering is created by limited beliefs and self concepts. By resolving unhealed traumas and the burdens of the past, we can experience a more wholehearted, joyful life.
No matter what challenge you are facing, making the decision to enter therapy is one of the most important steps we can take on the path to healing. I do not believe any of us were born to suffer. I seek to help my clients find the opportunities for growth that our challenges present us with. While I support my clients to learn to sit with and accept that difficult emotions are a part of living, I also help clients to identify where unnecessary suffering is created by limited beliefs and self concepts. By resolving unhealed traumas and the burdens of the past, we can experience a more wholehearted, joyful life.
(215) 709-9207 View (215) 709-9207
Photo of Jae Swanson, Licensed Professional Counselor in Philadelphia, PA
Jae Swanson
Licensed Professional Counselor, LPC
Verified Verified
Philadelphia, PA 19104
Jae Swanson (they/them) is a trauma-informed Licensed Professional Counselor and Board-Certified Music Therapist with over 10 years of experience specializing in anxiety, depression, Autism Spectrum, grief/bereavement, terminal illness, LGBTQIA+ issues, gender identity, and issues related to systemic oppression. Jae has experience working with children, adolescents, and adults of all ages, individually and in groups.
Jae Swanson (they/them) is a trauma-informed Licensed Professional Counselor and Board-Certified Music Therapist with over 10 years of experience specializing in anxiety, depression, Autism Spectrum, grief/bereavement, terminal illness, LGBTQIA+ issues, gender identity, and issues related to systemic oppression. Jae has experience working with children, adolescents, and adults of all ages, individually and in groups.
(267) 428-3453 View (267) 428-3453
Photo of Dr. Sarah Kinsch, Licensed Professional Counselor in Philadelphia, PA
Dr. Sarah Kinsch
Licensed Professional Counselor, LPC, MFT
Verified Verified
Philadelphia, PA 19103  (Online Only)
During the last 10 years as a therapist, clinical supervisor, and executive clinical director, I’ve worked with individuals who struggle to function in their everyday lives due to their mental health. For some, they make it look like they have it all together. For others, they are back and forth between hospitals or jails. You may find yourself in one of these circumstances or somewhere in between. Regardless, you deserve a life worth living.
During the last 10 years as a therapist, clinical supervisor, and executive clinical director, I’ve worked with individuals who struggle to function in their everyday lives due to their mental health. For some, they make it look like they have it all together. For others, they are back and forth between hospitals or jails. You may find yourself in one of these circumstances or somewhere in between. Regardless, you deserve a life worth living.
(484) 218-5856 View (484) 218-5856
Photo of Holistic Psychotherapy with Cole, Pre-Licensed Professional in Philadelphia, PA
Holistic Psychotherapy with Cole
Pre-Licensed Professional, MSEd, P-LPC
Verified Verified
Philadelphia, PA 19125
Through a client centered approach, I incorporate an existential orientation to empower and support clients in gaining a more holistic state of mental, emotional, and physical well-being. I am an IFS and CBT informed practitioner that leans on nature based interventions and mindfulness/trauma-informed stress reduction tools when needed. I tend to attract clients who are looking for a warmhearted and open-minded clinician who is affirming to neurodiversity and alternative lifestyles, while being participatory in the therapeutic process.
Through a client centered approach, I incorporate an existential orientation to empower and support clients in gaining a more holistic state of mental, emotional, and physical well-being. I am an IFS and CBT informed practitioner that leans on nature based interventions and mindfulness/trauma-informed stress reduction tools when needed. I tend to attract clients who are looking for a warmhearted and open-minded clinician who is affirming to neurodiversity and alternative lifestyles, while being participatory in the therapeutic process.
(215) 618-9641 View (215) 618-9641

See more therapy options for Philadelphia

How does your Therapist compare?

Number of Therapists in Philadelphia, PA

3,000+

Average cost per session

$143

Therapists in Philadelphia, PA who prioritize treating:

92% Anxiety
87% Depression
74% Self Esteem
71% Relationship Issues
69% Trauma and PTSD
64% Coping Skills
60% Stress

Average years in practice

10 Years

Top 3 insurances accepted

79% Aetna
67% UnitedHealthcare UHC | UBH
65% Cigna and Evernorth

How Therapists in Philadelphia, PA see their clients

50% In Person and Online
50% Online Only

Gender breakdown

77% Female
20% Male
3% Non-Binary
FAQs - About Therapy and Counseling

How can I find a therapist in Philadelphia?

Search for nearby therapists or counselors by inputting your city, town, or suburb; or zip code; or a provider’s name into the search bar. From there, you can filter providers by the issues they treat, cost, insurance, gender, and other factors to find providers who are well-suited to your needs. To navigate between locations within the same country, enter a new city or zip code into the search bar.

Learn more about how to find a therapist

Is everyone in the Psychology Today Therapy Directory a licensed therapist?

The Psychology Today directory lists providers who offer legitimate mental health services to the public, including psychologists, psychiatrists, social workers, and counselors.

Many have been licensed by the country or state where they practice; providers whose license or primary credential has been verified by Psychology Today are signified by a “Verified” symbol. Some clinicians or organizations provide services for which their state or country does not offer licenses, such as pastoral counseling. They may be selectively included without the “Verified” seal.

What’s the difference between a psychologist, a therapist, and a counselor?

Therapists, psychologists, and counselors are all licensed mental health professionals. In the US, psychologists have earned a doctoral degree. The terms “therapist” and “counselor” are used somewhat interchangeably, but generally therapists offer longer-term, mental health care, while counselors offer shorter-term care that may focus on one domain, such as marriage, career, or academic challenges.

Clients should consider factors such as insurance coverage and their primary reason(s) for seeking therapy to determine the type of professional best suited to their needs. Someone struggling with mental health challenges such as depression or anxiety, for example, may wish to seek out a clinical psychologist or therapist, while someone navigating career obstacles or marital upheaval may benefit from seeing a counselor who can offer short-term, targeted support.

What type of therapy is right for me?

The type of therapy best suited to a particular individual depends on several factors, including their primary reason for seeking therapy, their preferred timeline (some therapy types last for a set number of sessions, while others are open-ended), and their personality and preferences—some may prefer a more structured approach. For many individuals, multiple types of therapy could provide a good fit.

How much does therapy cost?

The cost of therapy depends on a number of variables, including location and the therapist’s experience and training. On average, a therapy session in the United States could cost between $100 and $200 or more. If you have insurance, the expense of mental health care is typically lower, but it varies based on your insurance plan details and whether you choose an in-network or out-of-network mental healthcare provider.

What are more affordable or low cost therapy solutions?

Many therapists offer sliding scale payments, usually on a limited number of slots, which consists in an agreement between the therapist and a client to pay a reduced rate. Therapists who provide such arrangements often consider the client's income or ability to pay, but the extent of the discount is ultimately at the therapist's discretion. Furthermore, while group therapy may have different goals and benefits compared to individual therapy, it can be a more affordable solution to address certain types of issues.

Is online therapy cheaper than in-person therapy?

Many therapists charge the same amount for online therapy as they do for in-person therapy—though clients may still find this cost-effective if it cuts down on their transportation costs. Health insurance plans often offer equivalent coverage for online and in-person therapy; indeed, in many places, they are legally required to do so. Text-based or on-demand therapy apps may be cheaper than traditional one-on-one psychotherapy; however, the practice may be less effective and is not likely to be covered by insurance.

Is online therapy a good option?

Therapy conducted online can be just as effective as in-person therapy, as long as there is a strong alliance between the client and the therapist. To find a therapist who provides telehealth services to clients in your area, click “Online Therapy” on the directory homepage and search by your city or town or your zip code.

Are therapy sessions confidential?

Confidentiality is a crucial part of the therapeutic relationship. Therapists in the United States are bound by the regulations set out by the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA), which aims to protect sensitive health information. With very few exceptions, a therapist will only discuss their client with others when the client has given their written permission. The instances in which a therapist would be required to disclose personal information are: if a client poses a danger to themselves or others, if the therapist suspects the abuse of a child or an elderly or otherwise dependent adult, or if they are legally forced to by court order. These exceptions to the confidentiality agreement are usually discussed with a client before their first session.