Photo of Kathryn Smith, Clinical Social Work/Therapist in Alpharetta, GA
Kathryn Smith
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, LCSW, RPT
Verified Verified
2 Endorsed
Alpharetta, GA 30009
Welcome! My clients are often looking for relationally-based therapy that recognizes their strengths and takes a collaborative approach to working together. My youngest clients are often recovering from traumatic losses and in need of support as they learn new ways of regulating their emotions and dealing with anxiety in relationships at home and in school. Adult clients are often looking for help with various forms of trauma, anxiety, grief, chronic stress/burnout, depression, and ambiguous loss. I use foundational approaches of interpersonal neurobiology and attachment theory to tailor therapy to each client's unique needs.
Welcome! My clients are often looking for relationally-based therapy that recognizes their strengths and takes a collaborative approach to working together. My youngest clients are often recovering from traumatic losses and in need of support as they learn new ways of regulating their emotions and dealing with anxiety in relationships at home and in school. Adult clients are often looking for help with various forms of trauma, anxiety, grief, chronic stress/burnout, depression, and ambiguous loss. I use foundational approaches of interpersonal neurobiology and attachment theory to tailor therapy to each client's unique needs.
(678) 647-6583 View (678) 647-6583
Photo of Tamara McNeil, Counselor in Alpharetta, GA
Tamara McNeil
Counselor, LAPC, TAC, NCC
Verified Verified
1 Endorsed
Alpharetta, GA 30004  (Online Only)
As a seasoned counselor and mental health coach, I am committed to assisting parents in developing thoughtful and effective parenting plans that consider the well-being of all children involved. Whether navigating custody arrangements, visitation schedules, or fostering positive co-parenting relationships, I provide guidance that prioritizes the needs of the children while fostering cooperation and understanding among parents. My work is grounded in the belief that every blended family is unique, and as such, I tailor my approach to suit the individual dynamics and challenges each family faces.
As a seasoned counselor and mental health coach, I am committed to assisting parents in developing thoughtful and effective parenting plans that consider the well-being of all children involved. Whether navigating custody arrangements, visitation schedules, or fostering positive co-parenting relationships, I provide guidance that prioritizes the needs of the children while fostering cooperation and understanding among parents. My work is grounded in the belief that every blended family is unique, and as such, I tailor my approach to suit the individual dynamics and challenges each family faces.
(770) 738-9857 View (770) 738-9857
Photo of Claire S Parker, Clinical Social Work/Therapist in Alpharetta, GA
Claire S Parker
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, LCSW
Verified Verified
Alpharetta, GA 30009
Hello, I am Claire Parker, a licensed therapist in Alpharetta, Georgia. As a therapist, I take an active role in listening, empowering, and supporting my client’s own unique experience. I place great importance on authenticity, and infuse humor into my therapeutic style. I am devoted to provide a non-judgment, accepting environment in which you will feel comfortable to do the remarkable work of psychotherapy.
Hello, I am Claire Parker, a licensed therapist in Alpharetta, Georgia. As a therapist, I take an active role in listening, empowering, and supporting my client’s own unique experience. I place great importance on authenticity, and infuse humor into my therapeutic style. I am devoted to provide a non-judgment, accepting environment in which you will feel comfortable to do the remarkable work of psychotherapy.
(678) 853-7480 View (678) 853-7480
Photo of Symmetry Counseling, LLC, Licensed Professional Counselor in Alpharetta, GA
Symmetry Counseling, LLC
Licensed Professional Counselor
Verified Verified
Alpharetta, GA 30009
At Symmetry Counseling we strive to support the mind-body connection in healing the complete person. We offer psychotherapy and psychological testing services as well as supportive therapies for all phases and stages of life and have a diverse staff available to meet your needs. Our clinicians are seasoned professionals with many years of experience providing an exceptional level of care to clients.
At Symmetry Counseling we strive to support the mind-body connection in healing the complete person. We offer psychotherapy and psychological testing services as well as supportive therapies for all phases and stages of life and have a diverse staff available to meet your needs. Our clinicians are seasoned professionals with many years of experience providing an exceptional level of care to clients.
(770) 637-4310 View (770) 637-4310
Photo of Jennifer Fennell, Psychologist in Alpharetta, GA
Jennifer Fennell
Psychologist, PsyD
Verified Verified
Alpharetta, GA 30005
Waitlist for new clients
With 15+years experience, I love working with a wide range of populations including veterans, adults, adolescents and young adults. I possess a strong awareness and sensitivity to cultural and socioeconomic factors that influence disorders and treatment. My goal is to find ways to remove barriers so that clients can receive the help they deserve. My therapeutic focus is on the interpersonal needs and situational difficulties of my clients from a cognitive behavioral, client centered approach. I believe in developing a trusting and healthy relationship in which you feel comfortable with me being a part of your life's journey.
With 15+years experience, I love working with a wide range of populations including veterans, adults, adolescents and young adults. I possess a strong awareness and sensitivity to cultural and socioeconomic factors that influence disorders and treatment. My goal is to find ways to remove barriers so that clients can receive the help they deserve. My therapeutic focus is on the interpersonal needs and situational difficulties of my clients from a cognitive behavioral, client centered approach. I believe in developing a trusting and healthy relationship in which you feel comfortable with me being a part of your life's journey.
(770) 467-3349 View (770) 467-3349
Photo of Ashlee Sitzmann-Hedges, Clinical Social Work/Therapist in Alpharetta, GA
Ashlee Sitzmann-Hedges
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, LCSW
Verified Verified
4 Endorsed
Alpharetta, GA 30004
One of my favorite things about this process is getting to know you and your past experiences in hopes that you might get to know more about yourself and the person you want to be going forward. My style is engaged, honest and relational. I offer a warm environment where we can address sensitive topics at a comfortable pace. We will work collaboratively and creatively to address unwanted patterns and behaviors that might have you feeling stuck. We may explore new strategies for things like coping, communicating and connecting in an effort to strengthen your sense of self-worth, relationships and quality of life.
One of my favorite things about this process is getting to know you and your past experiences in hopes that you might get to know more about yourself and the person you want to be going forward. My style is engaged, honest and relational. I offer a warm environment where we can address sensitive topics at a comfortable pace. We will work collaboratively and creatively to address unwanted patterns and behaviors that might have you feeling stuck. We may explore new strategies for things like coping, communicating and connecting in an effort to strengthen your sense of self-worth, relationships and quality of life.
(770) 913-6278 View (770) 913-6278
Photo of Sharilee Benjamin, Clinical Social Work/Therapist in Alpharetta, GA
Sharilee Benjamin
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, LMSW, CTP
Verified Verified
Alpharetta, GA 30022  (Online Only)
I am a psychotherapist, Licensed Master Social Worker (LMSW), and certified trauma professional, currently pursuing full licensure. I am passionate about helping individuals and families restore or cultivate emotional, physical, and social well-being and tranquility. So whether you're struggling with anxiety, low self-esteem, feeling overwhelmed, or unmotivated, I am here to help you.
I am a psychotherapist, Licensed Master Social Worker (LMSW), and certified trauma professional, currently pursuing full licensure. I am passionate about helping individuals and families restore or cultivate emotional, physical, and social well-being and tranquility. So whether you're struggling with anxiety, low self-esteem, feeling overwhelmed, or unmotivated, I am here to help you.
(678) 716-7386 View (678) 716-7386
Photo of The Comfy Place, Clinical Social Work/Therapist in Alpharetta, GA
The Comfy Place
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, MSW, LCSW, CAMSII, LICSW
Verified Verified
12 Endorsed
Alpharetta, GA 30009
Welcome to The Comfy Place! We know that seeking out therapy can be a new & sometimes uncomfortable experience, but we appreciate you considering us to help you on your journey. We are a group of therapists dedicated to helping kids, teens, adults, couples, & families heal. We understand that life has many ups & downs so we aim to create a safe space where people can have FUN, get REAL, and HEAL. We want everyone to feel like they are a part of our Comfy Place family where we welcome all with open arms no matter where they are on their walk in life.
Welcome to The Comfy Place! We know that seeking out therapy can be a new & sometimes uncomfortable experience, but we appreciate you considering us to help you on your journey. We are a group of therapists dedicated to helping kids, teens, adults, couples, & families heal. We understand that life has many ups & downs so we aim to create a safe space where people can have FUN, get REAL, and HEAL. We want everyone to feel like they are a part of our Comfy Place family where we welcome all with open arms no matter where they are on their walk in life.
(678) 931-9473 View (678) 931-9473
Photo of Lisa M. Reid, Clinical Social Work/Therapist in Alpharetta, GA
Lisa M. Reid
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, MSW, LCSW
Verified Verified
3 Endorsed
Alpharetta, GA 30009
Not accepting new clients
Are you highly sensitive, deeply empathetic or easily hurt? Feel tired & stressed? Simply stuck? You may be caught in a cycle of self-sabotaging thoughts and behaviors. If you are motivated for change, and seek an experienced therapist who utilizes cutting edge techniques, you are in the right profile. Invested in teaching you tools & helping you resolve what has you stuck, Lisa creates a comforting atmosphere for you to feel heard, known & understood. It is time to embrace your unique gifts, learn to breathe easier and live more freely, so you can experience lasting joy, independence & success. You are worth it! Call today.
Are you highly sensitive, deeply empathetic or easily hurt? Feel tired & stressed? Simply stuck? You may be caught in a cycle of self-sabotaging thoughts and behaviors. If you are motivated for change, and seek an experienced therapist who utilizes cutting edge techniques, you are in the right profile. Invested in teaching you tools & helping you resolve what has you stuck, Lisa creates a comforting atmosphere for you to feel heard, known & understood. It is time to embrace your unique gifts, learn to breathe easier and live more freely, so you can experience lasting joy, independence & success. You are worth it! Call today.
(470) 264-7944 View (470) 264-7944
Photo of Christy Plaice, Licensed Professional Counselor in Alpharetta, GA
Christy Plaice
Licensed Professional Counselor, LPC, MAC, CCT
Verified Verified
2 Endorsed
Alpharetta, GA 30005
Not accepting new clients
Whether you’ve been to therapy before or this is your first time ever, we value and respect your desire for healthy change in your life. Many of us struggle to cope when our needs are not met or are misunderstood, and at times, experience separateness from others. Most of us long deeply for true authentic connection, to feel seen, and for someone to “get me”. These thoughts and feelings can cause wounding and challenges in relationship to others. We are dedicated to helping people move through their challenges and feelings of disconnection and stuck-ness and into a life with greater vitality and meaning.
Whether you’ve been to therapy before or this is your first time ever, we value and respect your desire for healthy change in your life. Many of us struggle to cope when our needs are not met or are misunderstood, and at times, experience separateness from others. Most of us long deeply for true authentic connection, to feel seen, and for someone to “get me”. These thoughts and feelings can cause wounding and challenges in relationship to others. We are dedicated to helping people move through their challenges and feelings of disconnection and stuck-ness and into a life with greater vitality and meaning.
(404) 982-4715 View (404) 982-4715

More Therapists Nearby

Photo of Breeann Hamp, Clinical Social Work/Therapist in Alpharetta, GA
Breeann Hamp
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, LCSW, MSW
Verified Verified
Duluth, GA 30097  (Online Only)
I have experience with individuals in their formative years, especially surrounding adoption, and have worked extensively with adolescents.
I provide a nonjudgmental and accepting environment for clients to feel safe as they tell their stories. I take a collaborative approach, understanding and recognizing that we must work together to accomplish your goals, offering support every step of the way. I recognize that deciding to find a therapist and seeking treatment is a difficult, challenging and highly personal decision. Talking about your life and disclosing personal details to someone you've never met in a professional setting can be daunting and unnerving. I strive to create a comfortable environment for each one of my clients, honoring self-determination.
I have experience with individuals in their formative years, especially surrounding adoption, and have worked extensively with adolescents.
I provide a nonjudgmental and accepting environment for clients to feel safe as they tell their stories. I take a collaborative approach, understanding and recognizing that we must work together to accomplish your goals, offering support every step of the way. I recognize that deciding to find a therapist and seeking treatment is a difficult, challenging and highly personal decision. Talking about your life and disclosing personal details to someone you've never met in a professional setting can be daunting and unnerving. I strive to create a comfortable environment for each one of my clients, honoring self-determination.
(470) 946-6420 View (470) 946-6420
Photo of Steven Andrews, Pre-Licensed Professional in Alpharetta, GA
Steven Andrews
Pre-Licensed Professional, MA, MDiv
Verified Verified
Dunwoody, GA 30338
Have you been traumatized by a religious belief or spiritual figure? Are you experiencing issues related to an LGBTQIA+ identity? Are you recovering from or in the thrall of an addiction? Do you live with autism or foster/adoption issues? At the intersection of trauma, substance use, family resilience, and queer identity, I work. I am an autistic, bisexual former foster child, who also happens to be knowledgeable about faith, spirituality, and the pervasive impact of trauma. If you have been wounded in one or more of these intersecting arenas, I would be privileged to be a part of your journey toward wholeness and healing.
Have you been traumatized by a religious belief or spiritual figure? Are you experiencing issues related to an LGBTQIA+ identity? Are you recovering from or in the thrall of an addiction? Do you live with autism or foster/adoption issues? At the intersection of trauma, substance use, family resilience, and queer identity, I work. I am an autistic, bisexual former foster child, who also happens to be knowledgeable about faith, spirituality, and the pervasive impact of trauma. If you have been wounded in one or more of these intersecting arenas, I would be privileged to be a part of your journey toward wholeness and healing.
(678) 968-0397 View (678) 968-0397
Photo of Erica Welsh, Counselor in Alpharetta, GA
Erica Welsh
Counselor, MAMFT, LAPC
Verified Verified
1 Endorsed
Suwanee, GA 30024
I am excited to connect with people who find themselves ready for a change, but perhaps unsure of how to make that happen for themselves. I enjoy helping people explore all parts of their life to help make sense of present situations and to make a plan for a healthier future. This can look like discussing nutrition, exercise, emotional intelligence, past relationships and family dynamics, as well as a myriad of other topics. I prioritize a holistic approach for not only my clients, but for my own life as well and have personally experienced healthy change from this perspective.
I am excited to connect with people who find themselves ready for a change, but perhaps unsure of how to make that happen for themselves. I enjoy helping people explore all parts of their life to help make sense of present situations and to make a plan for a healthier future. This can look like discussing nutrition, exercise, emotional intelligence, past relationships and family dynamics, as well as a myriad of other topics. I prioritize a holistic approach for not only my clients, but for my own life as well and have personally experienced healthy change from this perspective.
(404) 531-1784 View (404) 531-1784
Photo of Courtney Hintermeyer, Licensed Professional Counselor in Alpharetta, GA
Courtney Hintermeyer
Licensed Professional Counselor, LPC
Verified Verified
3 Endorsed
Roswell, GA 30075
Hi, I'm Courtney. I am Licensed Professional Counselor (LPC), and Somatic Experiencing Practitioner (SEP), and am EMDR trained. I specialize in working with individuals who have experienced trauma, and helping them to heal the effect trauma has in a person's nervous system and life. I have served in a wide range of clinical settings, working on an inpatient unit for trauma and eating disorders, in residential programs for sexual exploitation, human trafficking, and addictions, as well as the private practice setting.
Hi, I'm Courtney. I am Licensed Professional Counselor (LPC), and Somatic Experiencing Practitioner (SEP), and am EMDR trained. I specialize in working with individuals who have experienced trauma, and helping them to heal the effect trauma has in a person's nervous system and life. I have served in a wide range of clinical settings, working on an inpatient unit for trauma and eating disorders, in residential programs for sexual exploitation, human trafficking, and addictions, as well as the private practice setting.
(470) 435-8881 View (470) 435-8881
Photo of Cherese Mbila, Pre-Licensed Professional in Alpharetta, GA
Cherese Mbila
Pre-Licensed Professional, MA, NCC
Verified Verified
1 Endorsed
Johns Creek, GA 30022
Welcome to the best chapter of your life! This chapter is called Freedom! You are the writer, editor, and star of this narrative. I am here to help you navigate and make it to your destination. I began my practice out of my passion to help others gain emotional, spiritual, and mental freedom from bondage. Through counseling and coaching I am committed to leading others to reach their full potential and live a life with purpose. With over 20 years experience, I specialize in treating trauma, attachment issues, racialized trauma, and domestic violence using a variety of treatment styles to meet your individual needs.
Welcome to the best chapter of your life! This chapter is called Freedom! You are the writer, editor, and star of this narrative. I am here to help you navigate and make it to your destination. I began my practice out of my passion to help others gain emotional, spiritual, and mental freedom from bondage. Through counseling and coaching I am committed to leading others to reach their full potential and live a life with purpose. With over 20 years experience, I specialize in treating trauma, attachment issues, racialized trauma, and domestic violence using a variety of treatment styles to meet your individual needs.
(678) 658-2620 View (678) 658-2620
Photo of Robert W Poynter Ill, Licensed Professional Counselor in Alpharetta, GA
Robert W Poynter Ill
Licensed Professional Counselor, MS, EdS, LPC, NCC, CCHT
Verified Verified
Roswell, GA 30076
While working from a mindfulness-based approach, I incorporate teachings from Eastern and Western philosophies while meeting the individual wherever they are in the moment. My holistic approach involves the mind-body connection, neuroscience, neurobiology, quantum theory, polyvagal theory, tapping into the bioenergetic field, and how the brain, mind and body are interrelated. I utilize natural healing techniques such as; breathing exercises, relaxation therapy, visualization, mindfulness meditation, emotional regulation techniques, self-compassion awareness, energy work, and hypnotherapy to facilitate change (Natural Healing).
While working from a mindfulness-based approach, I incorporate teachings from Eastern and Western philosophies while meeting the individual wherever they are in the moment. My holistic approach involves the mind-body connection, neuroscience, neurobiology, quantum theory, polyvagal theory, tapping into the bioenergetic field, and how the brain, mind and body are interrelated. I utilize natural healing techniques such as; breathing exercises, relaxation therapy, visualization, mindfulness meditation, emotional regulation techniques, self-compassion awareness, energy work, and hypnotherapy to facilitate change (Natural Healing).
(678) 792-0608 View (678) 792-0608
Photo of Debbie Weitz, Counselor in Alpharetta, GA
Debbie Weitz
Counselor, EdS, NCC, APC
Verified Verified
1 Endorsed
Roswell, GA 30075
Debbie Weitz is an Associate Professional Therapist who hails from Marietta, Georgia. She received her Bachelor of Arts from the University of Georgia, and earned both her Master of Science and Specialist in Education degrees from the Florida State University. She also completed a PK-12 Professional School Counseling Post-Graduate Certificate from Mercer University. Throughout her career, Debbie has served as a Mock Interview Mentor, University Career Center Advisor, University Co-Instructor, School Counselor, and Associate Professional Counselor within Private Practice.
Debbie Weitz is an Associate Professional Therapist who hails from Marietta, Georgia. She received her Bachelor of Arts from the University of Georgia, and earned both her Master of Science and Specialist in Education degrees from the Florida State University. She also completed a PK-12 Professional School Counseling Post-Graduate Certificate from Mercer University. Throughout her career, Debbie has served as a Mock Interview Mentor, University Career Center Advisor, University Co-Instructor, School Counselor, and Associate Professional Counselor within Private Practice.
(678) 509-6440 View (678) 509-6440
Photo of Patty Alexander, Licensed Professional Counselor in Alpharetta, GA
Patty Alexander
Licensed Professional Counselor, MS, LPC
Verified Verified
Dunwoody, GA 30338
Are you experiencing anxiety or depression? Do you feel stuck and have trouble making decisions? In a troubled relationship or marriage? Have problems communicating? Family tensions? Would you like to feel more calm and experience your emotions in a more healthy way? It can be very difficult to know where to turn when you need help. My 15+ years of experience have given me the ability to provide compassionate, non-judgmental guidance, support and direction to some of life's most difficult challenges. I work with trauma, parenting, ADHD, healing from the past, relational issues, adjustment to life change & life coaching.
Are you experiencing anxiety or depression? Do you feel stuck and have trouble making decisions? In a troubled relationship or marriage? Have problems communicating? Family tensions? Would you like to feel more calm and experience your emotions in a more healthy way? It can be very difficult to know where to turn when you need help. My 15+ years of experience have given me the ability to provide compassionate, non-judgmental guidance, support and direction to some of life's most difficult challenges. I work with trauma, parenting, ADHD, healing from the past, relational issues, adjustment to life change & life coaching.
(404) 471-3036 View (404) 471-3036
Photo of Trudy Post Sprunk, Licensed Professional Counselor in Alpharetta, GA
Trudy Post Sprunk
Licensed Professional Counselor, LMFT, LPC SEP, RPTS, EMDR, CPCS
Verified Verified
1 Endorsed
Norcross, GA 30071
During the last 45 plus years, I have provided experiential psychotherapy to children, teens, and adults in individual, couple, family, and group settings. I have given over 800 lectures on the subjects of divorce, parenting, transgender, family play therapy, supervision, learning disabilities, grief, ADHD, play therapy, adolescence, etc. I am a registered play therapist, certified in EMDR, and provide supervision and consultation to other psychotherapists.
During the last 45 plus years, I have provided experiential psychotherapy to children, teens, and adults in individual, couple, family, and group settings. I have given over 800 lectures on the subjects of divorce, parenting, transgender, family play therapy, supervision, learning disabilities, grief, ADHD, play therapy, adolescence, etc. I am a registered play therapist, certified in EMDR, and provide supervision and consultation to other psychotherapists.
(678) 740-3813 View (678) 740-3813

Online Therapists

Photo of Clerissa Cooper, Counselor in Alpharetta, GA
Clerissa Cooper
Counselor, MS, LPC, SEP, CDBT, CPCS
Verified Verified
7 Endorsed
Atlanta, GA 30324
I help individuals and their families overcome difficulties associated with mood disorders, anxiety disorders including OCD, personality disorders, trauma, relationship issues, and the adoption triad utilizing mindfulness, cognitive, behavioral, interpersonal, clinical hypnotherapy, Exposure and Response Prevention, and Somatic Experiencing techniques.
I value honest and thoughtful communication, which means I communicate in an attentive, supportive, compassionate, empowering, and non-judgmental manner while being authentic, direct, and transparent. I utilize validation and humor in therapy to foster connection and to create space for healthy, long-lasting change. I seek to help my clients deeply accept and understand their own thoughts, emotions, actions, and experiences so they can more effectively navigate their relationships with self and the world.
I help individuals and their families overcome difficulties associated with mood disorders, anxiety disorders including OCD, personality disorders, trauma, relationship issues, and the adoption triad utilizing mindfulness, cognitive, behavioral, interpersonal, clinical hypnotherapy, Exposure and Response Prevention, and Somatic Experiencing techniques.
I value honest and thoughtful communication, which means I communicate in an attentive, supportive, compassionate, empowering, and non-judgmental manner while being authentic, direct, and transparent. I utilize validation and humor in therapy to foster connection and to create space for healthy, long-lasting change. I seek to help my clients deeply accept and understand their own thoughts, emotions, actions, and experiences so they can more effectively navigate their relationships with self and the world.
(404) 445-1177 View (404) 445-1177
Adoption Therapists

Does my adopted child need therapy?

Not every adopted child needs therapy. However, many can benefit from seeing an adoption-informed therapist, especially if they were victims of abuse or neglect, appear withdrawn or disconnected, have behavioral or developmental issues (which may or may not be related to their adoption), are struggling with feelings of grief or loss surrounding their birth parents, or find it difficult to establish an identity, a challenge that often becomes most apparent during adolescence.

When should adoptive parents seek therapy?

Prospective parents can benefit from therapy even before an adoption—for example, to voice worries and fears; to reconcile infertility struggles, if relevant; or simply to prepare themselves for parenthood. After the adoption, parents who are struggling to bond with their child; are unsure how to talk about adoption or related issues, such as race; or whose child is dealing with developmental, behavioral, or psychiatric concerns can address these and other issues with the help of an adoption-competent therapist.

Is family therapy appropriate for adoptive families?

Family therapy can be invaluable for strengthening the bond between adoptive parents and children, helping the latter feel more secure in their place in the family. Family therapy can also help adoptive families navigate complex communication issues—for example, parents who feel uncomfortable discussing race with their child, who in turn feels invalidated by their silence, or a child who has questions about his birth parents but avoids asking them out of fear of hurting his adoptive parents’ feelings.

What therapy is not appropriate for adoption issues?

A discredited therapy known as “attachment therapy” (sometimes called “holding therapy” or “rebirthing therapy”) should not be used to treat adopted and foster children, though it was largely designed for this population. Attachment therapy involves restraining, coercing, and punishing the child in order for them to “release” negative emotions and attach to their new caregivers—techniques that are abusive and dangerous and have even proven fatal in some cases.