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Women chase after these kinds of men when the women themselves are in there 20's and maybe early 30's. But once women get older and had their experiences, they realize that they want a man that’s emotionally stable. Not someone that can't commit because he has insecurity problems. There is a different type of asshole in my opinion, a softer gentle kind of asshole. The type that treats you good and very well, but then decides that he's not ready for a relationship or can't commit after he's had his fun with you. So you think maybe he was hurt before (insecurity) and is afraid to commit or maybe he simply just got bored of you and is moving on to a novel female. Where he starts in a new adventure and will eventually get bored of that one too. It doesn't matter how good you look or how good of a women you are, he will get bored. Just look at the whole Tiger Woods situation, a beautiful wife and he still cheats. Meanwhile, a lot of women out there are hurting great guys that genuinely want to commit and be in a relationship, but that’s not what we want, we want the dumbass challenge. I'm a woman and I can tell you that most women are just dumb for chasing any guy and trying to fix them. Good example of a true and honorable man is the character Hugh Jackman plays in the movie "Kate and Leopold" with Meg Ryan. But women now think that these types of men are weak and boring.
A few months ago, back in the golden days of interning at PT, I read a blog post that changed my life. Scott Barry Kaufman, or as I affectionately refer to him, SBK, wrote: Do Assholes Really Finish First?
He discussed the phenomenon of women falling for "bad boys" or "assholes" and included various research to back such claims. I encourage you all to read his post if you haven't, but if you want my CliffsNotes version, feel free to park your mouse here for a moment.
SBK writes: "Bad boys tend to have lots of positive traits that come along for the ride of the badness, such as good looks, confidence, creativity, humor, charisma, high energy, and good social skills—all things women find attractive."
He also found that for men "one striking direct path to mating success stood out... low agreeableness; the lower the agreeableness, the more sexual partners."
In terms of psychology, "the 'asshole' consists of the following traits: High Extraversion, Low Neuroticism (perhaps), Low Conscientiousness, Low Agreeableness, High Openness to Experience, and a bit of a dip into the dark triad traits (those with an extreme dark triad profile aren't considered sexually attractive)." The dark triad refers to three personality deficiencies: narcissism, Machiavellianism, and psychopathy.
SBK also raised the question, why do girls want to be with the bad boy?
He found an answer from Michelle at Girlfriend's Planet, who eloquently put it like this: "[Bad Boys] don't really ever commit to you, therefore you're always chasing after them. The challenge! As women, we're kind of wired to think that we can change anyone, and bad boys are no exception."
It was as if SBK had come into the dressing room of my soul and had seen my naked psychological self. How utterly accurate his findings were!
Finally, an explanation for this crazy inexplicable attraction! I simply liked assholes...
Wait a minute.
I like assholes?
This is suddenly very depressing.
I quickly assess my past romantic interludes and wonder just how many of my gentleman callers were actual textbook-definition "assholes."
One, Two, Ten... err... None.
Sure they were outgoing, charming, open to new experiences, funny, handsome, maybe even a bit narcissistic, which all fits the psychological asshole profile, but they've never been Tucker Max mean to me.
Okay, so they've hurt me, but never intentionally. I think that most guys get faulted or called an "asshole" because they can't give the girl what she wants. I know I'm guilty of that. Trevor broke up with you? Oh, he's an asshole!
Really? Trevor is an asshole because he was honest about his feelings?
Perhaps, if Trevor cheated on you, berated you in public, gave you a couple of black eyes or called you a fat, ugly whore, he would earn the title, but for breaking up with you?
In fact, Trevor was a great boyfriend. He would call and leave stupid sappy voicemails, do a hysterical Kermit impression, and surprise visit you in France while you were studying abroad, because he knew you didn't want to be alone for the holidays.
Trevor was never an asshole. Neither were any of the guys I dated and then vilified as "assholes" in my dream journal. Even Eric, who cheated, wasn't an asshole. He was genuinely apologetic and vowed never to hurt me again. Of course, he did in other ways, but he had a good heart. Very rarely do guys actually want to inflict pain on you.
These guys weren't bad boys; they were just emotionally unavailable.
Non-committal, not ready for a relationship, whatever you want to call it—that's it! That's where the allure comes from. Not the bad boy himself, but his inability to commit. Even good guys exhibit this quality. Arguably the best guy of them all, Edward Cullen, also has commitment issues. Yes, he loved Bella, but he did leave her behind in a vampire-susceptible forest. What was up with that?
Maybe for me, it boils down to this old saying, you always want what you can't have.
Women want some chase, some drama, some intrigue. If it's too easy to get the guy, then she might think, "Wait, he just fell into my lap. This is fishy. Maybe he thinks that I'm too good for him. Cool. I'm too good for him. Wait, if I'm too good for him, then that means I could do better. Next!"
I hate to say this, but this thought has crossed my mind (and I'm sure others' as well) more than once. The allure of the emotionally unavailable guy is that he doesn't think the girl is worth committing to, not yet anyway, which can be construed as, "you're not good enough for me," which automatically makes the girl want to be "good enough." So she starts chasing the guy, when she damn well knows that she shouldn't.
This part is what Michelle refers to as "the challenge."
Oh, the challenge!
How do you overcome this challenge? Is there an eHow on this? I'd be happy to read it. Dr. Drew? Oprah? SBK? Anyone?
At the very least, it's comforting to know that I'm not inexorably drawn to assholes, just non-committals.
Wait a minute...
Be sure to read the following responses to this post by our bloggers:
An asshole is an asshole.
An asshole is an asshole. They just come in different packages. Take it from an asshole who learned to regret it.
I agree with Janet. Women in
I agree with Janet. Women in their 20s and sometimes early 30s do not want to settle. They believe they have time, because men do all the work of asking women out and risking rejection. Women typically only need to look good and hang out at the right places, make some eye contact and respond appropriately. The effort needed is too low for a woman to be invested in a relationship. There are exceptions, of course. However, for a lot of women, there's a certain thrill of being treated badly. It is a sexual urge which comes from an innate masochistic tendency. It is a turn on to be treated badly, sometimes. A man who will manhandle and be a bit rough makes the juices flow. That's the key reason. There's no such thing as a challenge. It's purely just dark masochistic sexuality. Plain and simple. We give all kinds of excuses so as to never admit this to anyone.
a-holes finish first
Men also chase a-holes -- women who use them and keep them in the "friend zone". It's fun being a slave...not.
"Inability to commit"
Interesting post, and kudos to you for examining your own assumptions. Since you sort of asked for advice, let me offer a little from the perspective of a guy pushing 50. You aren't into "bad boys" so much as you're into men who are true to themselves. That's what gives them the fearlessness to be funny and surprising and fly to France on a whim. Men and women are caught up in a false-flag operation where we've been convinced that we are each other's enemy when the real enemy is the fantasy of long-term sexual monogamy that's pushed by media and science. It's bunk (read our book for the details). We are a species that is highly sexual (arguably more than any other species on the planet), but we're told we're not. We're told that we should seek "a mate" who will solve all our emotional problems forever. These men who were unwilling to sign on to that were self-actualized enough to know (or sense) that this was not congruent with who they are. Divorce rates and angry, disappointed women testify to the fact that men just aren't made for that sort of arrangement, at least not while they're young. Tragically, many men don't come to this realization until after they've married and had kids, thus leaving a lot of destruction behind them.
My point being, it's not his "inability to commit:" it's his unwillingness. "Inability" implies weakness, whereas it's the weakest men who go along with what's expected of them.
Here's another perspective on this I'm sure you'll find interesting, like it or not:
http://www.nerve.com/personalEssays/Barlow/shameless/
disagree
"My point being, it's not his "inability to commit:" it's his unwillingness."
I'd say it really is his inability. Let me explain...
About a dozen years ago, there was a cartoon in the New Yorker which summed up the current status of "commitment". Picture a swanky single's bar scene with a curvy babe and a guy who is trying to "woo" her. The caption has him going: "I'm not talking about a permanent commitment, I'm talking about marriage...".
The point being that even the highest level of commitment currently available, marriage, isn't really commitment any longer. It's just provisional commitment -- until the nature of the relationship changes. Which really isn't commitment at all. It's faux commitment at best. That holy grail of commitment, marriage, has been reduced to being hardly more than notarized living together.
This has little or nothing to do with personal problems or "issues", it's structural, built into system.
Women who are all obsessed with "commitment" should instead shift their focus to the specific nature of the relationship they desire and try to contract that. Because guys know there's really no such thing as commitment possible anymore, when gals go on about it we think they're just off in la-la land again talking about fairies and unicorns and how they're going to lose twenty pounds. What guy can stand that?
commitment
I completely agree with what you say, its the lack of how to define what a person wants that ends most relationships. It takes a certain amount of introspection that quite a few people find impossible to nail down.! people don't always know what they want themselves or are too afraid to express to their partner what they feel they need. at the beginning of any new relationship people love the desires and individualism of their new partner, but this in large is what we sacrifice for or important others. people are not static and we are all individuals with emotions and needs that change as we age. i can't say i understand my own needs, never mind trying to work out what my partner ideas of perfection might be.? I'm not a mind reader, but sometimes i wish i was.! as commitment settles, we end up resenting the free ideas that our partner may still hold, afraid that these ideas may eventually lead them to other shores. when in a relationship most times people are constrained from searching for what they really desire. the basic point is that relationships are not easy, no matter how hard people try. compatibility and needs change as we go through life, what attracted a person to another at one period in their life may change in 5 years. so what makes a good relationship.?
what ethical self-respect actually looks like
If a man were REALLY that self-actualized, he wouldn't have lead her on by letting her think there was a possibility of a commitment that he knew he didn't want.
Self-actualized=stops poor match of expectations in its tracks.
Assclown=let's chick get attached anyway and exploits the imbalance for as long as possible.
"weakness" as a theory was being nice and offering the benefit of the doubt.
what ethical self-respect actually looks like
But life is random and sometimes what may seem like incompatibility may turn out to be a wonderful relationship. humanity is in it's infancy spiritually. I don't mean belief in a higher a being. I mean we're all basically immature no matter how much we might think we are otherwise. out lifespans are too short for us to develop true empathy for others. its gonna take another couple of hundred years for some semblance of enlightenment to start to develop, but at the same time maybe i'm being optimistic. we might never grow up..!
Shane, I think you should
Shane, I think you should speak for yourself and others like you. They're many men and women who have empathy and are not jerks to people they care about. Neither so they lead them on. If you're quite content with being emotionally stunted and hurting others for your own personal benefit, then leave others out of your miserable existence.
We all have choices in life and yes, we each can act like a jerk from time to time. But some people treat others like pawns. Lying and manipulating them for their own personal pleasure. Those people leave a host of broken souls in their midst.
I know a woman right now who married a welsh man only for him and his family to use her for an American citizenship. She ended up being hospitalized for a nervous breakdown. He has gone on to hurt others as well.
You tell me, should someone that callous and cruel be seen as simply immature?
immature
There is a dark side to both male and female-- for example, the dark side of women indulges in gossip and nitpicking. It's part of a female's maturation from girl to woman to learn not to indulge in those things and to come from a place that's respectful of one's friends, family and partner. The same could be said for the male tendency to polygamy. Any male that says it's more natural to be polyamorous than mono-amorous is a sensualist and needs to mature. Being "unwilling" to be faithful suggests a temperamental 3 year-old throwing himself on the ground because his mother won't buy him a cookie.
Whether or not a man is an asshole or capable of monogamy really just relates to his level of maturity.
Reply; Scarlet.
I don't know that a man who is directly and openly dedicated to both the concept of, and engagement in, physical polyamory (if not also mental/emotional), is appropriately comparable to a tantrum stricken toddler that looks as if they're trying - and failing; hilariously, I might add - to angrily breakdance the "worm", rather than to the shortsighted primate antecedent they seem to be channeling as their sexual rolemodel. Instead, of course, of maintaining the kind of respect, admiration, and gratitude, they should really be showing to the individual person who is, themselves, [supposedly, hopefully] dedicated to him; mind, body, and soul . . . at least enough so to the point of actually entertaining/putting up with his stupid argument in defense of his belief in the underrated value, to women in relationships everywhere, of exploring HIS interest in finding HER a group of secular sisterwives/sistergirlfriends.
Big answer is NO! Hey,
Big answer is NO! Hey, someone I know who first read the title took it a little too literally...Lol.
Thought you might like to know
I just uploaded a post partly inspired by yours.
The plural of anecdote is not data
It never ceases to amaze me how when men say "women ____" it's inevitable that one of them will think you're talking about her, and want to make a semi-big deal out of it.
Yes, there is a sense in which all generalizations are lies, but those who deal with generalizations all the time realize this and take it for granted. No big deal.
Given Jen's last name and her picture, I'd say she's from that small portion of the population for which the "chicks dig jerks" statement is least likely to apply, for a variety of reasons which I won't go into. If she directed her observations at the behavior of other women she might find more support for it.
It's certainly true that if one visits the sites and blogs of PUA's (Pick Up Artists), "the community" (as well as other men who think about these things) is very convinced of the general veracity of the statement, and they make the premise an integral part of "game". Perhaps she should peruse their arguments and observations in support of the statement rather than thinking the one datapoint which she represents makes a convincing refutation of it.
bad boys vs. gentlemen
There can not be the slightest doubt that many women, especially young women, are heavily attracted to 'bad boys'. This is because men who are 'bad', exude at least some strength and confidence.
Of course, the Gentleman, a man who knows what he wants in live, and follow his life mission no matter what, will always win over the average bad boy.
This sums it up:
http://www.ultrafeel.tv/sex-why-nice-guys-dont-have-any/
Definition of an asshole
Salut Jen,
"they've never been Tucker Max mean to me."
This definition of the asshole bothers me. If a psychopath treats you like a princess, he still is a psychopath.
There is little scientific data on this subject, because it is not associated with any obvious social problem (with the notable exception of domestic violence), but many women are indeed attracted by assholes and get hooked by them.
There is inumerable anecdotal evidence for this, both in the medias and in real life.
However, women differ widely in their sexual preferences (I first wrote "wildly", which was incorrect). I believe some women are exclusively attracted to jerks. Others are first attracted to them when they are young, but learn from experience to choose nicer men, and still other women just don't find them attractive and are very careful to avoid them.
To understand why (some) women are attracted by assholes, you have to think in evolutionary terms.
J'ai vu dans ton papier que tu avais étudié en France. J'ai fait une école de journalisme, ici, en France.
I'm interested in psychopathy, and one of the most stuning fact about this disorder, is women's attraction for psychopaths.
Bonne continuation
And men, They wanna have
And men,
They wanna have fu-un.
Oh, men
Just wanna have fun.
class privilege
Are you at all aware of the ugliness of the class privilege that you display with things like "surprise visit you in France while you were studying abroad"? With whom, precisely, do you expect that to resonate? And what do you think about the vast majority of people with whom it does not?
Ugliness? Yeah, it sounds a
Ugliness? Yeah, it sounds a little silly, and not something that I've experienced, but you know, people do get scholarships to study abroad, and really, who cares?
Buzz off! Do you know there
Buzz off! Do you know there are a lot of cheap ways to get to and travel around Europe. Besides, you have a lot of nerve judging people. So what if someone has more money or travel experience. Don't' be so narrow and prejudiced. All people have value and things to offer.
missing the obvious
Most of the commenters and data suggests that this phenomenon is skewed toward younger women. I suspect this tendency is also skewed more specifically toward ATTRACTIVE young women.
Could it be that this slice of female demographic is so used to being pandered to and put on a pedestal by males of all ages, that they develop an aversion to niceness? The allure of a bad boy is that he doesn't give a f*ck. He doesn't supplicate and he won't put you on a pedestal for something that you didn't even earn (being young and attractive).
I suspect that women who are not inundated with male attention--most of which will be unwanted--especially early on, do not develop this attraction to bad boys. When left to their own devices, women seem to calibrate their attraction toward men who are display traits consistent with responsibility and genuine kindness along with self-respect. And of course the flip side is that many men will reject these women for not being young and hot. And so the cycle continues.
Not so obvious
No...in 50 years of observing people (at least half of whom are women) most women (I would say all but that's too much of a generalization) young, old, hot, and not-so-hot, need the bad boy to make their hearts go pitter-pat.
Even if it's just the cheating fling the day before they marry Mr. Nice.
Quite frankly I'm surprised more men do not simply opt to be bad men. Why bother being a good man? The good woman you're about to marry will still bed the skankiest man you know, either before the wedding or after. Or say you find the gal who is older, wiser, and settles to be bored by you? She's still going to make you pay for all the hurts she suffered for her bad choices. Push you around to exercise the self-power she abdicated for the bad boys she let use her.
A woman's first reaction upon discovering a good man is how to use him, while she waits and dreams about Mr. Bad man.
Women no longer respect themselves, or good men.
Agggh, nothing's sexier than
Agggh, nothing's sexier than broken French. Good or bad guys:
"J'ai vu dans ton papier que tu avais étudié en France. J'ai fait une école de journalisme, ici, en France."
Agggh, nothing's sexier than
Agggh, nothing's sexier than broken French. Good or bad guys:
"J'ai vu dans ton papier que tu avais étudié en France. J'ai fait une école de journalisme, ici, en France."
Too Bad
Do you know how much this pisses off the good guys?
Not a bit of sympathy for the women who marry these bad boys.
Maybe they should have tried using their frontal-lobe.
What a concept!
And they accuse guys of thinking with their d**ks?
Go figure.
Anyone research the most obvious reason most women love a**holes
How about, like attracts like? If most women are a**holes, doesn't it make sense that they would seek out similar personalities?
If you think you're better than everyone else and always put down others, doesn't it make sense that you seek out those with similar views?
If you're selfish, self centered and self involved, won't you relate better to someone else just like you? If you're greedy and materialistic, don't you want to be with others like that? If you fundamentally dislike yourself and everyone else, don't you want that mirrored?
Why does everyone assume almost all women are "good girls" falling for "bad boys"? Why not "mean, selfish, self involved girls" hanging with "bad boys," thinking they're beter than everyone else, mocking the "good guys" for being good?
exactly
YOU ARE CORRECT IN EVERYTHING YOU SAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
good being on your day. Thanks for being a decent human being.
The best man of them all?
You totally lost me at "Edward Cullen, the best man of them all..." Really? I'm glad that you at least said "girls" in the title.
Exactly. Edward Cullen, the
Exactly. Edward Cullen, the best man? There have been so many articles about how he's emotionally abusive and a manipulative, selfish creep. That pretty much invalidated this article for me.
Maybe the attraction of 'bad
Maybe the attraction of 'bad boys' is the guarantee that they will not commit and so the 'chasing female' will not have to really commit herself neither. Instead of risky, it might be just the opposite: safe?
Women like the emotional rush
Women like the emotional rush of ...well...emotions. And a bad boy is going to illicit those emotions by typical @sshole behavior - being late, breaking plans, being mean to your cat, forgetting your birthday, etc... These don't need to be positive emotions, any will do.
I guess this means I've been doing it wrong....
In conclusion, being the nice guy, means I finish last, just like Leo Durocher says. Fascinating.
In your case, it looks to me like asshole equates with non-committal, so, what's the difference?
double standard?
I'm wondering how much of this relates to the double standard we seem to have for men and women. A man is sort of expected to sow his wild oats, get it out of his system, settle down and get married. Women in polite society don't get to sow their wild oats, they just get a reputation.
I've had women friends tell me that when they want to be bad, they'll be bad with a bad guy. They can't afford the social consequences of being seen being "bad" in "good" company.
I know that sounds very 19th century, but I think that despite all our social progress, a certain amount of the old double standards still linger.
Grain of salt...
This posting is coming from:
1) A gal in her 20's. Women are more susceptible to the asshole or trying to get something they can't, due to immaturity and inexperience.
2) A Korean American gal, who for those in the know, have a reputation for being more susceptible to being attracted to assholes and drama filled relationships.
I agree that women get
I agree that women get attracted to "bad boys" because of inexperience and immaturity, myself included (have been there).
I disagree it is because of some thrill that women seek- but rather the idea that once you fall for someone or become attracted to someone, rationality goes out the window - your emotions and/or sexual attraction to the person clouds your judgement so much that you completely sweep their bad qualities or red flags under the rug. Attraction is a powerful thing and this may cause us to overlook and/or underestimate mistakes (idealize someone, put them on a pedestal).
I also agree with Janet et al. that assholes come in different packages. An asshole (regardless of gender) could be someone who humiliates you in public (this is an abusive tactic) OR they could be someone who turns hot and cold on you (typical of emotionally unavailable people)- the second feature is equally irresponsible and hurtful!!!!! So, a guy or girl who doesn't call you when he /she says they will or ignores you for a long period of time and then appears -is an asshole as much as the guy/girl who cheats on you!!! But no mention of those smaller transgressions in this article!
As a matter of fact, I've heard that you should judge people by the small things instead of the big things. The smaller transgressions speak louder, especially in the beginning when you are getting to know someone. The small transgressions, the more subtle red flags lead to bigger red flags in the future and more pain as a result if we don't consciously choose to put an end to engagement. This is easier said than done because some women for example, want to be in a relationship so much (societally dictated by gender and fertility age) that we are willing to torture ourselves with incompatible or disrespectful partners.
Meh. Why shouldn't women
Meh. Why shouldn't women have a soft spot for Alpha males? Otherwise rational men have destroyed their marriages and careers chasing after beautiful women despite finding an average woman and settling down makes sense. The bad boys set off the same irrational sparks that beautiful women do to men. I'm sure average women notice the way men get stupid in the head when a beautiful woman enters the scene and starts to interact with them. I'm sure plenty of average women have notice that men will practically "bend over backwards" to help a beautiful woman even though he knows she'll won't have sex with him but the thought that he can get a few points in her favor spurs him on.
But then: so what? So women go a little gaga for a handsome man just as men go a little gaga for a beautiful woman. Most people seem to get to have sex and makes babies anyway therefore most people accept their "averageness" and move on.
this post is just amazing, it
this post is just amazing, it opened my eyes to many new facts
Sad
You know what is sad about the honesty behind these articles? It's that the flame always ceases to be worth the candle. Cliche though it is, there is nothing more sad than grown adults who simply can not do away with the chase, game, challenge, etc and just find peace with who they are as individuals and WORK towards a simpatico relationship. On any front really. And I take more issue with the female side of this because it is prevalent even within their relationships with their friends and parents. Truly, life is not about fulfilling all desires. It is about eradicating them from your life so you can see the truth of your own existence and that of the people around you. That you are enslaved to a mentality that there is some urgency to your own mortality and vain pursuits. There is no ticking time bomb and though your life may seem short, you can be as comfortable as a thousand year old being endowed with all the ancient wisdom of a truly transcendent existence. In other words, simplicity. Do not set your expectations high or low, simply do away with them and understand that in the silence of your own heart and mind lay the key to your happiness and the happiness of those around you. You do not change anything or anyone. Everything grows of it's own accord. It is the eternal reality of our nature. When you tamper with the sacred (such as a person's nature) your ego will forever find itself dissatisfied. The reason is two fold. First, say you accomplish 'changing' this person? Now the game is over. Now what? Second, say you Don't accomplish 'changing' this person? No person is so stupid that they're Not capable of seeing and playing off your hidden desires. Whether conscious of it or not. When two people are attracted to one another, the reason is never apparent. It's best left that way. Approach it as children do to keep the fire kindling but also be aware that you are an adult now and that the fire is not nearly as permanent or honorable a thing as fidelity, honesty, loyalty and respect. Both for yourself and the other. Learn to share and communicate but don't make it the end all be all of whether or not you'll stick around. Life can get dull. It is not your partner's responsibility to change the nature of existence itself. Be at peace with the whole occurrence and talk about how you'll be there no matter what. When it is reciprocated be at peace with that. Do not prod, nag, create a problem where one doesn't exist. You will find your "asshole" is not a knight in shining armor nor a whimpering little boy but a human being just like yourself who just so happens to carry the other half of our equation in the procreation of our species. That should really be enough because life is difficult enough as it is and your closest relationship should be a refuge and sanctuary from it's challenges, Not another atmosphere that adds to the stress of yours or their existence. I blame neo-feminism and modern misandry. The modern male has become a means for society and the reverence for paternal roles has diminished too much. Both men and women play off this mentality and it has even entered into the lexicon of how we communicate to one another. The man takes light of his 'worthlessness' because ultimately he knows it's not true and the woman reinforces the societal insecurity by suggesting it may very well be the case. Time to wake up I say. This 'game' is no longer cute and is oft time the root cause of why families fail. Adults are no longer expected or held to account when it comes to behaving, communicating and cultivating an elderly perspective. It's as though the juvenile has won over the highest evolutionary wrung while people facetiously reinforce these ideas saying, "it's no big deal" or "we're just making light of it". Tell that to the disenfranchised youth who are one parent short of a complete life and see if the cycle is ever broken. Your hormones are not governing civilization in a maternal/paternal way any longer. The age of the dignified woman and man has passed. Welcome to the era of self righteous indignation and unearned entitlement. When your chickens come home to roost and the honorable man/woman does win out, then you will see that even your silly ruminations about your flawed outlook on the opposite sex will be silenced. Your own conscience will convict you and your children will wonder why they ever looked up to their elders. All in all, I pity this generation. It's not cute anymore.
Smartest comment I have read.
Smartest comment I have read. Self-reflection can cure this generation from being chess pieces in an endless and self-deprecating game which leads to nowhere but chaos. I see it in my brother, my sister, my cousins, My friends, even my parents. People can't seperate television from reality anymore. That filter from the two still exists though. And people don't realize that broken hearts in real life can cause many physical and psychological problems. Hell, it nearly killed me when I was 19 when I stopped playing the role of a bad boy, I stole her from another man, and there wasn't a moment that went by where I regretted it. I thought the chase was over, she understood all of my innermost demons and insecurities and vice versa. I had never been so close to anyone in my life, not even myself. But her chase wasnt over, and the bad boy was her highschoool best friend. Of course they didnt work out when we ended. And enlightenment, though it has made me happy and grateful to be alive, has actually led me further away from finding a steady partner, because I am aware of the many consequences of playing and not playing "the bad boy".
Uninteresting insight into the life of a "good guy"
I agree that it was a very smart comment, despite the lack of proper paragraphing.
As to your story from when you were 19: I am your generic 18-year old "good guy" (for lack of a better term). A certain girl has been my best friend since I was 10. I went through a rough patch of depression and abuse and she was the only person I felt I could be open and honest to.
So this spring I kissed her. Yay. How awesome. Two weeks later everything seems to be going fine. Until I find out that she's sleeping with some random douchebag that she's never even mentioned to me.
Despite my (thus far) short life not having been a dance on roses this completely tore me apart. I had built all of my confidence on her, and when, out of the blue, she cut my heart open (figuratively speaking) I felt completely worthless.
I must have been without motivation to do anything for weeks until I visited an PUA (Pick Up Artists) website. I realized that I have to be a dickhead if I ever want to be certain that my children actually are mine and not someone else's.
Needless to say, there were consequences to this whole chain of events. I haven't spoken to her since I confronted her with the matter of her losing her virginity to someone else. And I don't think I ever will.
I believe this has, ultimately, led to personal growth. But I regret that I will probably be stuck with classifying all girls as bitches from now on. Because how do you know the difference between someone who isn't a bitch and someone who is one when even the only people you think you can trust turn their backs on you?
I felt compelled to write to
I felt compelled to write to you after I read your post. As someone who is older than you, I want to emphasize not to become bitter in life based on those who hurt you. carrying around such weight only causes more pain and agony. I am sorry for your pain and do know as you go through life you will experience more. The best advice I can give is to be true to yourself and hold on to your convictions. Never feel bad about being a good person because I guarantee you that those same people who hurt you in life will remember you for that and that is far more priceless than being remembered for being cruel.
If it helps you to heal and to grow, find a group or activity where you can meet others that share your interest. Take everyone as they are good and bad. When others hurt you by all means grieve but don't carry the negative into other relationships. Forgive them and learn from it.
There are many wolves in sheeps clothing and many people come into your life with their own set of baggage. After awhile you will know the signs and be better equipped to seek out better relationships.
I wish you the best in life and know you will find the right person who will truly cherish you for you.
Your comment
was beautiful. I thank you for writing this because it will definitely help me because I deal with a lot of, well, people in the title of this post.
I understand. Its something I
I understand. Its something I am currently trying to get over and work through myself. Its definitely not easy but it will get better I can assure you of that.
One bad person does not mean all women are bad
You thought she was a trustworthy person and reciprocated your love, but she didn't. That doesn't mean all women are like that and all future relationships are doomed, and you need to change who you are (be a bad boy) to get women now. You just didn't see the signs that she wasn't a good match for you (or ignored them), and that maybe she is not a good or moral person. When we are attracted to people, we miss the red flags or the signs that they are not really into us...we instead focus only on their good futures and fantasize about the future with them. And when people treat us bad or don't reciprocate our love, then we assume there is something wrong with us INSTEAD of them, or miss the fact that we just don't have a mutual attraction or are not compatible. Do not write off women because of this, or become an asshole and visit misogynist websites.
Ah, very enlightened post, but...
...but few will ever have the wherewithall to drop all of the material and common pursuits, especially in Western culture and take a long hard look in the mirror. I find as I abandon more and more the trappings of Western "success", I find myself more and more... unattractive to people. I am an anomaly. I am a buzzkill. I am bad for the economy. A stranger. A wierdo. A quitter.
This incessant need for "more more more" seems like the destiny of our species. I, for one, believe it's a product of our success in overcoming the basic challenges of survival. Excess, in and of itself, was once a wise strategy, simply to have extra resources for times of difficulty and scarcity. The primal need to hoard any items associated with survival. Having these items meant having currency, and having currency meant having power. But now, a survival instinct to "get more now, for later" is creating spiritual havoc on people who really want for nothing on a day-to-day basis. It's not food or shelter or safety we desperately search for - it's answers, fulfillment and purpose. So, today we chase wash-board abs, and big houses with granite countertops in the kitchen, and fancy vehicles and clothing. And cool, hip friends in popular social circles. And we eat decadent food in decadent restuarants. And people, to me anyways, just seem so - lost.
A fictional movie characted, Tyler Durden from "Fight Club" said it best:
"Man, I see in Fight Club the strongest and smartest men who've ever lived. I see all this potential, and I see it squandered. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables – slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our great war is a spiritual war. Our great depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars, but we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off."
Society
It's called society. Humans have advanced, i'm sure you'd prefer to live like in 'Fight Club' and become more bitter and twisted about life an people but actually, we have all the stuff we need to live a comfortable life, you don't have to buy it and you could live very simply, people are able to live on minimum wage quite easily as long as they don't spend fortunes travelling the world and buying cars etc, get a cheap place/rent, cycle and go to charity shops, source your own meals and live without tv etc, become superfit by running/home exercising and meditate. If your partner or girl you're chasing doesn't like this then tough. Be your own bad boy by eschewing modern idiots and movements. Be your own mountain of mental strength, help people... Western life is really very easy just people tend to tak ethe easy option i.e. they have been sold the dream of scapism and hedonism at the same time which can be expensive.
Just my thoughts
You put my thoughts into words, well done.
(sorry for posting on an old comment).
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