"Hey Baby" Hurts

Hello,

I'm going to be blown up and destroyed for this comment but how did she dress, out of curiosity? There have been studies done that show that men, in the face of a female they find attractive, lose the ability to fully control themselves. Also, the stimulus from merely being around an "attractive" woman is the same as consuming alcohol and doing drugs (well, same parts of the brain are stimulated, although I would be willing to bet that not as much, though being a man I know that it is some and I've got the scars to show for it). As an example, my family recently took on our teenage niece. She would wear shorts that stopped at her crotch and were so tight I don't understand how she didn't cringe in pain merely by moving. So did all her friends. Same with their shirts. We're talking 12 year olds. Looking around, I noticed adult women do much of the same, as is shown on TV, movies, etc.

What I'm getting at is that I've been wondering if there is a link there. If women didn't feel the need to constantly show themselves off, would men constantly leer and be rude. If I see a woman in baggy clothing that doesn't show herself off, I feel nothing but if I see a woman in super tight clothing I get distracted and can't think, same with all other guys out there. For example, I can walk out into a crowd, spin around and tell someone what type of panties any of the women out there are wearing. Why? Because the pants or whatnot are so tight I can see. A lot of the time there's also even a wedge in the frontal crotch area meaning guys are constantly bombarded with a tease of the female body.

If this study: http://articles.nydailynews.com/2010-02-24/entertainment/27057248_1_pornography-attractive-women-researchers

And this study: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6132718/Men-lose-their-minds-speaking-to-pretty-women.html

Are true, the implication is that men aren't necessarily always in control of themselves (on the lines of, if I shove a shot down someone's throat, they don't have a choice if they want to feel a buzz or not, they just will). Also of importance is how the second study mentioned that on women the effect is null. This means that women literally don't have a clue what it's like to lose control in the face of sexuality. A man can walk by in a speedo and if a woman has to concentrate, she will. A woman walks by in tight pants and thick shirt and it's enough to make a man forget he's working and have his reproductive chemicals kick in. Take off her clothes and he's toast. That being the case, I wonder if maybe we need to lessen the sexuality, or public sexuality out there. There was recently an article about a new line of lingerie for four to 12 year olds. This isn't going to help keep men at their best behavior. I'm not in any way defending bad behavior but I can't help but think that a 12 year old wearing clothing that full out reveal her body isn't also engaging in bad behavior.

When I was growing up I was told that it's rude to stare at women's boobs and bum and whatnot. Of course it wasn't hard at first, to avoid looking in those areas, who'd want to :). Then came puberty. With puberty came this weird lack of control, stuttering, doing stupid stuff, all just because of girls being around. Then girls started wearing shirts with things written right on the boobs. Am I supposed to look away? Or read the shirt. Most women's university jogging pants now have the name of the school printed on the bum. Am I supposed to look away? Or read it? Just recently I've noticed a trend of short skirts but ones so short that just moving exposes a tiny bit of undies and when sitting across from a woman wearing such a thing, should I have to look sideways to avoid looking at her panties which she chose to put on display? None of this in any way says that I should leer or make rude comments but then we have to come back to lack of control. If a woman walks by me in a tiny skirt and I see her undies, might I lose enough control, especially if her shirt is see through and tight and her nipples are erect, that I might do something I otherwise would not? Yup, I'm a man. Of course I can keep it in, being married and getting sex whenever I want but what if I wasn't and was a bit deprived?

We can even think of this on terms of male and female equality and sexism. For example, there aren't near as many females in engineering as there are males. Now, this is most likely just as much a product of a lack of interest as anything else but when it comes to the male perspective, there's another thing. Male engineers are often very serious and work very hard, concentrate very hard and need to be able to. If you introduce a woman into the group, one who is showing off her body with skin tight clothing, as is the norm, the males become distracted (we know this, there have been studies). Now, if one was a male boss and realized this, even unconsciously, would he then shy away from hiring females so that he could keep his team of males productive? An example can be taken straight from my workplace. There are very few women in my building, mostly geeky men. Recently there was a woman who was hired who would be considered very attractive, wears very, very tight clothing, perfume, etc. Wherever she goes in the building men stop working and talk to her or try to. Groups will be in conversation which will stop as she goes by and then resume once she's past. She no doubt notices this and wonders why? Here's the thing: There's also a woman on my team. She wears somewhat but not super tight clothing, always has her hair up and never wears high heels or girly stuff. She fits right in. When she walks past a group they don't shut up and are even more willing to ask her over for her opinion. She's one of the guys. Now, woman A might attribute this to sexism. Because she chooses to be very feminine and not one of the guys doesn't mean she should be excluded, right? Well, what if it's not a conscious exclusion? What if the guys are literally uncomfortable with her around or can't concentrate and therefore avoid her to avoid being uncomfortable. She would not be able to feel empathy because having a good looking male around doesn't change her ability to work (she might feel desire for him but it's interest, not chemicals actively forcing her to act differently and potentially lose track of what she's working on).

I do go on. I hope this isn't offensive. It's a wicked tough topic to talk about. For example, the recent "Slut Walk" phenomena. A cop told a group of women that maybe if they didn't dress like sluts, the levels of rape would be down. Granted the dude should probably have taken public speaking courses. Thing is, though, the biggest argument against him was that the ladies that get raped aren't usually the ones that dress "slutty", they're usually the ones that are the most vulnerable. The shy girls, the ones that aren't "perfect". But this makes perfect sense if we change it around a bit. Lets pretend that the man is an addict and instead of being addicted to a woman, he is addicted to alcohol. Now, lets say that on a daily basis he is inundated with super flashy and "sexy" bottles of alcohol everywhere. For fun, lets also throw in the provision that he can't afford to buy any of them. The more he sees and the flashier the bottles, the more he longs until there comes a time when he snaps and decides to steal some. Now, is he going to go for the flashiest, most visible and strong bottle of alcohol, the one that stands on it's own and is sure of itself? Or is he going to look in the dark corner for the little bottle that no one else has their eye on and is therefore ripe for the picking? The answer is fairly obvious and it applies to the "slut walk" situation. No, the ones that dress the sexiest and wear the least might not be the ones that are victimized as much but the very reason is that they are the tigers and lions, the ones that will fight back, etc. Dude can become obsessed with sexy and take that out on the quite and shy one.

Another point to bring up is that when we would ask my niece why she dressed the way she did, she would answer that it was how to get the boys to respect her. Here she was very, very wrong. It will definitely get the attention of the boys, that is for sure, but it will not gain their respect. Play some video games with them and read a comic, that's how you gain respect from boys. The bottom line, though, was that she was clueless. When we asked what does she expect dressing like that, that guys will look away, she answered that if they look they are a pervert. She mentioned that she would love if one of us waited with her at the bus stop for school. This wasn't possible but I also was thinking probably not necessary. I told her how men work and that the way she was dressed messes with a man's mind and therefore she has a choice. She can continue to dress that way and live with the looks or she could dress a little more modestly (pants not so tight you can see the underwear, shirts that don't show the bra underneath and not purposefully wearing black undergarments with white coverings, skirts that hit the knee or just above) and avoid it. She tried it out and thanked me for the words of advice, no revealing clothing, no big looks and whatnot from the older men. I.E. no more perverts... I explained to her that everything has it's place. She can wear a tiny little bikini at the beach without even being noticed as even the guys wear little bottoms. In public, showing a bit of modesty is appropriate as people want to get along with their business and not be distracted every 5 seconds. With a boy she likes, well, bring it on but remember, he may do things he wouldn't otherwise and if he's truly a guy that likes her, he'll like her more if she's wearing more as he can then concentrate on her, what she likes and does, instead of staring at her ass and wanting to touch her boobs, as teenage boys so want to do (and their older counterparts, lol).

I will end here though it's not really an ending, my wife and I talk about this type thing all the time and there's always something new to add. I must note that I am not in any way condoning bad behavior and men should not leer at teenage girls. I just happen to be a guy who puts way too much thought into things and doesn't tend to follow societies rules on what to say and when to say it.

Let's touch on some of these points:

First, justify: I did not "justify" anything, I offered an observation into actions that, by the way, I do not approve of. On top of that, on several occasions in my post I mention that I do not condone the behavior.

"It is important to be aware when an explanation is not a justification. A criminal profiler may offer an explanation of a suspect's behavior (e.g.; the person lost his or her job, the person got evicted, etc.), and such statements may help us understand why the person committed the crime. An uncritical listener may believe the speaker is trying to gain sympathy for the person and his or her actions, but it does not follow that a person proposing an explanation has any sympathy for the views or actions being explained. This is an important distinction because we need to be able to understand and explain terrible events and behavior in attempting to discourage it.[1]"

[1]: Critical Thinking, Parker and Moore

Second: Desensitization. Someone who works in a chocolate factory and whose family has for many generations will not be as excited, in general, about chocolate as would someone who only has it once in a while. Instead, they would be excited about special forms of chocolate that they don't see every day. Of course, there are always anomalies but we're not talking about those (stilettos). Please show me the statistics that say that "cultures that are very open about their bodies" have a lower rate of rape than their more conservative counterparts? Unfortunately, behavior in many places on this earth goes undocumented but the regions of which you speak are located in the global south for which there are constant reports of extreme violence, rape and pillage.

Third: My example of the alcoholic was a way to illustrate that when perpetrating crime, one does not go for the very shiny and lit up target, one goes for the less known, less visible target. One need only watch movies to see this. In the newspaper, do we see stories of bank branches in the heart of downtown with the most traffic being robbed, or do the articles often speak of branches in more remote locations? I was also talking about folks that are already with problems and wondering if being constantly inundated with "sexy" might compound the problem. The analogy is not a bad one.

Fourth: I did not once say that rape was the fault of the woman, I have no idea how you came to that conclusion. What I did was offer an explanation as to why, perhaps, it's the vulnerable girls that are targeted on a more common basis than the less vulnerable women. I did not justify anything, I attempted to answer the question of why it's the more vulnerable women that are targeted if they are often the more conservative of women, as far as dress code goes, anyway.

If you would like to offer counter arguments, then please, please do so. Women should never feel scared or harassed, that I firmly believe. I have a wife and a daughter. I would also, and tried to, confront the man that harassed my niece but he was not there when I got there and I didn't hear anything about it again. I do not condone bad behavior of any sort but I do not shy away from explanations that may not please someone. I recently heard a comment from a doctor, or read one, in regards to obesity that went something like this: When a family comes into the office and I diagnose their child with something and prescribe medication or some other treatment, they readily accept. For the most part, when an obese child is brought in and the suggestion to the parents is a lifestyle change to avoid having their child end up with deadly adult problems, the result is often that the family is insulted when in fact their child is in fairly serious danger of a shortened and less pleasant life.

No one should murder but people do, on a huge scale in some areas in the world. No one should rape but people do, all over the place. They should stop doing this, there is no doubt about that, none, at all, absolutely, but that does not answer the question of why they do it in the first place. Please, let me know your theories. I will reiterate: I understand that one should not do something but full jails clearly indicate that folks do bad things anyway so instead of running around saying one should or should not do something, it might be more productive to get to the bottom of WHY one is doing something one should not be doing and then analyzing those observations to see if there is a viable solution which can be satisfactory to everyone.

In Young Drivers I was taught that the car goes where the head is looking and that as a guy I need to really pay attention to this because it is normal that I will be distracted by women and if they are on the other side of the road, my car can veer straight into oncoming traffic. I am not kidding in the least and it's true, I have almost crashed a car more than once, as have almost every guy I've joked with on the subject, because of looking at a woman on the other side of the street and losing the ability to pay attention on driving the car.

Lastly: "If men can't focus on whatever their doing simply because there is a woman around, they really need some help." -> Then we're screwed, us men.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4921690.stm
http://blog.oregonlive.com/commuting/2011/08/distracted_driving_study_short.html
http://www.miller-mccune.com/media/sexy-news-anchors-distract-male-viewers-27562/
http://archive.chicagobreakingbusiness.com/2010/08/survey-male-drivers-driven-to-distraction.html
http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/life/blogs/ask-sam/are-women-really-too-distracting-for-men-20100811-11yyp.html

Sure, men think about sex every seven seconds (or every hour, or every day, depending on what survey you read). And sure, men are distracted by revealing clothing (especially while driving). And yes, according to scientific research, men get more stupid in the presence of pretty women and they tend to lose their minds in the face of cleavage and a pair of skinny legs. But is it really that hard for them to keep it to themselves?

According to a poll I carried out of men in my workplace, 100 per cent of them answered with a resounding "yes". Apparently it really is that difficult for the male species to practise a little self control.

"You've got to be so careful these days," said one. "It's a struggle contain the excitement," said another. And a third replied with this: "Unless you're under video surveillance or a homosexual, it's impossible not to stare and sometimes even do something about it!"

http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/men-women-drivers-summer-men-distracted-bikinis-short/story?id=11317033

I could add thousands of news stories, reports, discussions between males and females on the subject, etc. This is what has me wondering if an explanation for the original topic might have something to do with heightened sexualization in combination with an inability by men to regulate the internal effect it has on them. I could of course be wrong and would love to be proven wrong since I'm a guy and am pointing out a fault in being a guy...

So you think it is okay for a 30, 40, 50 year old man or any man of any age to say explicit things to a young girl who is a minor? You are condoning sexually explicit behavior towards a minor. Since men can't control themselves around sexy women, are you saying rape is justified and that molestation is justified as well because a man cannot control himself if he finds a young woman or girl attractive??

What about all of the men who do not say these things? Does it make them any less of a man because they don't harass women? You are presupposing that all men are sex addicts and addicted to women and not everyone one is an addict. Not all men do this so that puts a hole in your theory.

Just because someone dresses a certain way does not mean that they should be treated any different than anyone else.

I dress pretty conservatively. I live in the DC area and I was in a nice part of town some guy pulls up behind me in his SUV starts honking and trying to get my attention. I was all alone--he could have easily snatched me. Do you know how frightening that is to know that you are in imminent danger because a man finds you attractive?

Our genes depict what we look like, we can't choose. Should we all hit ourselves in the faces with frying pans, grow beards and become obese to the point where we are risking our health to avoid harassment? I can wear sweatpants and still get cat calls. I am not flattered, it makes me disgusted that I am not respected as a human, instead I am viewed as a piece of meat.

Do you have a sister, wife or daughter? How would you feel if a man was saying those things to your wife, sister, and/or daughter?

Way to not read Matt M's second comment, Sammy.