So, if I don't approve of modern feminism, I must hate women?
Wow, you're an arrogant, judgmental oerson, Berit. Far more judgmental than the women you criticize.
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Men tend to take the lead in far-reaching misogynistic movements (see also my previous posts on male misogyny, e.g., here). But very many women are misogynists too. In fact, some evidence suggests that on Twitter, women use misogynistic language more frequently than men do. Like their male counterparts, female misogynists are driven by either unjustified hate or contempt for women. The female misogynists that are among the most salient in society today can be described as The Puritan, The Self-Critic, The Self-Loather, and The She-Devil. Here is how to spot them.
The Misogynistic Puritan
Michelle Duggar, a submissive and holier-than-thou housewife and reality television star, seems to exhibit some of this behavior, advocating for complete female submission. In a blog post for newlyweds, she shares advice on how women can keep their husbands happy:
And so be available, and not just available, but be joyfully available for him. Smile and be willing to say, “Yes, sweetie I am here for you,” no matter what, even though you may be exhausted and big pregnant and you may not feel like he feels.
The Misogynistic Self-Critic
Suzanne Venker, the author of The Alpha Female's Guide to Men & Marriage: How Love Works, writes that “Women have become too much like men ... They’re too competitive. Too masculine. Too alpha.” She attributes modern women’s “inability to find lasting love” to their need to dominate and overpower. Women who want to find lasting love, she argues, need to be soft instead of hard. They need to uncover their femininity. She relates how she used to resent having to be feminine to get along with her husband. But her “alpha ways were bumping up against his alpha nature,” she writes. “We were like two bulls hanging out in the same pen together, and there was too much friction.” So, she decided to embrace her femininity. She reports on what she learned in this passage:
It’s liberating to be a beta! I’m an alpha all day long, and it gets tiresome. I concede that I thrive on it; but at the end of the day, I’m spent. Self-reliance is exhausting. Making all the decisions is exhausting. Driving the car, literally or figuratively, is exhausting. It took me a ridiculously long time to get it. But once I did, once I accepted that the energy I exude and the way I approach my husband directly affects his response and behavior, I changed my tune. And when I did, something happened. The tension disappeared overnight. Just like that. Well, almost like that. It was a lot of stop and go at first. First I’d handle something the “right” way—i.e. by not arguing with him, or by not directing his traffic, or by being more service-oriented—and marvel at the response. Then life would get busy, and I’d resort to my old ways. Sure enough, I’d get a different response. So I’d make a mental note of how I messed up and make sure to get it right the next time. Eventually, it became second nature.
When disclosing why she decided to embrace her femininity, Venker briefly mentions that she “had zero interest in [her] husband adopting a more feminine role.” This may at first seem like a logical reason to change.
But her claim that she “had zero interest in [her] husband adopting a more feminine role” implies that she wanted her husband to be the person in charge, the alpha. She clung to this desire, even while embracing her alpha ways in her marriage. But this means that her excuse for changing her ways wasn’t logical after all. Cognitive dissonance may have prompted her to adjust: she wanted herself and her husband to be the alpha leader. Something must give.
The Misogynistic Self-Loather
Hulu’s dystopian television series The Handmaid’s Tale, adapted from Margaret Atwood’s novel of the same name, offers several examples of misogynistic self-loathers. Inside the Republic of Gilead, where most women are infertile, the remaining fertile women are enslaved as “handmaids” by the commanders and their wives. The series follows the plight of June/Offred, a handmaid owned by Commander Fred Waterford and his wife Serena Joy. The most important part of Offred’s job as a handmaid is to carry a child for the commander and his wife. During a monthly act of ritualistic sexual violence called “the ceremony,” Offred is shown lying with her head in Serena’s lap while Commander Waterford rapes her.
Serena is one of the story’s female accomplices who actively participate in the dehumanization of their own gender. But the privileged wives are not the only female misogynists in the story. Early on in the story we learn that one of Gileans enforcers Aunt Lydia (Ann Dowd), who trains, disciplines, punishes and if necessary, tortures and kills, the handmaids, is a pro-life extremist who sees herself as saving the women from sin (or, in Aunt Lydia’s words, from “murdering babes,” “orgies” and “Tinder!”).
Selena and Aunt Lydia are misogynistic self-loathers. They have no real power. The commanders are ultimately in control. Yet they side with their oppressors and participate in the dehumanization of their own gender. Why? Their self-loathing is no doubt self-punishment. But their misogyny toward other women is not. Perhaps their contempt for their own gender gives them some semblance of control in an incomprehensible and unjust world. Or perhaps they thrill at inflicting pain on women, periodically pausing to self-punish and rid themselves of the built-up shame.
The Misogynistic She-Devil
Vivienne Parry, a British science journalist and broadcaster, describes her mother as a misogynist of this type. When Parry revealed to her mother that she wanted to study science at the university, her mother responded: “Whatever for?” Parry was taken aback. But it made her wonder: “Why was my mother so against helping anyone of her own gender climb to the same heights as she did? Why was she so loath to laud female achievement—even when the female forging ahead was her own daughter?” When looking at the past through her contemporary lens, the answer to her question turned out to be terrifyingly simple, she writes: “I fear my mother was a misogynist.”
According to Parry, female misogyny is even more prevalent today than in her mother’s day. Male misogyny runs rampant in today’s society. But, as Parry points out, female misogyny can be even more toxic. According to Parry, “when there are so few women at higher levels, many of them think they must behave like a tigress, using every weapon at their disposal to protect their position against other ‘sisters.’”
So, if I don't approve of modern feminism, I must hate women?
Wow, you're an arrogant, judgmental oerson, Berit. Far more judgmental than the women you criticize.
Nowhere does the post talk about feminism, let alone modern feminism.
So, no. But if you hate women, then you are a misogynist.
But if you have any disagreement with the views of a modern feminist, even a small one, you'll be said to hate women, even if she phrased it differently, so, yeah, Kelly.
If you like other women despite a difference of opinion, that's still defined as hating women and misogyny.
No, this post isn't about feminism.
It's about female misogynists, women who hate or have contempt for women.
You can be a feminist and hate women (say, women who embrace their femininity with pride and self-confidence).
Let's get back on track and have a serious discussion about this issue.
Your point is orthogonal to the point of the post.
The original commentator's point was: So, if I don't approve of modern feminism, I must hate women?
You conveniently turned that around by saying: You can be a feminist and hate women.
Given that you have a doctorate in philosophy, I'm assuming you know what you did there......but to be explicit: do you believe that one can disapprove of modern [left-wing/progressive] feminism and not be a misogynist?
this is from so long ago but my god is it funny. just because you dont like modern feminism doesnt mean youre a misogynist. maybe you believe in equality and not equity. thats fine. being a misogynist means you have hatred for women. lots of feminists can have a deeprooted hatred for women and lots of non feminists bear none of that. your definition of both misogyny feminism show to me that you don't know the textbook definiton of the words. maybe if you read them you'd realize nobody is calling you that. shut the fuck up.
Yes, since feminism is the movement for equality, if you dislike feminism, you don't support equality = don't believe women are equal = disliking/hating/fearing women.
You're not Humpty Dumpty. You don't get to decide what words mean.
LOL
I can have no respect for a misoynistic so called woman or one that supports a misogynist dictator. I feel disgust when i speak to such faux women
I don’t see them as faux women. Majority of my friends growing up as I got older were men and they were more creative and kinder to me than the women were.
LOL. Real feminists disagree with each other. And you seem to think, like incels and 'nice guys' that all feminists think alike. Try talking about a specific case with a specific feminist. We don't think in lockstep, honeycakes, but the current crop of neofeminists are more collaborators than real feminists, imo. No, being a sex worker or a SAHM is not 'empowering' since those are the only 'jobs' men thought we should have! And no, sorry, not sorry, a transwoman is not and never will be a woman, and there is no 'science' that says otherwise. Allowing men with functional penises into what little safe space there is has proven to be disastrous for women. The neofemimists are siding with men against other women. How can a feminist be OK with groups like the Degenderettes threatening to rape and kill women, and think it's fine to force lesbians to 'suck my ladydick' Psychology has not been a friend to women, from Freud's denial of the prevalence of incest and molestation of little girls, to his insistance on 'penis envy' etc. to the wholesale use of lobotomies, ECT, and heavy drugs on 'unhappy housewives'
I['ve given up on women. Women have no group identity, are married to men and give birth to sons, so they side more with the men in their lives than with women and girls. We know that women are more than willing to sell their own daughters into prostitution, deny that their husbands/BFs are raping their daughters, etc. Most women don't want equality. They'd rather stay on the plantation with Massa, in the house. Malcom X said something about how the house slaves looked down on the field hands, and I'd say that is very similar with women.
you go from “real feminists can disagree with each other” to “neofeminists are not feminists because they think differently than I do” in literally two sentences. you just can’t make this shit up. since when was comparing women who don’t agree with you or your beliefs to ACTUAL FUCKING SLAVES considered feminism?
Dreary dearie I said IMO
Which stands for IN MY OPINION.
I wish that More people will bite you when you pass by on the street. because I know you won’t change and idk it just s,eems like the right thing to do
That really shows what you are.
Beyond the help of anyone.
Threatening those who don't agree with you?
So very Nazi, pootzy.
I would hate to live in a world where I could think that AN INTERNET CURSE THAT COMPELS OTHERS TO BITE YOUR LIMBS is a credible threat. Also, “Nazi”? What the hell? Fellas, is it facist to make tumblr-level jokes? It’s on the same level as saying you’re gonna “stomp on someone with your hooves” - completely farcical.
From the way you act (the full sentences, the lameass insults, the weirdly personal way you dedicate yourself to patrolling this comment section), I can tell that you’re at least older than thirty. I gotta say that you genuinely make me scared to grow up. When I think that one day, I may be using my limited life to be a regressive moron like you are, it’s mortifying. Chill the fuck out, you’re an adult and you’re wasting the rest of the time that you have here on being stubborn in a way that alienates all others around you.
You’re disappointing. I thought I had a verbal sparring partner, but you were just a punching bag with the stuffing already leaking out.
When feminists are quick to call anyone and everyone that stands up to feminist dishonesty a "misogynist", they demonstrate their own hatred of men in the process. Anyone concerned with female-only health funding is a "misogynist" Anyone who, like Suzanne Venker, wants to see men and women come together is a "misogynist". Anyone who points out all of the research findings that women better men as often as the converse is a "misogynist". Calling anyone who challenges the feminist orthodoxy a "misogynist" is really a demonstration of hatred for men.
There is always at least one man who simply cannot observe or participate in a conversation about women without somehow making it about men. We can't even discuss wrongs perpetrated against women without a man coming along and whining about wrongs done to men. Well, this isn't about men or misandry. Go look for a post about those things and comment there. #canceledirrelevancy
Seeing women whining about wrongs done to women serves as a signal to whine about other things. Whining begets whining.
Yeah, sexual abuse, domestic violence, human trafficking, all done by women to men . ..no wait . .. still waiting for any proof that women oppress men in any way, Try again. Most sane people judge the individual, not the category,
Wait as long as you wish, I'm not trying to prove anything to you.
Oh yes, women oppress men so much! Yeah, we keep you out of all of the top jobs and political power, right? LOL. Everything has to be about YOU. And how oppressed you are. LOL.
Having read your article, it is clear to me that you are delusional, not to mention the fact that you are a political extremist attempting to cloak your personal agenda.
Have you ever considered the fact that your skewed perspectives disqualify you from this profession? Please consider leaving your profession, so that you can engage in your political activism more directly.
I have a B.S. in Psychology. When I was first learning about the different theories, two of them stuck out to me as trouble. Apparently, social justice is so strong in psychology and sociology that Feminist Theory and Intersectional Theory, political worldviews, are accepted Psychology Theories. The profession itself is polluted. Always assume any "Psychological" position put forward is wrong until you have had the time to review the underlying source / study for veracity. Someone found around 80% of studies have never been properly checked, even those that get into "Peer Reviewed" journals.
Also, I can demonstrate how the APA (American Psychological Association) was political as far back as the late 1960's.
Add a drop of politics to a sea of science and it becomes a sea of politics.
Who died and named you Dr Phil?
No, if you disapprove of modern feminism AND your disapproval extends to believing that your view is the only right one and viewing women who disagree with you with contempt, THEN you are a misogynist. Feel free to make choices in your own life to fit your own beliefs, goals, and preferences.
Yes, but if you're a modern feminist, and your disapproval extends to believing that your view is the only right one and viewing women who disagree with you with contempt, THEN you are a misogynist.
Very well put, DeeBee!
Likewise, hate and contempt are relevant when evaluating feminist misandry.
SweetiePie HoneyBritches how exactly do women express misandry? Seems like men are the ones raping women, harrassing women, banning us from control of our bodies, but what exactly are women doing to men that is so horrible? Are we raping them? Killing them? Nope, the vast majority of rapes and killing of men is done by other men. Hmmm. So again, what exactly are you so afraid of? Women have good reason to fear men. The most common killer of a woman is her husband or boyfriend. The most common killer of a man is another man. So again, why are you so terrified of women? And how is misandry expressed, anyway? Oh, by denying any man who asks free sex we're somehow attacking you?
--"...denying any man who asks free sex,,,"
How much should sex cost?
How much does your mama charge? She would know.
Sugar daddy takes good care of her. Wondering how much you street corner girls get by comparison.
Your only problem is that your mama should have aborted you.
Your problem; not mine.
You are the product of your mother's abortion.
Aw, diddums fee fees get hurt?
At least I know who my father is.
So how is your mother and my kids.
Hope I haven't hurt your feelings.
And make up for the abortion your mother should have gotten.
The world would be a far better place without you in it.
Ever consider throwing yourself under a bus?
Off a bridge?
Can't you do just one good thing in your worthless life?
I;m sure even Dr Phil would advocate you hasten your end.
BTW, fuckstain, my mother died at age 92 some years ago. She would have agreed with me, a post natal abortion is the only cure for what ails you.
Please do so. Make it a merry christmas for all. No one will miss you and everyone who is unfortunate to know you in real life will be glad you're gone.
"...and make up for the abortion your mother should have gotten."
You're being repetitive. You need to display more creativity. You can do better and I expect you to from now on.
"Ever consider throwing yourself under a bus?
Off a bridge?"
Could you show me how?
"I;m sure even Dr Phil would advocate you hasten your end."
Dr. Phil? Well! If Dr. Phil says so it must of course be so. Who wouldn't consider Dr. Phil the ultimate authority on everything. After all he's on television so he can't be wrong.
"...a post natal abortion is the only cure for what ails you."
repetitive again!? tsk tsk
I could not agree with Kelly more. This. article is beyond comprehension. Talk about judgemental and thought police. I'm allowed to disagree with modern feminism and not be any of these things. WOW.
Nobody said that. Did you even read the article? I don't know why people demonize feminism so much. It's almost like they've never met one in real life. Just feminists from the faaaaaar left online who very often are trolls. 90% of feminists will not think you hate women because you are not a feminist. Most women in general do not identify as one. Stop pulling things out of thin air. This woman NEVER said anything like that. You're just getting offended at nothing.
I have never met any feminist in real life who thinks that because I choose not to talk about feminism I am a misogynist, or because I do not think women are superior that I am anti feminist.
And you don't get how you just proved the author's point? LOL! Try a little insight, chicky. Women are such collaborators! Do you really think that by hating on feminists men will like you better? LOL!
I've run into a few women that you have described in the article.
I'm not sure what category my mother would fit in. She was very contemptuous of professional women or women with advanced degrees. I suspect she was jealous, though.
It was my father that encouraged me with going to college and not getting married too early. My mother had a stronger influence with her constant put-downs about how incapable I was!
I raised my daughters in a totally different way. My dad was proud of that. ( mother wasn't).
Perhaps your mother is a bit like Vivienne Parry's mother (as she describes her) at the end of the post.
I think you are right! I re-read that part of the article and that seems to fit.
I would put forth the observation that some of the women who meet the ideals of progressive feminism hate the women who don't, which would mean they hate more women than the women the author would call misogynist.
That's a good point. There are clearly more than four possible categories of female misogyny.
Hateful misogynists are antagonistic toward certain types of women, whereas contemptuous misogynists have hostile feelings toward women in general.
So, there are likely many more categories of hateful female misogynists than contemptuous female misogynists.
Question for discussion: If you only hate, say, vegan women, are you are misogynist of the hateful kind?
Tentative answer: No, because what you hate is their vegan lifestyle. But it's unlikely that you take this to be essentially tied to women (after all, there are many male vegans).
Suggestion: Misogyny of the hateful kind is tied to features of women that you regard as essential to them or as deviating from how you believe women should be.
Berit Brogaard D.M.Sci., Ph.D wrote:That's a good point. There are clearly more than four possible categories of female misogyny.
Hateful misogynists are antagonistic toward certain types of women, whereas contemptuous misogynists have hostile feelings toward women in general.
So, there are likely many more categories of hateful female misogynists than contemptuous female misogynists.
Question for discussion: If you only hate, say, vegan women, are you are misogynist of the hateful kind?
Tentative answer: No, because what you hate is their vegan lifestyle. But it's unlikely that you take this to be essentially tied to women (after all, there are many male vegans).
Suggestion: Misogyny of the hateful kind is tied to features of women that you regard as essential to them or as deviating from how you believe women should be.
Berit, Could it be, what is often viewed as a hatred toward women based on their sex (Misogyny) is really just disagreement with communist, collectivist, eugenic ideology? Since we know feminism spawned from eugenics, and when we disagree with eugenic aims and ideals, it comes off as hatred of women, because we are challenging feminist ideology. How do we bifurcate these from the other? At least in discussions.
How do I disagree with the anti-family death cult mentality wrapped up as female empowerment, without that challenge being interpreted as hatred of women, because women have been hoodwinked into thinking this is female nature, or don't understand it's origin? The topic of gender-dynamics is SO complicated when what we have today is totally fabricated on the academic propagandistic delusion of equality. So I can see how it's easy to conflate ideology with sex.
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