Is there a father-daughter version of these sites?
Narcissism
Maternal Narcissism Survey: Is This Your Mom?
Does this describe your mother?
Posted Nov 05, 2010
I’m offering you a survey today from my book, Will I Ever Be Good Enough?: Healing the Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers. If, like many women, you have wondered what might be wrong and why you feel the way you do, take the survey—and if it fits you, join us in a new sisterhood.
Narcissism is a spectrum disorder, with the most severe end of the spectrum considered as narcissistic personality disorder. A woman can have several narcissistic traits and not fit the personality disorder, but even mothers with only a few of these traits can negatively affect their daughters in insidious ways.
Below, check all the descriptions that apply to your relationship with your mother.
- When you discuss your life issues with your mother, does she divert the discussion to talk about herself?
- When you discuss your feelings with your mother, does she try to top the feeling with her own?
- Does your mother act jealous of you?
- Does your mother lack empathy for your feelings?
- Does your mother only support those things you do that reflect on her as a “good mother”?
- Have you consistently felt a lack of emotional closeness with your mother?
- Have you consistently questioned whether or not your mother likes you or loves you?
- Does your mother only do things for you when others can see?
- When something happens in your life (accident, illness, divorce), does your mother react with how it will affect her rather than how you feel?
- Is or was your mother overly conscious of what others think (neighbors, friends, family, co-workers)?
- Does your mother deny her own feelings?
- Does your mother blame things on you or others rather than own responsibility for her own feelings or actions?
- Is or was your mother hurt easily and then carries a grudge for a long time without resolving the problem?
- Do you feel you were a slave to your mother?
- Do you feel you were responsible for your mother’s ailments or sickness (headaches, stress, illness)?
- Did you have to take care of your mother’s physical needs as a child?
- Do you feel unaccepted by your mother?
- Do you feel your mother was critical of you?
- Do you feel helpless in the presence of your mother?
- Are you shamed often by your mother?
- Do you feel your mother knows the real you?
- Does your mother act like the world should revolve around her?
- Do you find it difficult to be a separate person from your mother?
- Does your mother appear phony to you?
- Does your mother want to control your choices?
- Does your mother swing from egotistical to depressed mood?
- Did you feel you had to take care of your mother’s emotional needs as a child?
- Do you feel manipulated in the presence of your mother?
- Do you feel valued, by mother, for what you do rather than who you are?
- Is your mother controlling, acting like a victim or martyr?
- Does your mother make you act different from how you really feel?
- Does your mother compete with you?
- Does your mother always have to have things her way?
Note: All of these questions relate to narcissistic traits. The more questions you checked, the more likely your mother has narcissistic traits and that this has caused some difficulty for you as a growing daughter and adult.
Is there a Mother-son
What's beginning to bug me more and more is the overabundance of available psych sources for mother-daughter narcissism issues, but not for mother-son. It's starting to feel discriminatory here....
Sons of narcissistic mothers
Good morning,
I work with many sons raised by narcissistic parents. I focused on women and daughters for my first book, but the 5-step recovery model is the same for men and women. I hope that you find this helpful.
even though it seems that way but
sorry you feel discrimination .
the reaspn y most articles and forum discuss mother doughter more than son . is that. most narcissistic mothers see tge doughter as a threat and competition . if there are other sons they usually are the golden child . if there are only doughters usually there are no golden child or the golden child will be doughter will be also competed at times . most cases of sons suffering from narcissistic mothers are if the son is only child . or his siblings all boys . or there is big gab between the son and the yunger doughter . so by the time the doughter. grew up the mother already spread her poison on the son . i dont know what is your case . but its diffenatlly more common for doughters. suffering narcissistic mothers than sons .
i suspect there is also a biological reason that havnt prooven . its just my interpretation . that a narcissistic women. are more likely to have girl births than boys . tgey are immotionally unavailable. . and sexually. low active. what would i suspect will lead to more girl birth. you know how the x and y thing goes . lol .unfortunately. most suspensions about narcissism. hard to research . most narcissists are not officially diagnosed .
Indeed
I feel discriminated too, articles like this make me almost feel silly to even research a subject like this. And all the articles I find, are about mother-daughter issues. they make me feel like since I'm a man, it's supposed to shameful to have issues with my own mother. But it's not. Modern society made it so that we leave our home late in life if ever do, and by that time our thought patterns are already so damaged, that honestly, I think we are ultimately unable to survive on our own. We are unable to make self-conscious decisions, we are unable to take life seriously anymore. She can make us feel like we are living her life nto ours, Putting herself always on the center and being so loud when talking that all you hear throughout the day is her. We might feel like a puppet our whole life, but she always says that she is the real victim, while trampling everything you hold dear. If she does not like what you like, things become insignificant for her. If you don't use your time as she likes than you are wasting it. Seriously where is the difference between a brainwashing handler and a mother, when it comes to your psyche? It's true, mother will give you her love and in return it will destroy yours, all in good faith. That's the thing, she even thinks she's doing right and never regrets a thing. Also, I think that an issue between a mother and son is even more complex because it involves two different genders and I guess, in some form or another, the frustration that the gender gap brings.
brother.
THIS REPLY ONLY COUNTS IF YOUR THE CORRECT MATT. If non of this applies to you disregard it all.
Matt I Dont think im mistaken but if I am ignor this message but I think I know exactly who you actually are in real life. If that is the case your assessment of your situation is seriously flawed, all your mother did do is take care of you and she wanted you to do something with your life which in its self is not wrong. She wanted the best for you for your own sake it had little to do with how it reflected on her although you took it that way. There is a reason im in the position I am in and your in the oposite position and it has nothing to do with a certain life factor you would also try to blame it on. There is one thing in particular that you do that has caused you much woe but you think no one notices it, (we do). You probably by this point know who I am too and how I know you. So let me speak plainly - you choose to do other things, while picking phony people to hang around who only pretend to love and care about you while distancing and throwing out those who actually do since those people actually call you on your stuff.
The majority of sons do leave home still sooner or later. since I know who you are I also know you suffer from narcissism your self and well as certain issues I wont say here that affect your friendships. Plus you really cant blame someone with that kind of mental degeneration for becoming more self concerned. This happens a lot with that kind of disease our mother had. she was difficult to be around sure but thats how it goes. Your the one who is still refusing to pick your life together and keep doing things that damage your body/mind even further.
I could be wrong but there is only one Matt I know that looks up psychology today on his phone and if you are him then you by all accounts were the toxic one in our moms relationship, I know you went though heck when here dementia got bad but that was different. If you are the correct matt. I suggest you stop hanging out with LD and Ca-meal. I know whats going on and what you've been doing with them, because she cant be trusted to keep your secrets from your family/real friends.
Dear Retard,
I feel that you seem to suffer from narcissism as well. This is acknowledging the fact that there are approximately 7.7 billion people on this planet(although a much smaller population speak English). Considering this, the chance of you actually knowing this person are incredibly low and I fail to comprehend why you could possibly believe you know this person. Now, this sh*t is getting a bit ridiculous as you assume that you know this person's issues, personality, friends, mother, and overall life. Like, I would understand if you were posing a theoretical situation but you write as if you are one hundred percent certain that is the identity of this person. I feel bad for Matt in this situation and feel that the only thing you have contributed to this question is a hostile answer and irrelevant advice. But see, the issue is, you are taking a massive guess about this being said person and giving not only false but personally and useless advice. Just imagine how many English speaking, people with the name "Matt"/"Matthew"/any other variation of said name, with psychological issues in their relationship with their mother, in the world. I would also personally suggest to you that you learn how to spell and use grammar correctly.
Based off of what Matt wrote, I would suggest attempting to become more social and begin to do things to want to do. If your mother attaches herself to you, you must cut off the relationship or seek a therapist. To be frank, I would suggest seeking real medical help and not try to prove anything to your mother. It is good to be selfish sometimes.
Note: Good luck with your issues and do not pay attention to people who give sh*t advice like that.
is my mom a Maternal Narcissism
I got half of these questions marked as true, does that mean my mom has it or not? my mom acts as if the world revolves around her and she always says "don't ever leave me as your older brothers did" but I want to live the world and explore, she also wants me to have a certain job when I grow up, she wants me to be a pharmacist and my sister to be a shrink doctor. she wants me to grow up rich no matter what. and she says she had like 3 disorders when she was a child and she says that her mother was abusive and that she didn't treat her well. and she always looks at the negative side of things!
is my mom a Maternal Narcissism
Anonymous wrote:I got half of these questions marked as true, does that mean my mom has it or not? my mom acts as if the world revolves around her and she always says "don't ever leave me as your older brothers did" but I want to live the world and explore, she also wants me to have a certain job when I grow up, she wants me to be a pharmacist and my sister to be a shrink doctor. she wants me to grow up rich no matter what. and she says she had like 3 disorders when she was a child and she says that her mother was abusive and that she didn't treat her well. and she always looks at the negative side of things!
and she doesn't tell me any specific details that her mother was abusive so I don't believe her, do you think she actually had an abusive mother?
Bipolar
You mean Bipolar disease right?
This disease is genetic and the daughter will most likely get it. The daughter is simply engaging in Behavior which is disease related hence being self-obsessed.
It's silly to blame the parents, unless of course you want to blame the parents for passing along a genetically dysfunctional brain.
No, not bipolar
Narcissistic Personality Disorder is not the same as bipolar disorder. Check out the top link to definitions of mental illnesses.
Are you a narcissistic parent
Are you a narcissistic parent yourself trying to play the victim?
Bi polar...nooo
You are in need of further education and perhaps experience in this matter. Sorry, sir, but your take on this serious subject is sadly mistaken.
I know my mother, and I also closely know 3 bi polars. You could not be further from the real story here.
Please inform yourself further before making judgments like you posted 7 years ago....and people can still read them.
Thank you for possibly taking the time to expand your horizions.
Well
I'm a man but my mother has quite a few of those traits listed!
You thought YOUR mom was bad?
Grab onto this:
At age 2½ years, my mother dropped me (accidentally, I assume; I'd like to think she wasn't THAT much of a beast!) on my head, hitting a tile floor from a height of about 4 feet; this resulted in emergency surgery to implant a metal plate in the right parietal section (above and behind my right ear) to replace the fragmented section...this resulted in the loss of 80% of the function in my left arm/hand. Well, guilt does weird things to folks...some get over it, some channel/redirect the guilt into anger and direct the anger at the (still-quite-alive) 2½ year old "cause" of the guilt...ME!
Why else would her pet name for me be "Gimpy One-Arm"? Why else would she claim that I'M the reason she had to drop out of high school, despite the fact that it was HER teen pregnancy, and that there were two miscarriages before my OLDER-than-me-by-one-year brother was born? Why, when informing me on 5/31/08 that that same older brother had committed suicide, did she follow that with the line, "The wrong son died!"? The Wrong Son...second-born son of 3 kids...the only one of 2 parents and 3 kids to finish high school and get a college degree; The Right Son dropped out of high school, got dishonorably discharged from the military, saw America through the windows of innumerable jail cells...had 4 marriages end by way of cheating on his spouse...
Yep, clearly he was the BETTER man (*Sarcasm generator disengaged*)!
Your post of gimpy one arm commenf
The sarcasm disengaged is hilarious. How can u make me laugh on such a sad subject, you are a great writer.
Please write a book and sell it on Amazon KDP. YOU ARE UNIQUE.
You thought YOUR mom was bad?
Grab onto this:
At age 2½ years, my mother dropped me (accidentally, I assume; I'd like to think she wasn't THAT much of a beast!) on my head, hitting a tile floor from a height of about 4 feet; this resulted in emergency surgery to implant a metal plate in the right parietal section (above and behind my right ear) to replace the fragmented section...this resulted in the loss of 80% of the function in my left arm/hand. Well, guilt does weird things to folks...some get over it, some channel/redirect the guilt into anger and direct the anger at the (still-quite-alive) 2½ year old "cause" of the guilt...ME!
Why else would her pet name for me be "Gimpy One-Arm"? Why else would she claim that I'M the reason she had to drop out of high school, despite the fact that it was HER teen pregnancy, and that there were two miscarriages before my OLDER-than-me-by-one-year brother was born? Why, when informing me on 5/31/08 that that same older brother had committed suicide, did she follow that with the line, "The wrong son died!"? The Wrong Son...second-born son of 3 kids...the only one of 2 parents and 3 kids to finish high school and get a college degree; The Right Son dropped out of high school, got dishonorably discharged from the military, saw America through the windows of innumerable jail cells...had 4 marriages end by way of cheating on his spouse...
Yep, clearly he was the BETTER man (*Sarcasm generator disengaged*)!
You thought your mom was bad !
That is just sad.How miserable she must be to need to say hurtful things to her own son or anyone. Hope you have overcome .
Damn, I think your moms worse
Damn, I think your moms worse than mine, but only by a narrow margin. My mom blamed me for our relationship problems and told me that she wasn't able to bond with me because "she didn't get to hold me first." She also told me that I was the black sheep of the family (following an apology, believe it or not). Shes also told me that I looked like her sister (who she constantly claims is ugly, but she would never call me ugly directly). She solidified this by referring to my sister as the pretty one, me as the smart one, and my other sister as miny mom (meaning that she was the perfect one.) She also demonstrated how much she valued my intelligence when she threatened to ground me for doing calc homework instead of watching TV. And when I came to her crying because I honestly didnt know if my uncle sexually abused me as a child, my mother immediately switched the conversation onto herself. (There were allegations against my uncle on the matter, plus I've caught him looking at child pornography on numerous occasions. I would have been too young to remember what happen, however, and there was no evidence to confirm or deny the alligations. Everyone in my family is suspicious of the allegations against him, even his brothers, but no one knows for sure.) By the end of the conversation, I was comforting her. Just like the time I came home in tears after being bullied only to spend the next few moments comforting her about her experiences being bullied.
I have a maternal relationship with my grandmother, at least.
nars mum
My n.m. I find drags me down so I've gone no contact , had enough.
Where in America???
Ok 1st off... I'm gonna go out on a limb & say your mom would say the "wrong son" had died regardless of which 1 of her boys committed suicide. I don't know the woman nor do I know her life so in no way am I gonna speak to her intentions but she had severely injured 2 of her children. Both of whom she bore in her TEEN-AGE years! She might've not physically incapacitated your brother as she did you but he grew up to be a deviant who was so anguished he literally WANTED to die. How child services didn't think to at least conduct a review after your injury is just baffling to me. A clear dereliction of duty by the state authorities. I actually wonder if this could be grounds for a lawsuit.
And lastly, where in the whole of USA is teen pregnancy so disregarded that a girl can get pregnant 4 times before the age of 18? And not once stop to think that she may want to start taking precautions? Cuz I'm operating under the general notion that not mom's 4 teen pregnancies were NOT planned. Correct?
Stepping on the snakes tail
That was my way of calling NPD a myth.
Such people are full blown, mentally ill, Bipolar's .
Everyone knows, Bipolar's will call themselves everything (always less serious sounding) except Bipolar.
You're not making any
You're not making any sense.
My ex-husband is Bipolar (and has no problem saying so). My mother has NPD (and will never admit it). Both illnesses are very real, but they are very different. Why you feel the need to conflate them baffles me.
NPD
What is wrong with being bipolar? I am bipolar and take my medicine conscientiously. I have made many contributions to this world including having an education and raising three amazing children. My mother had NPD and it explains some of the other things that I think and feel about myself. I do not blame her but it helps me to unravel the things that can not be balanced by medication. When I told my mother that I thought I had a mood disorder because I was not getting better her response was to pull myself up by my bootstraps because she did not give birth to a child that was not perfect. I am glad I listened to my doctor and not my mother who could not help herself in her assessment of how my diagnosis affected her. She is gone now and I forgive her but it sure helps for me to know more about how I was raised.
Hi, I have Ultra, Ultra, Rapid Cyling Bipolar Disorder!
So, Hi as I said above I was born with what’s Called Ultra Ultra Rapid Cycling Bipolar Disorder! Meaning I can go from manic to depressed in seconds of each other. But, I always called it happy to sad within seconds after the other. (or hyper then sluggish) Anyways, I’m Bipolar I’m not in denial, never have been I just keep forgetting I have meds I’ve been prescribed that I can take. I’m always busy thinking of others I’ve forgotten my health is important too.
Now my mother has never been diagnosed with Bipolar, but I know she is she also has as many tantrums as have I. But, she’s a hypocrite and in denial and then says everything is my fault it I look at something she screams at me for going into her space that has the very thing I need to make something for her. As a person with bipolar, my mother has it, she’s always depressed and bitching about her life sucks and how I don’t have a job, but I’ve been trying to get a job for years, I’ve asked help for years, nobody helps me. I learned how to make a resume online and i don’t know how to apply and I’m scared of failure. But both my narcissistic parents won’t help! My mom checks off for all the things listed up there you name one thing I’ll give you a story. But, she was also abusive saying I only scratched, beat, or hit you because you are annoying, you suck, you’re a failure, you can’t do anything right, you won’t help me, so basically I existed and I don’t live up to her which is perfect. If I try to help her after that she’s like don’t touch my things you’ll break them! So my entire existence has been Lose-lose my whole life. If I cry she beats me, if I complain her life is worse.
Basically, I’m saying narcissistic mother vs bipolar mother is different.
But, they can possibly have or be both. If you have one mental illness you more than likely have another.
omg.
... you forgot one thing, even though this is list is very very EXACT in my own experience. You forgot the mother's need to find an illness in her child, so much so that she's goes to great lengths to create one. It has always excited and entertained her, to think that I might be deathly ill. She still gets excited at the prospect that I might have something. I also realize that I've been anethetizing the anger that I have always felt towards her, pretty much all my life. When I actually address, in small part, her behavior, she weeps and wails and wants to be hugged. It's more than bizarre. I know it'sher own childhood that torments her, but unfortunately, she only takes it out on her daughter, not her two older sons.
I thank you so much for creating this list. At first it hit me, pit of the stomach, and now, I (very) unfortunately realize that I'm "not alone" and that others have had to lug this burden around. It would be nice if it stopped now. Lately I've taken different tacts with her, and in my life, and feeling better about it all. I shall look forward to reading your book Karyl, and I'm pretty certain already, that I should just go ahead and pour out a heartfelt THANK YOU before I even read it.
So, THANK YOU.
XO
re:omg
My mom also gets excited, but in a different way. She gets off when I screw up, then all of a sudden I am hot news. Wtf? Biomom and I may share similarities, but she has to make herself look good, while undermining and invalidating her biodaughter, me, when I do do good. How screwed up is that? She is only interested in gossip and the most recent, juicy news about me or anyone else. A regular jane that actually moves beyond her mindfuck games and moves foreward without disinterests her. Well, guess what? I am tired of being without, she doesn't give love unless there is something in it for her, she never gives love just to give it. And she has let me know plenty of time that I SHOULD earn it. But all she does is hold out promises of affection to renig them. So I have given up. My mom does get off on making other people sick. It's the only way the bitch can have what she calls 'power." It has gotten to the point that I have no choice but to go NO CONTACT with her, for my own safety and health. My mom is the kind of person that will convince you you are effed up, steal who you are from you as her own, deny you any kind of love, never to give it back. That makes her sicker than me, although my mental, emotional, physical and psychological health has taken a nose dive lately. Makes you wonder who is who, as she pathologizes me. Well, now it is my turn to pathologize her. It is my pleasure.
April, thanks... You know
April, thanks...
You know what's almost as sick as what I described?
My dad divorced her oh, I want to say about 1982-83...20 years of hate for each other, but they kept the marriage together "so the kids wouldn't be traumatized (*Insert under-the-breath comment of "Bullsh*t!" in the middle of fake sneeze, like Scott Evil in the Austin Powers films*)". Dad remarries...Mom gets ticked and claims Jackie's son/my step-brother is actually my HALF brother; we're not going to let some stupid little FACTS get in the way now, are we? You know...like step-brother already HAS a dad, has had him since he was born; you know, STUPID crap like that!
Well, my dad died of a heart attack Feb. 1993, while he's still married to Jackie...Mom wants me to get a copy of the will so her lawyer can overturn it and give HER the widow's benefits; I deliberately dawdled and delayed until the statute of limitations ran out and there was no CHANCE of her getting her grubby mitts on Jackie's well-deserved benefits.
BOY that felt GOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!
Oh yep yep... other people´s failures are like her life blood
Yep, yep, she thrives on bad news. Her favorite stories are about other people´s failures - people who are supposed to be her friends!! Then later I see her being so sickly sweet to their faces.... Oh, and she was just concerned about them, that´s why she would gossip. But was she offering any help or advice? definitely not, just judgment. I used to wonder if she loved them or hated them. Now I see it wasn´t either way, it was all about how they made her feel better about herself.
When her friends are doing well, you either don´t hear about it (this is the most common thing), she describes their experience with a patronizing tone, or she insinuates her own jealousy by making awkward comments about all the reasons that couldn´t have happened to her... you know, because of your father, or this town, or her job... never her choices.
Relief
It brings much relief and confirmation that I am not an over-emotional self-center person (as my mother would say) who believes their mother's actions and behaviors are far from normal, kind, healthy, or loving. I have seen and heard my own childhood/adult experiences through a combination of many stories and posts shared on this topic, including your own. Thank you for sharing.
Understanding
It's crazy, reading all of these comments and taking this quiz has made me finally feel I'm not crazy. There were only three I answered no to in the quiz. As nice as it is to not feel alone. It's kinda sad. I only found out about NPD because my mom came up with the revelation that her mother was narcissistic. So in an attempt to understand my mom more, I read up on the subject. And I was actually nauseated to realize my mom had all of the traits herself. It was crazy. I remember my first thought was I'm not crazy and does anyone else realize she is actually the narcissist. After a few conversations with my aunt I realized everyone in my family realized this, maybe not exactly calling it NPD, but they had all learned to just let her talk and to not respond or defend their point of view because it would only feed the flame. And then I realized grow up I saw signs of this. Many times family members would react to her behavior by saying she was going too far,usually referring to her "disciplining" me or my sister, and once she snapped back they never continued to engage. I used to be frustrated when I realized that my mother had NPD, because I didn't see why no one had "fixed" or "corrected" her behavior. But I realize now that there isn't any correcting. The only thing that I recently found out works is not responding. It won't stop her. But it kinda short circuits her. I did it for the first time this thanksgiving, and I was amazed and extremely pleased and a little amused. She just kept repeating the sentence over and over again, I could just see her brain going "this is supposed to hurt her, this is supposed to make her react, she is supposed to try and defend herself so I can go into a rage and blame her for the fact that I actually hate myself. Why won't she respond!?"
After a moment it got kinda creepy because it was like she just couldn't stop and the moment for her to make her point had passed so it was weird. It was then I really 100% without a doubt finally saw her, with out the shield of NPD. And the fact that it was a mental disorder was finally in plain view. The feeling of finally having power was so strong, that at that moment I realized I could handle her until I am able to move far far away.
I always felt the need to defend myself. Im not a confrontational person (which made dealing with my mother horrifying), but as I've gotten older I do defend myself to misconceptions. It doesn't happen often or even on a serious scale, except for with her. I didn't like the feeling that she was making me her little b#tch by saying whatever she wanted,when she wanted, because I couldn't react. The feeling of finally realizing not engaging her is basically how I get my power back was just too strong not use that method again. She's dealt with me defending myself which sets her off for 28 years now. I hope I will be long gone before the figures out how to provoke a reaction from me again. Because she doesn't stop when I don't react, it's just like none of her punches land.
I do wonder how would a therapist know that a client has NPD if they are masters at portraying a false image of themselves.
So that's why....
I could have totally written your post as my own.....can relate so well. I have a NPD brother as well...holidays are SO much fun! I always knew something was not right with them but did not have a name to attach to it and felt guilty or judgemental for thinking something was different. Only growing wise in my years have I learned that my instincts were correct and healing began. Thank you for sharing.
That's something different.
That's something different. See Munchausen syndrome.
I think your mother may have
I think your mother may have something called Munchausen's by proxy. Very hard on the children!
Some people will actually poison their victims subtly to keep them ill. I am not a psychiatrist though, just someone who reads a lot. Feel free to correct me if you know differently.
so true
this is how i figured that my Mil is narcissist when i wanted to research why she keeps faking her inlessess . i found. something called factitious . where the person fabricates an ilness or an injury . then i found factitious proxy where they creat ilness or injury on the person they give care . then i remembered. her sone who had kidny falior. as a kid . he is th golden child . he always had new medical issues from ears to throut . then i found articles about narcissism witch was exactly discribing her one on one . i do believe that fictitious is also part of tge narcissism just like pathalogic lie.
You described my mother and
You described my mother and my relationship when I was 20. The first few boyfriends I had in my early dating years were exactly like my mother. The boyfriends knew what traits to seek and I was it, low self-esteem, eager to please. Conversely I subconsciously knew going into the relationship that this was a man I was not going to have any problem controlling and manipulating. I learned during my childhood how to make a narcissist putty in my hands. It was all a sick game to me.
Back then there was no Internet and the self-help books on narcissists were few and far between. I did find one book that became my bible, "Toxic Parents", which I am sure in now quite dated. I have healthier relationships with men and learn to bolt much earlier as I can recognize the narcissism signs early. I do think that many boys are raised to be a little self-centered and needy through mothers who enjoy babying them and making them dependent. This is why some men have some real trouble in the dating world as they age, and also can't seem to do a load of laundry or clean their home.
Reading it now
Isn't it sad...just picked up the book recently and I'm wiggling my way through it...to give an example, my mother got fired from her job (of course it was someone else's fault...she even sued) and has called me throughout her unemployment for advice on what wine to bring to a ladies networking night, how to prepare for the interview, 17 phone calls about the interview and 'tell me how good I am' via indirect questions, a facebook post about getting the job which was vague to everyone but me and 3 phone calls last night because she starts the job today...she also once called me from a hotel room saying the airline had lost her luggage, there was a Khol's across the street and she had a meeting in the morning and all she had was a pair of jeans...so, what did I think she should do. ? I no longer enable my mothers illness, but that hasn't stopped her from seeking it out (okay, I may occasionally fall into a hole) Supply. Demand. Did I mention that she failed to acknowledge both my college and grad school graduations? She also threw out my Passport after I came back from a course in Ireland that I had paid for. She wouldn't admit to throwing it out, but she did say, "I don't see what the big deal is. You don't need it now."
Ugh, as a therapist, I'm reading the book also to look for constructive ways to help my clients overcome the effects of neglect they felt in childhood...why is it that some folks can hold onto to good feelings and build self-esteem and other folks are forever seeking out a new host to play parasite to? How do you help them develop their own internal supply of love? I suppose thats the trick of narcissism...you don't 'fix' Axis II...permanently broken, move on. ?? Really?
A related perspective
I read through the list, substituting "wife" for "mother", and (not surprisingly) she met a lot of the criteria. I know it's tied to her childhood, but I feel like she needs to hear it from a professional rather than me, so she won't ignore it. Doubt any change now will saave our marriage, though. I can't feel anything anymore for her.
Oops
Forgot to include my main point, which is that this concerns me about the futures of our two kids.
Considerations
I´m really sorry to hear that. You have reason to be worried. I would talk with a counselor yourself to figure out your options and what is best for you and the children. As many psychologists say, it´s extremely difficult for a narcissist to change, even with help.
My Narcissistic Mother
My mother meets every single one of your Narcissistic Mother questions.
I am 58 years old, my mother is now 76 years old, and she is STILL trying to bludgeon me to bits with her hate. About 3 weeks ago she sent a 60+ page hate letter to me, telling me every single thing that she sees as "wrong" about me, going all the way back to my earliest childhood. She did the same thing 28 years ago, when she sent me a 50-page hate letter. She did this, with NO PROVOCATION, either time. This time around, she sent a copy of her hate letter to her sister, my aunt, presumably because my aunt and I have grown close over the past several years, and my mother must have thought that she could make my aunt hate me, too, with her hateful letter. But her horrible letter had the opposite effect on my dear aunt, who happens to love her two very imperfect grown children, UNCONDITIONALLY, generously, and with no strings attached. My aunt was appalled by the letter. She wrote and told my mother so, sent a copy of her classy letter to me, and then, my aunt declared that my mother is no longer her sister.
My mother tried to gas us all to death when I was 12, shortly after her marriage to my multiple-personality father came to a violent end. She tried several times with the gas, but could not figure out how to override the safety shut-off valve on the whole-house gas furnace. When my mother confessed to me that she had been putting out the pilot light and turning the thermostat all the way up, hoping to kill us all as we slept in our beds, she said, "I brought you all into the world, so I have the right to take you out of it. And life is so horrible, I would be doing you all a favor by killing you."
I was the eldest of 5 when my mother made that confession to me. I had insomnia a lot, after my parents' marriage ended, so I would be lying in bed awake, notice the house was getting very cold, and that the furnace wasn't coming on. Finally I wouldget out of bed, go look at the thermostat, and find it turned all the way up past 90. Then I would go look in the utility room and see that the pilot light was out, so I would wake my mother up so that she could relight the pilot. I thought the pilot light was going out all by itself, and that one of my much-younger siblings was trying to warm the cold house by turning the thermostat up as high as it would go.... this happened several nights, maybe a half dozen times, maybe more, in the winter of 1965-66. I never would have imagined that my mother was trying to gas us all to death, until the day she told me she "couldn't live with the secret" anymore, and she couldn't think of anyone esle to tell, she said, besides me.
Then my mother warned me that if I told anyone what she had done, she would go to prison for the rest of her life, and the 5 of us kids would go to 5 separate foster homes and never see each other again. To my 12-year-old mind, this was a fate worse than death! So, I did not tell.... But I went to bed every night and lay there in fear that she would do it again, and succeed this time. I went to school every day, exhausted from all the sleepless nights, and worried that while I was gone my mother might snap and kill my 4 pre-school siblings... (I was the eldest by 7+ years).
Every day on the school bus my dread would grow as I got nearer to my house. I would home from the bus stop, visualizing in my mind, that when I went inside my home, I would find my whole family dead. I always would stand outside the back door and wait and listen, afraid to open the door and go inside. I would wait and listen until I heard at least one of the younger kids laugh or cry or yell out... just hearing the tv wasn't enough, she could have left it turned on..... every day, when I would finally hear one of my siblings make a sound that let me know they were alive, RELIEF would flood over me, and I would open the door and go inside.
My mother had been a mostly indifferent mother toward me prior to this time, only occasionally doing or saying something that was outright very hateful towards me. But, beginning with the day that my mother sat me down and made me her personal private confessor of her terrible murderous secret.... FROM THAT DAY ON MY MOTHER TREATED ME LIKE SHE ABSOLUTELY HATED MY GUTS.
I am 58 years old, and in many ways, despite my very high iq, I still feel like I am stuck at 12 years old. It has only been in recent years that I have told my ancient secret... and been BELIEVED. People don't like to believe that a mother would try to kill all her children, even though, sadly, horribly, you see these stories on the news all too often. I cannot watch the news or read newpapaers, because of these stories. It brings it all back, when I do, and I feel like it is happening all over again, right NOW.
Lynda
Narsasistic mother
Lynda, I realize that your comment is almost six years old, but I feel as though it could have been written by me. I am sorry for what you have been through. My mother did not try and gas us. I don't really understand why your mother would do that. Wouldn't she have died too? It seems by dying she would have missed a great opportunity to play the part of the victim or martyr. My mom prefers to do things the could (and has) cause illness or injury to the rest of us. I am 60 years old and only one time did I allow my parents take my children to admusment park alone. I was worried sick the whole time, but things went well and the kids had a great time. I have grandchildren that I babysit a lot and I take them to see their great grandma, but I would never dream of letting them be alone with them.
WOW
This is an absolutely phenomenal story Lynda. I hope sharing your experiences in recent years has had healing effects.
My Narcissistic Mother
My mother meets every single one of your Narcissistic Mother questions.
I am 58 years old, my mother is now 76 years old, and she is STILL trying to bludgeon me to bits with her hate. About 3 weeks ago she sent a 60+ page hate letter to me, telling me every single thing that she sees as "wrong" about me, going all the way back to my earliest childhood. She did the same thing 28 years ago, when she sent me a 50-page hate letter. She did this, with NO PROVOCATION, either time. This time around, she sent a copy of her hate letter to her sister, my aunt, presumably because my aunt and I have grown close over the past several years, and my mother must have thought that she could make my aunt hate me, too, with her hateful letter. But her horrible letter had the opposite effect on my dear aunt, who happens to love her two very imperfect grown children, UNCONDITIONALLY, generously, and with no strings attached. My aunt was appalled by the letter. She wrote and told my mother so, sent a copy of her classy letter to me, and then, my aunt declared that my mother is no longer her sister.
My mother tried to gas us all to death when I was 12, shortly after her marriage to my multiple-personality father came to a violent end. She tried several times with the gas, but could not figure out how to override the safety shut-off valve on the whole-house gas furnace. When my mother confessed to me that she had been putting out the pilot light and turning the thermostat all the way up, hoping to kill us all as we slept in our beds, she said, "I brought you all into the world, so I have the right to take you out of it. And life is so horrible, I would be doing you all a favor by killing you."
I was the eldest of 5 when my mother made that confession to me. I had insomnia a lot, after my parents' marriage ended, so I would be lying in bed awake, notice the house was getting very cold, and that the furnace wasn't coming on. Finally I wouldget out of bed, go look at the thermostat, and find it turned all the way up past 90. Then I would go look in the utility room and see that the pilot light was out, so I would wake my mother up so that she could relight the pilot. I thought the pilot light was going out all by itself, and that one of my much-younger siblings was trying to warm the cold house by turning the thermostat up as high as it would go.... this happened several nights, maybe a half dozen times, maybe more, in the winter of 1965-66. I never would have imagined that my mother was trying to gas us all to death, until the day she told me she "couldn't live with the secret" anymore, and she couldn't think of anyone esle to tell, she said, besides me.
Then my mother warned me that if I told anyone what she had done, she would go to prison for the rest of her life, and the 5 of us kids would go to 5 separate foster homes and never see each other again. To my 12-year-old mind, this was a fate worse than death! So, I did not tell.... But I went to bed every night and lay there in fear that she would do it again, and succeed this time. I went to school every day, exhausted from all the sleepless nights, and worried that while I was gone my mother might snap and kill my 4 pre-school siblings... (I was the eldest by 7+ years).
Every day on the school bus my dread would grow as I got nearer to my house. I would home from the bus stop, visualizing in my mind, that when I went inside my home, I would find my whole family dead. I always would stand outside the back door and wait and listen, afraid to open the door and go inside. I would wait and listen until I heard at least one of the younger kids laugh or cry or yell out... just hearing the tv wasn't enough, she could have left it turned on..... every day, when I would finally hear one of my siblings make a sound that let me know they were alive, RELIEF would flood over me, and I would open the door and go inside.
My mother had been a mostly indifferent mother toward me prior to this time, only occasionally doing or saying something that was outright very hateful towards me. But, beginning with the day that my mother sat me down and made me her personal private confessor of her terrible murderous secret.... FROM THAT DAY ON MY MOTHER TREATED ME LIKE SHE ABSOLUTELY HATED MY GUTS.
I am 58 years old, and in many ways, despite my very high iq, I still feel like I am stuck at 12 years old. It has only been in recent years that I have told my ancient secret... and been BELIEVED. People don't like to believe that a mother would try to kill all her children, even though, sadly, horribly, you see these stories on the news all too often. I cannot watch the news or read newpapaers, because of these stories. It brings it all back, when I do, and I feel like it is happening all over again, right NOW.
Lynda
Lynda, Thank you for having
Lynda,
Thank you for having the courage to share your story. I want you to know that I admire your courage. Always seek the truth. Please keep fighting the good fight.
I believe you.
You have helped me heal. Take care of yourself. Please consider no contact with your mother so you can live the life you deserve.
Lynda, Thank you for having
Lynda,
Thank you for having the courage to share your story. I want you to know that I admire your courage. Always seek the truth. Please keep fighting the good fight.
I believe you.
You have helped me heal. Take care of yourself. Please consider no contact with your mother so you can live the life you deserve.
While my mother never (as far
While my mother never (as far as I know) tried to off me, she made it ABUNDANTLY clear that it was me, The Middle Child (not the two miscarriages that preceded my older brother's arrival...not my younger sister; nope, 'twas I and I alone) that caused my father to get her pregnant.
Still wondering when I'm going to find that time machine that will propel me back to that fateful night, upon which I will assure my being born by getting my teenage future daddy to impregnate my teenage future Demon...um, Mommy dearest.
Anybody got a nuclear-powered DeLorean I can borrow?
Traits of NPD Mother
I am 56 and after reading all of the questions it seemed they were tailored just to my own situation with my mother. Every one. She doesn't take pride in any of my accomplishments and in fact thinks she could do much better (she never worked - I had a very successful sales career - but she will make serious as a heart attack statements like "I could have been a CEO". Really?). She competes with me on almost every level. She has told me that as a baby "I don't think I ever really bonded with you" and blames my grandmother for "stealing" me from her when she actually took full advantage of pawning me off on her frequently (later she used both my grandmother and me to take care of my four younger siblings and has told me, laughing "I just had you to take care of the other ones". She was driving the car when I was standing on the seat at age three and went through the windshield. I never blamed her but she gave me so little empathy when I had to be in the hospital for plastic surgery for a large scar that resulted and would always tell me "You can't even see it" when I would tell her as a little kid someone made fun of me. (If she had to see it she might have to acknowledge to herself that she was negligent in some way that resulted in permanent damage and she never takes responsibility for anything herself). I also think her hands off approach due to her not liking to look at me or it made her even more aloof in her relationship with me. She demeaned every emotion I ever had or expressed, calling me "too sensitive". To this day the woman loves to create drama, get sympathy (which is always because she is dramatic about something that happens to someone else and she wants attention for it - she has had a very uneventful life if it weren't for her kids' divorces or a friend's death or something that really did not happen directly to her). Recently I tried to get her to stop talking to me about one of my siblings and she reacted with a vengeance, threatening not to attend a cruise we paid for and planned for my dad's 80th. He called and practically begged me to apologize to her for being "disrespectful". Crazy person and difficult as the day is long.
To Lynda
WOW...it took your mom 28 years to come up with 10 more pages of your "Evil Wickedness"?
Ol' Girl just HAS to get a different hobby, before there's no more forests left in the world because she needed the paper to detail your all-consuming E-e-e-e-e-e-evil!
But seriously...the only thing that prevents my mother from doing the same is her semi-illiteracy; add to that the fact that her math skills and knowledge of human biology/reproduction are laughingly out of left field. Remember, there were 2 miscarriages preceding my (now deceased) older brother, her favorite...then me, then my sister; but who gets the blame as the kid who caused her to drop out of school because of her first pregnancy (miscarriage #1)?
ME!
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