Your Conscience, the Sociopath's Weapon of Choice

The Sociopath Next Door by Martha Stout, PhD. This book was recommended by to Doctors for me to read and helped me understand who I had been dealing with for the past 7 years. It is frightening to look back and see that my conscience was the weapon of choice and learning of all the other victims and lives he has manipulated the past 50 years. How do you warn future victims? How does one forget the hurt and pain? EGW

Misses the mark. Psychos do have a conscience and emotions, but they don't apply it to other people because they don't perceive themselves as people - they perceive themselves as creeps, and totally aside the human race. You don't apply your conscience to pigs and cows, do you? No remorse for hamburgers.
Another case would be the italian mob, who do have pretty solid and well established morality, but they apply it to themselves only.
Yet another case would be the likes of Michael Jackson - that would be people whose self-image is that of a small child, i.e. someone who would never show aggression or open confrontation, because other people are always perceived as bigger and more powerful (literally - grown ups). So that leads to the development of other skills and ways to handle things in life, like intrigue and deceit.
People conflate the three, which leads to gross misunderstandings - they are different things and have different causes. For instance, so-called successful psychos (some CEOs etc.) would be in the third category, i.e. not really psychos in the conventional meaning of the term (which would be the first case).

I am sorry that there is still so much generalization in psychology to this day. Such people can be quite nice regardless of whether they feel they MUST do so. As a person who does not believe in such a thing as objective morality I recognize the fact that my life will be better if the people I know are happier, since it is a well documented fact that being around happy people makes you happy. And in fact people who enjoy to be around me are more likely to give me things or make opportunities available to me. Is that not in fact better than a friend who is nice only when it makes them feel good to be so? The problem with sociopaths, like all types of people, is that ignorance makes them dangerous, to both others and themselves. Such people try to use others and then throw them away, not realizing that almost all destructive habits lead to self-destructive results. How is that not similar to people who do believe in a higher purpose, which is to kill all "non-believers", or to convert everyone in the world through culturally poisonous scare tactics? Have you thought that perhaps sociopaths are not able to get help because you are trying to force them to be like you, something which they cannot be? You assume that your way of thinking is the only RIGHT one. Well it is thinking like that that puts people down in the first place. Perhaps if you did not demonize the basic brain pattern of sociopaths then they would not need to hide themselves and resort to manipulative tactics. Perhaps they could form support groups too, and realize that such negative manipulation is unhealthy, for everyone involved. Or are these people simply trash to you? Barely worth the effort to form a lynch mob for?

I disagree that all psychopaths are terrible people. It is true that lacking a degree of conscience, guilt and inability to relate, do open themselves to a greater risk of negative behaviours. However, the key here is of self-control and encouraging them to emulate positive behaviours. After all, everyone wears a mask, don't we?

In truth, the rising trend of people without proper clinical or psychiatric knowledge self-diagnosing others, worries me. There are people who are likely to start blaming anyone and everyone, for their own faults and there are many who love to pin labels on anyone who doesn't agree with their sense of reality. I've come across so many people who randomly start a witch-hunt just because of their own "beliefs and prejudices", that it's frightening. And well-intentioned books that warn of the "psychopath/sociopath" out there might flame the fire, that would have far-reaching consequences for decades.

Because what will the public do? In typical fashion, they're probably going to approve the construction of "special institutes" that use "certain techniques" for treating a group of people, who're likely "no longer classified as humans under the law". "Legalized genocide", I'd call it. And what would it have done for anyone? Nothing at all. And what would that cost? Millions/billions of money and lots of wasted effort.

Also, don't most people even have a fluidity of empathy and inability to feel guilt for certain actions/people in certain situations? Also, don't many people manipulate and lie to a certain degree?

A Stranger.........

I don't even know what to say to you.

You obviously are someone, like me, who always sees both sides of the coin, doesn't accuse others unless you have proof and wants to stand up for the underdog.

There is only one real glaring difference in our lives though.

I have been victimized by a Psychopath and you haven't. Before this happened to me I can see myself, like you, responding with an email like yours.

Believe me please. if you were to experience it first hand, not only would you not write an email like that. you would be forever scarred, you would be in therapy, you would be forever changed.

and most importantly you would understand.

Alcoholics drink, Anorexics don't eat, Psychopaths destroy lives. I know you don't want to believe it but just like there are good people on earth. There are evil people. I mean not just bad. I mean pure, pure, pure evil. I never knew evil existed until this happened to me.

i hope that you never experience what me and other victims of psychopaths have experienced.

and worse than the abuse itself is the denial of it's existence. It is so frustrating. it would be like if someone punched you in the face and everyone was denying the very existence of the concept of a punch.

Try imagining what its like to finally figure out that the Father you were never good enough for, who brought you low every way he could just so he could scorn your weakness, who turned your every tiny victory to ashes, and who stood there and laughed with contempt as you unsucessfully tried to take your own life, MUST be a sociopath. Who else could stand over your hospital bed, warned that you may not survive, and scornfully say: "Well, I need to get home and go to bed. I have to get some sleep because I work tomorrow."

Knowing that they have found a strong link to genetic causes for this horror, I can't help but be afraid; to closely examine my every thought, action,a and feeling, asking over and over, "I'm not like that... right?"

And then I wonder, even if I'm not... will MY kids be?

http://jari.podbean.com/2010/11/03/interview-with-dr-martha-stout/ Interview with Dr. Martha Stout, author of The Sociopath Next Door on the Living Hero podcast, November 2010.

I agree somewhat. But I want to clear something up.
Sociopaths are all at varying levels in their sociopathy. Some are the nicest people you can meet, others the most evil; and everything else in between.
The common thread is manipulation. Manipulation of facts, manipulation of (your) conscience & sympathy, manipulation of people's feelings, manipulation of relationships.
This, coupled with a lesser degree of empathy & conscience, certainly turns them into a fearful adversary...and maybe even a worse friend; however, each sociopath has a differing degree of conscience or empathy as well. Some have it to a degree, while others are seemingly void of any whatsoever.
These characteristics compounded (usually) with heaps of Charisma or Charm & beaming confidence...produce a formidable, ultimate foe.

But what those of us who have been hurt by them seem to forget is that they are people too. They are here to attempt to fix their lives (eg: if you believe in reincarnation) just like everyone else. Yet, I believe, it is harder for them. Does that mean we just love and accept the actions of a Jeffry Dahmer or Larry Silverstein or Obama or Bush? No. They should all be tried, found guilty as dangers to others, and eventually executed. BUT, they still need help finding truth. Finding love. Finding hope. Finding faith...and lets face it, very few sociopaths do anything as evil as those listed above.

It is easy for me to care about your feelings & life, and therefore I don't cut you off on the freeway. I was programmed this way. I didn't "earn" that here in this life. I also doubt the sociopath who will carelessly cut you off and look back at you crashing and merely shrug, forced herself to be that way (at least not in this life).
I don't think they have any control over these attitudes...although of course they can control the actions.

I am not suggesting we remain married to, or living with sociopaths; perhaps not, but we must not forget to try to help them overcome their sociopathy. Don't give in to their manipulations, but rather try to help them see their attitudes and conduct as unacceptable (with love).

They deserve our respect and love as human beings just as much as the fella in the mirror does. If you love yourself, and do good to yourself; then don't exclude them from your (wisdom based) good will.

Lastly, I have been looking over every sociopath checklist, test and blurb I can find on the net. Why? I've sadly found someone very close to me to be one of these. But what I've discovered in my research is that although she definitely has these traits (90%), she isn't the only one. I can see some of them in me too. A few of them are pretty much with me all the time, others are only in rare circumstances or happened only a couple times and the rest perhaps I've never experienced; but think about that a bit. Who am I to "judge"? Because she meets 50% all the time and 40% some of the time, while I only meet 20% all the time and and another 15% some of the time?
Read all the lists folks. Don't be thinking just of the one that hurt you. Think of yourself too...be HONEST. I think you'll find we all have some of these tendencies.

It is like the person who smokes a joint once every couple of weeks calling the fella who smokes 10 a day a "druggie".
It is only by degrees that we consider ourselves "better" than they.

I'm not saying to believe them. I'm not saying to let them take your kids to Disneyland, I'm not saying to let them hold your bank account for you. I'm saying recognize what is wrong with them, talk to them about it (if possible) or write them about it, and try to be there for them....ONLY...to help them with THIS problem (not their need for money, not their need for sex, not their need for trust etc). Love. That is the whole law. Love.

I agree somewhat. But I want to clear something up.
Sociopaths are all at varying levels in their sociopathy. Some are the nicest people you can meet, others the most evil; and everything else in between.
The common thread is manipulation. Manipulation of facts, manipulation of (your) conscience & sympathy, manipulation of people's feelings, manipulation of relationships.
This, coupled with a lesser degree of empathy & conscience, certainly turns them into a fearful adversary...and maybe even a worse friend; however, each sociopath has a differing degree of conscience or empathy as well. Some have it to a degree, while others are seemingly void of any whatsoever.
These characteristics compounded (usually) with heaps of Charisma or Charm & beaming confidence...produce a formidable, ultimate foe.

But what those of us who have been hurt by them seem to forget is that they are people too. They are here to attempt to fix their lives (eg: if you believe in reincarnation) just like everyone else. Yet, I believe, it is harder for them. Does that mean we just love and accept the actions of a Jeffry Dahmer or Larry Silverstein or Obama or Bush? No. They should all be tried, found guilty as dangers to others, and eventually executed. BUT, they still need help finding truth. Finding love. Finding hope. Finding faith...and lets face it, very few sociopaths do anything as evil as those listed above.

It is easy for me to care about your feelings & life, and therefore I don't cut you off on the freeway. I was programmed this way. I didn't "earn" that here in this life. I also doubt the sociopath who will carelessly cut you off and look back at you crashing and merely shrug, forced herself to be that way (at least not in this life).
I don't think they have any control over these attitudes...although of course they can control the actions.

I am not suggesting we remain married to, or living with sociopaths; perhaps not, but we must not forget to try to help them overcome their sociopathy. Don't give in to their manipulations, but rather try to help them see their attitudes and conduct as unacceptable (with love).

They deserve our respect and love as human beings just as much as the fella in the mirror does. If you love yourself, and do good to yourself; then don't exclude them from your (wisdom based) good will.

Lastly, I have been looking over every sociopath checklist, test and blurb I can find on the net. Why? I've sadly found someone very close to me to be one of these. But what I've discovered in my research is that although she definitely has these traits (90%), she isn't the only one. I can see some of them in me too. A few of them are pretty much with me all the time, others are only in rare circumstances or happened only a couple times and the rest perhaps I've never experienced; but think about that a bit. Who am I to "judge"? Because she meets 50% all the time and 40% some of the time, while I only meet 20% all the time and and another 15% some of the time?
Read all the lists folks. Don't be thinking just of the one that hurt you. Think of yourself too...be HONEST. I think you'll find we all have some of these tendencies.

It is like the person who smokes a joint once every couple of weeks calling the fella who smokes 10 a day a "druggie".
It is only by degrees that we consider ourselves "better" than they.

I'm not saying to believe them. I'm not saying to let them take your kids to Disneyland, I'm not saying to let them hold your bank account for you. I'm saying recognize what is wrong with them, talk to them about it (if possible) or write them about it, and try to be there for them....ONLY...to help them with THIS problem (not their need for money, not their need for sex, not their need for trust etc). Love. That is the whole law. Love.

I felt a need to share this story. In the need to try understand my personal struggle. I felt putting it in writing would help with the healing. The scars that I have bared have burdened me for years and the personal struggle burdens many aspects of my life to this day.

I am 40 yrs. old and new to this discovery about my mother. I always knew something was wrong, but a light bulb went off over my head recently. I am convinced she is an undiagnosed sociopath. I have always struggled with her behavior. For instance in everyone's eyes around her she was wonderful, a good friend, a good worker etc... Then in the eyes of her husband and three daughters we would sit there at look at each other with cross-eyed confusion on several occasions; especially in times of like when she would receive awards at work such as "Heart of Gold Award". My sisters and I as teenagers would look at each other with "Really, are you kidding me?" looks on our faces. We can never remember a day that she came out and told us that she loved us until we were adults, nor can we remember a day that she did not scream at us.

I remember being about 9 years old when my older sister then 15 became very ill one night. As she woke up in severe pain and vomiting profusely my mother screamed at her for being such a pig and not chewing her food properly. I remember my shock when my mother picked up a piece of undigested hamburger rinsed it in the bathroom sink and tried to make my sister eat it while screaming at her as my sister vomited into the toilet. I can’t remember if my dad wakes around that time or if he was coming in from the late shift at work, but he then stepped in and took my sister to the emergency room. It ended up it was a medical condition that had absolutely nothing to do with the digestion of food eaten in too large amounts or too fast. I don’t recall an apology to my sister, but I do recall her calls to the neighbors, family members and friends and telling them about my sister’s ailment with what seemed like what were the words of a very concerned and protective mother relaying information.
As we move forward through life, she continues with behavior more and more like this… concerned and protective mother, good friend, good co-worker and supervisor, with a heart of gold. To the people who knew her best like me, my sisters, my grandmother (her mother-in law) and my father she was a bitter, evil nasty woman. Along with other evil treatment to middle sister, one Christmas instead of splitting the little money left from the loss of dad’s job among the three girls she took pictures from a magazine and cut them out and gave them to my middle sister with the things that she asked for, she stated to her that she was the strongest and could handle the disappointment of not getting anything for Christmas. I understand now what my dad was trying to do when he gave so much special attention to my middle sister after that when it came to school functions, and events in her life, he was trying to make up for evil doings of my mother.
I began to suffer from depression at 15, at first she played the protective mother with deep concern at the physician’s office as they tried to see what was wrong with me (back then, it was not as common-place). After she got tired of playing the role I remember walking home from summer school with such depression that I could not function, think, concentrate, walking into the house with her screaming at me for an issue that was beyond my control (and one in which I had no idea what was going on with me or no idea what to do about). Dad comes home about that time and puts me in the car to take me back to school as she screams at me “damn your soul to hell” and things like ingrate and caring about no one but myself.

Years pass, we become adults, Dad gets sick, she puts him out (I could tell some stories that would curl your toenails, but I will refrain). Series of events brings dad to live with my middle sister who lived next door to mom, dad has early onset Alzheimer’s has a stroke at 58 and passes away. My mom and new husband collect on a life insurance policy as the three sisters struggle to get the money together to bury our father. We don’t allow her at the funeral and then dad’s brother steps in and intervenes with the harsh calls we begin to receive from her sister and her mother. Dad’s brother develops a deep and abiding disdain for her that 15 years later puts him in a place that he still can’t stand her.

The daughters try to forgive and move on. She sits at the dinner table one Easter Sunday in my home and discusses with my husband that she has been angry at him since Christmas for barely speaking to her while she was in our home. He is shocked and asks why she hasn’t said anything; she states she did, to me. I really don’t remember or maybe I didn’t think it was that big of a deal, but somehow it becomes my fault for not mentioning to my husband what I don’t remember her mentioning to me. He apologizes, we move on with dinner. As we continue my 12 year old begins to irritate my 8 year old and I intervene with my own children in the way that most people do with their children. My 12 year old who has recently been bullying his brothers and a kid at school gets a harsh talking to from my husband and he in turn begins to cry. My mother gets stupid and starts to spew nonsense because he made the child cry. My 12 year old goes to his room, we move on and then about an hour later he comes out of his room fine and life goes on. (The next morning it is you know I love you man, but I can’t allow you to bully anyone, I know, it’s all good, knuckle bump, off to school and life goes on between my husband and son.)

A day later I receive a text from mom to call her before I get home. I call, surprised she lights into me about Easter Sunday Dinner, I defend my husband and she threatens me with social services. She states that I need to worry more about the 8 year old (the straight A student) and how I will be getting him out of jail more than I do the 12 year old being a bully; that I should face it the 8 year old “is” fat and will never amount to anything and that my husband is a piece of crap…etc…etc… etc… I listen to all I can stand, tell her she is dead to me, call her a bitch and hang up the phone. My oldest sister, who was there, defends me to my mother as well as my middle sister who was not. They are still speaking to her, but they get it why I am not. My mother tries to contact two of my boys via Facebook with rhetoric such as “I will always be there, look to Jesus, I’m a phone call away, etc… All the while the 8 year old she slammed hears nothing from her. None of the children know I have a problem with her. I block her and move on.

I lose sleep, battle with knots in my stomach and shed tears, all in all I feel sure I made the right decision in protecting my family by shutting out my mother.

I have a new motto…

“Life can only be understood backwards but it must be lived forward.”---Kierkegaard

Wow! My heart goes out to all of you who have suffered with the pain and madness of a cold-hearted individual, psychopath or not. Let's just call them cold-hearted for the sake of simplicity and so that we don't make everything so "clinical". I am convinced that some people are just deffective, deviant, and rotted inside, plain and simple. And I prefer to run real fast away from them rather than to try and fix or understand them at the cost of my sanity.

I pray that you all find peace and the hutzpah to put it all behind you and move on with your lives. To not do so, is to betray yourself and in that, they win. You owe it to yourself to pick yourself up and yes, pick up the peices their shit-storm left behind. Because to give up on yourself, is the ultimate betrayal.

If you do not manage somehow, to remain loyal and faithful to yourself, they have succeeded in poisoning you with their venom. The difference is they continue to thrive, as sick as that may sound. You, on the other hand, start to slowly deteriorate in a pool of sadness and a horrible, on-going, feeling of devastation that can leave you feeling as if you've been hit with a harpoon right in the middle of your chest.

Empty people like these are what I call parasites, leeches, if you will. I, too, grew up with parents that the only pain they understood was their own. Perhaps that's where my penchant for these kinds people come from? Perhaps. My father was a self-centered man that loved himself inmensely and my mother was the type of woman that would cry at the drop of hat for anybody else's kids except her very own. Huh! Go figure! I'm happy that saying that today doesn't hurt as much as it used to.

It wasn't until just recently that I took a good look at who my mother truly was. Detached, cold, bitter, angry, and very capable of loathing her own children. And yet, she cried non-stop for all the bad things that happened around the world. Whoof! I lived in a world where I was constantly scratching my head and wondering who was the sentimental woman that can resent her kids, destroy an apartment in a fit of rage while wanting, at the same time, to end world-hunger.

I have also had the misfortune of marrying a self-lusting man that lived in his world. Why he feels the need to be married, baffles me. The few times I did see any kind of empathy was when he knew he would get something out of it. And if the doubt benefitted him, he would let me assume and make an ass out of myself.

The worst? The silence. Yes, yes, yes, the silence. With it, he kept me guessing, riddle with anxiety, confused and doubting everything. I'm out of that now and trying desperately to be kind and patient with myself. But make no doubt about it, the damage was silent but highly effective. When I look back, I can see how wickedly calculating and sinister it all was. It makes me sick to know that I ignored my instincts and fell prey to someone like this. He saw a need, a weakness and slowly came in to satisfy his need to play with a good-hearted person.

How do you recover? Slow. You've already been kicked in the face, so don't start doing it to yourself just because you don't know how to handle the flood of rage. Treat yourself as if you've been in a train-wreck, yes a train wreck! And when those feelings of self-hatred start to corrode your head, remind yourself that it is all part of the damage he/she left behind. Don't give in, resist that urge to turn it all on you. What ever you do, be good to yourself, even with the simplest of things.

A bubble-bath, a walk, and clean that closet, yeah, I said it, the closet. I'm sure that's not the only thing you've neglected with all that madness going on. When you're done, have a garage-sale. Keep yourself occupied with things that help you heal and recover. Look for your favorite music, movies and your tossed-away journal. And change those dag-on curtains that must be stiff by now and ready to walk out the door with all of his/her things. Light a scented-candle and hurry, hurry, change the linen so that you don't get a whiff of him/her in the middle of the night. Shred all that mail that's been piling up on your desk and bring down photos that may bring you down and ruin a fairly good day. Go through everything and rid yourself of any and all memories so that you may start anew. And remember, do what's right for you and pay little or no attention to condescending comments or critism---it was you in the arena, not them.

To you all, I wish you the best.

The real sociopath is the one that will try to convince others of what a sociopath is. To cover themselves. And BTW psychology is a pseudoscience, used to convince people they have problems in order to create an economy. You are a victim of this pseudo science, you just dont know. No such thing as a sociopath, unless it is created. Brain damage is real. The pseudo science in psychology is that it is the science of damaging the psychology of a person in a pseudo fashion. BRAIN DAMAGE

We had a sociopathy as our neighbour. Yes, they are real and exist. We became friends with a couple in their mid 20's that lived a couple doors down from us and I don't know even where to start. I watched her destroy all her friendships, marry her unsuspecting boyfriend, after she was married for less than 6 months get divorced all because she wanted a better last name. Get pregnant beforehand so he'd pop the question. Tear apart a group of friends by talking about each one behind their backs. If you were mean to her she would talk even worse about you so no one dared to push her. If they did the consequences were slander of your character. One girl backed out of her wedding party and she all the other bridesmaids against her with her ruthless words. You had to follow her along or be subject to her hate words. Another stood up to her and the next thing she's telling everyone she is vampire girl as she has her bfs have sex with her with her period and then licks it. This is a prime example of the things she would say. Oh she was kind sure enough. She would make you feel important and life was so fun! She's going to be rich one day or die trying. Drank daily, went through 3 jobs, one she took just BC it had a good disability plan which she was on by the time the waiting period was over. The other she slept her coworkers x and I personally experienced her using her bosses email as herself to get business. When I asked her oh your boss emailed me some information. She fessed up and said oh no I'm just using her email. That's when Red flags went up for me and I gracefully took a step back. She played the victim all the time. First, "Her Dad hit on all her friends" then her mom was a cheater" then her sister was a tranny" then she was bullied in school" the list can go on and on. She manipulated every circle she was in. Men and woman alike. She seemed to prey on kind unsuspecting people the most. We did a neighbourhood Christmas fundraiser for kids and toys. I actually had to go over and take the 30 plus toys myself out of her home to hand in as wanted to keep them all. She did manage to keep one.
Going back to her marriage. She ended up cheating on her husband and she was cheating before they were married. He moved out. Now she had free range. She would drop off her child at the other neighbours down the street as we had stopped talking to her long ago. She would do this to start dating the string of men. And they started the week her x moved out. She had ar least 3 on the go at one point. 2 in one week. All her friends were gone except one. Then she disappeared. She finally moved out as she knew her number was up around here and is now starting on a new circle I'm sure to manipulate and sway to her liking and dreams of riches.

Therapy is a sedative mode of functioning and no one can presume sedative people to accurately assess what is going on.
Every one should stongly involve logic at every encounter with any one.
If somone wants to go see a psy and the so-called professional gives a rendez-vous for 10 p.m., that is against protocol of things at the first place. That happens by the way!
Don't get curious and don't give your number.

I was subject to 'severe abuse' from a personality disordered parent who would meet the objective clinical criteria for psychopathy I put up with 23 years and evaded certain death. I am in no way in the business of victim blaming.

That said, we are all human beings. The human condition is variable.

We don't what living in a society that isn't sick would do for people.

We as fellow human beings have been constructed ourselves by our environments and experiences and do not have the information or right to dictate who belongs to the human race or what exactly that must constitute.

We live with the notion that other people have the ability to free us or control us. The truth is you are never responsible for other peoples actions towards you but not can you actually meaningfully assess or judge what behaviour is acceptable. Where does that end?