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I know this one. I took care of my mother for about nine years and it was nothing but lies and manipulations to get what she wanted. Not needed but wanted which changed from day to day. It got so bad that when I did stand my ground she went behind my back to make it happen anyhow. I lost money, time, life, friends I had no time for and more. I have never been hurt or used by someone in my life like this let alone it be my own mother doing it. No matter what I did or said it would not stop instead she reacted like I had slapped her with all the drama that goes with it. I tried to hire a caregiver for her but she would cancel the appointments after waiting almost two months to get it. She was old and used her health to control me until I was taking care of her whole life, home, yard, dump trips, cleaning up after their hobbies or painting the place and it was still never enough. While I was trying to fit her life needs or desires into my life she was running out to go swimming and to the bars. She wasn't sick those days she just didn't want to take care of her life anymore and I was a tool to serve her needs. I asked my brother for help to at least get her to down size so I could handle the load as I have my own health issues at 64 and a life to maintain. He came and got her leaving me with everything she owned to dispose of alone. He brought three people with him to load a small truck with the things she had to have and left me to do all the rest. I guess I shouldn't complain it was the first time he ever did anything for her at all besides money once in awhile. He hasn't visited her in years. What I learned from all this is that if I was drowning my family would watch. This kind of thing is a no win situation for the care taker period.
Margalis Fjelstad Ph.D., LMFT
Relationships
When Relationships Are Based on Manipulation
Recognize the signs. Break the pattern.
Posted Apr 01, 2014
An emotional caretaker is someone who looks out for the feelings, needs, and wants of an emotional manipulator. The caretaker defers to the manipulator’s wants, giving up their own wants and even their own health and well-being needs. They give in to “keep the peace” and to please the other person—all with no improvement in the relationship.
Emotional caretakers are caring, concerned, generous, and reliable people. They sincerely want to please others and are generally nice people. However, they can be easily manipulated by others because they tend to be passive and overly compliant, and to have high levels of guilt and obligation, or fear of anger in others. An emotional caretaker would rather feel hurt, angry, or depressed themselves rather than have the person they care about experience any of those feelings. This makes them highly vulnerable to being taken advantage of and mistreated in relationships with people who are highly self-oriented and selfish.
Many caretakers don’t even realize they are giving up so much of themselves. When they do notice, they may become resentful and angry—but they may keep doing it anyway. Such clients often ask me, “Why did I choose to get into a relationship with someone who is so selfish?” But a caretaker personality is magnetizing to an emotional manipulator. At first the relationship seems wonderful—one person who loves to give and one person who loves to receive. Unfortunately, too often the receiver just wants more and more, all their own way. While the caretaker secretly hopes things will balance out in the long run, they never do.
(I don't think that emotional caretakers and co-dependents are the same thing: Most caretakers are highly functional, positive, and feel deserving at work and with their friends—while co-dependents are typically passive, self-invalidating, powerless and self-defeating in most relationships.)
When caretakers are in relationships with people who respect, value, and have positive regard for them, they get their needs satisfied and there is a good balance of give and take. And caretakers usually have positive relationships in their lives. But in an intimate relationships with a manipulator, an emotional caretaker’s values and beliefs about giving and caring—and their fear of the anger, hostility and rejection from the manipulator keeps them virtually hostage. When the caretaker disagrees or wants something different than the manipulator, they often don’t or can’t stand their ground, set boundaries, or solve differences because that level of “combat” is out of their range of skills and values. They are at the mercy of a partner whose goal is to get what they want, no matter who it hurts.
What is the cost of being an emotional caretaker in a manipulative relationship? Loss of self-esteem; increased anxiety and depression; a growing sense of hopelessness and helplessness; exhaustion; a sense of emptiness and increasing hurt; fear; and frustration. Caretakers often feel trapped in relationships because of their sense of loyalty and reluctance to hurt the other person, no matter what that person has done.
Instead of the reactions of fight-or-flight, most caretakers respond to danger, anger and hostility by shutting down. Their breathing becomes shallow, they freeze up, and wait for the danger to pass. This shutdown process makes thinking fuzzy, as muscles tense up, and even heart and digestion rates slow down. This reaction can result in physical problems such as migraines; indigestion and other intestinal problems; insomnia; neck, shoulder and back aches; and an overall sense of defeat.
How does one stop being an emotional caretaker? The most important thing to do is to value yourself and treat yourself with as much respect as you do others. Value your own wants and needs and preferences. Set boundaries that don’t allow others to invalidate you, put you down, or ignore what is important to you. Learn to fight and to flee effectively when you are in danger.
Care for yourself first and then offer your caring to others. It can change your life.
Addition to previous comment
Addition to previous comment I know this one.
This is not to say you have to be a care taker to have this happen. By caretaker I think this means anyone that puts someone else's needs before their own but only due to manipulation and being in a situation they can't remove themselves from.
found your story very sad,
found your story very sad, these people are often family, we never seem to have the strength to walk away, but walking away is what we must do. I hope that you find something good for yourself as you deserve it, be selfish and put your needs first as log as you're not hurting anyone, don't feel guilty, it's your life, Hope you find some happiness.x
Cutting a toxic, hurting
Cutting a toxic, hurting relationship is something normal not selfish, no matter if it's a friend, a relative or someone less important. First of all we have the duty to take care of ourselves. If a person is toxic to us we don't have any duty left towards him/her, we should end contact or minimize it the most. And if we stay let's just have the common sense to assume the responsability of our facts and stop complaining. There are only two solutions: leaving or accepting.
wow, dump trips.... That
wow, dump trips....
That sounds like the relationship with my mother. I feel you.
Please email me at davidstighansen gmail com if you would like to compare notes.
The REAL reason why relationships fail
It's politically incorrect to talk about relationship failure because nobody wants to accept the blame. But to get to the solution, we must accurately identify the problem FIRST.
The problem: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4zSRkBMPng
I feel your pain
My mother in law did this to myself and my husband for years. We no longer deal with her, just hoping she unleashes her vile on her other family members that are currently judging us for our attempts at self preservation. Sad but true...
Wives can be like this
Manipulative women destroy relationships. My father was literally driven insane by his manipulative wife, and my father-in-law was pushed out of his marriage by his. I got tired of being manipulated and checked out of mine.
Women complain about men not making any effort to form relationships with them, but why would men do so with women who always want more and never appreciate what they do get?
My sons have decided that relationships cost far more than any benefit they might provide, and are thus not interested in pursuing them. All they had to do was watch all the crap I endured, then compare that to what women their own age are offering. They'd rather have lives than chase something they will never achieve.
Easier said than done. what
Easier said than done. what if you don't want to lose the manipulator. I am at point where I have forgotten my self worth. I was never the type of person to allow such treatment. My mind knows the situation I am in, but my heart won't accept it
I have been there and it
I have been there and it lasted 17 years before I ended up with anxiety attacks. It was hard for me to leave but I knew I had to and I spent about six months in another town with no contact before I started feeling better. Now when I look back I can't believe I stayed as long as I did. I was miserable inside from who he really turned out to be. The nice man I fell in love with was the fake the manipulating using man was the real man. There are a lot of women who are in the same place you are now. Facebook has several sites where we support each other. You may want to check some of them out. Even if you stay with him don't ride it out alone find someone who has had the same happen to them to talk to. It helps us get and keep a better perspective on the whole thing. Good luck
Can you post some links or
Can you post some links or names of the Facebook groups for support? I am in the middle of a nasty divorce (with two children that he doesn't hesitate to manipulate too) with a classic type of manipulator and could use some support...
It is funny, after years of me bending backwards for each and any of his wishes, being a total doormat and having no chance to do anything about it whatsoever, my husband decided he got a mid-life crisis and took off for few months "in search of himself". It was tough, because I was working two jobs and taking care of two kids, but with him not being there, one day it was like a giant switch turned off in my head and I stopped, looked at myself and thought "What on Earth are you doing?".
And suddenly I was the same "me" from 15 years ago before I met my husband, who was perfectly capable to take care of herself... And suddenly (for instance) I insisted, that I will no longer hand over my salary to my husband and wait for allowance...
And now It's been 9 months since I flipped and he still refuses to accept the fact, that he lost his devoted servant and he puts as much pressure as he can and I don't have any other option than to to weather it without backing down (well, as I know very well from past experience backing down, even though that would be a natural move for me, won't bring me anything good - just increase in demands)...
Could use any help I can get ;o)
I am happy to hear you are
I am happy to hear you are out of that relationship. Sometimes what we need is time away from them so our brain has a chance to catch up and process. Once that is done the light flips on.
All of these sites will lead you to other sites that can give you information. You can go to utube.com and do a search on gas lighting and narcissists. Information is knowledge and knowledge is freedom. Hint: Before you move on to dating do research on how this has affected you or you can repeat the process with someone else unknowingly. Some of the damage is subtle and you won't know it is there until life shows you. Its very important to have this knowledge about you.. Believe it or not our part in the whole thing was letting them in our lives in the first place. If we look back we see the signs but why did we miss them in the first place? This is what you need to know about yourself so you never repeat it. Best wishes
https://www.facebook.com/SurvivoroftherelationshipwithaNARCISSIST
https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Narcissist-in-Your-Life/282195388548003
https://www.facebook.com/livingabuse?ref=hl
http://breakups.org/survive-a-narcissist.html#.U1AjPFVdVmM
http://www.healthyplace.com/personality-disorders/malignant-self-love/surviving-the-narcissist/how-to-survive-a-narcissist/
http://divorcesupport.about.com/od/angerandconflict/a/Divorcing-A-Narcissist.htm
http://blog.melanietoniaevans.com/overcome-pathological-lies-narcissist-win-divorce-settlement-and-custody-battles/
http://daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/gaslighting.html This one is for daughters of a narcissist but a lot still applies.
http://narcissisticbehavior.net/category/the-effects-of-gaslighting-in-narcissistic-victim-syndrome/
Been there. Done that. Very
Been there. Done that. Very happy now in my new life. I highly recommend the best book on the subject "Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft (a male expert in the field of domestic abuse). Truly, the definitive book on manipulative men and the abuse they inflict. This author and his insights (based on years of hands on experience in dealing with abusive men) were life changing for me. I wish you the very best.
I'm very proud of you. I'm in
I'm very proud of you. I'm in the UK and have a total parallel life to yours!
I've been alone for 18 months now and the day he left I felt like I'd been underwater for years and finally I could breath!
What can I say to help? Stick with it, chat on forums (I'm going to do those link you've got) I keep thinking of my lovely upbringing and gorgeous family, and my children. We're all kind, happy, well-adjusted cuddly folk.
He's a bag of nerves and always angry!
Here you go "Free to a good home, my husband. 1 careful owner"
Unless you've lived with one of these nuts, no one would 'get' it, mine is Mr Nice Guy outside the house, it's all an act.
Always remember, You'll still be gorgeous and kind in the morning. He'll never wake up a good guy.
Good luck hun x
I could use the support
If you would be kind enough to share the names of some of the Facebook groups you mentioned I could use the support. I am pretty sure I've finally realized that I'm involved in this type of relationship.
I was very happily married for 10 years, highly motivated and loved tending to my husbands needs. I became sick and couldn't do add much for him as I once could. During the time I thought my incredible husband was going to step up to the marriage plate, he began to pick fights. Suddenly, our amazing communication skills ceased, he started to belittle me showed an ugly side I'd never knew.
My no-nonsense, self accepting and confidant personality began to dwindle. I'm a shell of the vibrant person I was when we married. I hoped it was a phase of the stress. 5 years of incessant fighting later I think I have discovered the person I married isn't going to return. I'm feel trapped in a living hell. I'm debating whether or not to leave. The only reason I haven't is because of my children.
Do it!
I just left a bordeline man... It was very hard for me as I thought I had finally found my soul mate. But my energy for life was gone after one year with him. We broke up. I gave him a second chance. He ruined it again. I left for good: I have never been so happy since. Don't waste any precious years or what's left of your beauty and youth, just do it.
Congrats on not putting in
Congrats on not putting in more time with him. It took me seventeen years to remove myself from mine. I got in a car accident when I was first getting ready to leave and by the time I was well he had me so far down I no longer knew who I was. Hard to believe that a successful strong woman could become what he had created. I am back now and spend some of my time fighting abuse trying to help others that have or are going through this kind of relationship. I have found that experience is the best teacher in some ways. Most can't relate to what they did to us and the doctors themselves either play it down like this article did or they just sit and take notes on the questions they have asked you. Sometimes you just have to have been there to know what it's really like.
If you can't get away from
If you can't get away from him emotionally you need to seek help. They gas light you and make it almost impossible to know what is really going on because it changes your reality.
Knowledge is freedom. Study anything you can on the subject to keep your reality where it should be so you can take your power back. Good luck. If you need a support system you can search narcissist on Facebook and you will find there are several men and women who are in your spot. You can learn from them so jump in and find yourself again. I know what you're going through and you will be in my prayers. Best wishes
http://www.medicinenet.com/narcissistic_personality_disorder/article.htm
http://narcissisticbehavior.net/the-effects-of-gaslighting-in-narcissistic-victim-syndrome/
Your words
If I wasn't stuck in mental and emotional limbo, I would've used those exact words. I used to skilled at describing emotion, but now I fear that if I try to say of my pain out loud, all that will escape my lips is an incoherent, wounded animal's sound. Anguish translates to crazy for anyone I've tried and failed to connect with regarding what he's done to me.
Are these types of dynamics
Are these types of dynamics possible friendships. In the article it mentions that caretakers usually have very positive relationships at work and with friends. I do too except for one individual who became so invasive and manipulative that it required many of my close friends and family to tell me that it was not a healthy situation to be in. Even after I distanced myself from her it took me a period of severe guilt before I could objectively see that she had been compromising my autonomy to the extent that I was no longer able to assert myself on matters of what to eat, do ,talk about, when to sleep, or see other people. I had felt obliged to justify everything I did and if she did not consider that justification sufficient, which was usually a function of whether it complied with her own will, I felt unable to stand my ground and almost always succumbed. She was unwilling to accept my seeing any other friends, my family or boyfriend. When I was studying she never believed me and was very critical of my choice to go to university away from the town in which we lived.
My main question is that, even though this was not a relationship in the common sense, could it be that a similar type of exploitation of a caretaking personality was going on? I honestly don't know but I am assertive in other situations and have never experienced any other freindships, or relationships which were quite as exhausting.
yes it can happen in
yes it can happen in friendships too and they can be the hardest to break away from as we are programmed to be nice and not say no. I once had to sit there for 5 and a half hours listening to a friend talk at me, and when I tried to say something she would talk over me, interrupt me, always taking the conversation back to her. But these are hard to extricate from. Relationships are about give and take, if the other person is just taking more and more as I have found out, then it's time to end it.
Yes indeed time to end it when it's more take
I suffered that the last 3 years and found I was being manipulated. I finally gave the boot could tell I was being taken advantage of money wise. Paying for two people at 10:50 hr. I finally put my foot down and said no way. I thought I might as well be living alone.
Absolutely! You don't have
Absolutely! You don't have to be in a so called relationship with someone for them to try to use you or manipulate you for their own needs. If your relationship has no balance to it and your the one doing all the giving then yes you have a friend who is a user and manipulator and it will have an affect on you. It makes us feel bad about ourselves after awhile because they use guilt and other neg. messages to get us to do what they want. They are pulling at us all the time to do this or that. We agree to help them with a trip to the doctor and they want to go to the mall to. Its always about asking for a little from us and then taking the whole cake.
Really? How to stop being a caretaker is to...stop being a caretaker?
You know, I realize you have a Ph.D. and all, so you've probably written far more in-depth articles than this. Here, however, you first oversimplify the relationship between "caretaker" and "manipulator"--what if, for example, the "caretaker" is staying in the relationship because of a child or some other dependent, or if the "caretaker" feels afraid they would be more hurt if the relationship ended. It's not usually an "all or nothing" situation.
Second, I take issue with using the term "caretaker" to imply an emotionally stunted, easily manipulated person. We MUST return in our world to giving high regard to those who act as true caretakers! This is a positive thing, and one that, in the "ME First" culture of millenials, and many others, has become seen as a bad thing. It is important that ALL of us learn to give care, take care, help care for our family and friends. Let's use another term. One that is ok to make into a negative, and which will not hurt anyone who is legitimately caretaking by defined roles such as "mother", "father", "child of an elder", etc.
Third, you go through your entire article, painting the "caretaker" as someone who needs help, and then, in your last two sentences basically say, "How do you stop being a caretaker? Why, just stop being one!" Nothing about the complex dynamics, perhaps needing support, etc.
I just think you probably have much more to say that would be valuable.
Thank you,
Fiora
I agree the term seems not to
I agree the term seems not to fit correctly but I don't think the term caretaking in this article is related to taking care of the aging or children. I think they mean when were with a person who manipulates to get what they want they use methods that can make us seem co dependent but only in regards to the one who has tried to turn us into their caretaking unit. Were not like that in other relationships and we do have other healthy relationships where a co dependent usually won't. Were only like that with the one leaning towards narcissism which comes in different levels. We are all a little bit narcissist because we have to be in order to take care of ourselves. However as the narcissist behaviors cluster with more traits they are then considered selfish and self absorbed enough to cause damage until it is considered a personality disorder. It only takes five on a list of nine to have a personality disorder. Each behavior on its own may not seem so bad but when you put them all together its a nightmare. Staying in a bad relationship for the children is out dated. Now were aware of the damage it does to the kids and how they learn from it. They will become like the manipulator or they will become like the one doing the serving. Its all about what the parents want for their kids and their future.
75 % of the women in physically abusive relationships stay because of finances or fear. Staying in anything that damages you is not a good idea and even less if you have children because our subconscious is used about 85% of the time when running our lives and done so totally unaware to us. Kids are like sponges and they are absorbing it all which defines who they are going to be. There is never a good reason to stay in an abusive relationship.
I am one of those children and I can tell you now never stay for the kids because it damages them to. All they are doing is learning how to incorrectly relate to relationships and people which will bring them nothing but the same down the road.
This article makes it sound like a weakness in the so called caretaking person. That's not true because its more than that. Anyone who manipulates uses guilt, negative comments etc to get what they want from you is selfish and has a level of evil in them. If you fight it you end up with a war so most of the time we let it go until we don't know who we are anymore. Were not co dependent, caretakers nor weak. We were lied to and presented with one personality to end up with another one that destroys. No weakness involved there anyone can be duped. How do you make wise choices for yourself with false information? Not possible and they see to it that you believe what they want you to until they have you trapped.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/power-in-relationships/200905/are-you-being-gaslighted
http://www.winning-teams.com/recognizenarcissist.html
http://www.narcissismcured.com/narcissism-test.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/terry-gaspard-msw-licsw/is-living-with-a-narcissi_b_4863057.html
thank you so much for stating
thank you so much for stating such excellent points
I found the article victimizing the victim when indeed the fault lies with the manipulator.
You made more valid points than the author
thank you so much for stating such excellent points
I found the article victimizing the victim when indeed the fault lies with the manipulator. Taking a complex subject and making it "simple" does an injustice to those who are targets or victims of bullying, manipulations, and all other forms of abuse.
Recommend that people read the website: Workplace Bullying Institute (wbi.org) for factual information from experts all around the globe re abuse and in particular, regarding "targets" (also known as victims). WBI is spot on as is domestic abuse expert, Lundy Bancroft.
You made more valid/accurate points than the author
Thank you for your excellent points. I found your comments far more insightful and accurate than those by the author.
Bullying (see the Workplace Bullying Institute) as defined by WBI is a form of abuse that is deliberate and intentional. Whether it is bullying in the workplace, or domestic abuse by manipulative men (primarily men), abusers specifically target individuals who are competent, intelligent and compassionate. WBI refers to victims as "targets." Lundy Bancroft (an expert in domestic abuse) who wrote an excellent book on manipulative, abusive men ("Why Does He Do That?") explains how manipulators/abusers operate and how they specifically target compassionate, caring women.
This author does an injustice by blaming the victims of manipulation rather than holding the manipulators themselves responsible for the many and varied forms of abuse that they choose ("Choose" being the definitive word) to inflict.
Once again, we see people re-victimizing by blaming the recipient rather than the perpetrator. Shame on the author for getting it so wrong. And kudos to you, for getting it so right.
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Thank you for the valuable
Thank you for the valuable article. I wish I had the chance to come across it 15 years ago going through a marriage exactly as you described and which I summed every courage I had to walk out from and search for my true self again and it wasn't easy. I never regret that decision as I am happier now. I think back at that experience and always remind myself how to protect myself from emotional leeches that I used to attract and still learning to keeping the balance by trusting my own intuition about characters.
I found this article very
I found this article very helpful as it gave me insight into two relationships in my life which I recently ended.
The first was with my husband of thirty eight years. i was so desperate to make it work and yet everything written here rings true.
My excuse to divorce him two years ago was that he was alcoholic but really his behaviour was intolerable. To outsiders, neighbours etc he appeared lovely, quiet and if anything, he managed to make me look like 'the baddy' for want of a better word.
He gave the children a hard time too. When i think of the manipulation and the moods and it just got worse and worse.reading this makes me realise the part i played.
The other relationship was with a friend. I could not listen to what my head was telling me and frequently kept thinking it must be me !
She was rude, objectionable, manipulative, aggressively mocking, highly unpleasant and basically lacked any respectful comunication. It was only after years and years of her coming round most Sundays that an acquaintance talked to me about the friend. She told me that any of her friends who knew my friend did not like her and that her husband could not stand my friend as she was a man hating monster, she went on to tell me how my friend humiliated her husband(ex)when in company etc etc .
i finally believed my own feelings and cut my losses. I did not do this lightly on the word of the acquantance as there were other people who also expressed concerns, the friend has no insight, despite colleagues bringing a grievance procedure against her at work with a year long dosier of rudeness, complaints from children she teaches about her attitude,and even her own sister giving up and refusing to talk to r . phew , got that off my chest!
Why did i put up with that and for so long?
Hi. The date of your reply is
Hi. The date of your reply is April yet, I am hoping you can give more insight on how your journey of 'distancing' went thru. As of writing I am in a middle of 'taking my time and space needed' away from my husband of 21yrs. I had no idea that I was married to a 'manipulator' until I accidentally read an article "8 signs of manipulators & how to stop" just a few days ago. When my family knew about the plight I had been (I just blew my top with no convincing -- my sister just asked me how I was doing!), they were crushed and angry and has forbidden me not to return to him nor even speak to him. Even told me that if I decide to return to him I will no longer be welcome in my family! I have kept my distance now for almost a month, but I am not sure if this is right. I know I must to regain my self. but he keeps on calling and telling me that he will change, no more arguments with him, he tells me that he is willing to go thru marriage counselling if only I just come back, he is deteriorating physically (he said he was diagnosed with a clogged artery and at work). Now, I am afraid that I may have been terrorized by my own family & my husband. I still love my man, but I know that I have to fix myself. But if I fixed myself -- what then? do I go back to him? now I am afraid of my own family :( this seem like I am gong nowhere.
To: The date of your reply is
Hi. The date of your reply:
I am sorry this happened to you. I am not a professional but I have almost forty years in living with a narcissist and have learned a lot about manipulators. The one thing I learned is they don't change. They are wired different to begin with. Its been in them since they were children for some reason and very hard for them to change if they can at all.
My ex also called me making no contact hard, he even told me his health was bad only for me to find out it wasn't that bad after I went back to him. His treatment of me was worse than ever. Later I read a book a Dr wrote that said never go back to an abuser because it will always be worse. I wished I had read that before I wasted five more years trying.
I also learned that some people who end up with manipulators are co dependent which is why it makes it so hard for us to say no and take care of ourselves over them when we should. That usually comes from our childhood. From your post it sounds like you have a lot of controlling people around you. That makes it hard for a person to not second guess themselves all the time which confuses us and soon we find we made the wrong choice. Listen to your inner voice and shut what they say and do out. Try to remember you are not responsible for your husbands health or anything else concerning others if it means your not able to do what you need to for yourself. Search engines are a good way to find sources on manipulation, narcissists and co dependency. Look up what gas lighting is, it explains a lot about how they get us emotionally in a state to manipulate in the first place. Knowledge is freedom so take the time to study up on these subjects and it will help you understand more about how it all works and the effects it has on you. I would say from your post that you have doubts about what to do which means your inner voice is trying to warn you of something the external world is not letting you feel long enough to work out within yourself. Just remember that if it does not feel right it probably isn't. Good luck
Its valuable info I must say
What a valuable info for all those suffering emotionally from the manipulators.
I was in one such relationship for 7 years, although the actuall relationship lasted just 2 years, then I was dumped for another person. Still it lasted for 5 years more. It was like that suffering of a recent breakup lasted for 5 more years. I shut-down myself from many good things, from a normal life, I still havent finished my MSc which I started a few month before my breakup, It was in another country, with new language. My hair turned gray from different places, went through phases of alchohlism, lost my friends, away from family. I am in a miserable situation right now. I am desparately trying to get away from this situation now.
I need all my strength right now for myself. I hope I can improve on my situation.
But again, why I did it, was it those first two years when I was doing all to please the manipulator, she was controlling all, from my food to my clothes, to my taste in songs, movies, books, political philosophies , almost everything.
The manipulators must be real good at creating the web around your emotions/life.
I feel for your situation
I feel for your situation because I can relate. My spouse is extremely controlling and manipulative, and this according to many counselors (as well as books I've read, but that could be subjective on my part). She won't hear any of that, rejecting most things that do not agree with her view of things. Good luck to you, it's a very hard situation.
They are very good at using
They are very good at using whatever means they know works with you to get their way. Guilt, tears, threats....whatever gets an emotional response from you. Remember...it is because you genuinely CARE and that is the food on which they feast. It becomes a game for them to see how much they can get away with and how much you will take.
Be glad you are free of that person. Now thrive! Regain yourself and allow yourself to heal. I wish you all the best!
Emothional Caretaker vs Co-dependent
Thank you for explaining the differences in these two types of people. Your description of the emotional caretaker fits me exactly. I never fit in very well, to the definitions of co-dependent, even though there is some overlap. But your article is very good and I am going to share it with my now-adult children to hopefully help them to understand some things about their growing up years. As an earlier comment said, "I wish I had known this 30 years ago as a teenager, before I married the manipulator."
i like you article..i can
i like you article..i can relate
Enabling the manipulator
After my divorce I was in two relationships with men who were consummate liars and manipulators. Today I am in a good healthy relationship with a man who is honest and simple in his outlook in life. It is a relieve to be in a good relationship. I also noticed that when ever my ex boyfriend gets in touch I always feel nauseated and unclean at the end of the conversation. I have promised myself to listen to my gut instincts and my emotional/physical response to people instead of trying to think things out intellectually and to take flight when that primitive feeling takes hold.
What if??
What if You recognize that you are the manipulator in this scenario? This personality type will inherently overwhelm or subdue the "caretaker" personality type. One may not even notice it until they do some real looking from the outside in. What can the "Manipulator" do to try to change what really seems to be - their whole personality.
If you're the manipulator
I would say the first step one should take if they honestly recognize themselves as the manipulator would be to sit down with the one they love and have an open conversation. Apologize for your behavior and more importantly, set the stage for the other person to express how they feel without judgement/guilting from you. Then dedicate yourself to being a better person, seek professional help if you can. Make a conscious effort to put the other person first, to recognize their needs and desires and keep a constant dialogue with them. :)
I need more advice. PLEASE!!!
Just as the article states, i am an emotional caretaker to the letter. But, i am not in a relationship. i suffer from this sort of quietness with EVERYONE around me. Litterally everyone. even my own brothers and sisters. No matter how hard i try or want to say something, fight back. i cant. i just cant. my mind moves so fast and i think of the longterm consiquences of speaking my mind so i just keep my mouth shut. I am so tired of being scared, of being quiet. When ur a quiet person about ur feelings ppl feel free to state their feelings about others infront of you without caring if u even have feelings on the subject. I am only 23 years old. i have a 2 year old daughter and i dont want her to be like this. Please please please help me. I do value my opinions, myself, and all of that. The problem is getting the words to come out!!!! Im so scared of telling people off that the anger and frustrations just sit and build up. once in a while i go into a state where i cant talk to anyone for at least an hour or a day. i need to be alone to calm down. but then im happy as pie again. im tired of being an emotional dumpster. i sometimes feel like there is something wrong but this article makes me feel less alone. However i still need help.
please help me
ZippedLips
Not a professional but..
I'm not a professional but I would say you should start by recognizing that what you say/think/feel does matter. That if you say what you need or want, it is not the end of the world and surely not the end of any meaningful relationship with anyone who cares about you.
Recognize that if you continue in this fashion not only will you spend the vast majority of your time unhappy and never feeling fulfilled with life, your daughter may possibly end up the same. Use that as your reason for change. Let that be the long term consequence you think of when you have that internal debate as to whether to speak your mind.
Start small. Start with basic things. When people ask what you want for dinner, say what you would like. If something happens that you find hurtful, tell the person involved.
You also have to realize that you're not giving the people around you the chance to be respectful/mindful of you and they deserve that chance as well.
Love yourself.
Thank You
Over the years people have tried to give me advice.
Hearing it from an outsider gives a much better view on it and I thank you very much. Putting it in a way of starting small actually is a great way to think about it. The comment about dinner made me laugh because you are right. I wont even give an idea on that subject :).
Thank you so very much.
dealing with manipulators
I was recently dumped by a 2nd hand manipulator, in that he was totally blinded by a twistedly possessive mother and daughter. Both exhibited extreme hostility toward me, clearly hated me utterly because he dared to care for me. He then, in turn, turned his anger, accusations, and bitterness towards me because he could not assert himself with his mother or daughter as he was clearly afraid of both of them. And lucky me, I got the anger and rage of all three! My "crime"? Was to speak up and say things are not going well and that I was unhappy. For 6 years I did everything I could in hopes of showing him the value of being happy, being in a loving, healthy relationship instead of one that dealt with all the pitfalls of manipulation such as crying, screaming, lying, stealing, backstabbing, spiteful actions...to no avail. Now I am free of that trilogy of horror and I feel so much better, more alive, my life soooo much more drama free! (Sad to say, he would say hurtful things to me and then try to belittle me because I didn't cry enough which he said showed that I was "cold")...just to show how low he would sink.
I am a happy, loving person with many interests and I now know what to avoid in the future. One major thing I noticed about the manipulators and this is important. THEY CANNOT APOLOGIZE or if they do, they will sneakily turn the blame onto you somehow..." You misunderstood me...or...I am sorry if you didn't understand what I was doing, etc" thereby making you at fault for being too stupid to get what their intention was. Trust me, we see and understand very well.
My heart goes out to all of the kind and loving souls here. Baby steps. Take them in the right direction to claim your life back. No one should go thru life walking on eggshells. Focus on yourselves for once, no matter how hard this will be and say No when that is what comes to mind. You have the power and I believe in all of you!
dealing with manipulators
I was recently dumped by a 2nd hand manipulator, in that he was totally blinded by a twistedly possessive mother and daughter. Both exhibited extreme hostility toward me, clearly hated me utterly because he dared to care for me. He then, in turn, turned his anger, accusations, and bitterness towards me because he could not assert himself with his mother or daughter as he was clearly afraid of both of them. And lucky me, I got the anger and rage of all three! My "crime"? Was to speak up and say things are not going well and that I was unhappy. For 6 years I did everything I could in hopes of showing him the value of being happy, being in a loving, healthy relationship instead of one that dealt with all the pitfalls of manipulation such as crying, screaming, lying, stealing, backstabbing, spiteful actions...to no avail. Now I am free of that trilogy of horror and I feel so much better, more alive, my life soooo much more drama free! (Sad to say, he would say hurtful things to me and then try to belittle me because I didn't cry enough which he said showed that I was "cold")...just to show how low he would sink.
I am a happy, loving person with many interests and I now know what to avoid in the future. One major thing I noticed about the manipulators and this is important. THEY CANNOT APOLOGIZE or if they do, they will sneakily turn the blame onto you somehow..." You misunderstood me...or...I am sorry if you didn't understand what I was doing, etc" thereby making you at fault for being too stupid to get what their intention was. Trust me, we see and understand very well.
My heart goes out to all of the kind and loving souls here. Baby steps. Take them in the right direction to claim your life back. No one should go thru life walking on eggshells. Focus on yourselves for once, no matter how hard this will be and say No when that is what comes to mind. You have the power and I believe in all of you!
Sounds like you had a
Sounds like you had a narcissist in your life. I am glad your free of him they do nothing but trash those who love them. They project how they feel about themselves on to us so there is a lot of name calling and being accused of things we have never even thought of. They are just plain evil when it comes to how they affect our lives.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder/basics/symptoms/CON-20025568
Labels
Dr. Fjelsted, I don't think your labels "manipulator" and "caretaker" are useful because the blame for dysfunctional relationships is seldom one-sided. In a dominant-submissive relationship, the manipulation usually travels in both directions. Submissives prone to self-pity are going to adopt the caretaker label; and I'm sure that self-pity isn't the response you want.
caretakers vs codependents
The author states
wrote:I don't think that emotional caretakers and co-dependents are the same thing: Most caretakers are highly functional, positive, and feel deserving at work and with their friends—while co-dependents are typically passive, self-invalidating, powerless and self-defeating in most relationships.
You make codependents seems to be needy and weak. Not sure if you've ever read Melody Beatty's book on codependency? Anyone can become codependent given certain personality traits meet their counterpart. Codependents are NOT dependent, they dependent on functioning in the relationship and will do anything to keep it going.
What you seem to be talking of are care-givers, not caretakers (codependents). Caregivers are pretty healthy people and would NEVER stay in emotionally abusive relationships for long. They are not people that are being sought out by narcissists (the most 'popular' pendant to codependents).
Recovery from codependency/caretaking is possible by following the 12 steps - similar to the program for alcoholics and other addicts.
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