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I can understand the example of getting defensive if you feel you are treated badly, but what of the couples who just dont get turned on the same way they did at the start of their relationship? I mean I have read that the mystery of a new partner is what really get the juices flowing, but after a few years when both partners know each other so well the lust sort of fades ( which I think it was meant to, because our hormones and need to spread our genes are at the core of sex) And reguardless if sex creates life or not lust has a time limit. I dont think we were meant to want to screw like bunnies with the same partner forever, but since humans believe in monogamy( which I think is good) We try to come up with all kinds of explinations for fading sexual desire. ( most that are usually wrong, and only prolong bad advice) Lets be honest with ourselves. We have traded long term sexual desire for long term companionship. We can work with it by either having sex when when really dont feel like it ( for our higher driven partners) Take short sex breaks ( to give our less driven partners a break)Or some trade off variation of the two. Either way in the end we must realize that just maybe putting a number on how many times a couple should have sex in a week/a mounth/or year ( which is ridiculous to me) is just bad advice and some things are not meant to stay exactly the same as couples get to know each other better.
© 2011 by Crucible Institute. All rights reserved.
You have a common understanding
Thanks for taking the time to express a viewpoint many readers may share. There are lots of things you take for granted that my experience says otherwise:
1. spreading genes is at the core of human sexuality
2. lust has a built-in time-limit
3. humans traded long-term desire for long-term companionship
4. knowing your partner kills sex
5. "sex breaks" are the solution
These are all part of conventional ways of understanding sex in committed relationships, you represent the major view and I am the minority. If you want to see a completely different--and I mean completely different--way of seeing these things, take a look at my book "Intimacy & Desire." I can't begin to summarize the difference because it's a whole different reality. If you want to invest $10 you can get it in eBook or paperback. It will change your understanding of sex, intimacy, and relationships.
But to respond directly to the points you raise: You're basically outlining your view of the natural sexual ecology of ongoing relationships. "Intimacy & Desire" offers a completely different picture of how the sexual ecology operates. It's the first explanation why normal healthy couples have sexual desire problems, and it's completely different than the one you've put together. People live down to their expectations and the reality they perceive. So you might like mine over yours, because you get to have hot sex and profound intimacy within a long-term relationship (knowing your partner can enhance intimacy). Lust has no built in time limits, but other-validated intimacy does. Developing and maintaining a "self"--and NOT spreading genes--is at the core of human sexuality. (Whoever came up with the idea that gene-spreading is the core of sex is a lousy lay and/or not someone to have an ongoing relationship with.) Sex breaks are a waste of time. The issue is becoming more emotionally autonomous, not getting away from each other.
If you want to dialogue with someone about this, check out the forums on Crucible4Points.com. You'll have some very thought-provoking interactions with the people there. Thanks for writing.
I understand your view of
I understand your view of develping self and I agree. But it all assumes that you had not done so prior to sex and a commited relationship. The reason I gave my view point above is because I have experience. I have been in multiple long term relationships in my life(since the age of 16) And I finally married later in life. In every relationship lust fades after about 3 to 5 years.( not gone but just not the same, and yes I tried many things to bring it back, from becoming more independent again to sex toys yada yada.) Maybe Im a minority I dont know, but from experience with myself and my other married friends sex drive slows down after a few years. The only few people I know who have been able to keep their sex life alive are the ones who live an almost completly seperate life the majority of the time apart from each other, via travel for jobs or those in the military.
Separateness doesn't change sex drive
You've got several ideas floating around here. One is that sex drive slows after a few years. Another is that lust fades after 3-5 years. Another is that living apart most of the time keeps sex alive.
Let's differentiate sex drive and lust. Sex drive is the biological urge to have sex, largely hormonal, and is know to decease with age, not relationship duration. Lust is carnal attraction or interest. This generally decrease with relationship duration. This is very much influenced by differentiation, and differentiation isn't something that you do prior to sex and a committed relationship and have out of the way, and it certainly isn't a yada yada, no matter how late you marry. Some people are so poorly differentiation lust don't last a year, most can have lust for 3-5. Living mostly apart is how less differentiated people compensate--by decreasing emotional investment and proximity--which is the pattern you're describing. (Living apart doesn't increase sex drive.) Another way people handle this is by serial monogamy (repeated relationships).
You have your own way of explaining this pattern to yourself (outlined in your first post) and as I said, it is a common way if not the predominant way people traditionally understand this pattern. I have a different understanding, based on 30 years of clinical experience:
I've worked with lots of couples going through the pattern you describe. If this was inevitable because of human evolution, there wouldn't be a way to reverse this. By helping them increase their differentiation (which is not reducible to to conventional notions of "independence") they are able to have lust, hot sex, and deeper intimacy than ever before. Some couples haven't had sex in 25 years, and it doesn't take too long before they're making up for lost time.
Is it like being 17 years old again? No. But it's pretty damn good, and lots of people think it's actually better in its own way. Lots of people are better at carnality when they're more mature. It's certainly better than going through the disappointing pattern you're describing.
Hope this helps.
Beliefs/Knowledge
Thanks, Dr. David Schnarch, for defining some things that are NOT true:
1. spreading genes is at the core of human sexuality
2. lust has a built-in time-limit
3. humans traded long-term desire for long-term companionship
4. knowing your partner kills sex
5. "sex breaks" are the solution
Comprehensive sex education in our schools will help many people in understanding their sexuality/relationships. (NYC is making an effort.)
Developing my sexual confidence and who I am has helped me GREATLY.
Knowing what's not true is a powerful thing.
I fully support comprehensive sex education in our schools, and I'm glad to hear NYC is trying. I wish we had sex education like they have in Finland, where they have wonderful modules where they teach kids about handling "sexual feelings."
I'm also happy to hear that you've experienced the sexual benefits of personal development. If we could just get THAT into the curriculum we and our kids would be so much better off. And if we can't get it into the content of courses, we really need the people who teach the course to embody this reality.
Thanks for writing.
Please talk about...
I love your blog posts, and look forward to your follow up on this one.
At some point, can you please talk about the importance of physical attraction in long term relationships? How does loss of attraction figure into the sexual dynamic? (I'm not talking about normal aging, I'm talking about partners who have huge changes in their looks over, say, twenty years. And often we're talking about huge weight gains.)
Heavy topic!
I'd be happy to talk about loss of attraction with body changes, but it's a very heavy topic. It merits more than the simplistic answers it usually receives.
I appreciate the suggestion. This is an issue a great many people have to deal with.
And thanks for the kind word about the posts. I appreciate it.
It would be fantastic!
It would be fantastic if you would do this. Because what I've found is that it is impossible to "make" myself or talk myself into being physically attracted to someone for whom I'm not attracted or have lost physical attraction. I have found I need some decent degree of physical attraction to want to have sex with a partner.
Thank you very much, and I look forward to your next blog post.
Many thanks for the marvelous
Many thanks for the marvelous blog posting! I found your post very interesting, I believe you are a excellent writer. I added your blog to my bookmarks and will return in the futureto your blog. Keep up that exciting job, have a great daytime!
disagree
In my case, I totally disagree with the assertion in this article, that various emotional situations kills lust. If a woman behaves in a way it might kill my desire for her in the moment, but not my hornyness, and I would just masturbate an hour later anyway. I've been that way through my 20's, 30's, 40's, and 50's. Always had a high sex drive, no matter what.
I can't personally identify with any of this discussion about flagging desire in marriage of many years. I have a hard time relating to much of what Schnarch writes.
