Sometimes one can spot a narcissist relatively easily: Constant address changes, a serial dater, many ex-spouses, too many jobs to count. It's not a life more than it is chaos, change, drama, and way too many people interactions. All of it is designed so the narcissist doesn't have much down time to explore their sadness, depression and ultimately, life failure.
Narcissism
This Is What Narcissists Thrive On
New research shows why narcissists cultivate chaos and frenzy.
Posted May 05, 2018

If you’ve ever had a boss or supervisor who seems to exist in a swirl of unending work that needs to be done (right away!), you know how frustrating it is to feel that you’re never on very firm ground. You bump into her in the hallway and say, “How are you?” Instead of responding with a pleasant greeting in return, she rushes by and says, “Frenzied!” Perhaps you have a relative who delays making any commitments to family gatherings, because his life is just “too hectic.” You never know until the last minute whether he’ll show up, and when he does, he’s hopelessly late. These people seem to create chaos, and having done so, appear to relish the opportunity to wreak havoc in everyone else’s life as well.
It might strike you that people who insist on coming across as unbelievably busy and harried might actually enjoy this constant state of confused over-commitment. Sure, you think, they may have important jobs or roles in life, but there must be a way they could be better organized and calmer. As it turns out, their continually chaotic lives may be a function of a high degree of narcissism. They may not actually enjoy the state of frenzy, but instead are driven to give off this impression to cover up feelings of despair and lack of importance. According to Pennsylvania State University’s Sindes Dawood and Aaron Pincus, people high in the pathological type of narcissism are likely to experience the extreme high of feeling that they rule the world, but when things don’t turn out as planned, can become despondent and out of control. The disruption they cause in everyone else’s lives, according to this view, is part of the pattern of needing to fuel their sense of self-importance.
The average person high in the trait of narcissism, Dawood and Pincus argue, isn’t particularly likely to become depressed, but should depressive feelings set in, they would be experienced as plain sadness. The person high in pathological narcissism, by contrast, should be subject to feelings of a particular kind of depression “characterized by anhedonia [feeling empty and useless], feelings of worthlessness, nihilism, and boredom with life." The Penn State researchers believed that those high in pathological narcissism, with its dependence on feeling important, would show variations in mood corresponding to their perceptions of whether other people were recognizing and applauding them. These variations should occur on a bigger scale than the normal variations in mood most people feel. Those high in pathological narcissism should also show greater emotional lability, or more frequent variations in positive and negative moods.
To test the proposal that people high in pathological narcissism would be more likely to experience mood variability, Dawood and Pincus conducted an eight-week study in which 293 undergraduate participants completed weekly assessments of their experience of depressive symptoms. This method allowed the researchers to track the weekly variability of moods which, according to their predictions, should be more extreme in people with higher levels of pathological narcissism. Prior to embarking on the weekly assessments, the participants completed the 52-item Pathological Narcissism Inventory (PNI), which captured the three facets of narcissistic grandiosity — exploitativeness, self-sacrificing self-enhancement, and grandiose fantasy; and four facets of narcissistic vulnerability — contingent self-esteem, hiding the self, entitlement rage, and devaluing.
Self-sacrificing self-enhancement would be tapped by asking individuals to state whether they cover up their grandiosity by appearing to be making sacrifices. This might be the facet of pathological narcissism that comes closest to the idea of trying to seem important by creating a sense of chaos. After all, if you’re working so hard on behalf of others, how could you be accused of trying to make yourself seem important? All of that hard work, according to this view, necessarily means you have to be in a hurried rush and can’t bother to pause.
The narcissistic trait of contingent self-esteem means that you need others to admire you in order to feel good about yourself, and entitlement rage means that you become furious when you don’t get it. Hiding the self and devaluing others, as forms of vulnerable narcissism, further reinforce your tendency to protect yourself from being seen for who you are or seen as worse than other people.
Both at the outset of the study and over the course of its eight weeks, participants rated their depressive symptoms on scales that would be sensitive to weekly variations in their thoughts, feelings, behaviors, and physical symptoms. They also rated their levels of anhedonia and feelings of boredom and sadness.
As you can see, then, the Dawood and Pincus study took a comprehensive approach to ascertaining both levels of pathological narcissism and weekly fluctuations in mood. It would have been interesting to have participants also provide data on the experiences they had over the course of the week that might have contributed to their mood variations, but this was not a focus of the present study. We can assume, though, that an eight-week period was long enough to include events that would serve either to reinforce or detract from the self-esteem of the college student participants. One bad test score or one refused date could send a pathological narcissist into a tailspin whose effects might persist for days. Because this study followed a longitudinal design, the authors were able to draw broader conclusions than could be obtained from the typical one-shot design even without this direct measure of good and bad events.
At the beginning of the eight-week period, students higher in pathological narcissism were more likely to endorse symptoms of depression. Over the course of the eight weeks, though, the students higher in PNI scores became more unstable in their moods, and their ability to feel engaged in their experiences (anhedonia) took a steady downward course. Contingent self-esteem, that need to be seen positively by others, was the strongest predictor of depressive severity and loss of interest over time. It’s possible, as the authors suggested, that their pathological narcissism, particularly their feelings of vulnerability, leads these individuals to avoid seeing themselves in anything but the most favorable light. When things don’t go their way (such as the rebuffed relationship), they can’t see their own contribution, but instead blame everyone else.
Returning now to the question of how to confront that chaotic person in your life, the Dawood and Pincus findings suggest that you might need to attend to the feelings of inferiority that power all that frenetic energy. Depending on your relationship with the person (i.e., your boss or someone in your family), it might mean feeding their sense of self, at least for the moment. The findings further suggest that the chaos these individuals create may also be a way to protect themselves against failure. If you are constantly putting up barriers to the successful completion of projects by being “too busy” to give any of them the attention they deserve, you can easily deflect failure onto all those impossible demands on your time.
In sum, the fulfillment of your goals and aims takes organization and planning. If it’s you who’s putting yourself in the midst of your own chaos, it might be a good time to get back to at least some of that goal-oriented planning. The results can provide you with that all-important authentic validation of your sense of self, as you find yourself making accomplishments for which you can feel genuinely proud.
References
Dawood, S., & Pincus, A. L. (2018). Pathological narcissism and the severity, variability, and instability of depressive symptoms. Personality Disorders: Theory, Research, and Treatment, 9(2), 144-154. doi:10.1037/per0000239
Narcissitic chaos
I whole heartedly agree with the above poster and the statement in the first few lines... my Narc was married at least five times, constant address changes, legal troubles , violent rages out of nowhere. He had many different occupations over the years, whether by choice or at which time he was married to that particular wife. I was never married to the man and consider it a blessing. Eight weeks after the discard he married another woman ... he knew she had some money and induced her to buy him a diesel truck . After only five weeks of marriage he struck her , not once but several times. How do I know all this? She found letters from me written to him and she sent me a letter about five weeks ago. He ran through her money and told her he was unhappy in the marriage and wanted her to move out, which she gladly did. The marriage is but six months old . It is a story that has played out many times in his life and she now has a restraining order on him. In the past , he had two other RO against him for domestic violence by two ex-wives. She had found evidence of the court documnents in a file cabinet she was tidying up. Just a bottomless pit of evil doing to satisfy his parasitic behavior.
Are we talking about the same guy?
We may be or may not. There are so many of them out there. My ex romantic partner, who never did anything bad to me but I saw him for what he was, has just completed marriage #5, or 6 or 7, you never know, he's not that honest. He was able to get #5 to build him a 4 bedroom custom home, after just a few months of courtship. Naturally, it didn't work out, so she moved out of the house right after it was built to live in her adult daughter's spare room. The narcissist lived in the house rent-free for another year before it sold, for pennies on the dollar, because he was unemployed at the time. If #5 had bothered to do even a cursory search of the Internet on this man she would have seen his 40 previous addresses in 12 different states, and a long list of women that were related to him, but he never spoke about. It's not that hard to figure out when you are marrying a narcissist, but you have to want to believe their stories.
Narcissitic chaos
Thanks for the reply back to my posting. I met this jerk on a dating website after a marriage of 29 years imploded for me. Si you see, I wanted some validation and did not even heal from the previous shock. This man was from Mississippi and came to see me four states away.. Long distance relationship. He was sly, cunning and very complimentary at first . A friend even warned me that no one dates someone almost 700 miles away but he was a truck driver so the distance was not a problem. Little by little the signs were there and I was in the fog they call "cognitive dissonance". I knew this was bad and and honestly now I can see why I was valuable to him... I was the perfect empath . The final discard happened last September and I knew all along he was seeing someone whom he married last November 25th. Five weeks later he smashed her in the face and twice after, hit her. She found letters from me and contacted me and said he stole over $26,000 over the last several months. This is a nice decent woman whom I am desperatley sorry for because when you live in the area they live in , that money represents a fortune. No, he did get that out of me , not by a long shot. She has a retraining order on him now... like the two other previous wives . I saw the RO from the wife before her and he had to do anger managment classes and 100 hours of community service. This lady and I have become friends thru all of this drama and she is divorcing him but lacks funds now that all money is gone . She makes too much for legal aid to help her. So as this parasite's life spiral's down for the umpteenth time, he is doing everthing to get her back but she is wise to him and based on all I have read on Narc's , he may hoover her ( stalked the other two wives ) or could possibly try to get back to me , which of course, is total dead end. Even his kids don't want him in their lives, except to extrace money out of him. It is an unending crazy mind f----ing of the highest degree for anyone involved with them. I am truly sorry for her pain and for yours ... and I feel much pity for the next victim who has no idea what will occur with him.
not correct
This article is about a workaholic and overachiever who over commits. It isn't narcissism. Narcissists are all about themselves and have over inflated egos that aren't in reality, even if they don't do anything with their lives or overwork. They are opportunists who feed off others for their own benefit. I have meet multiple. It is all about what they can get from someone. Everything is about them. This is the first article I have read that is trying to say over achievers and workaholics are narcissists. Strange.
not correct
This article is about a workaholic and overachiever who over commits. It isn't narcissism. Narcissists are all about themselves and have over inflated egos that aren't in reality, even if they don't do anything with their lives or overwork. They are opportunists who feed off others for their own benefit. I have met so many. It is all about what they can get from someone. They ovr inflate themselves. Everything is about them. This is the first article I have read that is trying to say over achievers and workaholics are narcissists. Strange. So anyone who is a doctor, lawyer, surgeon, single mother working multiple jobs or a single person or anyone providing or their family working to keep their head a float is a narcissist? I had an illness and was homeless and had to work my butt off for years to get to where I can take care of myself. My job didn't allow me vacation to visit family out of state or I didn't have the money. Based on this article anyone who says they are too busy and are working alot is a narcissist or who has bills pile up and has to work the holidays is a narcissist. I guess it is nice to have a doctors salary or PHD and write blogs. I am sure some workaholics are narcissists but to write a whole article classifying everyone who is too busy with work to socialize is shortsighted.
I hate drama and chaos, but my friend seems to love it
This is so incredibly true! I have a friend who fits all of these descriptions to a T. She whines incessantly about how she’s not happy, has no money, and no stability…when she is the one who has chosen to live like this!! She absolutely refuses to take any personal responsibility for her own life and is forever playing a victim of things like the medical system, her employer, her boyfriend – the list goes on. Sometimes she’ll rant for an entire hour about all the drama in her life, and then asks me how I live so peacefully. I tell her it’s a conscious decision, and begin describing some steps she can take. Of course, each step is met with an excuse as to why she can’t possibly follow through.
I’ve known her for 12 years and it has never changed. She’s 38 years old and still has no clue how to live. She thinks she can switch jobs and living arrangements like a drunken, wandering 20 year old. She’s burnt all bridges possible, after mooching off people and getting handouts for the last several years. On Facebook, she goes from some weird façade of enjoying the sunset or the week’s latest hobby, to bizarre emotional rants about how everything and everyone are against her. It’s become increasingly difficult to stay friends with this woman, as she refuses to proactively make changes to the life she complains about. I worry for her mental state, and would love to help her, but don’t know how.
Now that I'm writing this, I'm realizing the exact same behaviors occur with my sister and an ex-coworker friend. I think many of us lived like that in our younger years, before emotional maturity developed properly – but living like that now would drive me completely insane!
Many people who keep
Many people who keep repeating chaotic behavior came from families where such was the norm when they were children. Do you know much about your friend's childhood?
Such things can be deeply ingrained and you are not equipped to fix her unless you have the time and you are a trained psychotherapist and then only if she wants to change.
What often happens when you try to help chaotic people like that is they draw you into their drama by frustrating you, getting you angry, and before you know it, you're so pissed off at her behavior that you yell and scream at her, thus fulfilling her expectations that you too are full of drama and she has to fight back.
Chaos R Us - my mother’s M.O.
My mother had formally diagnosed Borderline PD, but my opinion is that she was also high in narcissistic traits, and she was a sort of human tornado of Chaos. I grew up afraid of her because she had a volatile temper that could trigger into a full-blown screaming rage at any moment, and include physical violence directed at me and my younger sister. So, yes, I buy the theory that those high on the narcissism scale or those who have full-blown NPD tend to exist in self-generated chaos. Keeping other people off-balance seems to work for the narcissist, somehow. Growing up in Chaos has sent me in the opposite direction: I live alone, I crave peace and serenity, and I tend to be avoidant. Ah! Solitude!
Reply
Borderline PD is really just Narcissistic PD with greater emotional volatility. All Cluster B personality disorders are based in a neurological lack of empathy--i.e. sociopathy.
What if you identify?
When I read articles like this one they always make me wonder, what if the reader identifies with the disorder? What should they do if they want to do self development work? Besides go to a professional, what can they do to be better to themselves and the people around them?
There is little to help you
Some writers on Psychology Today have written a very few posts on how to help people with narcissist traits. You can do a search and maybe find them. Other than that, there is little out there. People have a visceral reaction to narcissists, I wish there was more help for them. I have two narcissists in my family and my life has gotten much better by gaining an understanding about them, and what their hot buttons are. Occasionally, a narcissist family member can have an honest conversation about their behavior, and we can address the challenge. Life isn't perfect but it has improved.
Anyone with NPD is unlikely
Anyone with NPD is unlikely to identify with these traits. They are completely blind to it. They are unable to reflect.
I read this and I'm thinking...
Maybe they are just people with no ability to see the big picture: not able to evaluate their contribution compared to that of others, not able to plan for buffers so always late, not able to invest a lot in a project for a long time and therefore expecting immediate results, judging people on details like image because they are unable to see past it.
It's like they don't make the link between actions and consequences.
Great article. In my opinion,
Great article. In my opinion, all the personality disorders in cluster b, narcissism, borderline, histrionic, antisocial- you could even throw in OCD sometimes, these people are basically sociopaths. They are all the same-manipulative, exploitive, they cause chaos, they degrade, devalue then discard you. No different then a serial killer really. They just kill you emotionally and financially. Figure out why you are attracted to them-usually never felt loved as a child-develop good boundaries, find good people in your life, then come back and make the narcissist accountable. Lol.
What really is narcissim?
Whenever I read about narcissism on the internet, I am not sure whether its a sort of moral problem being addressed or a psych condition. There arent a lot of research facts being cited on the brain or the DNA or the trauma history or other significant causation details. Its almost always framed in the idea that these are bothersome people that society would like to tag for being that way. Other internet articles claim it is an incurable and latent personality trait... a sort of philosophy of inheritance. ... This article says there is narcissism in normal people and then there is pathological narcissism in extreme-behaving people. Is narcissism really a disease or abnormality or, is it a dysfunction of the need to preserve status (a primal need we have from the time of being born and developing survival skills), a dysfunction of a completely necessary impulse that varies on such things as intensity of personality (genetics and family traits), social group belonging (status, skin color, sex), and underlying veritable mental health conditions (adhd, autism, anxiety). Also I have to wonder about this one: Is being in touch with a lot of people really a trait of narcissism? Is needing attention and praise a trait of narcissism? Arent we social animals? Doesnt feedback produce developmental response? From my perspective as a mother, narcissism is the issue of an upbringing that is impoverished of reasonable, caring adults. Its a poverty of social rites of passage being made. ALL society encourages having a lot of referrences, reaching a broad audience, putting ones accolades forward. Has anyone thought that maybe the rat race has something to do with it? Or how does one move from being a necessarily assertive, must-be-selfish to be seen and survive child, to an adult whose life hinges on chaos and self-willed confidence through it? Did our hero narratives, our virtual media, and our "problem solving skills" curricula not play a role here? Did possibly even exceptionalism and Americanism, and lonliness and inequality, loose these canon-narcissists out into the world by what has been deigned within a competitor-conqueror society? Is it a stretch to think maybe some people *arent* good enough in all the ways we have been told we *must* be? That there are other ways to live, ways we were told never pursue if we want our desired success. ... that we have been taught to avoid every pitfall.... shelter shuffled out of rain.... that our nerves are literally never able to know the elements and grasp on boundaries sufficiently? To be a literally desensitized generation is, apparently, to be the narcissist and victim generation. I think most people are BOTH because these are relational parts of our beings. Rational narcissists (self aware people with a self-confident act), are successful people. Emotional narcissists or irrational narcissists are those who lack the skills of the role models they wish they could emulate. Having been a student through the 90s and 00s, I know how much role models mean to educators. As well intended as the role model or Great Minds concept was to inspire greatness, genius, scholarship and merit in my generation, it was also a very elite look at the world. The only thing that kept me grounded was writing poetry, painting, listening to music.... unfortunately being a powder puff and enchanted explorer doesnt pay the bills and so go to step two-- college. Now step three--your day job and side gig(s). Again, the narcissist is just one of the types of people to be seen thrashing or escaping if they are not prospering and growing. There really needs to be a return to ordinary developmental education and *truly* equal opportunity advancement, a society that isnt oppressed by law or regulated by threatened impoverishment by way of failure to take advantages.
Post
Ty for your perspective. Your post is excellent and sincerely made me think from many different angles.
yes
Thank you for writing this. I also feel like narcissists are written about irresponsibly and without consideration of the culture they are born from. Our society, the rat race, the obsession with looking busy/not taking sick time is not conducive to good mental health. Its seen as downright patriotic, successful, and well-intentioned to be in a constant state of busyness and sometimes chaos.
Finally some sense.
This is where the discussion needs to be rather than the "My ex needs to be labelled as something I don't actually understand because he did all this stuff that I call narcissism... blah blah blah" . Bravo for moving things on.
To see a very visible example of a narcissist...
All we have to do is look at the current occupant of the oval office. He loves chaos, fighting and infighting. He's on his third marriage and paid off mistresses, can't plan anything, can't be relied on to keep his word, addicted to lies and finger-pointing.
You Forgot
You forgot a couple things about President Trump. He's been a consistent success over several decades, and he's been a kick-ass President!
Narcissitic chaos
I am in total agreement with you... doing what he said he would do... and not apologizing for the USA all the while like the former lackluster President .
Regardless of Trump's level
Regardless of Trump's level of success or not or anyone's opinion on that count, what I've amused myself with is predicting what he'll do by using a simple narcissistic principle. Given a choice of two or three things he could do (short of being obviously destructive or irrational in an immediate sense), the most likely course of action is the the one that will result in the most attention on Trump, maximizing the number of people who will talk about him, buzzing about how to handle the disruption he's caused, etc.
It's all about Trump, all the time. Every cable news channel is now the "Trump channel".
Good article
I really appreciate everything written here in this piece. Thank you.
I have a sibling who displays many of the characteristics of the narcissistic personality, especially the extreme emotional fluctuations, and what I am coming to believe is an actual addiction to a lifestyle characterized by frenzied stress. They are always extremely "busy," they constantly gripe and complain about being "so busy." But they do absolutely nothing to reduce their stress that makes sense. Instead, they self medicate with constant large doses of "medical" marijuana as well as alcohol. I fear that they will have to hit absolute rock bottom before they are willing to stop the manic pattern of their life and be healed. It's terribly distressing for me to watch them. Absolutely heartbreaking.
cyclothymic features
Just wanted to say - only on basis of what you've written about these studies - it can be difficult to distinguish this kind of behaviour from hypomanic. It is disturbing that authors mention about mood swings and yet don't seem to take it into account. Anhedonia and nihilism is very often experience on bipolar spectrum. The cyclothymic disorder in today's lenses is much more common, than most professionals notice. Every evidence points that cyclothymia is neurodevelopmental disorder and has influance on many psychophisiological dimensions, personality including. It is pity that is so rarely noticed, because these folks don't get proper therapy.
Sorry but some of these posts
Sorry but some of these posts seem to be written by narcissists. Like verbal masturbation sorry to say. They ramble and are way off topic. This article is pretty simple-it does a great job of explaining narcissism. The post by the mother-yes society has a role to play also in the development of a narcissist buy the main causes are the parents. Not enough attention-neglect or the wrong kind-sexual abuse, physical abuse et cetera. There are other variables of course. I am just sick of personality disorders. So many of them.
Narcissitic chaos
Wendy---unless you have been fully involved with a person with NPD you really have no idea how deep this goes . Yes, the mother thing is rampant with the person I knew---he made no bones about calling her a whore and floozy. We had a two hour conversation one night about all the slights and lack of nurturing she gave him. Till this day, the pain is so evident. Women to him are mere objects---you may have heard the term "objectify" the current partner. If I had not been in therapy for the marriage dissolving I would not have known very much about the Cluster B disorders of which I believe he has several. I truly did not know what kind of manifestations I experienced from him.. I could not make any sense of the sudden misinterpretations of what I might have said to him. The silent treatment was entirely baffling to me.. he was punishing me for unknown things I may have said ---even the new wife said she was "walking on eggshells" half the time. He has been arrested for domestic violence and now she has the RO out on him as did previous wives. I know he was devalued by his own mother--I even asked him one time , "why don't you like women". He looked at me with a blank stare . He despises his sister who has done well in life . Every thing he tries has caved in on him and why? Because of his need for constant ego building and lying , all under the guise of being a Christian. Now at this late stage of his life, how do you mend all the hurts and pain you have caused yourself and others? I pray for him daily and don't hate him but understand now why he is a broken damaged human being.
It has to be the same guy
My ex narcissist :
1) Has big mommy issues. I won't go into them here, but she's a piece of work.
2) Hates his one sister that is doing well in life. They barely speak. He has a stressed relationship with other members of his family, and can be quite mean to them on Facebook at times. Yet, can also speak very lovingly toward them.
3) Blames everyone for everything. Has had multiple businesses and they have all failed, mostly due to poor planning and lack of follow-through.
4) Is a bible-thumping Christian in a big way, but has not entered a church since I've known him. He has no problems telling people when they are not practicing his brand of Christianity. He does love an affirmation and devotional.
5) He wants people to pray for him, and doesn't mind asking. I don't he prays for anyone else though.
6) He has been arrested and charge with domestic violence.
Narcissitic chaos
Mine drove a charter bus at one time and had a horse farm which i believe he did not own in Alabama. If that is the same guy , send me the initials. Basically, he grew up in deep South . His mother has been dead for about 12 years now. Sister lives in Georgia. I would be darned surprised if they were one and the same..
I guess not physically one and the same but...
...the similarities are amazing. I also didn't mention that he met most of his wives on Match. Mine divides his time now between Oklahoma and Texas(when things get too hot in one state he moves to the other). I met him years ago in another state. I was lucky. The only other person who knew his history was a distant acquaintance. The acquaintance had the fortitude to step out of his comfort zone and pull me aside. The man didn't go into any detail but warned me that my beau was big trouble. I was smart enough to listen. It's a very long story but I will end it here. For the commenters who are referencing mommy issues as the cause, you are right on the money. The narcissist's mother not only ruined his life, but pretty much the lives of all six of her children. You've never seen such dysfunction. She should have been arrested and charged with child neglect and child abuse. Her children should have been removed from the home. In this day and age, she most certainly would have been prosecuted under the fullest extent of the law.
Narcissitic chaos
No one realizes what you experience with someone with this disorder. I could not understand the roller coaster ride I was on for almost 18 months. The sad fact is that there are many of them in the world , men and women, who have had terrible upbringing from a callous parent . I was once told that if you start dating a man and tells you he had serious issues with his mother.... RUN LIKE HELL. I can only say I survived this attack on my already fragile ego. I was the perfect empath and ego stroking woman at that time in his life. I fully expect that after this new marriage implodes on him he will contact me ---it's the pattern they employ after most discards. I am ready for this tactic. My life is my own now and so grateful for coming out of a giant fog.
Will he contact you?
You can expect it, absolutely. You let him in once, he'll try again. Install extra door locks would be my advice.
What really is narcissim?
I honestly think this is the most stupid topic.... from a therapy perspective anyway. Narcissists--- incurable swiss-cheese brains with pathetic pasts. Is there a anything more to see? Why prolong the side show?
This looks to me like an affluent-psych perspective on the issues of commoners and victims of fallen nobility. We see something here like misogyny (mommy-issue blaming, the selfishly un-nurturing and survivalist mother) and another thing we all have learned to hate (the ceo-class middle aged white male). Put a bow on it and endorse it, and now there is a brand-new, grown-up stigma to follow all of those ADHD or borderline diagnosed kids of the 80s and 90s.... kids who were antagonized in similar step. Who is doing this and why?
As for the mommy issue blaming, it is nothing less than misogyny, just as the deadbeat dad rhetoric of the 90s was misandry. I waved a salute off to my wayward and now deceases father a long time ago. While he was villified for apparently fracturing my society (though I believe the stigma my entire family and society made me have to hide was far, far worse), he was never blamed for an entire personality disorder in the deadbeat dad sense of victimhood. I thanked him for giving me life, for that twirly hug he gave me once when I was 3, and for the album collection of 70s music. But are moms let off the hook as easily?
Never. People kick that rusty can down the road for decades: "My mom took away my porno" "My mom chose a really ignorant fuck to be me stepdad" "My mom was too much a bitch. Yet she never stood up for me or my siblings" "My mom worked a ton yet she was poor. I think it was because she was stupid" .... and from women its more subtle "My mom betrayed me" "My mom shamed me" "My mom wasn't perfect but she needed me to be perfect." Etc, ETC. .... Never does it ever come up that mothers are important people who anyways get treated like shit by just about everyone, including: Their parents, their partners, their children, their government, even agencies and feminists and the law and the socioeconomic system. There is no right way to be a woman without being shamed other than being warm and gracious. And even then a shame can be added: She's too whimpering or too goddamn nice.
If narcissism has a cure maybe its: Stop involving yourself with your mother on the distorted boundary and try forming a new contract with life. Your mommy owes you ZERO. She gave you LIFE to this world so bid her adieu justly and move TF on with yours, and be grateful you have one, OK? Same as you would have if it were your dad we were talking about here (Thanks, Dad! I am listening to Janis Joplin right now!).
Narcissitic chaos
So why are all the subsequent women in a Narc's life made to pay for the lack of parenting or nurturing by an avowed mysoginist ? Some people can handle disappointment and exclusion better than others. Some people can get over the sadness and forgive the offending parent. And some people can not---that is why there is a never ending procession of gullible empaths they use for a time and get bored , only to do the discard dance. Just my humble opinion.
a little confused
The first few paragraphs describe a disorganized person but not someone who is overtly narcissistic. Disorganized and having soft boundaries, being too unsure of oneself is usually one that narcissists target, not who they are. Unless they use their disorganization as a means of controlling others or making it look like they are overwhelmed doing something so important that they can't be bothered with anything else. The narcissist that creates chaos in my life is not like this. This narcissist creates chaos by going into a relatively peaceful family gathering and picking arguments with people for his own amusement, usually on topics that have little concern to anyone. I ended up being this persons target for decades because I stood up to him and told him he was causing trouble. He escalated and created so much more chaos and manipulated people into thinking I had something to do with it, when anyone who was not blind, deaf and not bamboozled by him could see he was the sole source of the chaos. The narcissist aggressively ruined my place in my family and continues to do so. I can't have a connection to the rest of my family without this person it seems no matter how hard I try and I can't divorce this person because he is not my spouse. I haven't found any literature that addresses the level of cyclic family abuse, substance abuse, narcissism and chaos that this person and his spouse, my actual family member have brought to our family or the extent of the damage done. I have no practical advice for dealing with it, can't get away from it and the affects ripple through the family and time. This person has destroyed a beautiful family and took the rubble and built his fortress with it and is now gloating about it. Really pathological clever narcissists like this also have along line of criminal behavior that they always manage to avoid getting caught and convicted doing. There is no justice in this world.
Your Family
Sounds like mine. Very clearly phrased. I am a soft hearted person who speaks the truth in a plain and kind way. Raging family member has something against me. I do not know what - and has successfully disenfranchised me from family joys.
You say there is no justice - probably not - except that at least you are not that person, so that is something to be grateful for. It is pathetic that one person wields so much destruction on their own flesh and blood. I wish you good luck.
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In the field of psychology, we deeply love and value people and feel most especially protective about those most vulnerable among us. Why are we giving any thought to research coming from Penn State? This university continues to celebrate Joe Paterno who for years knowingly hid credible information that should have been reported so children could be protected. If the University would have ceased all celebration of a man who enabled the raping of at-risk children, then it could be argued that once they found out about this horrific lack of action they settled matters in a manner that respected the victims. But that is not the case, they still officially celebrate Paterno, and for that, consumers of information should not patronize any of their work. Researchers who are still at Penn State after their Paterno celebrations, unless they are part of the "resistance" faculty which has yet to be reported, can ask themselves if they want to be associated with a University that condoned and celebrates hiding information that could prevent child sexual abuse. We have the ability to choose who we work with- where we spend our money and attention shows our belief systems. If we do read and give weight to research coming from Penn State after the Paterno scandal, then we are saying that we are all right with their endorsement of Paterno, and I, for one, am NOT.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:In the field of psychology, we deeply love and value people and feel most especially protective about those most vulnerable among us. Why are we giving any thought to research coming from Penn State? This university continues to celebrate Joe Paterno who for years knowingly hid credible information that should have been reported so children could be protected.
I think you're overdoing your reaction. Penn State is a big place with many people who have great morals and had nothing to do with the scandal. It's about like some of my European friends who don't like Trump and therefore are thinking of not buying any American products, even though some of them are made in factories by people who hate Trump, etc. etc. If you want to "teach somebody a lesson", you need to target your rage in a more specific way.
wrote:If the University would have ceased all celebration of a man who enabled the raping of at-risk children, then it could be argued that once they found out about this horrific lack of action they settled matters in a manner that respected the victims. But that is not the case, they still officially celebrate Paterno,
No, actually, they don't all do that, so your argument falls apart.
wrote:and for that, consumers of information should not patronize any of their work. Researchers who are still at Penn State after their Paterno celebrations,
Yeah, uh huh, they shoulda leave, teachers there should all quite, and all 83,000 students there should be told they can just try to enroll somewhere else to finish their degrees, and all the 10,000's of people working there should find jobs elsewhere, and the buildings should be abandoned, razed, and the place should be bulldozed and made into a memorial park? Would that make you happy? Yeah, that'll teach all those 83,000 students a good lesson won't it, for not dropping out of school in protest.
wrote:If we do read and give weight to research coming from Penn State after the Paterno scandal, then we are saying that we are all right with their endorsement of Paterno
Actually, no. I, and most reasonable people, would never be that stupid.
wrote:and I, for one, am NOT.
That's your choice. Not sure that's really teaching anybody a "lesson" in any meaningful way however.
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