I think it is rude that you say dylan looks demented. I think that is almost antisemitic. He just looks like an older Jewish man with roots in Eastern Europe. How will you look when you are his age? I know both of these people and they both have a dignity. Get a life yourself.
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The Great Baez-Dylan Love Affair
Joan Baez and Bob Dylan's love affair captures a generation.
Posted Oct 15, 2009
Those of us in our sixties — veterans of the sixties — had to be moved by the PBS American Masters biography of Joan Baez: How Sweet the Sound. The documentary recalled great and bitter moments, highlighting Baez's brief relationship with Bob Dylan, the greatest musical lyricist of the twentieth century. Their relationship is history — the history of a generation, of modern music, and of the remembrance of things past.
That Dylan agreed to be interviewed for the tribute was surprising, although this legendarily guarded man has become slightly more accessible recently. I hadn't heard Dylan before being so complimentary of Baez, saying that, from the start, he loved "Joanie's" soprano voice and her cotton-picking guitar style and that he was honored by "Diamonds and Rust," Baez's bittersweet tribute to their love affair written a decade ("a couple of light-years") afterward.
David Crosby said he wasn't sure of Baez's feelings for Dylan (she said, of course, she was crazy about him — "speaking strictly for me, we both could have died then and there"). But he knew Dylan was crazy about her — worth contemplating given the emotionally constricted public pose Dylan has affected throughout his life.
It was good to see their duets again, which were remarkable musically and emotionally. They were such an interesting intersection of musical traditions. Baez was top gun when they started, with her haunting renditions of classic folk ballads, bringing them to a mainstream audience for the first time.
But, as one commentator explained, the genre had to generate new material to become a leading edge in modern music, and that simply left her in Dylan's dust. (Bob Dylan's evolution during the 1961-1966 period from folk singer to "voice of a generation" to rock star is captured in Martin Scorsese's 2005 documentary, No Direction Home.)
The PBS special elucidated the 1965 English horror trip — traced at the time in the film, Don't Look Back — from Baez's perspective. She recounted how she resented that Dylan didn't invite her on stage in England to reciprocate the boost she gave his early career when he appeared at her concerts. Baez didn't want the boost; she wanted the emotional acknowledgment. Now Dylan chalks up the crash-and-burning of their relationship on that trip to the craziness of the period, which he indicated screwed him up. But it is also about his ungenerous nature (expressed throughout the fictional 2007 documentary, the remarkable and baffling I'm Not There). Was this coldness a necessary concomitant to his greatness?
Baez detailed how Dylan rejected the openly political role she wanted him to play, which she herself played out to such a life-defining degree, and how now she would never have insisted on that. As political issues became more foggy (with integration and Vietnam off the table), the Dylan approach turned into a better career choice.
Baez also confessed her regret about the resentments her political commitments created in her son, and said she would now act differently. At the same time, she said this was who she is, and that she couldn't have chosen otherwise.
The single most surprising image of Baez in the PBS special was from the 1975 Rolling Thunder Revue concert tour (which reunited her with Dylan and a host of sixties musical figures). Baez is shown briefly laughingly dancing a sexy, funky dance — who has seen this part of her? That she suppressed this side of herself in favor of her characteristic steadfast earnestness may partly explain why such a beautiful, passionate woman had nothing more than < 1-year relationships (she referred ruefully to her promiscuity). Her revenge is that she is a great-looking older person, while Dylan looks demented.
Ah, the choices we all make, that we sometimes regret, but that — if we are honest with ourselves — we would repeat exactly if we were returned to the same situations.
Stanton Peele has been empowering people around addiction since writing, with Archie Brodsky, Love and Addiction in 1975.
He sure was cute when he was young
Of course, she was so beautiful it's almost painful.
what religion as to do with
what religion as to do with the matter ? Get a life yourself !
rude to dylan
I came to dylan around the same time as the author, I think. I was about 9, but had a brother who was 16 and bought the albums. He does look, if not demented, haunted compared to the smoothness of Joan Baez's untroubled demeanor. I saw her in concert 25 years later and she had greyer hair. That's all the aging she's done as far as I can see. And her voice is as crystalline and pure as ever.
His voice has gone all gravel. I still love it, but this is just a fact. Further, my father and my brother are jewish men with eastern-european roots and they don't have this tormented look.
It's a comparison and it's pretty much indisputable. I love the music too, but he is imprisoned in his greatness like a beetle in amber. It's a jail and he is never free of it. God bless him.
Fame is a curse, both diamonds and rust.
BOB DYLAN
I attended a BOB DYLAN concert about ten years ago and he appeared extremely well and gave a great two-hour plus show, perhaps 2500 in attendance of all ages, old hippies, teens, and little kids. that alone is remarkable for any performer. and no, he was the same old Dylan, didn’t schmooze the crowd, a man of few words, it was all music from every phase of his long career.
Like piccaso, he went thro’ several startling transformations, for example, when he went electric, or went country, many fans were outraged, but most of us came back and tried to understand he was stretching and growing. In the meantime, he captured a whole new audience. and his music was always fresh and uniquely dylan.
I believe he got some odd kind of satisfaction of the shock factor when he changed gears, like when he did an ad for a car manufacturer during a recent superbowl appearance. he was in effect telling us he is never afraid to try new challenges to reach a wider audience.
and as to JOAN BAEZ, she was madly in love with that guy. If you watched their performances together or videos of them, it is obvious she was smitten, the way she looked at him. It seemed for him, all he was interested in was the music. maybe he was afraid of getting tied down by staying with her, that his “wild streak” would risk being tamed by her dedication to her need to be in a protest movement.
when I saw him in concert these many years later, he was still the same lone wolf. he was more interested in creating music than fostering relationships. VIVA BOB DYLAN!
Demented?
What do you mean Dylan looks demented? I have to say that sounds strange coming from someone with so many letters behind his name. Even the scantiest knowledge of Dylan's work in recent years would show that he is still a unique voice in American culture. He continues to write superbe songs (not forgetting his Chronicles) and has even branched out to art. And you think he's demented? Apart from being "so beautiful it's almost painful", what exactly has Baez been doing since her 3 or 4 years of glory in the early 60s?
I'm retaliating
because Dylan calls Baez, "Joanie."
Dylan
Okay lets just say he's butt fu** ugly, which is more appropriate!
Baez' guitar technique
"cotton picking" refers to Elizabeth Cotton (think "Freight Train Blues") so should be Cotton-picking.
Thanks.
I knew that - but I saw references to "cotton-picking" now as a generic term (perhaps unfortunately associated with cotton pickers). But I'm glad someone else is around who remembers Elizabeth Cotton!
Elizabeth Cotten's name
It's never been "Cotton." It's not "cotton picking," as in fields. It's Cotten, as in Elizabeth.
I was finding this
I was finding this interesting until I reached the point where you say Dylan looks demented. What an absurd comment! Takes away all of your credibility.
That is absurd that you
That is absurd that you called Dylan "demented looking". He looks far better than most any man his age. Never overweight, fit, with a good smile when he flashes it, an expressive face and a full head of hair! How often have you seen him?
Sounds demented, too
How are you enjoying his Christmas album?
http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2009/09/confirmed_bob_dylans_christmas.html
Just picked it up for a
Just picked it up for a listen. Here come's Satan's claws,
here comes Satan's claws write down Satan's claw slaying.
The mad cellist of Sarajevo vignette was powerful and touching.
My older brothers brought his first records into the house and
I was hooked as a lad. Why settle for less. He casts a large shadow
across the music field and beyond even you, still going barefoot.
How funny, that psychology
How funny, that psychology never seems to get a hook into humor. Trying to downgrade Dylan's work by despising his sidesteps into genres he enjoys is downright sad. I myself find no joy in christmas songs, so his take on it doesn't touch me, but I would never take it as a touchstone. The video that appeared of one of its songs had me falling to the floor laughing though, brilliant! And try and listen to his late period masterworks, especially Love & Theft and Tempest, lyrically and in terms of music, they're something special and go deep, real poetry full of soulsearching, and sung with more emotion than most singers can do. And if this reaction sees you fit to categorize me as one of those lunatic fans of the Zimmerman cult, that would betray you as one more psychologist that only sees black and white and believes in lables, but the rest of the article betrays you as a bit more subtle than that... It's a pity you got caught up in a few clichés, the rest is allright by me...
Dylan's Christmas album
Love it and listen to it every year at Christmas. Nothing demented about it whatsoever.
demented comment
Dr. Peele's "demented" comment reminds me of a story concerning the old "Camera Camera" television show from the middle 1960's. During one of the gags, during which a Candid Camera actor was behaving in a peculiar manner at a lunch counter in the attempt to elicit astonished responses, one bystander whispered in the ear of show producer Alan Funt that the guy was "crazy," and gave his name and credentials as a licensed psychiatrist to give credence to this "professional opinion." Shaken when the ruse was revealed, the "expert" gave written permission for his recorded "diagnosis" to be used on national television. Fortunately for him, Mr. Funt had the sense not to use this clip, realizing that the psychiatrist did not consider the deleterious effect this comment could have had on his professional career. Since the editor of this website did not have this good judgment, perhaps Dr. Peele could publish on the site a retraction of his statement, perhaps inconsequential if made by a layman or ordinary critic, but - at the least - professionally embarassing to have been made by a credentialed expert, one licensed to make diagnoses which carry life-altering consequences.
"Demented" Dylan
Whilst I agree that Dr.Peeles description of Dylan as looking demented was ill chosen,I cannot see how anyone could interpret it as in any way antisemitic.Bobs demeanour to my eyes is unchanged over the last 40 years that I have taken an interest in him.He always appears to me to spend his inner life in a different(better)place or is always anxious to seek a way of getting there.Rather than demented,this to me displays a vibrant,active mind.
Demented?
He looks old. Oldish. Joan Baez looks good for her age. BD lived a little harder than she did, though, I think. But, demented is a strange word choice. My Gram looks lovely, but she suffers dementia. Perhaps a thesaurus is needed before submitting further articles.
Dear Anonymous,
Just give me you e-mail address (is that anonymous@gmail?) and I'll contact you for the right word. In fact, if you don't mind, I'll clear my posts entirely with you before submitting, so that way I'll get them completely correct. As payment, I'll throw in Dylan's Christmas album.
You seem offended. Just
You seem offended. Just submit to a copy editor. That should be fine. But do buy the Christmas album... it's for charity.
Does that mean
I can't count on continuing to get your judicious comments on my writing, Mr. (or Ms.) Anonymous? You can't possibly spare the time? I was already anticipating how much my posts would benefit from your editorial inputs! (Please feel free to edit this comment.)
S. Peele is a basket of shit.
S. Peele is a basket of shit.
Baez: Emotionally honest
I've always been impressed by Joan Baez's honesty, and she made her feelings about Bob Dylan plain not only in "Diamonds and Rust" but also in her two autobiographies. She was, is, and always will be a class act. Dylan is an American icon, but he never deserved her.
Finally!
Somebody responding to emotional truthfulness!
Excuse my poor English, but...
If someone decides to called Bob Dylan demented-looking, should that not be at this persons own expense? Why argue about personal taste in external looks?
Furthermore I feel it is a bit arrogant to determine if Bob Dylan deserves Joan Baez or not, is it not? I am sure that non of us knows the whole/true/real story, right? Maybe Dylan was the best lover she ever had? Maybe he was extremely affectionate when they were alone.
Things has been said written and sung, but why not just cherish the music from them both and stop arguing - I am pretty sure that they can manage their own lives and that they would appreciate if we did not argue - both are pacifists, so let us all get along, right?
Have a good one all!
"Demented" is not just an eight-letter word
Dr. Peele - Would you diagnose as "demented" one of your clients/patients based solely on his or her appearance and/or voice? And no rhetorical dodges - only a person with a mind can be "demented"; to use this adjective to describe a voice or a "look" makes no sense, literally or figuratively.
Demented isn't used clinically
It's a subjective impression of a person's demeanor. I NEVER use clinical terms to describe ordinary people and behavior - I resist using them with clinical patients. However, "dementia" is a clinical term, and I admit I DO wonder if Bob is suffering from some degree of dementia whenever I see or hear him perform now.
now be honest ....
but I bet that's what you're really thinkin'
If you want my honest opinion
Bob Dylan is out of touch (which isn't what this post is about - if anything it connects with his past brilliance). He was always kind of loopy, but his edgy disposition has made it easier for him to finally veer completely off the mountain ledge of reality with age.
Crazy like a fox?
Fair enough, but I disagree with you. I think he is as wiley and in control as ever, just having a good time. Albert Goldman reported in his bio of John Lennon that the (pre-Sgt. Peppers) Lennon was vexed by the fact that Dylan could "get away with anything" concerning dress, his approach to the press, womanizing, drug use, etc., while he and the other Beatles had to stay within the boundaries (publicly, anyway) dictated by manager Brian Epstein and recording company executives. Joan Baez called Dylan "the original vagabond"; he might also be described as the "original outlier," for our time, anyway.
Kind Of Lopy
I don't find one that isn't "kind of loopy", so maybe I'm also "kind of loopy" :)
Before I can answer
whether you're loopy, Bob, I need more information. There's loopy, dopey, and lop-eared (e.g., Peter Cottontail). Can you tell me - Do you have a bushy tail? Are you very short? Did you release an xmas album where you grunted the lyrics to the carols?
Steve Martin is a wiseguy
All-time favorite Dylan quip--- Steve Martin hosting a Grammy where Dylan, beamed in live from an Austrialian tour performance (and looking like Vincent Price) received an award. Martin (paraphrased): And now here's Bob live from Australia. We have an 18 hour time difference but for Bob that's normal.
Btw, how does one's coinages and unique turns of phrase come to commonly populate newpapers, broadcast and spring naturally from lips in conversation.
Neat trick, how do you do that. Genius springs to mind but offers no explanation.
You recall, of course,
that, earlier this year, Dylan was arrested while walking around a seaside resort town before a concert in New Jersey (where I live) for looking suspicious (a woman called the police when she spotted him peering at neighborhood houses). He was released after being identified.
Turnabout is fair play?
In Jersey, he was scoping out the house in which Bruce Springsteen wrote his early hits, Born to Run, etc. Dylan has visited the former homes of many of his faves - Neil Young, John Lennon, Mark Twain, to name a few. Early in his career, Dylan visited Carl Sandburg at his home in North Carolina. When Dylan was living in Woodstock with his wife and children, he was constantly pestered by people trying to sneak onto his property, digging through his garbage, etc. Is pursuing an interest in visiting the past residences of one's favorite entertainers/artists a sign of dementia, doctor? I recently visited Graceland in Memphis, and if this is the case, there sure are a lot of demented people out there!
John, that all happens not to be true
This is your opportunity to realize how your life is run by urban myths. Do you believe in the disease theory of addiction?
http://www.esquire.com/blogs/culture/dylan-buble
No way is Dylan demented
This is a cruel review. First, the author condemns Dylan for his ungenerous personality. This in a review of a Christmas album whose entire proceeds are being donated to charities to feed the hungry. Then, the author takes advantage of his psychologist credentials to groundlessly assert that Dylan is demented--a low blow if ever I've seen one. (Senior citizens, no matter how competent, are vulnerable to ageist comments like this). I haven't heard the Christmas album and have no expertise in analysing photos for signs of dementia. I have, however, listened to the three other albums Dylan has released in his sixties--"Love and Theft", Modern Times, and last year's Together Through Life. These are among his best works, exceeding in musical craftsmanship anything he could have done in his earlier years. They are obviously the product of a keen and penetrating intellect.
Must take a Ph. D. to pick up on the dementia ...
I offer to Dr. Peele this post which summarizes the audience's reaction to Dylan's perfomance at the Hollywood Palladium on Oct. 15. :
It was then that I realized that Dylan has become more than a rockstar to most of these people. To them, and to me, he is a national treasure; a piece of history who tells of a world that is both inside his head and in the real world. While Elvis, John Lennon, George Harrison and Jimi Hendrix, people who many thought would be around forever, have all passed on, here is Bob Dylan, still standing behind his piano, still blowing away at his harmonica. To many people, he is the perfect manifestation of America. He is a scop in the truest sense of the word. He tells of days of old, but treats the stories as if they are happening now, and tells us where he wants us to go. To compare him Elvis and the Beatles is unfair. Rather, Dylan can be canonized with Walt Whitman, Mark Twain, Henry David Thoreau and other great American poets who wrote about their times and in turn, shaped them.
posted by eric m. garcia at 1:55 pm
Wow!
That's a tribute worth receiving. I wish I had the same feelings about his current persona. I DO feel that way about his body of work, however. For the many who post comments but have a difficult time keeping two opposing thoughts in their heads, I called Dylan the greatest musical lyricist of the twentieth century in the first paragraph of my post.
These folks missed the dementia, saw something else ....
I offer to Dr. Peele this post which summarizes the audience's reaction to Dylan's perfomance at the Hollywood Palladium on Oct. 15. :
It was then that I realized that Dylan has become more than a rockstar to most of these people. To them, and to me, he is a national treasure; a piece of history who tells of a world that is both inside his head and in the real world. While Elvis, John Lennon, George Harrison and Jimi Hendrix, people who many thought would be around forever, have all passed on, here is Bob Dylan, still standing behind his piano, still blowing away at his harmonica. To many people, he is the perfect manifestation of America. He is a scop in the truest sense of the word. He tells of days of old, but treats the stories as if they are happening now, and tells us where he wants us to go. To compare him Elvis and the Beatles is unfair. Rather, Dylan can be canonized with Walt Whitman, Mark Twain, Henry David Thoreau and other great American poets who wrote about their times and in turn, shaped them.
posted by eric m. garcia at 1:55 pm
Mr. Peele, We Can't Help
Mr. Peele, We Can't Help You.
Psychiatry and Mental Health Center
Sometimes, when I'm surfing YouTube
I watch various renditions of "Knocking on Heaven's Door" and "All Along the Watchtower." I prefer Bob's "Knocking" to Guns 'n Roses'- except it's too darn short! But some of the home versions of the song performed by unknown artists are achingly poignant. As to "Watchtower," I actually prefer the Hendrix and Neil Young versions - except that, on the all-star Dylan 30th Anniversary tribute album, I find myself drawn to the Young version of another Dylan song - the antically titled, "Just Like Tom Thumb's Blues" -
When you're lost in the rain in Juarez
And it's Eastertime too
And your gravity fails
And negativity don't pull you through
Don't put on any airs
When you're down on Rue Morgue Avenue
They got some hungry women there
And they really make a mess outa you
Now if you see Saint Annie
Please tell her thanks a lot
I cannot move
My fingers are all in a knot
I don't have the strength
To get up and take another shot
And my best friend, my doctor
Won't even say what it is I've got
Oh God, what a genius!
Bob Dylan's alleged chilling personality etc
Well, I don't think you are in a position to write him off as having a "chilling personality". Have you actually met this man? Do you know him at all, beyond what has been written about him? I have watched him (footage on YouTube) being interviewed in later years, and I was favourably impressed by Dylan's replies and by (what came across as) his honesty. All great performers have a public persona - you ought to be aware of this! - and possibly his hid a frail ego and a gentle person who found it hard to cope with fame and adulation, with the constant performing and touring, the very high expectations vast numbers of people had of him, and with being hounded by the press. I have recently watched early interviews with Dylan (again on YouTube)and I was very struck by how utterly shy he was back then; he had a sweet, gentle smile when young, and he was obviously very nervous during these interviews (pre-1966,ca).
Quite a few of us have behaved in a profoundly hurtful manner towards a lover we have "outgrown", or whom we wish to break off the relationship with. Dylan was in a public spotlight, and his behaviour was witnessed by many and commented on by many. That is the only real difference.
As for looking demented: No. Dylan does NOT look demented. He has a somewhat "careworn" face, but he is now very nearly 69 years old, for Heaven's sake! As one of the other people in this thread commented: Dylan looks like an ageing Ashkenazi Jewish man, and this is what he is, ethnically. Really, I would have expected better from someone with your credentials!
Perhaps we might be permitted to like both Baez and Dylan, albeit for different reasons? It isn't a question of either/or; is Baez the goodie and Dylan the baddie (or the other way round). This is a false dichotomy.
Demented
I'm laughing at Dr. Peele's comment. Dylan would probably laugh at it as well. But he's off creating music somewhere and I don't think he cares much about any comments made about him at this point.
I can see why you made the comment, Dr. Peele, but in this day and age how many celebrities DON'T look demented? It's almost a pre-requisite.
I think a lot of unique, interesting and brilliant people look demented. Einstein comes to mind. Dylan's contribution to the world makes up for his quirks at the end of the day.
Anyway I enjoyed your blog.
The Twerp
Bob Dylan has always come across as an arrogant prig. Breaking Joan's heart like he did is proof he was always a cad. Like Frank Sinatra though you have to ignore the man behind the voice.
"The unwashed phenomenon"
I totally agree with the author's remarks about Dylan. And mind you - I love Dylans work! It IS possible to aknowledge and enjoy someone's talents, and still not find them attractive when it comes to their human qualities. Joan Baez, on the other hand, I have loved her from the first minute I heard her sing, and I admire her life long commitment to political causes. I think she is remarkable. As to Dylan's "dementia", I trust Peele's suspicion, on the other hand, Dylan's particular persona exists in homeopathic literature as the "Sulphur persona", being a genius but also an egotistical, horribly egocentric person, a cold and often mean husband, only preoccupied with himself, but when the wife finally leaves him, he collapses totally. The Sulphur Persona is famous for his unwashed and bum-like appearance. And the genius degenerate both physically and mentally.
Dylan and Baez
I zoned out through high school and college so I never was into Baez or Dylan. I knew of them but knew little about them. The A,erican
masters documentarypn Jan Baez woke me up. I find it peculiar how closely people identify with Dylan who never identified with anyone but himself. How protective they are. How loath to accept your remarks at face value without prosecuting you vis their passionate protective defenses.
Here's a story about Dylan that is 100% true. A very attractive client of mine, from about fifteen years ago, knew Dylan and told me he had asked her out on a date. She refused to go. She found him unappealing and weird. Though she didn't call him demented she clearly was unimpressed. Turned off, even.
Though I was part of the few who were never fans, this story stuck in my mind. When I saw the American Masters segment on Joan Baez, I realized I had missed out on following a magical talent and a life well lived. While most of us live life for ourselves and those we are close to, some, like Ms. Baez go way beyond that. Comparing her to Dylan and saying her accomplishments were small in relation to his is a perspective lacking in vision. She led an in compromised life. She stood up and allowed herself to be counted. She was her brother's keeper. The result is that she has become a role model and inspiration for many on how to lear a truly expansive life. She belonged to the world. Dylan belonged only to himself. Dylan acquired fame. Joan Baez acquired greatness. There is absolutely no comparison.
As for his not inviting her onstage with him on the 19)65 Brittish tour, his behavior was emblematic of who he was. Like many geniuses: Self involved. Careless. And Without heart.
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