I'm not a therapist but this advice is shocking to me. I don't think anyone should put up with that **** for one minute. In my experience, there is no good outcome to an adult's temper tantrum and you don't 'help' anyone by tolerating their bad behavior. Hey, what if it was your kid with someone like that? Would you recommend they try not to take it personally? I wouldn't. I'd say get out as fast as you can and stay out.

For whatever reason—or possibly no good reason at all—your partner is blasting you. What do you need to do? Granted, many therapists would simply suggest you leave the scene. For, as a matter of personal dignity and respect, you’re hardly obliged to tolerate such abuse. But although such a response is warranted, it can be dangerous, too—and regardless of how churlishly or cruelly your partner may be treating you.
Whether the hurtful words they're hurling at you are right or wrong (and it’s safe to assume that at the least they’re exaggerated), raging people desperately need to be heard. So unless you’re so discombobulated by such a tongue-lashing that you can’t think straight or emotionally tolerate their highly-charged hostility, it’s almost always best to hang in there and attempt to “take in”—vs. react to—whatever they’re screaming at you for.
But first a crucial caveat: Neither you nor anyone else should repeatedly endure such abuse. And if it happens more than once or a few times—and seems neverending—then you definitely need to ask yourself why you remain in such a relationship, and whether you may need professional help to extricate yourself. Nonetheless, if this person who is prone to anger and rage can “own” their problem (vs. defensively project it onto you or blame you for provoking them) then—if they’re willing to undertake extensive therapy—their unacceptable raving behaviors may eventually become a thing of the past.
Again, no one deserves to be subject to constant abuse. But, if you look away from your assailant, or flat-out exit the scene, here’s the problem: Your verbal attacker may well conclude that you’re not taking them seriously, that you’re not even willing to hear them out. And their likely fragile ego, unable to handle what feels like outright dismissal—which may be far more painful to them than you might imagine, or that they’re even conscious of (or willing to admit)—may lead them to follow you as their agitated ranting continues to escalate. There are times when walking away from your “assailant” can so exacerbate the situation that what began as verbal becomes physical. And, if at all possible, such a truculent intensification obviously ought to be avoided.
But still, you certainly don’t want to take their insulting words “to heart”—as in "absorbing" them—particularly since in almost all instances their words are distorted, hyperbolic, or completely without merit. If you can contrive to keep yourself at sufficient emotional distance from your partner's verbal assault, you can listen to them at the same time you manage not to have their words puncture you. And what can be helpful here is taking several deep breaths and uttering to yourself the word “calm,” and maybe also a sentence such as, “This really feels scary but I can handle it." Moreover, it can be useful not to meet their glare head-on but—to better ward off their venomous energy—turn your body at a 45-degree angle from them. For such re-positioning can help you avoid what otherwise might feel like a “frontal assault.”
Remember, in all likelihood, the rage says a good deal more about that person and the gravity of their unresolved issues than it does about you. This is why it’s always useful to keep in the forefront of your consciousness the probability that your so-inflamed antagonist may hardly be reacting to you at all. Unconsciously, they may be perceiving you as some phantom from their past. So it's best to see their behavior as a kind of “temporary insanity,” for it would certainly seem they’ve taken leave of their senses, utterly lost their grip on reality.
Which is to say that up to this point your partner has never had the opportunity to emotionally come to terms with, or lay to rest, their original upset. Despite your inadvertently “triggering” their rage, it’s extremely doubtful that you represent its source. In their heated tirade against you, they’ve probably lapsed into their child self. So whatever they’re so stridently accusing you of, though it hardly needs to be agreed to, it’s nonetheless not a very good idea to communicate to them that their outburst is brutal, uncalled-for, or absurd. For in their seriously regressed state it may yet feel totally rational to them.
As counter-intuitive as it might appear, their self-righteous rage is generally best viewed as a frantic defense for them, as unconsciously contrived to stave off far more painful—and vulnerable—feelings coming dangerously close to the surface (such as feeling helpless, defective, rejected, ashamed, or unlovable). So in the moment criticizing them for their terrible temper can be experienced by them as nothing short of a direct assault on their (last-ditch) effort to protect their vulnerability, and so prompt them to become even more enraged.
Besides, people who are already boiling over emotionally can’t hear what you’re saying. So it’s not just a waste of breath to defend, justify, or explain yourself. In their super-aroused state, your doing so will only make them feel you’re totally dismissing the authenticity of their complaints.
It’s only after you’ve allowed them to fully express their rage without resisting it —which, frankly, is no mean feat—that it may subside. It’s only when their fury has worn itself out that they can be “restored” to their more reasonable adult self. Before then, whatever you say, and regardless of how you say it, your retort will probably only intensify their anger.

Yet I’d be remiss if I didn’t add that if—as rageaholics—they’re so disturbed that they meet the criteria for a full-blown personality disorder (narcissistic, borderline, paranoid, or sociopathic), it’s possible that, if their buttons really got hammered, they could rage for hours on end and still not cool down. And in such instances, you need to seriously consider leaving the relationship, or at least issue an ultimatum that unless they admit their problem and agree to get professional help for it, you will leave them.
But, in general, raging individuals are able to regain the capacity to listen and reflect on a viewpoint other than their own if you’re able first to make them feel heard, and even (to some degree) sympathized with.
Of course for you to truly understand what triggered them in the first place, you may need to ask them some questions and to do so with substantial tact and diplomacy. For if they experience your questions as “interrogations,” or as somehow patronizing, any remaining embers of their rage could get reignited. However, if you can accurately identify where their rage was coming from and convey this in a compassionate, non-threatening way, there’s a decent chance they’ll return the favor and hear you out the way you—so generously—have tried to do for them.
It’s certainly not always true, but most people do have a sense of fair play. So if you’ve been able to tolerate their abusive diatribe, they may indeed be willing to listen to, and appreciate, your experience—as well as validate the righteousness of your point of view toward whatever caused them to become so upset with you.
As I like to emphasize to my clients, as well as in many of my posts for Psychology Today, more than anything else people need to feel understood. So if you can figure out how to make them feel truly heard, their irrationally inflamed battle with you is likely—mercifully—to come to an end.
Rage Attacks
CH, you're 100% correct. The victim MUST get out and away from the "attacker" quickly. I've been personally physically (and emotionally) damaged beyond repair by such a sick man. I tried bringing in quite a few top therapists over many years. I'm so sorry I bothered. I wasted more of my time and life. HE never changed. I don't care why he was born with rage. Let him deal with that when he can't harm another trusting human being.
Rage and screaming in front of our kids
I have been married for 17 years and woyld love to get out of this marriage. My husband has been a raging, ranting raving mad man for the entire time and in front of our 3 kids. He has woken my kids up out of bed when they have school the next day, woke my baby up, grabbed our baby out of my arms, screams and yells profanity and names at me in front of the kids. My husband has all power over our finances and says without him I would have nothing, he has brainwashed my 16 year old son into hating me and has no RESPECT for me, and I can't let my 8 yr. old son and 12 yr. old daughter fall into this too. My kids don't deserve this nor do I, but I don't know what to do! We've been to 7 different counselors and I won't waste my time going to another one, but he blames me for everything and its of course all of my fault! I know he needs help and this started when his parents divorced and his bioligical father gave up his rights and his step dad adopted him, but he won't confront it. I'm so tired of him bad mouthing me to my kids and screaming and yelling all the time! I've in the past have went through so much and tried to commit suicide, but this is just one more thing he can hold against me to say I'm the Crazy One! How do I make him see what he's doing? I don't think he'll ever change, because he doesn't think he has a problem! HELP!!
raging
I totally agree with you, after I read the article i was shocked. I am living with a Narcissist /Sociopath who has raging over the most ridiculous things, He has taken over the finances since I am Disabled and says things like I hope you didnt strain yourself, lazy bitch, etc. He just raged tonight after I made dinner, packed most of his lunch and cleaned up even though I did not have to. He took the new pack of buns and I simply said, are the older ones gone? (He has an issue with always taking the best and last for himself. ) He said no but they are stale. I asked him why did you leave them in the cabinet then? Immediately he told me to get the eff off his ass. And went into full name berating. I walked away, he followed and I turned around and said Shut the eff up, now how do you like that? He shut up quick. I NEVER talk back or curse, so he stopped. I am so worn out from his gaslighting and raging, he lies to get whatever he wants at all costs. He has stolen money from my account when i was working and we were not married to give to his EX. Lied about a job promotion to get me to sell my home i owned for 13 yrs before he came along. the list goes on. I have recently found out about most of this. I would never talk all nice to someone who rages,if they are not going to get help i owe them nothing.
No way
No, not going to do it. I don't have people who behave in that manner in my life. Not a single one.
I had to tolerate the yelling when I was a child - each and every time it happened I swore I would not have people like that in my life as an adult. And I won't. I would never marry a highly emotional person either. Highly emotional outbursts totally turn me off.
I had to tolerate a very small bit of that behavior (although rare) in my career in the armed forces - but that was job related.
Life is way too short to put up with adult tantrums. I surround myself with positive people who are capable of expressing themselves calmly as a matter of routine. Would not have it any other way!
Totally agree
The long term impact of dealing with someone who has temper tantrums and screams vile personal insults at you can be devastating - my advice is never stay go as soon as you can especially if they are screaming vile unprovoked personal attacks. I feel what you are saying, I too am full of regret for not leaving. Mine occurred while going to uni in my first year with my sister who would numerous times call me a "looser", that "I'll never get a job" that "I'll never get a girlfriend" that "I'm an embarrassment to her" and she once said she "hoped my brother who suffers from psychosis commits suicide" - almost every attack was without a trigger, it could come at any time and often for no apparent reason. I can recall one time she blasted me with the aforementioned insults after I lost my wallet and the lady who found it called to return it. Another time she called me "warped" for using a torch to see at night on my way to the toilet - actually shortly after while I was in my room I could hear her screaming to my mother how embarrassing it was for her "to have 2 mentally ill brothers". A few times I engaged back, and alerted my father to the personal attacks who did not want to deal with it. In hindsight I should have left - the depression the insults caused me eventually were too much and I just had to leave home without notice - the triggers every now and then are usually family get together, having to listen to her say something incredibly mean is too much. I just totally avoid her.
Totally disagree
You have no empathy. I assume both of you have traumas which led you to sociopathic behavior.
I am diagnosed with depression, and I have mental breakdowns. Then I scream at other people, sometimes even personal insults. I have no control over my body. I can hear myself but I can't do anything about it. Xanax helps me, but only if I take it on time.
I wish your children will become like this, and then you abandon them. As you just said you would abandon every person like this.
What the?
Anonymous wrote:You have no empathy. I assume both of you have traumas which led you to sociopathic behavior.
I am diagnosed with depression, and I have mental breakdowns. Then I scream at other people, sometimes even personal insults. I have no control over my body. I can hear myself but I can't do anything about it. Xanax helps me, but only if I take it on time.
I wish your children will become like this, and then you abandon them. As you just said you would abandon every person like this.
How do you empathize with someone who calls you an embarrassment? states that they hope that you commit suicide? And all TOTALLY without provocation? Your post is borderline ridiculous. I would advise anyone receiving extreme personal attacks to leave the situation
Rage
Nick...I understand how you feel, but is deserting someone who needs you the right way to go? Maybe, after trying, you will find the partner cannot or will not be helped, and you will have to leave. But please folks, if you truly care, attempt pt to help them first.
Trained Psych or counselors
I don't know about all of you, but I am not a doctor or trained counselor. I never lived like this prior to the bf/ex. I ended up losing almost every single friend because preferably, he would want me locked up in a closet. Dealt with this for 30 years. Kept thinking it will get better. It didn't. He would have scary crazy meltdowns and of course, I was the blame. Who takes a cookie sheet and stands there hitting himself over and over on his head. Who goes crazy over me getting new glasses? Who takes the baby (2 mo. Old), while baby screaming of fear, and he tries to choke me? Or has a total breakdown over a bag of popcorn, presses on the gas, then just pulls over, leaves car door open (at night after a movie). He walks out leaving us with mouths open, People were stopping and asking if we're okay. I had to stay 100% calm so my child didn't freak. He used to do that just to me, but started again with the little guy. Thsee tantrums, rages were insane and it got worse. He twisted my hand, he would go and stand behind our child, grin and say you'll never see him again... His rages happened way to many times. Oh, and the lies! He was on the roll and getting worse with that.
No, no one should coddle a grown man. The guys in white suits should have taken him to a Psych facility. He made so many threats! Wouldn't allow me to go back to school either. Plans for visiting new friends, he purposely messed that up. He began lying to his parents and friends about me. I have PTSD because of him. No way are the abused trained for this. I tride getting away, he picked me up, threw me on the bed, jumped on top of me and covered my nose and mouth.
Assuming what you say is
Assuming what you say is accurate, this is a relationship that is blatantly toxic to you. Why are you still in it? Is there no way you can get out of it? It's not only toxic but could be quite dangerous to you as well. Please get whatever therapy might be available to you, if you don't have it within you right now to exit from the relationship. You may need a lot more support from others than you're getting now.
A Woman Is Most Likely to Get Killed When She Leaves
Hello Dr. Selzter,
The woman who said her spouse jumped on her and attempted to suffocate her as she tried to leave him is a textbook case on what domestic violence in the home looks like. I don't know how she survived that night; maybe she told him she loved him and maybe she said she never wanted to leave him again.
I recently saw a New York Times review about a domestic violence book that has been published. It's based on 30+ years of research, but it aligns with what I know about domestic violence both through my own training as a psychologist and as a volunteer at shelters. Here are what research has found:
1) If a woman who is in a violent relationship is there for the long-term, she is more likely to die at the hands of her lover/spouse or due to something his lover spouse did than any other way.
Caveat: I am referring to relationships that truly qualify as domestic violence. These are very different than toxic relationships.
2) If a woman is married to someone who engages in domestic violence, he will attempt to kill her if she is leaving or if she attempts to leave.
Since the commenter talked about how her abuser tried to suffocate her when she was leaving, this tells me that she is in a serious domestic violence situation.
3) Many women stay in very seriously violent relationships IF they have children with the man. While it looks to those on the outside that she is placating this person, she is not. This is a survival strategy. When they try to leave, it can get difficult - that is, IF she is still alive.
I live in a state where the court systems are known for believing the perpetrator OVER the victim. Why? Because that violent man knows how to turn on the charm for the court systems so that believe him. Abusive men can change their abusive behavior instantly IF they need to do so. I have even seen a seasoned female psychologist send children who were both physically and sexually abused by their father home to see him for Christmas. In fact, this man even told the seasoned psychologist himself that he got pleasure from sexually abusing his children. I asked her why on earth would she send this man's children to him for Christmas. She looked at me and said: "Because it's Christmas! You can't deprive a man of his children on Christmas. He promised me he won't sexually abuse them again and I believe him."
!!!!
Please don't delete my comment, I am NOT a troll; I am merely part of the new generation of psychologists. However, I am not young either. I waited until I was 40 to retire from a high-powered corporate job and I went back to school for a second Master's Degree and it was in Clinical Psychology. I am now in my late 40's and I specialize in helping people in very complex relationships. I am also a married, Jewish woman and my (Jewish) husband and I have children. I believe in the family unit and I believe in keeping families together. I also don't hate men. Moving on...
4) Even if a woman successfully leaves a marriage where she and her children were victims of domestic violence, she may lose her life one day.
I live in a state where something horrible happened. But, out of the ashes something that is saving the lives of many was born. Here os what happened. A woman was married to a very violent man and she had children. He was a police chief of a major city. They had 50/50 custody. Social workers dropped the children off. One day he stalked his EX-wife while she was heading to get groceries with her children. He came up to her car window and shot her several times in the head, in a public parking lot, while her children watched helplessly from the back seat. Thankfully, her parents were angry as hell and they sued the state. With that money they received from the state, they opened both day and night women's shelters. They opened a day shelter where there was daycare for the children and where the women could speak with trained therapists, attorneys, and there was always someone from the police force there. These women could get the help they needed while their children sat nearby playing with daycare staff. It was one of the most brilliant facilities I have ever seen and I hope that this type of facility is being recreated in all 50 states. They also set up night shelters where a woman got her own efficiency apartment. That way a woman and her children had their own apartment with it's own small kitchen and full bathroom.
This was all set up AFTER a woman had to lose her life to domestic violence. But, I admire her parents for suing the state since there had been many complaints against this chief of police and no one did anything until he shot his ex-wife - in cold blood - while the children watched helplessly. I love that this woman's parents sued the state and used the millions of dollars in funds to create an infrastructure where they could save the lives of other women and children.
Finally, there are women who are also capable of domestic violence. I have seen them in action and they are some of the scariest individuals I have ever seen. So, domestic violence is not just a male issue. Women can also be VERY violent.
For all readers: if you are truly in a relationship where domestic violence is occurring, please call the domestic violence hotline. They will help you plan on HOW to get out of your relationship without getting killed.
Sarah
Wow!! This is a dangerous situation!
This sounds like a totally dangerous situation that you're in! Don't just walk away from this situation--RUN, as fast as you can! Get help, on the double. It sounds as if your life is really on the line here! I wish you the best of luck in getting yourself and your kids out of this peril, once and for all!! Hope you do it--pronto!!
On December 23 1999, my
On December 23 1999, my husband had refused the overtime for the holiday pushing his right with his 25 years seniority to take the millennials off in the shutdown, make five men and women that had between 1 and three years seniority under the UAW contract cancel their plans even though as one man he could do the job of five with his experience. I had been crying most the year asking that he just work the holiday and when we returned on his birthday the fifth of January 2000 we would figure out how he could celebrate the new millennium and a vacation of his own.
He decided to fight for his right to decide for himself to go with me to Bavaria telling the whole group including his father, his friend on the county circuit bench, as well las myself that he was the one that was going to do as he pleased!
When two deputies showed up after his father and his judge friend had talked along with another two other deputies following. The original plan was to jail my husband till Christmas morning. Since we were already supposed to be in a In in Munich he would stay working as we had required and at work he would be left to celebrate the holidays by himself producing a parts bank for assembly startup on the second of January. Forcing him to stay and work that way was a bad scene because he was not going to cooperate no matter how much we begged and tried to get him to pick a different time and use vacation and personal time for his holiday after his birthday.
I would ask him what ever happened to peace on earth goodwill towards other people and even me and the group, we really did not need him to start a war again over holiday time off, the whole year I begged him just to be nice and take the holiday canvas and when we returned from Germany we could plan a new holiday from scratch for him.
Instead of the constant battle it had been with him since 1985 to just do his holidays, and vacations after the first of the year till March, be a community player that was looked up to since he would enable others to have a better outlook in life. Just be a giver instead of a taker and warrior against the area. I plead with him to look at brochure for exotic holidays since the rest of the world would be back home working he would be on vacation for 2 months completely paid with a huge war chest to do as he wanted getting nearly 7000 for the two weeks in double and triple time. Why would it be any skin off his nose if he did not celebrate the millennials with me in Germany. Have his own choice. He said that was the crux, he had not had any choices since he joined the navy 22 years before to avoid the layoffs caused by the oil embargos.
I plead that he could have had all things he had wanted not been working without a day off in 22 years if he would have just decided he was not going to fight about his rights, we would have had a family he would have slowly been included in peace not the war he started fifteen years before about something as stupid as his right to choose for himself. The first two deputies did not give him a warrant or signed court order or even charges why he was being jailed. That created its own problem in creating a paper trail of illegal activity in incarcerating my husband Those deputies were flattened by my husband and he paper trail started any way.
His wish for the season as he was literally dragged away after being tassed was that myself and the entire group die in a plane crash. All because he would not accept any other way of celebrating his new year.
We decided 2 days before his birthday to call his local union president to find out how the holidays went with my husband working, he told us the hell he was raising in the county, He had involved the national union and the American Civil liberties union we felt he was white what could they do. The judge was under arrest, the local union leadership censured. the county under threat of being sued for more than the county had, the sheriff resigning to stop the suit, lesser seniority were coming back to be terminated.
We were coming back to insult and hate in the family and what amounted to the death of any chance to make things work in our marriage all over his right to choose.
He was willing after that to kill someone to have his way when there were ways to have what he wanted just not when he wanted.
The next nine years was any cross or try and get him to try things our way ended up with someone bleeding and broken.
Over the vacation trips in 2003 and 2006 he made his father and me bleed and hurt even beat us over stealing and hiding his passport so he would be forced to take his vacation and holiday as we requested in January, he would body slam his father to the pavement until his passport was returned, he kicked me in the belly yelling I had not had the right to make him stay home in another summer vacation. I was pleading please just try to work for everyone's good why should it matter when he had his vacation when or if he took vacation in the summer or mid winter. that just earned a hard slap with him saying he had earned his righto decide, we had not.
That was the way of it every attempt to get him to do what we felt was right. Right up till the time he came home from three years under medical care, decided I was going to do exactly as he wanted, that he came before anyone else and forced me to have sex with him as with every other time we went into the argument about rights.
That day was very bad with me being forced on the living room floor as I begged to just try and talk things through. hen he threw his fathers friend off the deck face first. then threatened his father with the same with his rear kicked first.
I totally agree...
I suffer with depression as well, and have suffered what I would consider emotional breakdowns. I would NEVER treat my spouse the way he has treated me. Part of the reason I am depressed is because of the ongoing verbal assaults I have had to deal with.
I don't really care what makes a person abuse another. It is THEIR responsibility to make sure that they get treatment.
No.
I'm also mentally ill, deeply so. I am still responsible for my own behavior. In the moment it can be difficult, but it is my responsibility to develop techniques to help myself behave better, and NOBODY is obligated to put up with my outbursts. Nobody.
If you have one of the mental illnesses classified as a personality disorder, it can be VERY hard to control yourself. It is still *YOUR* duty to seek the help that you need so you can map out strategies for dealing with the bad moments when they come.
If things are as bad as you describe, you may have more than depression. You really need to get additional help if you literally can't control your words or actions. I'm destitute, I know how hard it is, but it can make a huge difference in your life.
Seriously
Where's the empathy in someone who screams insults at people. You expect to be treated with respect, yet accept no responsibility for showing others the same respect.
Difficult
That sounds like an amazingly difficult situation to have had to face.
Military? Unemotional?
I had a complete opposite experience while enlisted in the Military. Yelling, and serious dysfunction were not uncommon.
Training was full of yelling. I'm kind of confused by what military you went into.
Rage & Abuse
I would like to see the author read and respond to "Why does he do that?" by Lundy Bancroft. In my opinion abuse should not be tolerated in any of it's forms. Suggesting that someone should tolerate it. I don't believe that there is any more than a very slim (and very dangerous) chance that this quote is correct. "However, if you can accurately identify where their rage was coming from and convey this in a compassionate, non-threatening way, there’s a decent chance they’ll return the favor and hear you out the way you—so generously—have for them." Don't endanger yourself by taking that chance!
Typo
My sentence "Suggesting that someone should tolerate it." should have read - Suggesting that someone should tolerate it seems irresposible to me.
Rage Attacks
You're correct. No innocent victim should ever dare stand by and try to analyze why the crazed person is behaving that way. Get OUT!! I worked at trying to save my marriage for many years. My reward?? I now have incurable tinnitus and serious emotional damage. The 'beast' is just fine, by the way.
Wise words
A true and helpful analysis of male rage. It works for me.
Btw - typo: 'their' should read 'they're' in at least two places.
Carefully reviewed my post
Carefully reviewed my post but couldn't locate the typos you referred to. Could you kindly tell me where you saw them?
Female
Sounds like female rage too except without the fingernails.
The idea that you should
The idea that you should tolerate bad behavior lest it turn into worse is very bad advice. It encourages people to become victims (I'd better let them be mean to me because they might hurt me) and lets abusers get away with relationship crimes. Unless you really have reason to believe that this is your best strategy for survival, don't put this advice in you playbook. It does no one any good.
I'll also add that the abuse gets worse, not better.
I'll also add that the abuse gets worse, not better, if one continues to tolerate to ostensibly prevent it from worsening. That's partly why there are so many victims of bullying and abuse--because they've gotten such lousy advice, which has encouraged them to be victims. It's like saying that the victims deserve what they get, which is disgusting.
Victimization can have opposite results, as well; People who've been victimized/abused/bullied in some way or other, be it physically, emotionally or psychologically, often come up to victimize other people.
I dunno...
When someone is coming at me like that I would rather take a zero tolerance policy and extricate myself from the situation as quickly as possible for my own mental well-being and sanity. Why should I sacrifice my health for theirs? I say make it known that you will not talk to them until they go calm down.
I have been in this situation, and yes I have found it helpful to stay calm and mentally dissociate myself while acting like i'm calmly listening. I agree, you can't take anything they say personally. You can only take so much though that it's really not fair, and it's best to get out asap if they are not calming down even if you try to listen. If they keep following you just yes them to death until they go away and cool off. I would really rather not have to deal with these people at all.
Rage directed in my direction
I would like to share that I will not tolerate any rage that I have absolutely no responsibility in creating.
I would also like to share that in a long term commited relationship, over time, I have been responsible for the birth of ongoing rage attacks. I literally pushed the person as far as they could go, and then pushed further by walking away when hostile verbal outbursts presented. I mistakenly believed by doing so would be more beneficial in the long range of things because I was aware that these outbursts very much ignited my defensive go to of mirroring the oppositions behavior mechanism. Experience has shown me that reacting to rage with rage is the absolute, most destructive , and isolating mis step any one could take if they value their relationship to the other person involved. Nothing good will ever come from Raging against rage.
With that said, I have a difficult time not taking the words extremely personal because I never intended on ever making this person so entirely upset and hurt by my actions to the point of reaching complete, and raw, seething anger.
I realize anger is a secondary emotion, and that the truth behind the rage is feeling so hurt and taken advantage of by some one who they perceived would never cause them this inner turmoil or absolute loss of control of their daily emotional state. I have finally come to realize my part in creating these feelings within the person and I am trying to be constantly aware of what actions to avoid to build and maintain the balance in this person that i have disturbed for over a decade, oblivious to how it was negatively effecting him since he has always given me the benefit of the doubt before I disappointed time and time again, never keeping my word or even considering my words would ever be accountable if I said i would do something, and then changed my mind about it or about when I planned on completing that something. To me, im allowed the freedom to prioritize things in perspective to how I view their importance, as well as to completely change my mind for reasons which I decide warrant a change of mind/plans.
This apparently is not reguarded as my personal freedom to make decisions in the eyes of the person who was expecting me to do something in a specific manner. I do not see anything as a contract unless I sign a contract. Other people don't see this in the way that I see it at all.
I hope that with effort,patience , and good intentions, we can permanently diffuse this cycle of discontent with a sense of mutual success and acceptance of our responsibility to the role in which we play to eachother.
I believe we can only have such strong feelings and reactions to a person who we truly love and care about, otherwise, it wouldnt make anyone so upset when things are not going well between us.
I will update in a few months to compare where we stand now vs where we will be standing..
Any update on how this is going?
I am in a similar situation, except your story mirrors my passive aggressive spouse, and I am the one with the Rage.
How are things going?
Husbands rageJanuary 28th 2013
My husbands rage cost me most of my friends. In 2013 I had planed an evening when he gets sent home from a stress center after two weeks before just because a friend thought playing a joke then calling him a pathetic looser. My husband had his cane swept out from under his support. He tried to kill the other man for putting him on the floor then laughing at him.
Two weeks later I was invited to go with his father, mother, and as the accompaniment to his fathers best friend to a public service awards dinner when the stress center my husband was taken too; to cool off called wanting me or somebody to come get him and bring him home. I don't drive because I am bi polar with the side effects that come with this malady. I don't have any side vision, just a very small area directly ahead of my gaze, so they called his father for the pickup who felt that it was the greatest imposition on a day we all knew his being home would be bad feelings for him and the end of evening, would bring at the least a terrible argument about my being what my husband felt I was the community tramp and traitor to him, and the person that helped keep him as an indentured servant with an unfulfilled marriage contract.
I had tried with his father and others like the friend was going to the awards dinner with that evening to get my husband to see he did not have to be confrontational in his rights. he just needed to use the options offered instead of cause discontent in other lives because he took what he wanted on the job, I felt that the seniority clauses in the UAW contract he worked under were the most devicieve thing a company could do in a community as did his father. My husband claimed that from 1985 to 2009 we never let him have time off work as was his right but used instruments like a friend in the court to put a court order on him requiring him to take the courts decision on Vacation and holiday time. He was so obstinate he would not take those times that we recommended from the end of the holiday shutdown to February 14th, just let everyone that was under him in seniority have the times they wanted and he take the times we suggested and be happy with it , it would have been so much simpler than have people angry him and others with his seniority or higher taking those holidays and vacation slots making those younger work in those times.
His father and his group of friends, included a judge, until 2000 had kept my husbanfd under a court order he felt was unfair to take the courts decision on time off, He had to petition the court 6 months before to see if it would let him have his times, He was not the only one in that position, His father called my husbands friends that gang of senioritied bullies. My husband was considered the leader of this group. After the milliniall this group started causing great harm to the social order in the community, after we had my husband taken into Custody on the 23 of December 1999 and he was forced to work out of a jail cell taken to work by deputies and then returned to his cell after the shift was done until January the second 2000. We had to have him done that way to keep him from ruining hundreds of other plans over the New Centuries beginning when the company could not get a volunteer to work that holiday shutdown and produce a parts bank fot the assembly start up so they started goin from the lowest seniority and told them they had to work. there were about twenty under the cover court order that the county judge had decided they were picking a different time and let the younger generations have the new century change off. We came back from Bavaria with an offer from the company and his union for the 32 that was not allowed to use their seniority to have that holiday off, The offer for my husband was From His birthday to the 24th of January he could take the time off as the replacement for the time he should have had off by the seniority he had. start the New millinium in a peaceful way with an understanding that the court order was coming off, They could start having the time frames they wanted. We instead came back to insults. The Judge was being hurt in revenge for his decisions about this group he was deprived of fifteen years of his life. They Spent over a year gathering bits of information on that judge then presented it to the states judicial review board. We arrived back to the county courts chaos after the judge was arrested and taken off the bench by state Conservation officers. They carried the highest power of arrest in the state, even over the state police.
The county was forced by a lawsuit filed by the ACLU to adopt a hands off where this group was concerned with a 150 million dollar discrimination law suite hanging over the counties neck. In 2001 a pair of incidents happened. The First was when we should have listened to my husbands doctor after a brain surgery and let my husband disrupt every ones life becoming ill. Three months later he decided that he would never be forced by his father and others laying their hands on him to go back to work. HE Had worked his old way of combat training back into his way of life. By November he and his friends were not going to back off any thing the contract said was their due. He took a position from four men his father and others felt should have gone to four more connected men i the county. They were put in criticfal care because he was not even going to try and negotiate any thing. He was willing to put any one that interfer5ed with his wants in the hospital or in the grave. He was considered to dangerous to deal with without firearms or subtrafuge, The use of firearms just started getting people hurt when he ambushed them after the force was used to make him work holidays.
In 2009 we tried to Cancel his vacation on the orient express and show him there was just as good a vacation when nobody else wanted one in Mid Winter. He was so angry he was not going into work since this time had been authorized to him and not the young man that was taking the trip with his 4 month pregnant bride. I left on that trip with my shoulder imobalized in a sling. and he tried to Murder his father for taking another vacation time he had a right to away and get his passport returned so he could go to a different airport with a direct flight and make our trip on the express totally hateful because we canceled his.
WE knew he had not had the vacation or time off of his choice since 1981 by 2009. but his revenge for not getting his way was even more than a family and community should stand for: for not getting his way by a UAW contract, He had me and his father arraigned two days after our return from Istambul on June the 3 2009.
We plead guilty to a charge i thought was bogus at first. I thought, a wife had the right to cancel any trip her husband was taking as a legal representative of her husband, I found out different as did his father when we got a record as criminals for acting as false agency, in the cancelation of my husbands trip. I received permission fro the judge to ask him to remove his charges and I told him we would forget about the surprise we had arranged for on the second of January. I Said he could take whatever holidays and vacation he wanted no matter whos hopes he killed in the taking of what he wanted I would even go back to my mothers in Virginia and let her harange me for being a sinner to my husband. He could file a spousle abandonment divorce after a year> He did not have to have his father and me jailed. The Judge said if it was up to her She would put both of us away in the state prison system for seven years but we were making restitution, and His father had to double the 6354 we were giving back to him as punitive damages, We Were Finger Printed and taken to the cells we lived in the next two months.
When His mother and sister came to visit i asked whos vacation did he destroy by taking his. I was told that My husband had worked every day those 2 months, The Contract had changed the year before saying if you did not take the vacation slots assigned. It was the foreman's discretion when you could take one.
The foreman was not going to allow the January time because of design changes after the first of the year. The young man we had canceled my husband for was Terminated and escorted of the property, His Bride gave birth to their daughter in November. Her mother and father paid for her to get an RNs degree and the young man was going from one menial job to the next. She left him five moths after she received her degree and went under an air force contract to Guam. When She left she filed for a divorce told the young man he could see his daughter any time , he just needed to catch a flight he could not afford to the other side of the world.
BY October my husband had a MRSA abscess in his spine. For three years he was in Rehab having strokes, Heart surgery for a leision caused by MRSA. He relearned to use his hands and arms, and even walks after a fashion with a cane, he doesn't have feeing from about eight inches above his knees or nerve impulse to below his knees. He described his father and me to the clergy and Mental health doctors that came to see him. His family and I were talked to extensively about how my husband had been treated for decades the court orders to force him to work me using promises of sex if he just cooperated, One Priest was so mad at his fathers and my attitude. He said that there were places in hell for us. My husband said we stole 3 decades of his life. He said He earned what I took from him for my own uses, that he never had any thing from the things he did and earned with his sweat, time and sometimes blood.
For decades we tried to get him to use what he earned responsibly for the needs of all, We felt he did not have the life he wanted because he was so defiant to the social issues involved with him having the holidays and time off he felt he earned I was willing in 1987 to Use the Vacation we felt he should take in January 1988 after we came back from Rome with suggestions for things we could look into for a vacation instead of killing the hopes of younger people for the summer vacations they wanted for things like weddings and honeymoons, in traditional spring and summer times, Things like take their children to Places like Disney and SeaWorld and other childrens places in the summer. or just summer camping trips, and history locations while they had a summer break. All we were asking was until he had children in our marriage he look at the needs of others and not think because he had so much seniority he should automatically get his way.
In 2000 things started getting nasty and insulting to me, his parents, and the community after we just had him taken into custody and forced to work out of a jail cell from December 23 1999 to the second of January 2000.; There were just so many plans for Engagment parties and weddings and the want to See the new Millinia come in. My Husband was Changing tools in his machines and taken back to the cell at 1230 am on the first of January 2000 to start his next shift 7 hours later. The Company was mad that they were paying out double the triple time he received any way. So to recoup the loss they took the holiday time of the people that did not show up for work and then furloughed them for 30 days. A loss that hurt several that had far less seniority the union steward said they should have showed up for work and let my husband go where he wanted but they did not so they got their time off just not paid. They took it all the way to the International council and found they were going to hurt for not earning the right for time off, My Husband used it to Purchase a new laptop for work. he's gone though five since then I was still crying about his gift to me a box of dog do. and refused to get me a Christmas gift until he had the right to be home for Christmas. He said everyone wants something and He did not have to be nice to me about any thing , because he had supplied my life for 15 years without any compromise from my end. IT was always on him. This morning he compared me and his fathers treatment of him to the way the Congress is going we held him from his wants. He had no choice but to fillbuster us until he got something he wanted and he maintained veto power. He says that in the senate the Republican majority is crying about the democrats using the same tactics the hey did under OBama. and now they are crying about it. He says I feel i have been unfairly treated for my country club friends, But He earned his way what did i do to earn mine. I felt i earned it by hearing him Yelling about no sex, No Vacations, and the fact i did not earn a living myself.
This is madness
This is bull shit. Why should anyone be someones whipping boy because they are a bully with unresolved issues, baggage and personal problems. Run for your life!!!
Right on Kaz! Either run or
Right on Kaz! Either run or get help and support from a domestic violence advocacy group
Madness indeed
I KNOW! Don't you dare to help your wife who was raped when she was 6 years old! Run away from her baggage! Don't take her to psychiatrist! What's the point? Save yourself! Only think about yourself!
My experience with this type of situation
I have been in this situation with my spouse more times than I can count (or should have to) over the last 32 years. I have permanently lost almost 30% of my hearing in one ear, have some "ricochet" damage to the hearing in my other ear, and tinnitus- from one single slap during an attempt to sit and listen to one of his rages. I now wear a hearing aid at age 58- all because of his temper tantrum.
I think that many (if not all) of adults who act this way DO have some type of personality disorder or mental illness. My husband is a narcissist. Of course we have all lost our temper at one time or another- that is NOT the same as screaming tantrums full of insults, threats, and profanity that go on and on and on.
I foolishly used to think that if I could "tough out" one of his tirades, that he would eventually run out of steam and calm down. One time, after almost one full hour of his yelling and repeated attacks on me, I broke down and sobbed for him to just STOP. People like him don't run down- they do fuel their own fire, and if anything, they pick up steam as they go. It's as if their anger somehow justifies their raging behavior (to them), so it escalates the longer they speak.
I think there is a significant difference between losing your cool and this kind of behavior. My husband only wants me to listen so he can project his anger onto me, and get me to believe whatever he says about me so that he never has to take responsibility for his bad behavior. I'm sure in his mind, I deserve it. There is no reciprocity, and I would never treat him or anyone the way he treats me.
Clair my husband did not
Clair my husband did not start hurting me directly until 2003 when I came back from Ireland with the usual vacation group, we all had prayed that somehow my husband would understand that he could not be permited his own choicesin vacation becaus4e to many were counting on him to work the summer months. I admit that this was a form of abuse against my husband when i handed his father his passport to put out of my husbands reach zand get him to work through the Ireland trip. When he picked us up after that trip he just went right past the turnoff to his fathers and parked in front of the bank with the safe deposit that contained his passport was, I was telling him he would get it back christmas day in sicx monyths if he was nice about the reason we felt he should not have his way until the new year. He would get a vacation just not the way he wanted, or at the time he wanted, he would have still had a vacation just on my and his fathers terms.
He waklked around his suburban and told his father to get out, he was getting his passport back for him and when he did not his oldest son draged him out of the seat and draged him into the bank saying you are returning what is mine right now. he included a couple of kicks to his fathers side. I ran up pleading as i had done every year since 1987 to just please try his time off our way it would be so much better for the area. just show a little more pateince for a time he could take off. He said when hell froze over because in 22 yearsv I had not kept my word including our marriage vows as he kicked me in the belly. he took his father into the bank forcing him to return his passport then he put everyone out of his suburban and our luggage and told us to find our own way home.
for 23 years I had been trying to find a way to get him to tsake time after the new year By the orient express his father and I were lying to cancel the double berth he had made onthe orient express when we told him there was a newly wed with a four month pregnant bride he worked right beside and we were letting them have the double berth. I was taking the single promising when we returned we would figure something out for him and the three months he would have coming in time off. He didvnot have to be upset about the express there were other things he could try. he wrenched my shoulder out of its socket taking his refund and the money i was taking as well as tearing my boarding pass up a he yelled he was tied of supporting me for nothing in return then his father screaming just be a damn man it was just a vacation he could replace it that winter for once. His father had to be given O2 because tsa had to yank his hands off his fathers throat. Everytime we interfered with him since over holidays and his vacation we have been hurt time that could have been easaly replaced when we chose just got people hurt.
Article
I fully agree with the other posters. I have also been a victim of my husband's rage attacks for the past eight years. I have tried two ways of dealing with it. The first way is to sit there and remain totally silent, while he goes on a 45 minute tirade, over something so meaningless as finding a rotten vegetable in the refrigerator. He will smash things and call me every name in the book. He expects certain responses from me. If I do not provide him with the adequate responses that he is expecting, it can quickly result in physical abuse or even death for me.
For the past year, I have tried a different approach. I run out of the house and drive away. This ensures that I can actually stay alive and live to see my daughter graduate from college. I have now left my husband. Listen, people, we only have one life to live! Why waste it on someone who has mental problems that can actually result in your death? Come on!!!!!
The author of this article wants us all to sit there with a happy face and tolerate the abuse. Have never ending compassion for someone that can actually kill us. This is such dangerous advice, that I can not imagine that anybody who has studied in the field of psychology, would ever suggest such a thing.
Any wife who has ever been a victim of her husband's rage attacks, knows the feeling of absolute panic that you feel, when you have no place else to go and he has power over all the money. You are financially dependent on him and he uses this as an excuse to abuse you relentlessly because you have no place else to go? No, ladies! Go to a domestic violence shelter immediately!!!!!! I did!!!! They will help you get back on your feet and on to a new life.
Do not ever try and stay with a man who rages at you. They are dangerously ill, and if things get too bad, you could actually die.
With the exception of the
With the exception of the physical abuse and threats of death (though my wife has threatened to kill herself numerous times), your situation sounds very similar to mine. Even down to the part where I'm supposed to say the exact right thing at the exact right time. Doesn't work very well, does it?
I am very sorry you were going through such a horrible situation, but I'm relieved to read that you left and are free of it now.
I had desperately hoped after my wife and I married, that this would stop or at least improve. How silly that seems now.
Perennial Rage
My wife has been unabashed at loud , nasty rages .. often with physical assult as well. i took it for many years while my kids were small so they wouldn't have to. Now they are teenageres though, and they know their mom has a serious issue. At some point it is hurting the kids when they see their dad allowing their mom to be so foul and disrespectful. Both have voewd never to return atfer school. I'm ashamed when I don't fight back. When I tried for counsling early in our relationship .. she would go only once. So the counslers spent their time counseling the one without the problem. What can I do? If I call the police the kids will vouch for me and I'll be sending their mom to jail.
Counseling, Call the police
My ex, after 30 years of bf/gf and then marriage. After slamming me backwards on our car, slamming my head and spine, which hurt for over a year, I told him, that's it, go for counseling or we are done! He finally did, but after maybe second appt. He comes home and says, with a grin and thinking I would approve, that the doctor asked if he ever hit me...he lied and said, no, never. I was devastated and said, That's Why You're Going! And you're lying about it! We're paying $100 a visit, why!?
He thought it was funny. I asked if he thought divorce was funny - no response.
You see, I never told anyone about the abuse. No one, until after this. I called his parents, and their response, the mom's response. Don't call the police, over and over. That was my help. If my father knew, I can only imagine.
I didn't have the courage to tell anyone. About 5 more yrs of this, I said no more. Can't do it. My child could pick up on his behavior, just like ex picked up his Dad's behavior. The ex was extremely spoiled by his family. Everything had to be his way or nothing. Presents - every time he wanted something, it was so embarrasing, he would start crying. A grown as man crying over a car, a toy, golf clubs and so on. But get this, I never got what I would have liked. A new car would mean it's his. I have yet to ever fully own a new car after 30 years.
Later, he began blaming our child getting in between. He was nuts. Sociopath? I heard from his friends of some of the stuff he made them do, and it was insane. I think I should write a book.
What not to tolerate.
Rage at its worst
In @009 My father and law with my help canceled my husbands Trip on the Orient express to let a younger man with 32 years less seniority go on his honeymoon with his 4 month pregnant bride, We felt my husband could take his five weeks of vacation with his 25 days of personal time after January the Second In 210 more days. We even in exchange set up a five week rental on St Croix.
My husband Was being told the reason his boarding pass was not honored was waiting with us in a TSA conference room we had asked to use to tell him why he was not going on the express. why he was not getting another European vacation he wanted, and that we were leaving the normal vacation time we had always wanted him to take instead of the spring summer and fall vacations he would never consider and that we had a surprise for one hat we had already arranged, but he was going back to his job and working in place of the younger man.
He decided he was not going back, but was catching the direct flight to Europe and renting a car and driving the entire route and meet us at each stop all the way to the last stop in Istambule just to make our vacation hell. He even threatened to treat me as a sultans traitor wife and throw me into the Bospherous with a stone tied around my neck.
All because he had not had a vacation or day off except for six in 2001 when he had surgery to take a tumor off his brain stem, He did not consider those actual days off. He spent more time tossing up than actually resting those six days. After that surgery he was forced back on his job by having his arms twisted behind his back and taken to his machine set, The Stitchs over his right eye were broken he was bleeding down the side of his face and the Plug in his skull had slipped by a millimeter. His father came back with his mother later that day and told both of us if we knew what was good for us we were to shut up about him needing the full 60 days He said if he could stand he could work and we were not to molly coddle him. It cost the company 150 thousand in fines, his forerman was transferred to detrioit crying she just though she was stopping trouble before it happened the men that had bought him to work found themselves sitting at home terminated or without pay for 30 days. the Union came under the eye of the national union and things were changing about the areas ability to deal with family privlige That thought was being pushed away through the national union.
We did not know in 2009 when we had my husband go back to work that The younger man under that contract also had to go around over 20 higher seniority and they had the first option for that time slot, He was terminated the day he returned, His father and I were jailed because we did not have my husbands power of atorny to cancel his Vacation plans on the orient Exprss and By Member action the Travel agent in the union hall was forced out of her position and to the assembly fkloor I know my husband does not go with any type of handguns now but he does go armed with things that look innocent that can kill if thrown, I could just picture that weapon coming out and a small star hitting her husband in the throat then my husband tossing him into the river. I had to tell her I was not going Both her and her husband told me to put my husband on and i heard them Cuss him up one side and down the other telling him He was lpw born what right did he have to tell people of their social statues how he was going to allow me to do any thing. My husband asked what their social status was kings and queen, the prince of some principality, or was it they were dukes and ducheses, He said he never swore fealty to a class of people in this nation. he swore to the constitution, the people of the USA. and to obey orders of those appointed over him. they had never been in the military so the only had the protect the people of the usa. they missed by a long shot in all other respectsHe said,THEY HAD NO SOCIAL STATUS HE REDCIOGNIZED SAS SPECIAL PRIVILIGE SO IF i WAS SPENDING HIS MONEY ON A DOUBLE STATE ROOM AND A HOTELL ROOM HE WAS BEING INCLUDED AND THE FIRST SIGN HE WAS UNDER ATACK FROM ANY ONE HEWOULD KILL THEM.
Her husband broke down Crying remembering how bad my husband hurt him in 2001 when him and three other men assaulted my husband. HE was hurt so bad he spent nine months in the hospital and rehab. He was Not in any sghape to even see my husband after that day, Then because of why my husband would not consider letting him have the New postion He was Jailed for 9 Months for cocain use three years latter. He managed to get a personal leave for a year. But When he went back he had lost half his seniority. Ended up with another 22 years from 2005 to put in to retire He will be 71 after already putting in 16 years. He also has to take A drug test monthly and if he fails he's terminated The job on midnight shift pays 36.50 an hour and any time a man loses that kind of pay, benefits, and time it hurts.
My husband pointed this out to both of them and told them to tell him his social status was that of a junk yard dog. He would do his best6 to live up to it.
My husbands defiance started that way in 1972. He had already been in the Army Basic training and the first part of his MOS training in the army when he came back to finish his diploma on a split enlistment> Even then he cared less who was somebodies mother and father if they used their family coone4ctions to get over on him he was going to ruin somebodies day. There were four School board members sons who were getting the positions that four seniors had workj hard to attain and when the coach told them the school board had the say. Those second years came by and rubbed it in saying again pedigree shows who got what. One of my husbands friends also ex military, said my husband turned to them and said well that's how it is lets show them how junk yard dogs play. They made those school board sons quit the team before end of practice getting very rough with them.
I believe his father and the fathers of the younger men made my husbands attitude really bad that same evening when they knocked him out with a golf driver and tied him to a tree before he woke up with zip ties. They used electric cord to whip him until he passed out> I saw The scans of the Polarod the doctors took before stitching him up after the cleaned the area. His Ribs and spine showed through the cuts on him the zip ties had cut down to nearly the bone after they left him hanging there over night> 153 sutures and even more staples were used to seal the cuts on his back. Fifty suturs and arterial clamps were put in each wrist and He only had less than a unit of blood left in his system when he was airlifted to a military hospital. My Husbands next stay in his fathers home was In May 1985 I was there until he came home from his navy hitch in 1985> It seemed all that had to happen was his arrival home and trouble started> within two years he was told by a judge he had to get permission from the court for using his 11 years seniority to do as he pleased, only ex military fell under this decision. In 1999 my husband refused all efforts to get5 himto listemn to these decisions about what times he could have and We4 could have started a real life together with a little cooperation and his total despiosing of our getting into his seniority. We had him Taken into Custody on the 23 to keep him from defying the courts ruling of July 13 1987.. Four deputy's arrived knowing that my husband was well versed in combat arts and He did deck two of them before they tassed him to the ground after they would not read the charges for his arrest6, or Mirandize him He was just to stay in custody from the 23 of December 1999, To January 2nd 2000, Escorted from a cell to his job and back. The took him home to his truck on the morning of January the Second and he called his Ex military friends and they got all the information on the courts judge they had gathered together and Sent it to the state judicial review board starting an Investigation My husband went to a store that sold mostly junk and found an old wagon wheel and set into in cement in his fathers front yard before the shift of January the 3rd.
He Put rawhide wrist ties from a local leather shop at the tem and 2 position on the wheel and Put a bull whip His grandfather sent him from Wyoming under the suburbans seat. We Got back from Bavaria on his birthday of January the 5th with what we felt w3as va fair solution to the holiday he had been forced to work through, We had Called his union President to arrange the Time From His birthday to the 24th of Janurary. Have his birthday at a nice place on The fifth, Christmas the next day and Then the New Year In A B and B on the straights of Makiinack In Michigan> We arrived the morning of his birthday not expecting any thing but my very angry husband and to Be verbaly insulted about the way we stomped on his rights> We Had a 1300 dollar gift of a scene and music programed clock of everything we did and saw in Bavaria while He was at work His father was sporting a cut on his head where his mother had hit him with a heavy ashtray over the way my husband was treated. My Husband Did not say a thing Not even hello or a sarcastic did I have a nice time on his dime was I ever going to be some thing other than useless. That's what i expected and we had hoped his union had told him he was taking time off he was causing to much trouble over it. He was beating everyone up over not having a day off in 19 years even though there were times offered he would not take because it was what we wanted.
We Loaded our luggage not even asking my husband to help, Things were like a funeral chapple. And I did notice a box nicely wrapped with a big note saying to my wife. I asked was that my Christmas gift He said Go ahead open it in a very tight way, It Was filled with the leavings of dogs he had scraped out of yards and the note said It indicated my worth as a supportive wife Less than what was in the box. It was the worst rebuke of my not offering a sex life and trying to get him to work with others to find solutions to all needs including his, He said there was a solution, his 22 years seniority, and the contract of which he had never been able to have a thing from. We Got to his parents and His mother Said I deserved every word and We all had been guilty of the idea he had to do as we wanted, She said That she was not looking forward to any thing else we felt he had to be forced into. It would not end well when we did> Even she was shocked by what we found when we got to his parents HIs mother was crying saying this is what he thinks of all of us and he was right. Her Sister took Her away after seeing the Manuare that covered the outside of his fathers house, And the 3 inch Slab of urine ice on the porch I felt our return home was a childish thing to do because we did not let him have his way about a sex life and time off work. We had no idea what the next nine years would bring in pain. After a brain Surgery in 2001 and the nasty fight he had in his room six days latter with his father and several coworkers about going into work that day when he was supposed to have 54 days more to recover. It was right in the middle of the heavy vacation time on August 6th 2001> people tried to keep things quiet that he was put back on his job six days after that surgery but because i did not call the authorities to report the abduction That was another demerit on me when all i wanted was to find a peaceful solution for everyone and that contract kept things in the way.
Three months later I knew he had plans nobody would like He had reinvigorated a army workout routine on a daily basis and started to Practice the Martial art he had attained his 3rd dan black belt in. I have seen the certifications ON Cold nights he wore a duster with an internal Sheath for a Katana I Saw some of his practice with them and I could not with the speed he practiced with how he did not cut himself. Then We found out he was going to piss everyone off by taking a new shift and position In the new plant that was wanted b=y many others> There was nobody with more seniority that did not have a shift and position they liked. My Husband and three of his ex military friends decided they were taking that departments start up jobs and they cared less whos toes they stepped on doing it. It was the sons of well connected families. They had nowhere near my husbands and his friends seniority When his father came over about getting a way to back my husband from taking a position for 2 more weeks , There families had told him that if my husband did not back off he could be hurt, My Husband welcomed them To try after I begged on my knees to get him to back off The day before the Bids were to be assigned by seniority> THE union refused to help, And my husband and his friends took the department as of the next Monday, There were casualties over it however when the fiour younger men decided they would teach my husband his place When his father slapped him after he said aparentlly those men felt the job was worth dying for when they took him on. He Hit his father back telling him that he had been told what might happen if he ever laid hands on him again or any one else that felt they were superior. We started hearing that men that used shotguns to make him worjk holidays he started ambushing them with a machinist hammer leaving them broken somehow> I always said Things were gett6ing very bad but he could have the life he wanted by just trying to work with everyone.. Take other options other than leaving people bleeding and hurt because he wanted his way.
2009 We had planed for an Orient express trip, My husband had 34 years seniority and had not had a day off except the six in 2001 since the day before our wedding> The young man he had trained to take his place on his five weeks vacation with only two years seniority had made his 19 year old girlfriend Pregnant> His father came to us and begged for my husband to work just one more year and let his boy have the Two week slot for his honeymoon with his 4 month pregnant bride on the Orient express. MY husband said It was not his kid and he had not had a day off sibnnce before his kid was still a gleam in his fathers eyes The reason why we did not have children was because i was a Bit** supporting everyone elses position and once again we had to think of a way toget my husband to work, This time we went to the union Travel agent the reservations were made with and had her Cancel my husband out of his reservations and To be fair his father kicked in the 634 cancelation fee I saw a Poster for ST Criox and asked how much for that trip for two She said It was Being offered in January for The Corporate Vacation rental that was open through march as a vacation Rental I had put 24 years of My husbands vacation pay and Holiday pays in a savings account for his use for a vacation when he finally took one I Got The 6354 Refund And Canceled his Trip and reserved the Rental which included a Willys Jeep And A Boat for our use when we went. We decided to tell my husband in a TSA Conference room the day we were flying out for Paris that we knew it had been decadees since he had time off in a vacation, but it was for a needed time for somebody else and On Christmas day We were going to come to his work gate Bearing a surprise for the second of January and The refund check he could use to get what he needed for where we were going then> HE asked what about his vacation from that year Why did he have to give that up this time, He was yelling hand the check over He was going to the bank and cashing it and when we landed in Paris he would be standing there with Police and if we were not jailed he would rent a car and Meet us at every stop and make the time in Europe a misery and at the end he would drown me with an anchor tied to me like the sultans did their traitor wives I said no time off was not worth doing as he planed to ruin every ones vacation was it He said, You try and work three decades without a break. He then grabbed my Bag as I tried holding on to it and I went flying across the room My shoulder was dislocated as he ripped my boarding pass in half Grabed his Check, My Travelers checks and Debit card took my cash. And Yelled When he picked up his computer case where was his Passport His father was crying saying it was in his pocket Why couldn't he just be a man and go work He was going to get his stinking time Off in January Why did he have to be such a as* about a bit of time off He said TSA would mail his passport back to him. The next thing everyone saw was my husband land on his father like a ton of bricks with both hands around his throat Yelling, he was getting out of his life and our marriage as of then, He was tired of him pushing him around and my denial of what was his for his supporting me since 1982 and that was his fathers fault. His father was out by that point The Union Minister and His steward as well as my husbands brother and brother in law along with three TSA were trying ti seperate my husbands fingers of his fathers throat> His mother was standing there telling his sister that he was giving his father exactly as he deserved They Got him off his father And bought in the Airport medic to set my shoulder and put the arm in a sling. Put his father on O2. His steward was telling my husband it was not worth his retirement to murder his father We got back Nobody was happy with the trip after the way things were when we left> Things were even worse going Back with no husband to pick us up . We got home 12 hours after landing by airport shuttle. We walked through the door of his fathers and a nman in a grey suit was drinking coffee with my husbands mother And she said we were about to get a nice surprise provided By My husband He was a Detective from the Sheriffs department with a warrant for our Arrest for acting as false agency in the cancelation of my husbands trip without power of attorney When we talked to the Lawyer He said we may as well plead guilty and Ask for Immediate sentencing and Be prepared to sign the check over in the court.. HE said The max we could get was seven years with the state for what we did, I agreed and hoped that the judge would understand we were trying to Just do something nice for someone else Things were not meant to deny my husband what he had earned. Things just did not make sense any longer I was granted the oppertunity to talk to my husband before she sentanced us I said OK he had made hi point he could ruin any ones plans he wanted Just Don't press us into prison over this stupidity about his rights, We would not try and stop any thing else he wanted to do. He addressed the judge and asked if she had his time keeping and Military records in front of her, he said she also had a copy of the latest contract. He said Tell us when the next chance for a vacatio9n he would get was It was the next April The vacat5ion I though i had made was not going to happen and the next April was the start of The next cycle and my husband taking five weeks plus 25 days personal time was going to create a bad problem for lesser seniority from the End of April he would have a vacation locked clear to after July 4th, Wedding plans in his department would be on hold, Kids would Find themselves staying home the summer with their working father and there was nothing any one could do if he started his vacatton Then. If he was still working the He was Planning on really throwing a monkey wrench in the gears Starting his vacation the day after memorial day and not working any more holidays He would not have gone back until after labor day Taking the whole summer in his department. He however was not well by the time we got out of jail that August. It had turned into the worst year I could remember with him He had changed the locks and the camping gear was not in the shed, He had been holding it since 1987, I and his father went to the Union hall after discovering I could not get In and Finally the Union president and minister agree to get us into the plant to se my husband on a break He then came in and threw the house key at me and scribled a note to the bank to allow a minimal allowance. H I asked what he was doing And He said I really did not care but he hoped to not talk to me again Then he turned stark with and Just about doubled over and walked back out to his Job. His steward said HE had been in and out of the local ER the last two months with these abdomen attacks my husbands reaction was not to stay down and let me get my friend out of the house to let things calm down so a conversation could occure about why things the last 31 years had happened as they had, I was going to take my luggage and Go Back to Virginia but I just wanted to tell him how much his constant defiance had hurt me over the years that i really did not want to have things be the way they were with the resentments that had built My Husband started beating him yelling whos the pathtic looser I was laying beside the phone with my nose bleeding and lip busted from being swated there by my husband whos rage was not being cooled. The Police arrived within a few minutes and Stopped my husband from doing as he threatened. My Friend was in ICU for two weeks then In a care ward for another two. My usband was in a stress center for two and He was not the one in trouble It was me and his fanmily and many other friends when his doctor Said he was sending his findings that we had used Coersion, Blackmail. intimidation and Illegal means to abuse my husband and deny him his civil rights, His Father was angry as we walked out to the day room and I was crying as usual when It came to dealing with my husband. His father went straight at his son yelling Boo HOO you were not getting time off work , Boo hoo your wife withheld sex from him until he showed he was a responsible hu,man being Now he is arnmed, next month I am going on a Hawaian Vacation, My husband is to even though i have offered him this, That when i came back he could chose an y thing he wanted a even an instant return to the Islands, Just let the rest of us have a peaceful vacation without all the resentments, A friends husband thought he was coming with an 18 inch barrel on a 12 gauge He was Instantly flagged as armed when he got out of his car. Three 30 30 bullits hit at his feet before he even got close to our door and ordered to get back in his car and gone before my husband counted 20. I am not going to talk him out of the trip this time He does not care there are others uncomfortable with his presence.
We listen to the assault riffle debate going on and my husband just chuclkled about the president thing arm school employees with pistols, He said if he was planning something he would take out the armed people from longer range that their hidden pistols. He said the best range for an AR is about 400 yards a 9mm would be lucky to hit well at 50 yards. about the border wall He says that its a dumb idea, they will put it up and the other side will just go around or better yet, Grab a SP artillery piece and knock it down.
Tolerating abuse
I don't see this article as only about men raging against women. My dad had anger issues when I was young, I don't see this article as only about men raging against women. What about elder abuse? Also, women can get crazy mad at stronger boyfriends who would never strike them back because men shouldn't hit women. Those men might not be in danger but then again they might. But some men are physically weaker than some strong women, plus some are gentler and never experienced that kind of crazy abuse. And again, an older man is frail and not as strong as a younger woman. Not to mention women on older women or their peers.
My dad had anger issues when I was young, though he never got physical, though it was scary. He grew out of them; he had a lot of inner pain; he and my mom also saw counselors. We all learned, unfortunately, from him this ineffective, destructive behaviour. We've also unlearned it.
Now I'm the perpetrator. I'm stuck with a guy who drives Me crazy! He's older, and is sometimes afraid of me, though I've never hit him and never would.
This guy is awful, completely awful, and it's possible he's passive-aggressive but more likely he's one part incompetent/old/sick and two parts lazy. AND passive-aggressive.
MY problem is I can't seem to get out. I Know anger is stupid and wrong. I do not want to waste what little remains of My miserable life around a beast who pushes every button I have, is Literally toxic (the smells: semi-hoarder: won't get repairs made: bathtub drain the only one left that works; now incontinence: is treatable: won't do it.
I was going to leave but he got sick and had noone. Still should have left bc I reach a breaking point, have many problems of my own that are not being taken care of and I'm losing my own life for his and I get mad.)
I realize it helps nothing and it hurts me as well. I can't get work bc he takes all my time and energy: for real, you wouldn't believe. He's Very sabotaging. I too, though, am lazy and Self-sabotaging.
I have never, never tried to make him feel bad about his state. I build him up when I don't even feel it. I'm extremely patient. I just lose it sometimes before I can think, when he's done something especially awful.
This is taking too long; upshot is, I consider going to a shelter myself! I have nowhere to go, no car, little money (spend a lot on him! I buy all his food and other stuff.) People won't rent me a shared space cos I'm not working or cos I'm too old, if it's young people. I'm Totally alone and have lost all of My friends.
Upshot is , I know I should remove myself from a person who I can't stand and who brings out the worst in me. NOT that I expect him to change and not that he should! He has every right to be who he is, and if that clashes with my personality, with my desires, I am ridiculous to expect him to morph into another person. I'm cowardly not to seek fulfillment elsewhere, as well as foolish. I'm trying to leave! But meanwhile, things happen and I blow up.
I need to remove myself from this mutually misery-making situation. I'll leave today, I'm wasting time writing this. Anyhow, he has threatened to hit me a few times when I'm on a rant and won't shut up, but it's because he feels helpless. He could possibly hurt me: I'm smaller than him but he's older.
I hate being angry, I like harmony, peace and joy. But it's not always the male who is the bad guy. He was trying to help me, and is too kind to throw me out. I better get on it now! He's Crazy-wasteful, and it hurts me because I'm so poor and so on. I don't have a car, either. Ciao. though he never got physical, though it was scary; he grew out of them; he had a lot of inner pain; he and my mom also saw counselors. We all learned, unfortunately, from
him this ineffective, destructive behaviour. We've also un learned it.
Typographical error on my comment
Sorry about the typos consisting of some redundancy. Trouble with mobile site, cut/paste my response after writing on other format, made slight error.
Rage
I triggered my husband's rage by yelling at him. I was not feeling like he was respecting a new boundary I set. My husband has Bpd.
I feel like I may have sub conscientiously done this to get him to explode so we could get to honey moon period.
How do I fix this today (next morning)
I want him to understand that his rage did not change my boundary and that I should not have yelled.
rage
Can't help you there. I would never trigger someone's rage. If I did, then I would get what was coming to me and have only myself to blame. As for dealing with someone with BPD? I simply wouldn't! Life is too short to make yourself the victim of a mentally ill lunatic. No, as for me, I never once "triggered" the rage of anyone. Not in my whole life. I couldn't have been a nicer, more docile, agreeable and cheerful mate. That is why I finally had to get away. I don't deserve it.
This article tries to hedge its bets, but fails
I am currently going through this very situation. My wife has been having severe rage episodes, and I've tried all of the above and then some. She has even given me "scripts" that I am to use when she's in the middle of these fits, which are supposed to be coupled with being spoken at the exact right time, while remaining silent at exact right times. Unsurprisingly, even when I do this, I'm accused of not doing them immediately after, or of not doing it exactly right.
So big shocker here, trying to appease someone else's rage doesn't work.
And the reason is very simple: UNJUSTIFIED RAGE IS NOT THE RESPONSIBILITY OF ITS TARGETS.
This is ABUSE, and it is unacceptable to advise someone to force themselves to be the victim of someone's rage. Other people are not objects to be used and abused for someone's rage outlet.
If a person wishes to be heard, they need to communicate it in something resembling an appropriate way, and not violate the rights of others with their abusive behavior simply because they cannot control themselves.
So if you want to destroy your mental wellbeing, your sense of worth, and develop new anxieties and become an angry person yourself, follow the advice in this article.
I totally agree with you and
I totally agree with you and many others who responded critically to this post, though I recall at the end of my post indicating that such an empathic process will not--or cannot--work with anyone who is personality disordered--such as narcissistic pd or borderline pd. And, yes, of course, you're not responsible for someone else's abusing you and certainly don't need to put up with it, especially if the other person refuses counseling or cannot benefit from it.
raging is outrageous
This article was a very helpful reflection to me, as I have been trying to have a healthy relationship with my sister for most of life, and it's never going to happen. Being a peacemaker with a tendency to people please, I tolerated her raging in the moment, but the damage it has done to our relationship and my self esteem are not worth it. I became damage goods, and started to experience anxiety every time I spent time with her, waiting for her to snap and vomit her anger onto me. My M.O. was to try to "help her to understand" and to justify my genuine love for her, to counter whatever negative motive she was ascribing to me at the time. You are fight, it never worked, she would just escalate. Is she a narcissist? perhaps, how do I know? I should not try to diagnose her, but I have finally had enough. She will never seek counseling, as the problem is always, of course "100% you!" I have been through a lot of self examination and counseling, and now know that the problem is not mine, unless I choose to own it (which I no longer do) and continue to try to appease someone who totally unreasonable to deal with. None the less, it breaks my heart.
I totally agree with you and
Leon F Seltzer Ph.D. wrote:I totally agree with you and many others who responded critically to this post, though I recall at the end of my post indicating that such an empathic process will not--or cannot--work with anyone who is personality disordered--such as narcissistic pd or borderline pd. And, yes, of course, you're not responsible for someone else's abusing you and certainly don't need to put up with it, especially if the other person refuses counseling or cannot benefit from it.
Had you prefaced your article with this caveat, you could have saved an enormous amount of time in typing the rest. The comments here offer unanimity in criticizing the notion of tolerating abuse. I would not use formal diagnosis of a personality disorder (or lack of formal Dx) as some sort of rationale for taking on any responsibility for someone else's rage. NO! This article is a poorly written attempt at offering the public information.
obnoxious rage attacks
Well said, MR!!
Thank you for your extremely validating comment!
The fact that your wife gives you a "script" to recite, during her rages, just baffles me. I'm sorry, but that is SO outrageously narcissistic! I can relate to it though!
It's hard when you are a person who is amiable and likes to keep the peace. We know that the behavior is outrageous and wrong, yet, when we have to live with these people, sometimes it's just so much easier to tolerate the abuse, then to leave.
Leaving takes planning. It takes courage and it takes money. It also takes giving up your money and shared assets. It's also very hard, because our spouses who abuse us with their rage attacks are often times people that we still very much still love.
When they are not in one of their full blown rage attacks, these individuals can often times be very fun, loving and docile. But regular anger is different than a full blown rage attack.
The rage attacks that I have witnessed, seem to come out of nowhere. They sometimes were triggered by my simply having a different opinion. Or sometimes by an innocent comment, where I was just defending myself. The reaction was always so disproportionate to the situation and so completely over the top and scary. As soon as I would realize that my husband was starting a rage attack, my stomach would tighten up and I would start to panic, because I would not know the outcome.
The worst part of it was for me, the lack of apologies or any show of remorse whatsoever. How can a man be happy with himself, treating his wife this way? I just imagine that if I EVER did that to another human being, I would be consumed with self loathing.
It has to really be mental illness. That is the only way I can justify it. Seems like a very serious case of NPD Narcissistic Personality Disorder. The average person does not behave this way. Jeez, I am so glad to be a calm and rational human being.
I left. I bailed! I did not want that relationship to turn me into a bitter, angry person, because I have my whole life to live. From now on, I choose only kind, compassionate people in my life. I like gentle and respectful people. Anybody who screams at another and smashes stuff against walls to intimidate is a LOSER!!!!!
Best of luck to all of you in dealing with these difficult individuals. Especially when there is still a lot of love involved. Love is not supposed to hurt! Marriage is a sacred contract between two people who are supposed to guard over each others hearts and protect them as if they were fine china or the most beautiful flowers. That is what I still and always will believe.
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