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This was an article that needed to be written. Yes, there have been too many blogs about the subject, and I don't bother to read them.
It seems that some psychologists have diagnosed Tump as having NPD. He's certainly brash and uncouth, but it seems irrisponsable to diagnose without interviewing him personally, by these professionals. It strikes me as un-professional and does nothing more than whip up more uncertainty about the President.
Narcissism
Sorry, But Your Ex Probably Isn't a Narcissist
Being selfish doesn't mean you necessarily have a personality disorder.
Posted Dec 30, 2019
If you want to write an article that gets read by thousands of people, be sure to include some variant of "narcissism" in the title. It seems there is a great hunger for info on narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) — what it is, how to identify it, how to co-exist with someone who exhibits NPD, or how to go on after having been in a relationship with a narcissist.
This great interest is curious, given that NPD is a relatively rare condition — at least it is one encountered only infrequently in clinical settings. The highest prevalence rates reported run around 6-7% for men and 4-5% for women. But people with NPD are not known for seeking help from mental health clinicians. In fact, if a patient were to tell me that they were worried that they might have narcissistic personality disorder, I could be fairly certain that they don't — narcissists don't worry about being narcissists. To do so would imply the presence of empathy: "I worry about being a narcissist because being a narcissist would mean that I am harming or exploiting others and I wouldn't want to do that." This is logic that does not compute for someone with a true case of NPD.
People with NPD are most likely to "come to clinical attention" in the context of treatment for some other mental disorder, usually a mood disorder or a substance use disorder. Comorbidity with alcohol dependence is around 13%, and clinical lore also associates NPD with cocaine use. In my clinical practice, people with NPD usually present with a depressive reaction after some setback or loss: a rejection from medical school; failure to secure a sought-after promotion; the withdrawal of support from financial backers on a business venture; a spouse leaving them.
Treatment is usually short-term: Remind them of their many strengths and past accomplishments, show them some positive regard (even admiration), and their narcissistic defenses are quickly restored, their mood symptoms resolve, and suddenly they wonder why they have been wasting their time talking with a relative nobody like me. In a few cases, I have convinced patients with NPD to engage in longer-term therapy in order to prevent future depressive reactions or to address their substance misuse, but it is not often their preference.
NPD is a severe personality disorder, and it shares characteristics with another severe personality disorder, antisocial personality disorder (ASPD). Both NPD and ASPD are marked by empathy deficits: Not only do these individuals not concern themselves with other people's rights or feelings, they cannot seem to imagine what other people might be feeling or thinking. I once watched a medical student interview a man with both ASPD and NPD who had been arrested for beating his girlfriend. She asked him how he thought the girlfriend felt while she was being assaulted. "How should I know what she's feeling? Angry, probably." The best he could come up with was what he had been feeling (or at least, the "screen emotion" that he perceived himself to be feeling — in his case I suspect that shame was the emotion that sparked the anger, which fueled the violence).
If you can't conceive of other people as fully formed human beings with inner lives as vivid as (or even richer than) your own, it becomes far easier to use them as means to your own ends — that is, to exploit them.
It is essential to remember that NPD is a "disorder" — its presence results in dysfunction across contexts. There are pervasive negative consequences of exhibiting NPD: occupational, social, health, legal, etc. It is rarely the case that someone with NPD is generally well-liked, professionally successful, and healthy, but saves all his pathology for his primary intimate relationship. People with NPD have a serious mental disorder and they deserve care and treatment.
On the other hand, there are many, many more people who are simply selfish and mean than there are people who have NPD. This is an important distinction. If your ex-spouse was selfish and mean, it's okay to describe them that way and to not go reaching for a psychiatric explanation for their behavior. I wonder if our society has become so terrified of making value judgments that we resort to "value-free" psychiatric diagnosis instead. We won't dare say that Mozart is musically superior to Taylor Swift because "that's just a matter of opinion" as opposed to an objective statement of truth. We won't say that our exes are "selfish and mean" because that sounds like a value judgment, so instead we say they have NPD: "I'm not judging; they just meet all the diagnostic criteria I found online."
There's a saying in psychiatric diagnosis: "If you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras." People who are selfish and mean are common, like horses. People with NPD are relatively rare, like zebras. There's a reason why Taylor Swift wrote, "Why you gotta be so mean?" and not "Why do you have Narcissistic Personality Disorder?"
Facebook image: wavebreakmedia/Shutterstock
Narcissism
Submitted by Kat on December 30, 2019 - 1:12pm
Or maybe your ex is narcissist
Submitted by Anonymous on December 30, 2019 - 3:51pm
Because narcissists rarely seek help from the psychological community we have no clue what percentage of the population are narcissists.
Narcissists are selfish and mean. If your ex is selfish and mean that could be because they are a narcissist. And yes, we have the right to judge and put a label on the obvious.
you're right
Submitted by anonymous too on December 30, 2019 - 7:14pm
I would suggest, for example, if you are insecurely attached and if one of your parents was high on the NPD spectrum, then your ex is probably a narcissist. This author was unfair to throw so much shade on victims of abuse by making such a blanket statement.
I support survivors too, but come on
Submitted by also anonymous on December 31, 2019 - 12:47pm
I understand that many people have been through hell in abusive relationships, but I don't think that gives people the right to throw around mental illness labels unnecessarily. People can be abusive without being mentally ill. There is no harm in just calling someone an abuser and leaving it at that.
Narcissist is a general term
Submitted by Anonymous on December 31, 2019 - 1:02pm
Calling somebody a narcissist isn't providing them with an official mental diagnosis. It's a descriptor.
You are right. Thats exactly
Submitted by Anonymous on January 2, 2020 - 12:55pm
You are right. Thats exactly what I thought.
using the word "abuser"
Submitted by A on December 31, 2019 - 3:10pm
The term abuser is a highly charged one especially in the legal system. High conflict divorces often have people with emotions at a high level throwing around many accusations. Because attorneys have been known to encourage a win with their clients by telling them to use the word abuse, there can be enormous harm by using this term. Having a diagnosis of NPD is different than having narcissistic characteristics = the word narcissism having in the past decade become differentiated from the diagnosis. "Abuser" however, though it could be used in many non harmful ways, "she abuses the privilege of a free rental car" for example, but used in legal system it is potentially able to have someone lose custody or incarcerated.
NARC ABUSE SURVIVOR
Submitted by Izzy Man on April 25, 2020 - 10:45am
This article is an insult to those of us that have been through the nightmare of a narcissistic relationship. My Narc Ex abused me mentally , verbally and physically. I am a 210 pound athletic male and she was a 120 lb tyrant that I was seriously so afraid of , walking on eggshells constantly and just sick of the roller coaster from hell ride. You could see the change in my physical appearance in photos taken right before moving in together to after I left. Its truly sad and I cant even look at them.
It is true that most parasitic NPD's never seek therapy , because"theres nothing wrong with me?!?!? You have the problem". Or they manipulate their way through therapy and nothing changes.
I had a great therapist who was very familiar with the signs and symptoms of victims of narcissistic abuse and who helped me get away. I lost everything, personal belongings, financially ruined and a smear campaign spread about me that was fired like a nuclear bomb to destroy my reputation professionally, as well as with friends and family.
My therapist also had a cute little animal analogy to this conundrum she said "If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck."
And she was right.
Amen
Submitted by Jon Galt on October 8, 2020 - 11:07pm
Went through the same thing you did brother. I hope you're doing well.
side note: The author of this article P.hD must be in denial.
Then this article isn't directed at you...
Submitted by Jesse on October 20, 2020 - 1:28am
I know more than a few people in my life who throw around "narcissistic" or "sociopath" like they genuinely believe half of the humans they've interacted with qualify as either of those things. The point of this article is that, like the article says, if you hear hoofbeats, think "horse" rather than "zebra", and only think "zebra" if you've been trained in zoology to recognize all the tiny nuances and difference in features that allow you to properly identify species.
Maybe it quacks like a duck, but do you know what duck species it is? Can you actually identify that? Let's say you're going mushroom hunting for magic mushrooms, it is VERY difficult for someone untrained in identifying fungi to actually identify a mushroom accurately. The difference between identifying disorders and identifying mushrooms is that people realize their limits when it comes to identifying mushrooms, but for some reason they think they're an expert in psychology and psychiatry despite having no idea about 99% of the criteria that need to be satisfied in order to diagnose someone with a specific disorder.
How many times have you heard violent criminals being described as "sociopaths" and "psychopaths"? It's every single time... I haven't ever seen a killer NOT be labeled a sociopath. But guess what? The vast majority of them aren't sociopaths, they're neurotypical. I mean, maybe they have some disorders like anxiety, depression, maybe bipolar disorder or something that took them down a very bad path that led to them killing someone (say something with a depressive disorder gets into drugs to cope with their depression which leads them down a path of increasing desperacy, until they accidentally get into some deep trouble and end up killing someone who didn't deserve to be killed).
I believe you when you say your ex was a narcissist. But what you aren't realizing is that 99% of the time someone's called a narcissist it isn't because they're emotionally abusive and they are legitimately narcissistic, it's simply because they're selfish human beings who struggle in their day to day and as such spend all of their energy on themselves and don't have any left over to care about other people in their lives. That is not narcissism, however. 99% of the time when someone calls a person a narcissist you can safely assume that the person isn't actually a narcissist.
It's not an insult to survivors, no, people throwing around these conditions and disorders in every situation that they can think of in order to demonize a human being for simply being a little bit selfish and self-centered is insulting to survivors, to people who actually have actually been in abusive relationships with ASPD and NPD-diagnosed people.
NPD's rarely seek treatment; unless forced to do so
Submitted by AO on December 31, 2019 - 9:53am
Per my therapist, NPD's almost never seek treatment of their own volition as that is in direct conflict with the tenets of this disorder. So, the percentage of NPD's in a clinical setting is definitely low as there is usually some other reason the NPD is in treatment- legally required, court-ordered from family court, etc.
Also, if you have parents who are NPD (or fit the criteria) there is a good possibility that you will end up with an NPD at some point (especially if you haven't sought therapy to recognize the NPD signs).
You can google NPD symptoms/characteristics-- it is not a diagnosis, but it may help you name it so you can help yourself. That is the most important part-- you won't be able to "fix" an NPD, so you have to focus on helping yourself.
your desperation
Submitted by j on February 8, 2020 - 6:55pm
The saddest thing of all about your comment, and line of reasoning, is that whenever and wherever you voice it, a million retarded echo chambers will agree with you, reinforcing your stupid beliefs. You are everything that is wrong with Tribalism, and groupthink. Examine your shadow.
Poorly written inadequate article
Submitted by Jaimie Rose on July 24, 2020 - 6:08am
"Because narcissists rarely seek help from the psychological community we have no clue what percentage of the population are narcissists.
Narcissists are selfish and mean. If your ex is selfish and mean that could be because they are a narcissist. And yes, we have the right to judge and put a label on the obvious."
Not only do I agree with this statement, but I'd also like to add that I found out that I was narcsistically abused by going to a therapist. I found out a "friend" I had been living with who traumatized my family and me, was NPD. They are way more common. My mother has NPD traits as well. They are also about their image and making themselves look good. Do they deserve help? Sure, and JAIL TIME. I definitely agree with one point in the article, and that is that I've noticed people on line talking about their exs, saying they have NPD based on an article they read, and then go on to describe behaviors and symptoms that are not congruent with NPD, and very likely other things their ex was struggling with.
So Yeah, This article was a huge disappointment. Another thing I notice on the internet, is that it's all about NPD ex's. They are parents, they are predators, they are successful because they care about their image and money. They are cut throats and work and have no remorse, no empathy, and are satisified with bullying a desired agreement out of someone even if it's obviously not genuine and just done to get away from them, they don't care about what really is. They care about what they can make things look like to their own benefit. They are CEOs, they are nurses, they are bankers, they are monsters that will never admit or even consider their own monstrosity.
So yeah, I found out about NPDs from a therapist. I'm still trying to recover from all the trauma I've been put through.
And articles like these aren't helping keep people safe or helping true victims.
If you wanted to deter people from using the word carelessly, you should have written a real article.
And since NPDs do not think anything is wrong with them... and they don't typically get help unless it's for show or supply... you can't say it's rare. Even when they do get help they can easily fool typical therapists.
Article is a breath of fresh air
Submitted by James OBrien MD on December 30, 2019 - 4:03pm
You can never really know what goes on between two people unless you talk to both of them or have good collateral information like a police report. Even then there are many layers of complexity. There is no reason to ever assume that the reader is inherently more ethical or less personality disordered than the third party they are involved with. So, yes the author is probably right. The ex is usually not a narcissist, not gaslighting you or being toxic whatever the hell that means. Well, probably being (new rules)toxic because that's now basically a subjective term for something that used to be empirical and essentialist.
I'm reminded of one of the funniest articles I ever read on the Onion when it used to be good. It was called "Bluesman's woman tells the other side of the story" or something like that. She pointed out that she was not in fact a devil woman that done him wrong but that he was a ramblin man who had a cheating heart and a whiskey problem.
The Word Has Evolved
Submitted by Ann Bradley on December 30, 2019 - 4:17pm
My view is a linguistic one. Just as we have gone from a brand name in many instances (think, one might say, "Do you have a Kleenex" instead of "Do you have a tissue") the same has happened here. While NPD does remain a clinical diagnosis the word narcissist has come to describe all sorts of behaviors which we might just as easily put under the umbrella term "He's a jerk." I tell people to use this in their divorce- not the word narcissist. No judge or therapist or evaluator wants to hear that word from someone divorcing unless it comes with a clinical diagnosis. However, it is common now to use that word to cover a multitude of behaviors and characteristics. When I went online in 2002 with a site on narcissism if you googled the word narcissist there were 2 sites dedicated to the topic. Sam Vaknin was there first and I followed not long after. So not true today!
Narcissist is a word, just like jerk
Submitted by Anonymous on December 30, 2019 - 4:36pm
Narcissus was a hunter in Greek mythology. This isn't a medical term out of some complex medical dictionary. Nobody owns the word narcissist and anyone can use. If the shoe fits.....
Makes all the difference in the world
Submitted by James OBrien MD on December 30, 2019 - 7:46pm
First of all "jerk" and "toxic" describe nothing about the behavior of the other part other than how it makes the user feel. Joe Friday would not be pleased. A jerk can be someone who gave you a black eye or who didn't notice a new haircut or who just said no. It's not at all descriptive word, and it's not even a good literary word.
Narcissism can now mean anything from NPD to narcissistic behavior (which is universal) or they didn't do what I like, which is basically narcissistic projection.
I hate seeing terms misused and used nebulously, or being used to muddy situations instead of clarifying them.
Gaslighting seems to be another one that has lost its original meaning.
Like "gaslighting," the word "narcissist" is overused...
Submitted by Bryana on December 30, 2019 - 11:01pm
Not all lying and manipulating is "gaslighting." Not all selfishness and lack of empathy is "narcissism."
My ex, I'm pretty sure, really could have been diagnosed as having NPD, given that he was later diagnosed as having psychopathic tendencies.
The only thing about the article that confused me was the reference to narcissists being literally unable to empathize with others. My understanding was that they CAN, but don't CARE to.
Sorry, my ex probably is a narcissist
Submitted by ANONYMOUS on December 31, 2019 - 12:39pm
Estimates are in the US that the up to 6% of the population have red hair. Do you not believe people can have an ex with red hair either? But unlike just a physical property like red hair, people with NPD abuse those closest to them amplifying that statistic.
Given someone with NPD may have multiple ex's and also children there is a multiplier against that 5% for people who are abused by them and suffering. Let's say that's 4 people minimum then 20% of the population at least would be able to say they have suffered NPD abuse. That sounds relatively common and that 4 people is probably a low multiplier.
Your article is dismissing the experience of a large portion of the population and are shaming them for finally calling the abuse out. Shame on you for your cavalier attitude towards abuse.
Agree—Sadly Dismissive Take
Submitted by Cashmere on January 14, 2020 - 11:02am
Exactly right! This is such a painfully dismissive little toss away of an article that I shudder to think of all of the people searching for deeper understanding of what happened to them stumbling across it and being further harmed. Irresponsible in the extreme.
More interesting and useful would be an attempt to evaluate shifts in culture that might account for this rise in the need for survivors of abuse to understand things like gaslighting, image management, lack of empathy and so forth. Given our selfie and social media driven world, the ease of digital cheating, and the fact that anyone with a mind to could easily whip out his or her cell phone, fire up an app, and have a new hook-up partner the same day, is it any wonder that the gulf between people who think of relationships in long-term ways and those just looking to be happy in the moment grows?
Seems pretty obvious that these shifts are worth tending to. Sure would expect anybody professionally involved in Psychology to think more deeply, and approach this phenomenon with more curiosity, more appreciation of complexity, and much greater empathy.
Sorry, my ex probably is a narcissist
Submitted by Jill on June 30, 2020 - 6:33am
I agree. Thank you for your post.
Emotional abuse common at the hands of one with NPD
Submitted by George on December 31, 2019 - 4:34pm
Sadly, my daughter suffered in a 12 year marriage with a man who has NPD. When they both took enneagram evaluations as part of a ministry they worked for he registered nearly zero in the Type 2 (caring, interpersonal, empathetic, sincere, and warm-hearted,...) category. Our daughter married right out of our house - never living on her own to learn who she was. It was her husband's second marriage as the first one failed because, as he stated, "she was crazy".
His thinking, his actions, his relationships (or better said - lack thereof - even with our family), his failed therapy sessions (of course the fault of inadequate therapists), etc., etc., etc, all contributed to my daughter's decline in knowing who she was - having her own personality, desires and dreams - leaving her in clinical depression, in therapy and on anti-depressants - not at all recognizable as the young lady we raised. All she was as a unique individual after that length of marriage was suppressed - and oppressed - and who he wanted her to be was daily, subtly and often abusively pushed upon her. There was never any physical abuse as he would have had to admit that he wasn't the Christian husband that he professed himself to be. That eventually resulted in the ministry releasing them from working for them.
Now after a year separation (for a 2nd time - don't ask) she is finally learning who she is. Her talents that he could see no value in (at least to his benefit) are coming out - things I didn't realize she was so gifted in doing. She still has a long road to travel and whether her husband has a place in it remains to be seen. She is actually trying to help her sister-in-law who is suffering similarly under emotional abuse at the hands of the brother - both like their father, sadly.
I write this hopefully as help to anyone who may be going through the same process with a child or loved one. There is always hope. Sometimes the road is longer and the decisions are more difficult, but there's hope. God gave us all hope and directed us to good counseling and resources.
NPD and ASPD
Submitted by gjwriter on December 31, 2019 - 4:48pm
I think there are more of them than people realize. Since they rarely seek treatment, it is genuinely impossible to know the number that is out there. The NPD and ASPD is a seriously frightening individual. When exposed to one, as an average person, it is impossible to wrap your brain around a human being that can behave that outrageously. It is true; they are rarely successful, well-liked, or in stable relationships. They certainly would like the world to think they are grander than anyone or anything you've ever met before. Healthy people who encounter this insanity spend a significant amount of time questioning their own sanity. No human being could be this awful. They are.
Along with the personality disorder, substance use and abuse create a horrific rage that you can't imagine. I firmly believe these individuals need to be institutionalized and medicated. They have no business being allowed to roam freely.
So you want to lock people up because they make you feel bad
Submitted by James OBrien MD on December 31, 2019 - 11:14pm
rather than danger to others, self or grave disability due to mental illness? Do they get to lock you up when you make them feel bad?
Who's to say that these monsters you revile are not the readers of the article?
There's a 50/50 chance the reader is more antisocial or more narcissistic than the offending partner.
We don't know and the writer of any article here shouldn't assume that the reader is a victim and not the perp. Most of the time it is both.
It's more than that
Submitted by gjwriter on January 1, 2020 - 7:22am
It is clear you've never been the victim of an NPD/ASPD, and so you victim blame. My words are harsh, but the abuse can be deadly. It is important to understand how really sick many of these people are and that they prey on other people emotionally and violently to make themselves feel better. This article is likely discussing the NPD lite, and it needs to be understood that there is a spectrum of those who are much, much sicker. I understand you take offense to what I say. My experience has been that they do more than make a victim feel bad.
If they commit a crime yes but not hurt feelings
Submitted by James OBrien MD on January 1, 2020 - 1:14pm
this kind of mentality that someone must pay for hurting my feelings is being nurtured on college campuses and is incredibly dangerous for a free and open society. Like I said, you like this now and you're riding your emotions thoughtlessly. But when you hurt someone's feelings, and if you are a human being you eventually will, don't complain when they come to lock you up.
It is unfortunate that you
Submitted by gjwriter on January 1, 2020 - 1:19pm
It is unfortunate that you are missing my point. You are are not understanding how seriously violent these people can be.
I mostly disagree with gjwriter here
Submitted by George on January 1, 2020 - 12:34am
I have to disagree with you in principle. If the individual suffering from true NPD is violent then yes justice may dictate prison time. Otherwise, non-violent individuals need to be pitied and should seek long term counseling. The victims of emotional abuse at the hands of a person with NPD often need some sort of intervention as they are often so caught up trying to make their relationship work that they don’t see themselves and that they are no longer able to be who they really are - they are living a lie fed to them by their significant other.
If only it worked on
Submitted by gjwriter on January 1, 2020 - 7:25am
If only it worked on principle. Pitied is not what they should be, and long term counseling is something they will never seek. You see, they are not the problem, everyone around them is the problem.
A victim of a physically violent NPD?
Submitted by George on January 1, 2020 - 4:18pm
I can easily see the extreme side of an individual with NPD and serious mental extremes being physically violent. But, classifying ALL NPD individuals as physically violent or even potentially physically violent is an rash generalization. It would be akin to calling anyone who drinks an alcoholic and to add “potentially” can be an overuse of a word to try to drive home ones bias or opinion. I’d have to see detailed studies on all this - especially in connection with violent criminals and a of correlation to level of education, religion, gender cultural norms, etc. thrown in.
Completely non-nuanced article that contradicts itself
Submitted by Htown on January 1, 2020 - 1:49am
It's quite possible that selfish and mean people are getting labeled as narcissists by the uneducated, but narcissistic abuse is much more than being mean or selfish. It's trauma bonding with an ongoing push-pull to keep the target off balance. It is the many subtle insults or criticisms couched as constructive feedback. It is the complete inability to accept criticism or blame for anything. It is never making a genuine apology for a wrongdoing. It is the word salad method of confusing the target and obfuscating misdeeds. It is not being there when you're sick or in the ER. It is projecting malevolent motives and intentions onto the target. It is cycling through the idealize > devalue > discard > hoover process again and again. Does this author even cite sources? Bad on you, Psychology Today.
Thank you HTown, for finally
Submitted by Jen on January 3, 2020 - 4:13pm
Thank you HTown, for finally addressing what so many articles fail to do: actually describe the behaviors that ARE emblematic of NPDs or people exhibiting numerous NPD traits. I’ve read probably a dozen articles over the past year that all had a similar message: just because somebody is arrogant or mean doesn’t make them a narcissist. I'm assuming that these articles are mostly addressed to the average person who does not know the idiosyncratic, dangerous, malevolent behaviors of true NPDs or people with many NPD traits. Why, then, do so few of these same articles give any examples of standard NPD behaviors beyond arrogance? This article was more helpful than some, but why are NPD behaviors such as raging, blame shifting, withholding, deceit, secrecy, bragging, coldness, lack of empathy, contempt, devaluation, projection, stonewalling, silent treatment (the list goes on), etc not discussed at any length? These are specific, easily recognizable behaviors that go way beyond "mean," and are often remarkably consistent from one NPD to another. If we really want to educate the public about the true meaning of the word, we need to take the time to give examples of these behaviors, rather than simply announcing that not everyone is a narcissist.
Thank you, Htown
Submitted by Bryana on January 4, 2020 - 12:21am
You get it. (And you described my ex perfectly, even not being in the ER.)
Narcissism is not a diagnostic term (its a personality pattern)
Submitted by Anonymous on January 2, 2020 - 12:53pm
Firstly being a narcissist is not the same as Having NPD or Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Narcissism is a personality trait (just like saying a person is agreeable, conscientious, stubborn etc) and there are more many narcissists with few of them having NPD. Narcissism lies on a spectrum so its possible for a mean and selfish person to have narcissistic traits. But being a narcissist is not the same as having NPD. Even though your article does mention some good points like people worried about being a narcissist are not narcissist because that would be contradicting some narcissistic traits but your idea that the ex might not be a narcissist might lead to proxy gas lighting some people who have endured narcissistic abuse. These people are not interested in labeling someone with a psychiatric diagnosis, they are looking for answers to understand what happened to them.
What is narcissism?
Submitted by Natasha on January 15, 2020 - 5:37pm
I've always taken narcissism, in the context of NPD at least, to mean an insatiable need to control how others perceive you and an insistence that others validate your identity. You see yourself as good looking or want others to see you that way, you try to make yourself as physically attractive as possible and fish for compliments. And if they're not forthcoming, you think you're probably ugly and become depressed. That sort of thing.
What people are describing now is using narcissism to describe any sort of entitled, selfish behaviour. If I say someone is selfish, they can get a decent picture in their head of someone who consistently puts all of their needs ahead of those around them, no matter how minor or major they are. But if I call someone a narcissist, what does that mean nowadays?
I've seen people called narcissists for displaying a very wide range of behaviours. What gets on my nerves is why are we pathologizing normal human behavior? Don't we have the DSM 5 for that??
Have you ever been with a Narcissist?
Submitted by Von on January 28, 2020 - 9:32am
Have You ever been with a narcissist?
for Yrs. like for 10-25 yrs.?
You write this Article. well i think i was a victim.
if you think Shes Not.
Can you help me then. Explain all the Fucked Shit that Happened in My life since im with the Narcisst.
Help me and my daughters Explain in to us. you seems to know A lot of
“Not Narcissist”.
if you said ex is not Narcissist. Phd.
Allow people to give a name to abuse
Submitted by Stella on April 29, 2020 - 1:11pm
I know many people are mislabeling jerks as narcissists. I remember reading of a woman who was seduced and then ghosted by a man and claimed the guy was a narcissist, just on the basis of the fact he used her. The guy was an insensitive jerk, it certainly does not mean he had NPD. Same for some women who are left after 25 years of marriage for a younger version of themselves. That is not NPD either...
That said, please, allow people who were mistreated for their whole lives and were so unlucky to end up with someone who emotionally abused them again to call their abusers "narcissists". It does no harm to you and can help other people healing.
There are people who TRULY experience abuse at the hands of reckless, egomaniac individuals The coercive control, lies, manipulation and mind games remain quite uniform across these cases. What is wrong in calling an emotional abuser who is infatuated with himself a narcissist?
I do not think people who call others "narcissists" do so without having done some self-reflection. On the contrary, they come to certain conclusions, because they are desperately looking for answers to the question how they could fail someone so much that he treated them so badly.. Labelling someone as a narcissist can be the first step of a healing process. It is an act of empowerment in the first place.
The label "narcissist" loses in importance down the way of healing and at some point you stop caring whether the guy was a narcissist or just an abusive axxxx.
As for the people who claim, they do not know what "toxic" means, I am glad they never had to deal with someone who embodied well the adjective.
Your article
Submitted by Jill on June 30, 2020 - 6:09am
NPD is not rare. It would be more accurate to measure the incidence of NPD by the victims rather than the NPDd person as the latter rarely present to where data is collected. It is the misguided belief that NPD is rare that leaves victims largely to their own devices to heal from the hugely damaging consequences of having been in a relationship with someone with NPD. Physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually damaged sometimes beyond repair as some go insane and some suicide unable to tolerate the intense damage they have endured and not capable of the rigours of learning and healing which takes years. Each victim is likely to lose 75% of their support network due to the NPDd person's scapegoating to others to discredit the victim. The deny, attack, reverse victim and offender behaviour the perpetrator repeatedly does has the real victim seeing themselves as the perpetrator until they find out they were never at fault. Covert NPD with sociopathic traits - behind closed doors. Unbelievably cruel and damaging. I know. I lived with that person. I have chronic health problems, brain damage and haven't been able to work for 5 years. Chronic insomnia had me exhausted for 14 years - very little sleep. Complex PTSD, HPA axis dysregulation, digestive/ nervous/ cardiovascular/ immune/ endocrine system dysregulation. Night terrors. Chronic stress.
Be a pioneer in Narcissism and start talking with victims. They will be like a swarm of locusts com8ng towards you as they are common as is the NPD abuse that vreated the victim.
Please listen and be kind.
We need help and there are not many listening yet.
Your post has been used on Quora to discredit the victims who value the forum to connect with those that understand and can validate what they have been through. It is important to them beyond anything else.
David McPhee a psychology professional has expanded on your post in a tormenting way. Have a look and change the narrative by researching the accounts of victims first hand. Write that book and change the fabric of societal thinking and realisation.
This is a horrific article
Submitted by Anonymous on July 1, 2020 - 9:21am
It seems as if Glenn Sullivan Ph.D.
"Acquainted with the Night" (whatever the hell that means?)
Has never been acquainted with a true NPD or in a close relationship with an individual with NPD or BPD. Or he is a narcissist himself (I mean c'mon look at the ultra cool shades in the pic) .
This was an irresponsible post by someone that claims to be a mental health professional. I have watched a good friends life be destroyed by such a person and even I didnt believe his wild stories at first until I saw a good person turn to a ghost and the shell of the human being he used to be as the months progressed and witnessed the lunacy with my own eyes.
This isnt a subject that should be taken lightly and is a horrible slap in the face to the victims that were seriously abused mentally, physically and emotionally by an NPD partner that permanently altered their universe and left them trying to pick up the pieces of a traumatic train wreck.
This author("Acquainted with the Night") I believe, is getting off on all comments negative /positive on this post, in true narcissistic fashion.
What a horrid human being.
HOW TO GET YOUE EX LOVER BACK
Submitted by suzan on July 8, 2020 - 10:02pm
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Glenn Sullivan is a QUACK
Submitted by Get a REFUND on July 18, 2020 - 5:16am
Hey Sullivan...
Get a refund on that PhD (Piled Higher and Deeper)...because you have NO idea what you are talking about, My ex is a narc and he hits all the DSM criteria. You don't know unless you lived with one...get a refund on your degree. you should be working cleaning bathrooms at an Arby's because that's all you are good for.
NPD
Submitted by Anon on August 7, 2020 - 3:10pm
Taylor Swift actually does mention narcissism in her songs. I think it is helpful to learn about narcissism in order to understand a person with high narcissistic traits. Narcissism is on a spectrum, there is such thing as healthy narcissism. If someone is so selfish and mean that it interferes with their ability to be intimate, connect, and have empathy, if it interferes with them having healthy interpersonal relationships, these are narcissistic traits. Does it mean they have NPD? Not necessarily. Simplifying narc traits as just being selfish and mean is gaslighting the victims of narcissistic abuse. For us, it helps to know about this disorder, it helps us make sense of the abuse we've endured, how to heal, and how to recognize these traits in others in order to avoid another abusive situation.
I disagree
Submitted by Marie on August 23, 2020 - 7:59pm
I will agree that the word "narcissism" gets thrown around a bit too much these days but I think that this article is incredibly invalidating to people who have suffered for years because of their involvement with someone who checks every box of NPD. Good luck getting someone with NPD to go to therapy unless court ordered. I believe, correct me if I am wrong, a person can not be diagnosed with NPD unless they themselves are experiencing distress or negative effects in their lives. Because of those 2 things, I believe that the estimated percentage of people in our population with NPD is much lower than it actually is. The people who are negatively affected by NPD are not those with NPD, they are the people who live with them. True, we shouldn't be diagnosing, we should probably just call them abusers but if it weren't for information on NPD many victims would still be with their abusers or would still believe that everything was their fault because understanding this disorder lets us know that we are not alone, we are not stupid for falling for their manipulation, that no matter how long we try to please them and do everything right that they will never see the light and become a supportive and kind person. Understanding that it is their personality, who they are, is what gives many "permission" to leave and for the first time realize that they are not stupid, lazy, at fault for everything, nothing, useless, what they saw and heard really did happen, that they are not crazy. This can take years to recover from. It is a very serious issue. The percentage can't be that low, I have known 3. My ex was diagnosed with APD finally after being ordered by the courts to be evaluated. One of his friends made my ex look like an angel. My grandmother was definitely NPD. She set out to make me hate my own father by the time I was 4 years old, she told me he was worthless to get me to love her more than him. If you said something she didn't like she would point a large kitchen knife at your eye and say "You did this" she did this to all of her close family and for any reason. When I was about 7 or 8 she did this because I asked if I could have a slice of cheese. She chased my grandfather with a knife if he put pepper on the food she cooked because he was telling her that her food wasn't the best. I could go on and on but the point is, these people were not JUST mean and selfish. They sought out to destroy relationships, make everyone live in fear, doubt their own reality, and live with constant, health destroying anxiety. Of course, the 3 people I mentioned were admired outside of the home and seen as good people. I was always told how lucky I was to have such a loving grandmother and such a hardworking husband. Little did they know. All they knew was what the "abuser" told them and I could never set anyone straight because they had already told everyone else that I was crazy and had a mental disorder so that anything I ever said would be dismissed as just part of my crazy.
NPD
Submitted by Violet on September 19, 2020 - 8:00am
I think there’s a lack of understanding around diagnostic criteria in general. Someone can be anxious or low after a difficult time and not have depression, someone can be selfish and not have NPD. However, it’s important for victims to not feel they can’t speak about NPD in spouses or ex spouses. My partner does have NPD, properly diagnosed by different clinicians and due to parenting and the experiences he had as a teenager. He is in the lower end of the spectrum and, after years of huge effort, agreed to seek therapy. His expression is usually covert and includes playing the victim. It took a long time for anyone to listen or believe me as his partner that he was having these issues, partly due to the twisted narrative on his side and partly down to the assumption that because it’s less usual it was unlikely. Therapy has improved things, but it’s still difficult at times. There’s far less gaslighting, but still issues around truthfulness. In reality, I think lots of people with NPD have had attachment issues and not been parented well. In my spouse’s case, huge amounts of overpraise, never being disciplined or given boundaries, yet having needs like heat and lighting in the house overlooked and experiencing trauma without stable emotional guidance through it. What is also often missed is that if the person with NPD can receive help and unpick these issues, learn to challenge thought patterns and black and white thinking, learn a more empathetic way of being, then there can be improvement. It doesn’t always happen (depends partly on spectrum) and no one should remain in a place they are being abused, but it’s often unmentioned that NPD can be treatable. I think it’s better to seek professional help and, where your spouse can’t do that, look at ending the relationship. Professionals can tell you if your spouse has a personality disorder or another condition and they can offer support. Self diagnosis or diagnosis of another is best avoided.
Are some people uneducated
Submitted by Rachel Zamstein on October 10, 2020 - 11:49am
Are some people uneducated and quick to label someone else? Yes. Maybe some people who accuse others of NPD are actually abusers and narcissists themselves... I mean it is really common for a narcissist to accuse others of what they’re doing. But I would say for the most part if someone is legitimately saying they have been abused by someone, it’s compassionate for us to trust the intelligence of our fellow human beings. I was sexually, and physically assaulted by my ex... and then he told me I was abusing him because with his hands strangling my neck I asked him to stop, and when he didn’t I said I would punch him in the nose if he didn’t stop strangling me. This person would constantly play the victim and demean me whenever I would stand up for myself in the relationship, constantly elevate himself and put me down. He would deny things he said, and had no empathy for anyone else except for himself. He couldn’t be wrong; he was the constant authority. He changed reality to suit his needs, to the point of delusion. Until I felt so insane that I no longer even trusted my own memory of actual events I had witnessed. He would promise to go to therapy and once I started believing him, he swore he never said that. He said all his problems were because of everyone else, his ex wife... his parents, and then when we broke up now he’s trying to make it seem like him and his ex wife are best friends all of a sudden just to further make me question if the abuser was actually me. I had two separate therapists in the span of five years I was with him, that both said he was gaslighting me, projecting and emotionally abusing me based on text conversations and emails I provided to them. There’s much worse things that happened which I can’t say because they involve children. There ARE sociopaths and narcissists out there and they can be malignant and really hurt people. It might even be considered further gaslighting of victims to publish an article that makes a blanket statement like “you’re imagining things” without know someone and how much education they have, or how much therapeutic work we have done on ourselves to be able to see a relationship dynamic that we ourselves are involved in with the least amount of bias as possible. Some of us actually have survived abuse.
Furthermore
Submitted by Rachel Zamstein on October 10, 2020 - 11:55am
To add... I want to mention I’m not surprised this article is found in psychology today, because the psychiatric/psychological “world” is sorely lacking true healing and understanding. Narcissists are infamous for not seeking therapy, but if they do they are well known for convincing MANY therapists that they (the abuser) are the victim. I don’t mean to demean anyone but the psychology world is in many ways antiquated and needs some refreshment.... the only help I ever found was in doing somatic therapy. The DSM just isn’t cutting it.
Does the label really matter?
Submitted by Natasha on December 19, 2020 - 8:08pm
My ex was a real piece of work. Extremely competitive with me (and others), constant belittlement and jabs, talking poorly about me to his friends, my friends and anyone else who would dare to listen, insults disguised as "jokes" and devaluation of any of my achievements and successes.
I've been told that my ex was a narcissist. Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't. At the end of the day, that label may have explained his behavior, but whatever the issue, YOU NEED TO GET OUT IF YOUR SO IS DOING THAT STUFF TO YOU! Does not matter if he or she has a cluster B disorder or not, an abuser is an abuser and you deserve better.
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