I think narcissists should have some hope. If they want to change, that is the beginning.

Craig Malkin Ph.D.
Narcissism
Can Narcissists Change?
Sometimes, the right approach can soften even the hardest of hearts.
Posted Sep 20, 2013
At the end of May 2013, I wrote an article titled 5 Early Warning Signs You’re with a Narcissist. It sparked a number of rich conversations through comments, emails, facebook, and twitter. Not surprisingly, the vast majority of reactions came from people who feared they were currently in a relationship with a narcissist. Nevertheless, some of them—often among the most heartfelt and desperate of messages—came from people who’d either been diagnosed with Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD), or felt convinced they met criteria for the diagnosis. From both sides, the same question surfaced again and again: Is there hope for those with NPD and the people who love them? Is there anything we can do if we see early warning signs or actual diagnostic criteria besides end the relationship?
As simple as they might seem on the surface, questions like these resonate with some of the deepest concerns in psychology. Can we change our personalities? More to the point, can people who meet criteria for personality disorders open themselves up to new and better experiences in relationships and in the world?
I’m going to go on record as saying yes—I do believe it’s possible for people to change, even if they’ve been diagnosed with something as deeply entrenched and formidable as a personality disorder.
Trait labels like narcissist, or the admittedly less stigmatizing ones like extravert and introvert, merely provide a short hand description. They’re a stand in for “this person scored high on a trait measure of narcissism or extraversion or introversion.” They can never hope to capture the whole person. (Bear in mind that even Jung, who introduced the latter concepts, firmly believed we all possess both an introvert and an extravert side, regardless of how much we tend to one side or the other.) Nevertheless, when they become diagnostic labels, like “narcissist” or “Narcissistic Personality Disorder,” these stark descriptions imply something that goes far beyond a tendency or a style; they suggest permanence and a set of stable, enduring features.
I have more hope than this. I believe that rather than simply being “who we are,” our personalities are also patterns of interaction. That is, personality, whether disordered or not, has as much to do with how (and with whom) we interact as it does with our genes and wired-in temperament. So what pattern does the narcissist follow?
Many have suggested that NPD emerges from an environment in which vulnerability comes to feel dangerous, representing, at worst, either a grave defect, or at best, a stubborn barrier to becoming a worthwhile human being (that’s simplifying a great deal of research and theory, but it’s a workable summary); hence, the correlation between narcissism and insecure attachment styles, in which fears of depending on anyone at all engender constant attempts to control the relationship or avoid intimacy altogether. If you devote yourself to directing interactions or holding people at arms length, it’s a lot harder to become vulnerable (needless to say, the “safety” is largely an illusion). People with NPD have learned to ignore, suppress, deny, project, and disavow their vulnerabilities (or at least try) in their attempts to shape and reshape “who they are” in their interactions. Change—allowing the vulnerability back in— means opening up to the very feelings they’ve learned to avoid at all costs. It’s not that people with NPD can’t change; it’s that it often threatens their sense of personhood to try. And their failed relationships often confirm, in their minds, that narcissism is the safest way to live.
Put another way, narcissists can’t be narcissistic in a vacuum. They need the right audience in order to feel like a star, for example, so they often cultivate relationships with people who stick around for the show, instead of the person. Over time, as their perfect façade starts to slip, their constant fear that people will find them lacking becomes a horrifying reality. The very people who stuck around for the show lose interest when it ends—which merely convinces the narcissist they need to hide their flaws and put on a better show.
Alternatively, even when they fall for someone who could be more than just an adoring fan—someone who offers the hope of a more authentic, enduring love—narcissists still live with the paralyzing fear they’ll somehow be deemed unworthy. Their terror is frequently out of awareness, and nearly always managed with bravado and blame, but it’s profound and palpable. Sadly, their anger at having their mistakes and missteps exposed ultimately alienates their loved ones, and the demise of yet another relationship prompts them to redouble their efforts to avoid vulnerability—in short, it pushes them towards more narcissism. The sad irony of the narcissistic condition is that, in an effort to protect themselves, narcissists inevitably invite the very rejection and abandonment they fear in the first place.
The key, then, to interacting with someone you suspect is narcissistic is to break the vicious circle—to gently thwart their frantic efforts to control, distance, defend or blame in the relationship by sending the message that you’re more than willing to connect with them, but not on these terms; to invite them into a version of intimacy where they can be loved and admired, warts and all—if they only allow the experience to happen.
As a therapist, I've seen first hand that when we change relational patterns, it often transforms even the most inflexible "trait" into something softer, gentler—not a fixed feature, but a protection that eventually yields to touch and intimacy in all the ways one would hope. Narcissism is a way of relating. Not everyone can shift into a more flexible form of intimacy, but some can, and in the next post, I plan to share steps you can take to help you decide whether or not the person you’re with is capable of seeing themselves—and you—through a less constricting lens than the narcissistic world view.
Be sure to read the following responses to this post by our bloggers:
They never change
It's my experience that they will never change because they don't want to. Why should they? They think they're perfect and nothing is wrong with them.
They go around wreaking destruction and devastation without a care in the world; then go onto their next victim. Their end of the relationship is built on lies, deceit and infidelities.
Abandoning narcissists
I think a narcissist can be saved if they're not a full blown npd who's too far gone to be able to see they have a problem. When we discuss narcissists, I think it's important to remember that it's on a spectrum.
They never change...
I agree. I'm the daughter of a narcissistic mother. I dated a man a few years ago who, turns out, was a narcissist. Someone I'd known from high school who I'd reconnected with after his divorce. Charismatic, fun, witty, attractive. Felt that "special connection" they so often claim. Thought "wow," this is great!
Took me a few months, but I figured it out - who he is and why I was attracted to him (unresolved mommy issues but my "relationship" with this man was a huge help for me personally, as thankfully I was also in therapy at the time, in identifying my own codependency and dysfunction and forcing me to finally assert personal boundaries and walk away from something that did not serve me). It helped me understand myself, my mother, and my own unresolved issues so next time, I make better choices in who I date. You can't always know, but next time, any red flags won't be ignored and rationalized.
That said, I wanted to reply to your comment "...end of the relationship [with an N] is built on lies, deceit..." - actually, the beginning is. The "relationship" is NEVER what you think it is, not from day one. How could it possibly be, if the person you are dealing with is simply a facade and a persona they need to project in order to attract partners? The end is simply when you realize that, all along, the other person was never who they tried to be (masks ALWAYS slip), and your "relationship" really wasn't one. Certainly not healthy and functional, and never what YOU thought it was. Any feelings were yours. Any words they said were meant only in the moment they were said. We are, almost always and only, a source of narcissistic supply. If you don't end the "relationship", eventually they will, one way or another. If they don't outright end it, they'll simply cheat, and blame you for their need to (ask this guy's ex-wife). And they are always on the look out for new supply. Old supply gets boring, predictable. Old supply is no longer impressed, often "on to" their deception. They need new supply because, most of the time, old supply leaves, and they can't be without external sources of validation.
This man had affairs (plural) on his wife before they were married, and during. Red flag number 1. Red flag #2 - functioning alcoholic. Red flag #3 - something always felt off to me, but I could never put my finger on it, so I assumed it was my OWN insecurity and fear talking so I pushed it down. Red flag #4 - his words were never congruent with his actions. NEVER. And boy, could he talk.
At the end of the day, what I felt was pity. Some Ns may be capable of change, but most won't ever get help. And it's not because they don't want to - many actually do. But their fear and the false persona that protects the inner wounded child are often so entrenched that they simply cannot force themselves to get help - it's simply too painful to even consider (mine said he knew he needed help but wouldn't get it because he knew how painful it would be). If there's a substance abuse issue added in, it becomes almost impossible because they have to get clean FIRST, otherwise, therapy is pointless. How can a therapist treat someone who's controlled by addiction? You're not treating a person - you're treating a disease.
It's very sad. I feel sorry for people with true NPD, including my mother. She's had therapy, and still ... she is who she is. A narcissist with no empathy.
First, I want to say I am so
First, I want to say I am so sorry for the stuff you've dealt with. I know it is extremely difficult and painful. My father (abusive) was a narcissist, and my husband is, too. He is also an alcoholic. But so am I. I understand that alcoholism is not a desirable trait, but please know that not all of us are narcissists. I drink because I have Bipolar II, and terrible Generalized Anxiety Disorder and Panic Disorder (plus a history of alcoholism in my family). Usually, substance abuse is not a symptom of narcissism, it's a problem usually co-morbid with mood disorders, such as Major Depression or Bipolar. I try really hard to be kind and gentle and thoughtful to everyone. I just wanted to share a different perspective. God bless.
Broken heart
I never knew the Norsis was until I met my ex we were together for eight years and we have a daughter together it's just hard to believe the facts when I read about narcissism It's what I was living for eight years no heart no compassion I was always wrong to this day he is right Put me down to everyone so he can be on his pedestal I have a broken heart I wanted nothing more than to have a family for my daughter this man is as cold as ice I think my problem is I find it so hard to believe that a human being can be so cold no heart and use me as much as I've been used. Unfortunately we have a beautiful daughter together who I love with all my heart and I do worry about her I don't want her getting ruined. All the things I've given in our relationship i've been treated treated not worthy of anything terrible he told me he could never forgive me for what I put him. through. Now I try to put The pieces of my life back together all I do is cry I'm just so sad I've been beaten down manipulated and used so bad it's hard for me to MoveOn. How do I let go of all of the pain of loving someone who literally never loved me
Responding to your comment on psychology today
My husband is a narcasist. I know i spelled that wrong sorry. I am an empath. We have been together over 25 years. I want to leave but probably never will. I dont understand why i stay when i know what he is and have been through and still go through hell and mental agony every day. Its so bad that it has physically damaged me. I have ulcers a heart attack at 36. I have dropped 60 pounds in like 3 months. My kidneys and liver are messed up from not eating. I dont sleep much either. I am a mess. I feel I will grieve myself to death but i still wont leave. Why? I hope im not bothering you i just wanted to talk to someone that could relate to me. Thank you for sharing your story.
Letting Go Of The Narc
Betty, I’ve been we’re you are. For me it was fear that I stayed. Til this day I said God try to warn me through my family but I could not hear them because I believed I was in love with this man and married him. He treated me and my children horribly! I wanted to leave too and once I did and went back and nothing had changed. I know what it’s like to have your birthday and not to receive anything from you husband. I started buying gifts for myself so I wouldn’t be disappointed. I began to pray and ask God to give me the courage to walk away. I am currently in the fight of my life with this man called divorce. It has been extremely stressful and has affected my health. He is bent on hurting me and leave me financially ruined. He launched a smear campaign against me to anyone who would listen, deamed, called me names and play the victim. He is a monster. My point is you can love yourself out of any situation. Make you mirror your best friend. You have to start speaking life affirmations to yourself. When you stand in front of the mirror tell yourself what you really think about you! I’m beautiful, smart, worthy to be loved the way I want to be loved, strong, etc. you have to change your mind about your perception of who you are. Your life depends on it. I will pray for your strength and you are worthy.
Narcissists can't really
Narcissists can't really change any more than you or I could. It's too ingrained in their personality. It's who they are, and they wouldn't know how to become something else. Similar to trans-gender, they can pretend to change but it's never going to be completely real. In the case of NPD, pretense isn't going to be sustainable for long because they ultimately have to be who they are.
Narcissists can't really
Narcissists can't really change any more than you or I could. It's too ingrained in their personality. It's who they are, and they wouldn't know how to become something else. Similar to trans-gender, they can pretend to change but it's never going to be completely real. In the case of NPD, pretense isn't going to be sustainable for long because they ultimately have to be who they are.
Not sure if a female covert
Not sure if a female covert narcissist can be changed. Sounds like my ex gf who cheated on me with this other guy said that he wouldn't tolerate her "bitching" so she changed.
Thank you
I agree most of us don't want to change... I however have seen my own bullshit! I'm trying to change it... Hurting people has never been my intention and never would be. Honestly I believe I'm narcissistic sociopath! I feel emaphy and I feel love, all I ever craved was love! 8 months worth of being on my own and trying to figure out who I am and why I do what I do is exactly what you said! Fear, its a fear to show what you feel and see inside. The past teaches your brain that no one can be trusted, your experiences shut you off from being able to understand emotions in the same way "normal" people do. How do we fight what we want? My mind is starting to focus, I see my flaws and remember half of what I've done (to drunk to care). To the ones who say we can't change I say watch me! I love to win and I'll beat my own mind if I have to!
A window into the life of a conscious narcissist.
I am a narcissist. Since childhood, it has impacted me throughout my whole life. My mother told me when I was a kid that I could do anything. That I was "so smart" and so I strived for this admiration from my mother at an early age. My goals were to learn as many things as I could to impress my mom. I could talk at 6 months. Multiply, add, subtract at age 3. I was practicing to be the best at every task that was thrown at me. Was winning cub scout competitions, became the best player on my sports teams, and I just put 110% towards everything which I accredit most of the success.
(Right now it sounds like I'm bragging... It feels like I sound that way whenever I talk of myself so I try to avoid that usually. But the reason I'm commenting is in hope that someone maybe have a response.)
I went to school and immediately was the teacher's favorite student. I could converse with adults and understand social norms way beyond my age. I was light-years beyond my classmates trying to beat them in every single way. Step 1, get the best score. Step 2, get done first. I'll try and avoid achievements and stick to thought process.
As I grew up, I continued in sports and video games. It managed to get to the point where I was losing friends because everything we did; (building tree houses, playing basketball, racing bikes, playing madden, drawing the best picture, designing a house, making a craft, singing, playing rock-band instruments) I acted normal, but consciously was lazer focused on beating everyone in every single facet. If I lost at something, I used that as fuel to get better. I wanted my weaknesses to become strengths.
In class, I was honor roll every year. Didnt have many friends and eventually ended up in high school. In high school I started "trying to fit in" more. Following trends and fads. Trying to be the best and getting the cute girl or being popular (realizing that no one evidently showed care in school performance anymore [students wise.]) I tried my few relationships out, and I attempted to be the best partner possible. Sacrificing myself for the other at all costs. Never letting them down. Why? Cause I'm caring? No, because I wanted to be the better of the partners. I would beat people up verbally about their weaknesses and how they needed to work on them, whether that was friendships, the way you talk to the pizza guy, they speed you text me back in, they way you talk to your parents, the way you carry yourself. I was so set that I was perfect at everything or at-least strived to be that whenever others weren't trying they needed to know their mistakes so they could improve as well. Obviously people didn't like this.
On a side note this really did make me excel in adulthood, in terms of never falling into a bad relationship or having a kid, or taking too large of risks because I am above public humiliation and failing in anybody's eyes. But I purposefully disconnect myself from society. I don't approach with women with the fear of rejection. Not being good enough. Something that isn't science and analysis, with an influence of luck. I avoid trying to make new friends because I'm afraid I won't have time for the ones I already have, especially after I have shit on my friends for "not being there when I needed them, but always being there for them."
I tell myself I don't want to approach people because they are all probably stupid (Avg I.Q. is 99) [mine 160.] I tell myself I'll be wasting my time. Trying to communicate with someone who wont even be on the same wave length.
The thought of casual sex entices me, but the thought of saying I had casual sex with someone not meeting the requirements of my 'meter of public admittance to having sex with' deters me from perusing the person. The thought that I would have to go through maybe hundreds of conversations just to find out.
AND all of that above is clearly an excuse to avoid denial for the sake of keeping my self-pride as high as possible. I realize this but I don't know how to get rid of this. It drives me insane.
Add in I think I could raise a kid like the best god damn parent to ever raise a child because of my narcissism. Knowing that I could have a chance to use my analytical and psychologically deep understanding to help try to forge a future strong human being and leader into society, makes me cringe thinking about my future of obtaining a woman worthy of crafting this child with because of my social avoidance due to my narcissism.
Moving on, I align with half of the research on narcissism, having not many friends, relationships not lasting long or feeling meaningful. etc. Thats why I'm here. I feel hopeless. I've diagnosed who I am, and I don't know how to fix it. When reading multiple posts, I connect with all of the self-image points, but I do not lie, deny fault in my actions, or push blame to others. I regularly use those things to put myself down to build myself up, increasing my pride and ego. I keep learning more about myself as I notice more habits every year I'm alive. But at 22 years old I really want to have shit figured out by 30. Every year feels like another year lost in the wind.
I'm sure no one actually read this but it at least felt good to type it out.
You wouldn't have written this if you were so self-conscious
You want to portray yourself as "so unlike all those OTHER narcissists." Pretty impressive, huh? Being the best, the most distinctive, even among narcissists.
Thank you for having the
Thank you for having the courage to share that. I believe you can do it.
This post comes across as
This post comes across as extremely narcissistic. I guess all of those are great accomplishments, and I won't disparage them. However, we're all good at something. You will never be the BEST at everything...probably not even one thing. That's ok. But the most important question is - do you have a good heart? Are you sensitive, caring, empathetic, and kind? Do you spread love rather than pain and negativity? My IQ is 138, but put me in the company of kind idiots rather than cruel geniuses any day.
Perfect timing!
I am eager for your next post. I just realized that my boyfriend exhibits several traits of narcissistic personality disorder, and I'm trying to find tools to improve our relationship. Most of the time he is very loving (leaving aside his ego-centrism and the fact that he has a tendency to let his mind wander when I speak), but if we debate or if I express emotional pain he will be insensitive and belittle me. When I tell him not to do that, that it offends me, he just gets more condescending and insulting. I've tried expressing to him dispassionately how disrespected I feel, but he always disregards my feelings, tells me I attacked him by criticizing his communication style, and takes a superior tone, telling me that he insults me to help me see my limitations. He does not think he is ever wrong, so he feels his hurting others is always justified, and he thinks being disrespectful in disagreements is tantamount to being dominated by the other person. Please help!
Please don't have babies...
Please... Get your tubes tied and don't have babies with your narcissistic boyfriend. You are not listening to the women that have found out the hard way that the guy is never going to change. There are plenty of decent men out there that would be happy to have you. They may be heavy-set and not quite as good looking as your boyfriend, but I promise you, they will take care of you much better over the long run. Love is not enough to live on.
I think you're projecting your own issues
Your advice is horrible and helps no one. You would do well to remember that it is better to not police what someone should do with their bodies when what they need is encouragement to be more critical and more diligent in researching the illness. Clearly they're trying to come to terms with what is going on. It's also sometimes difficult to come to that point because either they only exhibit a few of the symptoms (the dsm-iv has its criteria after all) or the person doesn't seem to have the childhood or circumstance to explain how this could have developed. (Though I suppose it would require further research if for instance there can be other illnesses involved). So it's not only recognizing the patterns in the other person but the patterns within ourselves that make us a target, or how can I say, something that makes us seek out this kind of person.
As dismal as the diagnosis is, there is nothing wrong with hope provided that self-protection is always a priority. (I'm talking generally rather than in a romantic situation which I don't think it's possible to love a person to change--I'm going to guess that a person on a spectrum may possibly change but a person with full blown NPD will likely never change).
Don't have babies!!!
Actially, not having children is the most profound, and useful advice for anyone suffering from a personality disorder. Please! For the love of all that is right and good in the world, having a kid isn't going to make your fucked up life better, it's only going to foist your problems on an innocent human being. Not having children is the BEST advice for a narcasist.
It's not "their body" it's subjecting a child to abuse.
It's not just their body if they are bringing an innocent human into the mix. Don't for one second think that a decision like having a kid is a right if a parent is not willing to admit that they could wait for a better situation.
Simply put, no they don't really have a right to subject another human being to something they realize is clearly a problem that needs resolving.
Spot on with your
Spot on with your observations from your experience. Why would ANYONE want to waste their time on a "Dark Triangle" candidate, especially if damage was inflicted to them by a narcissist parent from birth? Does anyone writing, here, including the author, really believe they can change a hardwired narcissist? If so, they, themselves, need therapy.
Hardwired
God can heal anything so it is possible to be healed. With a person who loves you enough to endure the abuse inflicted on themselves and stay pschologically sound is definitely the work of God and a selfless act and sacrifice. It can be done but don't fool yourself to think it can be done through your own actions and understanding of psychology. Narcissist are like a virus changing to the environment they themselves don't even know what they're doing.
Reply to Jacob
Jacob. Thank you for your connents. I believe NPDs know what they're doing because they are able to use your weaknesses against you to get the. reaction they need. I tend to think, for most of them, they dont want to change or better their lives because it means facing the truth and hurts they've shoved away, and that's a scary thing. I think more research needs to be done to see if there is some hope for NPDs before we write them all off as being lost forever. I think the real test will be how long the "improved" person will behave in more positive, healthy ways so as to maintain a better life for him/herself and everyone around them.
Please read the followup article.
Promise: you'll find it clarifies
...WHAT "follow up article"?
...WHAT "follow up article"? The link that says "Continue to part 2" or "...in my next post, here [link to post]" is completely missing.
Read to the bottom
Response to the article. 7 strategies....
Hope it helps!
I agree with the other person
I agree with the other person who replied to you.
This post is more suited to help people who realize they fall on the narcissistic spectrum than it is to help people who love narcissists. Severe narcissists are NOT likely to change unless they have a narcissistic injury. I mean something life changing that hurts them so bad they have no choice but to examine themselves.
I'll give you some advice though. Don't try to reason with him with kindness and explaining that he hurts you. This will just make him view you with contempt. It's like trying to convert an atheist. Be cold to him (not sulky) and kind of have an "I'll talk to you later when you're being more reasonable" attitude.
But seriously, I suggest looking at yourself and asking why you accept this kind of behavior from a partner.
About narcissism
It is very interesting that the previous commenter equates trying to reason with a narcissist is like trying to convince an atheist that there is a God.
Narcissists think they have it all figured out. They are judge, jury and adjudicator.
Interestingly, the most serious and life threatening diseases have "softened" the views of one or two of this type I have known, and only more firmly resolved the "brick wall" of others.
Atheist or not, this type is not accountable to any God from what I have seen. They are God. A heavy burden to carry. Their job is to be constantly on the lookout for anyone who would possible enter their armored fortress. And any tool to achieve this end will do.
Tread lightly with this type.
See them for what they are - a person who may not view the world like you no matter how kind and reasonable a person you are. I would never take these narcissists too seriously. They do not have a healthy way of relating. Often like talking to a brick wall. Give yourself a break and take it with a huge grain of salt. And keep a safe distance. Just like a mean drunk, certain personality styles are impossible to reason with.
I do believe it is possible for some of this type to change over a long period of time or after a serious life altering event. Or maybe they will become aware of their folly in some other fashion. Until then, don't throw yourself into the path of a moving train. You will get hurt.
Your definition of "Narcissistic Injury" is not correct.
"Severe narcissists are NOT likely to change unless they have a narcissistic injury."
No, narcissistic injury is the cause of narcissism. It's the psychic injury or "wound" which causes the narcissist to behave the way he does.
The type of injury you're referring to is often known as a "grandiosity gap" where the narcissist can no longer convince himself of his own facade. It's when the weight of reality finally collapses his facade, his house of cards.
A Reply
Maybe go to couple therapy with a therapist trained to help narcists. I think he may have been offended by you trying to express your feelings because he loves you and doesn't think that he can possibly hurt you, or doesn't want to admit that he hurt you. I think that your husband is god complex and thinks he is incapable of wrong doing, or he knows he did somethings wrong but is to afraid to admit it. You have shown that you won't reject him, so I think it may be the first. Anyways I hope you can find that healthy relationship with him.
PS It makes me really happy that you care for him so much that you try to help him.
Perfect Timing! I second that...
Like the reader above, I, too, am dealing with a boyfriend who presents as having NPD. I've known him most of my life, so this realization seems particularly devastating to me because it is not who he used to be, but who he evolved to be. I am deeply in love with him and there are moments when he does allow himself to be completely vulnerable with me; sadly, he will deny it later. And, while the behavior described by the reader above is similar to the behavior I've experienced from him, I see that, later, he definitely knows he was wrong. While he has only ever apologized verbally twice in our 4 years together, he has shown me his feelings of remorse each of the other times, trying to "make it up" to me. A few years ago he allowed himself to be completely vulnerable with me and he retreated for months. Most recently, we had one of those deeply vulnerable moments together and this time it brought out an overreaction to a perceived slight a week later that was quite difficult for me.
Honestly, if I had never met him when we were teenagers, I'd run from him now; but, I know who he is and I've seen that person inside him. Standing by him, however, is an incredibly difficult balancing act between being appropriately supportive and enabling. It is so easy to accidentally cross the line into the role of enabler.
Understandably, his narcissism holds him back from accomplishing all that he wants in life. He nurtured our relationship and I willingly allowed myself to fall in love with him, yet, as you wrote, his behavior could manifest as a self-fulfilling prophecy. I am strong and I am committed; I'll stick by him for as long as I can to show him that I am truly his safe place...but as much as I love him, I do love myself and I fear that there will come a point in time when I have to give up so that I don't lose or destroy myself. Knowing that is a horrible reality and something against which I fight with a passion; it will mean he retreats further into this hole he's dug for himself and that is unbearably sad to contemplate. He is not always completely unresponsive...that is what gives me hope. And, of course, as is often the case, there are outside complications that create some obstacles.
To the reader who posted above me on 22 Sept 13 at 6:47pm: you asked for help. The best advice I can give YOU is for you to seek out counseling on how to deal with him. That is the first step. Getting him into counseling is a Herculean task that may never happen. You can't really change his behavior; but you can change your own, you can change how you can react to his, and you can get help understanding NPD and skills for dealing with it. That is what I would encourage you to do and to do it now. Good luck.
No, sorry
About this comment:
>this realization seems particularly devastating to me because it is not who he used to be, but who he evolved to be.
I'm sorry, but he didn't evolve to be a narcissist. He has always been a narcissist, and what you saw before was a mask that he let slip over time. That was the idealization phase; you are now in the devaluation phase of your relationship with a narcissist.
No, sorry Dale. This is
No, sorry Dale. This is nurture and nature. The western world we live in has created this narcissistic epidemic because wounded Children were never provided with the adequate and appropriate care and support they needed. The mask was not always there. These societies of rewarding entitlement and materialism and almost zero unaccountability has grown narcissistic traits. You may want to learn about Dr Bruce Lipton who has proved we are 'products' of our environment.
:(
I have about the same story we met as teenagers when I had no idea what narcissism was .my life has been a roller coaster of emotional stress and verbal abuse.im angry with myself that I'm to weak to get out.
There IS hope for change
Recently, I've been doing a LOT of research on NPD as a result of falling in love with one and realizing that he has all the traits of who I *used* to be. I am floored that I too once suffered with the traits of NPD and probably still do, on subtle levels.. even going so far as to identify with some of the traits of sociopathy. I have had to LEARN to give others credit instead of devaluing them, to learn how to hold and enjoy eye contact, to grapple with sex addiction, to be comfortable with vulnerability and understand that it's a GOOD thing. Even learned empathy over the course of a couple of years. I think having people around who value us and who we want to emulate are totally key... So please, if you're reading this, understand that if you are with a narcissist, you have to be someone secure that they can look up to, want to follow and believe you'll be there for them. If we distance ourselves, reach out. If we get angry at you, hug us back. If we pump ourselves up, it's ok to regulate us by giving us more truthful feedback that solidifies a healthier sense of self-esteem. Thank you for being there, Dr Craig!
Anonymous
Thank you for your comment which has given me hope.I have always known that there was something wrong with me but funny enough it has been family, loved ones and society who have held me back from help.Whenever I have tried to talk about my issues I have always been rebuffed and rejected.It seems that nobody wants to hear a sad story.Cheer up seems to be what people want.I am a victim of a narcissistic mother and a highly dysfunctional family but unfortunately for me I am the only one not in denial out of 6 siblings.
I do believe now after years of being in and out of therapy that I too,am Narcissistic but still no one wants to know.Psychologists tell me I am fine.Friends and family as well as colleagues the same.I am loved but I simply do not feel loved.I have a highly functional False Self which I am trying to overcome so that I can live an authentic life.Not all narcissists are monsters.We need to be loved and understood and supported .Arguing with me that there is nothing wrong with me yet another form ELKCYof rejection.
all about me
I don't know if I'm a narcissistic but I do have some of those traits. I'm not comfortable with vulnerability at all. It makes me angry. I don't like it when people show me their vulnerabilities. It makes me very uncomfortable. I don't have any close relationships. Relationships drain me. They physically and mentally drain me. Relationships intrigue me. I don't understand how people tolerate each other the way they do. I've had to teach myself to tolerate a conversation that is not about me. I have to tell myself to be quiet and listen and pretend that I care. I don't have childhood friends that I keep up with. I don't hang out with others. I never understood the need to be around other people when I didn't have too. I don't want to form complex relationships. I form relationships out of necessity and keep those to a minimum. Relationships overwhelm me. I realized I was different when I was in high school. If you liked me great, if you didn't so what. I hung out with one group and when they bored me I hung out with someone else. I figured out as a child that relationships hurt. The less emotions you showed the better off you were. I wasn't sexually abused. Physically at times, emotionally most of the time. Some people cannot cope with those emotions that make you feel naked and vulnerable. How many times can you let someone break your heart. So you build walls up around yourself. You cope the best way you can. When you're not given the tools to deal with stressful situations you develop your own. You change or you become nothing. You survive. You fight back or you become a door mat. You realize that weakness will get you nowhere. You learn how to smell that weakness in others and you use it. You use them before they use you. You could've called me a bully from the 3rd grade through the 7th. After that I got smart and became manipulative. To this day I am very manipulative. I have to stop myself and tell myself, "No, don't do this to this person." No, don't use their weaknesses against them. I've realized that it is o.k. to be vulnerable. Now I need to realized that it is o.k. for me to show it. I'm afraid. STOMP STOMP STOMP. Someone else's foot coming down on my weakness. It never fails. I will first work on accepting others. I find myself recently separated. I find myself alone. I find myself wondering if I can change? I never really understood how my husband could have loved me as much as he says he did. I don't understand it. I don't understand how he could love someone like me. Could he not see the real me? How could he love such a person?
Wow..!
I read your post and was absolutely floored by your truthfulness and self-awareness, Anonymous. Owning up to and admitting one's stuff takes a lot of guts. I feel your pain reading it. And I can totally empathize with the being vulnerable part. It's like you think if you tell someone what you did or what you really think - that they'll think you're a horrible or weak person and either lash out at you for it or turn it against you to humiliate you or betray you. Or worse, turn away and want nothing to do with you. Horrible! Nobody wants that!
The movie 8Mile is a perfect illustration. It's about a rap battle that has two guys face off and use each other's weaknesses against each other in rhyme. The most insulting one wins. Eminem pukes his guts out at the beginning knowing that he's going to be verbally shamed on stage in public for being a loser. But by the end of the movie, he can name and rap out everything about his life that he's found extremely humiliating throughout the movie - and his opponent is speechless... he can't add to what's already been said. This is how the battle is won. Being vulnerable can at first feel like stomach wrenching.. but eventually, once owned, feels like victory.
But in taking first steps, most likely you still have a trusted relationship if you are only separated... You said this man said he loves you but that you don't understand how. He probably sees the real you that even you have a hard time seeing.
Buddha taught that humans are like a glass of water. Pure, sparkling, and crystal clean. But bad expeiences, memories, paranoid thoughts and unhelpful beliefs can come along and make the water look dirty. This is an illusion.
Water can always be filtered and become pure again. And like water, we too can always release what isn't working and "come clean" again. We are human beings, not human doings..so nothing we do or have ever done can define us.
He probably sees beyond your "Doing" and into your real "Being".
Just my thoughts...
Us and them; are Narcissists are victims too?
I worry that so many of us so readily adopt the role of victim, and place the narcissist as the abuser; I think that's too simplistic, and far too easy! I think narcissists are tragic, even victims themselves.
Those of us that are strong and brave enough to end relationships with Narcissists, have an opportunity to move on and build future loving relationships with other 'mature' people.
If you've given it your best shot, and the pattern persists, leave the Narcissist, but not like an escaping wounded animal!, a forever victim, fearing the next narcissist appearing in our lives. Leave, but leave with love ... it's the only way to be forever free!
Thanks for your profound insight
Middletonmark2014,
I made my post on the 18th with intent to come back and respond to yours, because I think it's loaded with wisdom...perhaps even book-worthy. My delay in responding is linked directly to being emotionally overwhelmed and tired, but your thoughts have stayed with me since. Your post was (and is) meaningful to me because I had just turned a corner from seeing myself as a victim, and I knew exactly what you meant. I agree, narcissists are victims...to a point...and now that I truly understand the condition, I am forgiving and compassionate.
When we enter into an "us and them" mindset, someone gets kicked to the curb. I'll take my thoughts on from a first person stance, appropriately: If a situation demands parting ways, then as you said, it should be with love. Otherwise, what has my narcissist husband achieved but turning me into a narcissist who devalues and degrades him? If I leave out of a need to protect myself, doing so with grace involves understanding that my narcissist husband is really only protecting himself they way he knows how, which is can be rough, to be sure. Clearly, this reveals that self-protection can also be self-destructive, and destructive to anyone within reach. So if I leaving to self-protect, the ultimate act of self-protection is to look within myself to identify and determine how and why I ended up with the narcissist in the first place. I was not forced and therefore, I am not a victim. I am a subject. With that understanding, I can leave with grace and love.
You use the word pattern, and patterns take two...or more. Since identifying the pattern and my part in it, I am able to change my part of the patter. And as I do, I do so with faith, hope, and love.
Thanks for your thought-provoking contribution!
Enlightened
I pray a lot, and I think that is what brought me to this awakening and these readings. I am a strong, independent woman that found myself head over heals for this man over 15 years ago. I believed then as I do now that I met my match. But we have never been without problems, and I...not him...have done years of research trying to find ways to "grow" us out of our dysfunctions, but I could never quite put my finger on it. How I missed this, how our therapists of two years missed this, is beyond me, but now I really know what I am dealing with and that alone brings both peace and hope.
I discovered all this by looking at myself. Rather than focusing on what is wrong with him, I finally put the light on me; what in the hell drew me to him? That search brought up the codependent-narcissistic relationship. Some sources say you can't have one without the other. I am quite familiar with codependency; I do have some of the traits, and knowing that, I monitor myself, and I I can see them coming a mile away at which point I say, "Oh, hell no." This is a good thing because I have never put up with my husbands's false ego and its aggressive tantrums. Consequently, he has changed and he has grown. Does it reoccur. You bet, which is why I found myself this week giving serious consideration to leaving. But we have a rich history together; yes, we have our dysfunctions, but we are also highly functional much of the time, and...I love him. So I have to exhaust all of my options before I say it's time to let it go. Having four kids together certainly adds weight to such a decision.
I understand enough about this, I think, to acknowledge that some situations are unbearable, and the only thinkable solution is to leave. Others, like mine, are just a huge pain the @$$ that become exhausting. But like Dr. Malkin, I know people can change because I have done it myself. My husband has done it, too, even without having a name for the condition. I just need him to do it some more so we can spend more of our time being healthy. And I have to explore Dr. Malkin's points fully to see if it is possible. But like one of the posts said, that's really up to my husband and how he wants to respond. I am thankful to Dr. Malkin, and I look forward to his next article. So many thanks!
Enlightened
Enlightened,
I write to say that I think your message is full of Love, and hope and patience, you are a light to the world. I believe that is where faith and prayer takes us.
Peace be with You.
Follow Up Post
I'm looking for a link to the article where Dr. Malkin discusses steps you can take to help you decide whether or not the person you’re with is capable of seeing themselves.
Thanks!
Very interesting blog
Very interesting blog, thanks for sharing.
all about me
So do I know I'm broken if I'm a Narcissist? Can 2 Narcissist be together for 20 years? I've been doing a lot of research and self analysis since I separated from my husband. I miss him. I'm confused. A coworker asked me if I wanted to spend a day with our children at a festival in a few weeks. I had another coworker ask me if I wanted to go out with her and her husband. I look at both situations as difficult tasks. Yes to me they are situations. I realize I'm charming and I also know i'm full of it. I think it's funny they way I've always been able to manipulate men. I'm 45. I really don't think I'm all that but if they think I am so be it. I'll use it to my advantage. I get enjoyment out of making other women squirm. Of course only the ones that I find threatening. Why is it that men are so easily manipulated? I actually enjoy it. I will tell my coworkers "watch this" and proceed to toy with a male. Young or old they're all manipulated. So what am I? I usually get my way. I'm trying to change I realize what I'm doing. This is safer. As long as I am in control. I made a comment to a male coworker the other day. "I don't know why they even try. I will get my way. They know it and I know it. I always win." I know what is coming out of my mouth. I can't stop it. It's not all bad. They are aware of my talents. When there is a "situation. " I'm the one they run to for damage control. Often times I get a quick," here, this is what happened" go fix it. So I go and I smile and make whoever needs to be "fixed" feel important. Everybody happy. Of course then they have to put up with the princess. That would be me. I'm working on it. I know I talk at people most of the time. What am I? I know this is not normal. What will I be when my looks are gone? I'm not model material. People are just drawn to me. I don't get it.
I'm curious what you do for a
I'm curious what you do for a living
all about me
all about me,
You are on the right road. You're searching. Persist and you will start to heal yourself.
You've taken the most important step. You've started asking, and questioning yourself.
Do you have the desire to change? ask yourself why you want to change? ask yourself how strong your desire to change is?
If you start and commit to the journey - you'll need courage, and faith, and patience.
If you persist, you will end up where you belong, on the road home.
And it's a wonderful place. No more roller coaster, no more using (and hurting) others to make yourself look and feel loved (and loveable), no more chasing feelings - of security, power and peace.
When you're on the way home, you'll taste REAL peace, REAL purpose, REAL Love.
Keep going.
Narcissistic traits?
I just don't think I'm a full blown narcissist. I haven't destroyed the people around me. Not according to my husband. My family loves me. I'm thinking that maybe I have some traits. I really don't think a true narcissist would be asking themselves the questions I'm asking myself. Yes I'm insecure. Yes, I'm manipulative. I've finally come clean about all the things that happened in my marriage. I had a long talk with one of my sisters. I told her things that had happened in my marriage. Admitting it to her was my way of finally admitting it to myself. I always explained these odd situations to myself. I justified away. I asked my oldest son for forgiveness for not knowing or ignoring what was going on in our home. He said that there was nothing to forgive. He loved me and that I did the best that I could. He said I worked all the time and I didn't see what was going on. I told the truth and told him I worked all the time because I didn't want to be home with my husband. I admitted it to him and to myself. There is a lot my son has not told me. I can look into his eyes and see the turmoil. What have I done? In my selfishness I have allowed the suffering of my children. My oldest son is my husbands stepson. I of course was still trying to hang on to a thread. My oldest son told me when his little brother was born his life changed. He snapped his fingers and said; "Just like that." He said my husband would yell at the baby at the top of his lungs. He would yell at him and scare him. He told me that he walked in on my husband with his hands around my younger sons neck while he was yelling at him to be quiet. He said, "I told him to let my little brother go. I took my brother into my room." I asked my son why he didn't tell me. He said, "Mom it's like this. He would have convinced you that it didn't happen. That I was a liar. Then I would have had to deal with him and he wasn't nice." This is just one tiny bit of my screwed up life. Whether I'm a narcissist or not it doesn't matter. Knowing my husband is a narcissist puts a label on his behavior. Admitting I can't fix him only took me 20 years. My family hung in there. My sisters said that they knew what he would try to do. He almost broke that bond. He didn't succeed. When I was regurgitating the last twenty years to my sis she said that she knew thinks were bad but she didn't know that things were that bad. I told her that admitting things to her was like admitting it to myself and somehow I couldn't do that. How could I justify all the crap? So I told him to get out in January after he he put his hand around my neck sat me down and slapped me. The slap that knocked some sense into me. This man had not worked in 3 years. According to him he couldn't work and finish college. He only has 3 more months to finish. So I'm taking care of his sorry aXX. I've figured him out. No, I figured him out a while back. My 14 year old came out of his room and told him the get the f... away from his mom and get the f... out of the house. So my son was the one that kicked him out. Even after all that the looser says, "Can I just stay until I finish school. Then I'll leave and you'll never see me again." CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT ONE!!!!! That was him always pushing boundaries to see what he could get away with. It's time to let the mess go. If it wasn't fixed before, it won't get fixed now. I can't help him. I tried for 20 years. I've learned about personal boundaries. I've learned how to say no. I see it now. I notice when someone tries to cross my personal boundaries. Instead of reacting aggressively towards this transgression I see it for what it is and I deal with it in a constructive way. Not all the time but it's a start.
Very good, will continue to
Very good, will continue to focus on.
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