I am in a relationship with a beautiful intelligent woman that continues to actively stare down men who are strangers to her. She engages in this habit openly and without shame any where we are. It is at the very least - embarrassing. I've brought it to her attention many times and she discounts my comments by telling me I am imagining it or she was looking at the wall, or the painting or the ........
I didn't realize this was a form of gaslighting. It is almost solely responsible for a breakdown in our relationship. I stopped being interested in taking her out because of this nasty habit and am about to end the relationship.
What in the world drives someone to blatantly do this knowing it can end an otherwise good relationship?!
Your discomfort is certainly understandable. No one wants to be out on a date with someone who openly stares at others. I wouldn't want my husband to stare at other women while he is with me.
However, you seem to be jumping to conclusions. Is it her behavior that makes you uncomfortable? Or could it be that you are insecure?
Sometimes we project our feelings of insecurity onto other people without realizing it. It sounds like there is a lack of trust and effective communication.
My husband has accused me of staring at other men in his presence when in reality, I was not. My mind tends to wander and it might seem that I'm not completely focused on the person I'm with, but that isn't true. I might be deep in thought or looking at a clock or something.
Maybe this is what happens with her. I doubt that she is flirting with anyone, or intentionally being disrespectful.
I also tend to be a "people watcher". I like to observe the sights and sounds of my environment because it is all very interesting. It's not because I'm bored with my husband...I simply happen to be interested in the world around me.
It is very hurtful to be accused of staring at other men and flirting. Please be aware of that. She might not be doing that at all. With all due respect, it seems as if your insecurities are the problem here...not her actual behavior.
If she is otherwise attentive and loving toward you, then you have no reason to believe that she is flirting with other men. You cannot control her behavior. You can only control your reaction. If you perceive her behavior as inappropriate, then tell her that in a calm, non-accusatory way.
There will always be other men out there...this is a fact. But she is with YOU and it is because she wants to be. Don't allow your issues to ruin a good relationship.
You describe her as beautiful and intelligent. Then you accuse her of "gaslighting" and say that you want to end the relationship because she makes eye contact with other people. Ask yourself: is this fair? Is this real or is it your perception? Has she done anything to make you not trust her?
Simply making innocent eye contact with others doesn't count. Look within. Face your insecurities. Don't blame her for the breakdown in your relationship. You deserve to feel respected and loved, but so does she.
Best of luck!
Talk about jumping to conclusions Mindy. Sheesh...
Dr.Stern, if you're writing about manipulative, controlling, selfish people, why not call them that and dispense with terminology like "gaslighting" which has no clear definition. Doesn't this type of terminology create a false image of pathology and even imply malice when that may not be the case?
I'm a southern gentlemen and would never leave my date alone at a bus stop (referring to your case study on Rhonda), but having lived in NYC and Chicago, I know people that would do as Dean did. He wanted to escort her home by subway, she insisted on bus, and so they went their separate ways.
Is this "no big deal", or a sign of incompatibility, or a sign of pathology? How do we tell the difference? Isn't this is what we need to know?
I question the idea of making such a determination based on whether we "feel hopeless and joyless" or "have trouble making simple decisions". Might we feel these things because we have issues (e.g., depression) or unrealistic expectations (e.g., emotional immaturity)? Surely there are better indicators than this.
It seems to me that we need to be teaching each other to get in touch with our personal values and seek compatibility with them - and to learn the major signs of emotional health and maturity and the lack thereof.
Just something to ponder along with all the thoughtful material posted on this blog.
Thanks for providing this venue for discussion.
I totally agree with the above"Submitted by BPDFamily.com on May 3, 2013 - 8:11am." It is very logical,intelligent,and makes sense to me.
My X did it constantly , a bold strong stare that was embarrassing to me and sometimes the women he was directing it to. He told me I was crazy for 10 years, we live in a small town, and guess what? This "strong stare" was something I overheard him telling a friend was "first contact". So everyone is not paranoid Mindy...because living in a small town his dumbness didn't realize I knew some of those women...and they commented on it to me later...
I love the irony! Mindy is the gaslighter here LOL
You just gaslighted this guy you crazy fool.
1. With no evidence to the contrary that his woman is rude (and she MAY not be) you first hit him for being insecure.
2. Second (not exactly gaslighting) you claim 'sometimes my mind wanders and my husband thinks I'm not with him, but I am! I'm preoccupied etc.' .OK, so your not with him.
3. You throw this victimmy guilt trip on the writer, saying 'oh it's very hurtful to be ("accused" as you put it) of looking at other men.
Miraculously illogical writing. The sentence structure is good, but the emotional intelligence is tht of a 3 year old.
Thank God you weren't my mother. You are a narcissistic hellpit and totally unaware of yourself, much less anyone else. This is the stupidest answer I've ever read, starting with your canned first couple sentences that condescendingly fake empathy for the guy.
Gaslighting is basically telling another person that their reality is invalid. Do you now see what a crazy manipulative gaslighter you are? SURE it's possible the other woman is staring at a wall, and not another guys butt, however before I suggest that, I'm going to give this guy the benefit of the doubt that he followed her eyes and between her eyes and the wall was a butt blocking her view, and that she wasn't impatiently wishing the butt would get out of the way so she could look at the wall, you dope.
Get off the internet you dysfunctional functional-wanna-be. And take note that I provided you 3 quick examples off the top of my head as to why this is idiotic. I'm being honest, I supplied you with factual examples of my criticism. And frankly - I feel for those under your care if you are a counselor of some version. One nice thing: You taught your audience what gaslighting is through your own example of it. GASLIGHTING IS DENYING ANOTHER'S REALITY usually to defend your own despicable behavior, or to control. "Oh you're just being sensitive, insecuuuuuuure, oh please don't even suggest that I would ever look at another man ... it's so paaaaiiiiinful to me that you accuse me." ... that's what you sound like. Transparent. Barf.
I completely agree.
Perfect answer. I totally agree
So well said, I want to just punch her!
You just did to this person what you are telling him he's done. You projected YOUR OWN experience onto him, based on things your husband has accused you of, and then told him he is doing the same thing.
You are gaslighting him and then having the gaul to present yourself as someone who is trying to help people not be gaslighted.
Look in the mirror.
Yes, I agree. Comments seem to loose impact when the accusations have the same intensity.
We all have our wounds, we don't need to look any further than ourselves to start.
It takes lots of healing to keep the difficult things in perspective.
Well Mindy you just threw this guy under the bus by putting absolutely everything wrong in the relationship on him, when he is simply asking for a little advice.
'I also tend to be a "people watcher"'
People watchers CAN be some of the most manipulative people around.
'You describe her as beautiful and intelligent. Then you accuse her of "gaslighting" and say that you want to end the relationship because she makes eye contact with other people. Ask yourself: is this fair? Is this real or is it your perception? Has she done anything to make you not trust her?'
You seem overly focused on the man's feelings and point of view here instead of looking at the overall situation, almost to the point of dismissing said feelings or discreetly invalidating those feelings.
This comment page is 2 years old so I won't continue commenting on this much further. Mindy you make yourself out to be someone who has a fine sense of everything that is going wrong around them but you really seem like someone who disguises themselves and organizes others.
I thought we still had rights, oh wait, I forgot, we are now "the melting pot." I wonder if that stands for laboratory in some sick man's mind?
What in the world does 'gaslighting' have to do with constitutional rights and our country being a melting pot? I realize this comment is almost two years old, but I just HAD to say something. Ms. Understood, you do realize what gaslighting is, right? It has to o with emotional manipulation between two people, nothing to do with the government or laws. This is merely a psychological issue that causes relationship problems.
Most men cannot tolerate their wife looking at other men in front of them because they don't feel loved and they feel inadequate. They take it harder when their wife looks at other men, especially on TV and movie screens or even Playgirl, Cosmopolitan, or anything that features, scantily-clad men. Just look at the Magic Mike movie for example or that recent Calvin Klein men's underwear TV ad, most men would dare forbid their wife to ogle and lust after fit, attractive men like that. Men are very territorial over their wives looking at other men in front of them.
First of all, no woman is a man's property or possession to control and "forbid" them to do what they want. Second of all, if a man is so paranoid that they are insecure enough to feel threatened by Magic Mike or underwear ads, they need to examine the root cause of their insecurity. Even in the most healthy relationships, BOTH partners may look at other attractive people..they are human still, however, that is where it stops. Mutual trust and understanding are the core values of a successful relationship...NOT needing constant reassurance by your partner that undermines the quality of the relationship.
Exactly. I totally agree with everything you wrote. You do not become someone else's possession when you get married. Also marriage does not equal death or blindness. Of course both of the couple still notice other attractive people! And any person that is married and claims to not look at other people whom they find attractive is either kidding themselves or not telling the truth.
If he is truly being gaslighted, this is the most damaging piece of advice you can give someone. It would make him doubt his perception of reality even more. My advice to the poster above is don't doubt yourself, and you are doing the right thing. Take it from someone who has had 3 nervous breakdowns from being gaslighted, you best to end it know then live through the ten years of hell like I did.
Everything you say may be completely true . . . but just consider this, it is just possible, it could actually happen, that everything the guy said was so actually is! It does happen, you know.
Suggesting this poor guy is 'insecure' or 'projecting his feeling onto her behaviour' is probably exactly what this guy has been going through in his perceived gaslighting!
Having one's perceptions and feelings invalidated by others is a really damaging experience that leaves you with no sense of reality... I don't think you had enough information to tell him he's imagining things! It was totally helpful to give him a perspective on what his girlfriend is feeling, but the man perceives a problem and I think it's important that his perceptions are treated as real until proven otherwise.
I've been gaslighted and invalidated my whole life (told that I'm being too sensitive or selfish when I'm actually asserting myself to a reasonable degree) and it's a maddening, anxiety inducing curse!
He said she's "staring them down" can it get any clearer to you? He's not doubting his reality Mindy and your comment
"Simply making innocent eye contact with others doesn't count"
Says who? You? Maybe not in your world but I wouldn't want my guy doing that with every attractive woman who passes by.
It is not his "issue" either. He's allowed to feel uncomfortable about it, it's unnecessary to have to "make eye contact" with the opposite sex, it's a form of flirting, communicating, acknowledging...why do this with perfect strangers? Who's more important? Stop blaming the victim in this for the women's bad behavior.
I think it's important to define what your speaking of in terms of "staring down" men. Is she doing this in a defiant angry sort of way or is it the flirting type of staring down. Sounds like you have issues no matter which. If your gut says its wrong, listen. You and only you gets to decide what you allow in your life so live that.
i going thru a really difficult time in my marriage right now. Everyday feels like a part of me is cipping off bit by bit. Frequently i feel like i dont know myself anymore...and cant seem to control any situation in my life anymore. i dont know whether i'm being gas lighted, or im the one who is going crazy in this relationship, or whether im in some other form of abusive relationship ..when i get a chance, i try to blog my worries online just to get things off my chest as i have really no one else to turn to or talk to. .. my blog http://cashwilliams84.blog.com/ i dont really know what to do with myself
I can only speak of my own experience. What is his reaction to you when you make a point, question him on his behaviour, or try to stand up for yourself? Does he lie, deny, omit the truth? Does he tell you you're imagining it, or you are being overly sensitive? Do you no longer feel you have the strength to make a stand? Is there a time in your life, looking back, when you feel you've lost your feet and Reality isn't what you thought it was and it all stems from interactions with your partner? Do you wonder how someone who was a strong as you were can be brought to your knees, without you even knowing how it happened?
Of course not all situations are like mine, but if your experience is something like this then you have been gaslighted.
could a parent do this to a child? because this is what i am getting from my mother. please help.
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Robin Stern is a licensed psychoanalyst in private practice and the author of The Gaslight Effect: How to Spot and Survive the Hidden Manipulation Others Use to Control Your Life.
It can take a radical reboot to get past old hurts and injustices.