What Freud Didn't Know

Emotional well-being through neuroscience and psychology.

Normal Brains Create Most of Our Psychological Problems

Evolution did its job to safeguard us, now we have to deal with the result: psychological problems. Read More

Pain of rejection

Thanks for the interesting post. While it makes perfect sense to
me that dangerous event creating high anxiety are beneficial to survival, (or could have been such at older times), I can't understand
how wiring social rejections to great pain are of any
help through evolution - won't they just make an individual
more isolated and less likely to survive ?

A very good question. For a

A very good question. For a species such as humans who have depended upon very sophisticated cooperative structures to establish an evolutionary advantage, maintaining the integrity of the group is of paramount importance. Sometimes evolution builds in defenses that, while they work, they also can be self-destructive; like car brakes that,under certain circumstances if one applies them too vigorously cause loss of control over a vehicle; or in the case of evolution, our ability to fight to protect ourselves and others offers survival advantages but such an ability too easily translates into inter-group destruction that serves the species poorly. Evolution might have done too good a job in building in very painful mechanisms (notably, the hurt of rejection) to promote group cohesion, causing it to backfire for some individuals as you suggest.
It is also important to note that most amygdala scripts (emotion memories)are only activated causing disruptiions and distortions in our behavior at certain times. So that someone who is made very uncomfortable in a group setting by an amygdla script might do passably well, or even better, in the context of one or two close friends. Even in those cases where this is not true, the person might do well as a parent, or operate quite effectively in a work environment that requires few interpersonal demands. From the standpoint of evolution these abilities could qualify a person, although harmed by a script, to be a survivor.

>>In a hunting and gathering

>>In a hunting and gathering group, a person who is withdrawn and self-critical may be miserable and not attain a place of high status but he or she will likely not represent a threat to anyone and may elicit empathy, securing a place in a hunting and gathering group.

I'm very interested in what you're writing here and will check out your book. But I'm not sure I buy the above statement. People hate being around other people who exhibit these depressed traits; what's more, there's some evidence that depressives can bring down the overall success and morale of a group (http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20126881.600-how-your-friends-frie...). And how would such individuals become reproductively successful enough to make this such a common trait?

Could it be that this trait is linked to other compensating traits? After all, brilliant and successful people are often miserable to be around...

I'm also interested in what scientific evidence there is for these subconscious scripts. Can you write more about the hard science of this?

Reply to anonymous

Your point is very well taken. I am neither an anthropologist nor a sociologist so my speculations are tentative. However, I can say that the issues are indeed more complex than I acknowledged. For example, it is likely that depression sometimes did have only limited survival benefit for a given ancestral individual and in cases where the depression was extreme, it could make that individual more susceptible to problems, while also being deleterious to the group. Instances where social sanctions were over-applied or misapplied to an especially susceptible child could cause such depression. However, those same social sanctions, when appropriately applied, could be expected to create amygdala scripts that serve to promote meta-social benefits such as greater group cohesion and more secure patterns of cooperative behavior. This makes the amygdala script mechanism a likely candidate for a biological mechanisms that although it has evolutionary benefits, in its more extreme manifestations can have disastrous results; high fevers being an obvious example.
Also, if misapplied sanctions created a more moderate amygdala script and a milder form of depression, the result would likely be, as I described in my blog, some unfortunate cost to the individual, also perhaps some benefits to that individual, and potential benefits to the group.
The article that you cited necessarily addresses the “viral” effect of such things as depression based upon what is considered healthy and acceptable per today’s norms. It seems that it is only in the last century or two that we have developed our present-day high expectations for: psychological well-being, a very sophisticated degree of social skillfulness, happy family relationships and the like. We might suspect that an amygdala script that we now deem pathological would have formerly been of little inter-personal concern, or even have been normative and reinforced. Examples of the latter might include aggressive, even violent men; and passive, self-effacing women. Both could be readily diagnosed today; the latter would be considered “depressed” by today’s standards. (I hope that it is clear that I am not advocating a return to those days in which the happiness of the individual was not valued.)
Re the article that you cited, the effects of a depressed person on those around him or her, is likely correlated to the degree of depression that an individual is experiencing. Also, I have had a number of clients, who in the midst of their depression, have been able to “cover it” and effectively interact socially, sometimes being quite entertaining with their wry and dark humor.

Regarding references for amygdala script theory, “What Freud Didn’t Know” has many citations to the original research sources that support it. In fact, one of the appendices is a summary of the neurobiological research that underlies these concepts.

You mean I'm not nuts?! :)

Darn, I was kind of riding on that. ;)

Seriously, thank you for this post. Great info.

I'm looking forward to the coming series on 'mastering such "inappropriate" responses'.

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Tim Stokes has been doing psychotherapy for more than 30 years. He is the clinical director of Corporate Psychological Services and author of What Freud Didn't Know (January 2010).

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