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A popular slogan, often found on buttons and bumper stickers sported by hippies and other liberals, proclaims “Hate is not a family value.” Well, hate may not be a family value, but it is an innate emotion and integral part of universal human nature. Read More


















Rather extreme...
Firstly, a small point: WWII in Europe lasted 6 years, not four.
Secondly, a much bigger point: wow, your political position is rather extreme. You seem to think it would have been a good idea to nuke the Middle East on September 12. Let's put aside the fact that there are plenty of Americans (and other foreigners) living in the area (so American lives would have been lost). Let's also put aside the fact that a good proportion of the world's oil is in the area. And let's also put aside the fact that there are hundreds of millions of Muslims who live outside the Middle East (Indonesia, Pakistan, etc.). The bottom line: slaughtering innocent people is bad and is thoroughly inconsistent with the West's values. Nuking the ME in no way would have counted as a "victory".
Thirdly... are you really suggesting Anne Coulter would make a better president than Senator Clinton? You realize Coulter is crazy, right? You realize she's a creationist, right? You realize she's deeply ignorant, right?
Lastly, there is a much, much better theory of why big countries lose small wars: the lunch/dinner principle. See http://www.jstor.org/view/00438871/di971198/97p00662/0
missing the obvious
what he is saying is just a fact, reality. stop trying to put things like morals and ethics to try to counter his arguement. think and be as objective and systematic as possible here and you would understand.
nuking the ME would have solved MOST of the terrorist problems today. if the people responsible for the attacks are dead and their kin and their family and their offspring, and people who believe and think like them are dead, who would be alive to fight or challenge the nukers then?
oil has been found in canada, russia, africa, and across the ocean.
and what does the fact that there is hundreds of millions of muslims outside the ME have to deal with the "terrorism" problem or the 9-11 attacks or the war of "terror"? i thought that the general idea was that we aren't fighting muslims but "terrorists"? (hopefully you noted my sarcastic and condescending tone)
you said and i quote
"slaughtering innocent people is bad and is thoroughly inconsistent with the West's values."
first define "bad" for me. in the islamic world, there is a clear definition. being bad means being ,doing, or saying something unislamic or insults islam. so, how do you as the westerner define "bad?
secondly, can you please explain to me what exactly is "west's values" cause i guess i am just an ignorant FOB from a 3rd world country, durrrrhhh. (sarcasm again)
if nuking the ME doesn't count as a victory, then please give a definition on how you define victory? please, i would love to hear your definition.
and also, you do realize that through the course of human history, when one side kills everyone on the other side in a battle, they usually considered that a victory? and please, tell me how that is not a victory?
a commment given to you just so that you can come back down to earth and stop living in your fairytale fantasy land.
Nuking the Middle East would
Nuking the Middle East would have been insane, barbaric slaughter. Justice for the victims of 9/11 would not be served by slaughtering millions of women and children, even if thousands of extremists/terrorists were also killed.
Nuking the Middle East would not be a victory, but would be the start of a massively more terrible conflict. Do you really think that Muslims in countries like Indonesia (pop approx 200 million) would be like, "OK, we're not going to mess with America". NO. They would just hate us MORE.
These people are SUICIDE BOMBERS. They don't care about dying as they think they are going to Heaven afterwards. Killing innocent Muslim women and children would just perpetuate the cycle of hatred and killing.
What we need to do is to show Al-Qaeda et al that fighting Western values is simply not worth it. That they can never win and would be better off as our friends. Do we have to kill some terrorists to do this? Yes, of course. But do we have to slaughter millions of innocents with Nuclear weapons? No!
Are you totally retarded or what?
A response
I was rather alarmed by this post, so I've written a response: http://ionian-enchantment.blogspot.com/2008/03/crazy-kanazawa.html
Beyond Ignorant
This post goes beyond ignorance, well into intellectual delusion. This sort of pseudo-educated ranting is what gives evolutionary psychology a bad name and leads thoughtful non-specialists to dismiss what are often reasonable insights gained by EP. Clearly, the capacity for hatred is natural in humans -- as is the capacity for love, boredom and in your case, deep confusion.
boo hoo
so he said that nuking the entire ME was a solution. so you don't like his approach. well boo hoo.
all he was saying was just a clever and rather enlightening insight to the issue. it works.
the thing is that his solution to the problem is extreme. HOWEVER, the fact is that the solution would have gotten the job DONE.
so what if he decided to take a cannon to do a peashooters job? he will get the job done, right?
No it wouldn't get the job
No it wouldn't get the job done! It would trigger revenge on an insanely massive scale! Even more American's would die! There are thousands of Americans living and working in the Middle East right now!!!
This is a joke right, and I just don't understand the context?
Is it a fair summary of your post to say that you think we need to hate our enemies more and a good start would be to nuke the middle east?
you "misunderstand"
i think what he is saying is that our enemy hates us enough that if they the positions were reversed and they had the nuke, they would have already nuked us, we'd all be dead, and they would have popped open champagne and declared victory by now.
i personally think that what he said is true. it does appear that the enemy does hate us enough that they probably wouldn't care even if a sizable number of their own kind were also killed from the nukes they drop.
we right now still hold out for hope that this conflict can be won through words and negotiations and some compromise. maybe it will work, but if history is any indicator (chamberlain and hitler), the chances are looking low.
Terrorism
Although your view is a bit extreme, I do think you make several very valid points that Americans have become too afraid to admitt to. There has been a push in this society, stemming back to the 1960's, wherein "open-mindedness" is equated with higher intelligence. There is truth to this concept, however, it has gone too far, promoting the asinine concept of "cultural reletavism." Using an open mind to constructively observe and form intelligent judgements has been reduced to total lack of judgement. If you aren't making real judgements, then you simply aren't thinking. How intelligent is that? I believe this war has been such a disaster in part because we are no longer allowed to form judgements about the enemy. Obvioulsy these people hate us, but to imply that a culture exixts that promotes dualistic, crazed, obsessive, hate, is somehow "insensitive." I'm not suggesting we arbitrarily bomb huge land masses and I think it is good there is consideration of the innocent lives at risk, however, perhaps a little more condemnation is neccesary. Ultimately, we have to protect our own innocent first and lets face it, we're dealing with irrational groups of people who will not compromise. To insist that they will, that they must, is asserting our own beleifs for diplomacy. Why is that not considered culturally insensitive? Lets call a spade a spade. These people are hateful and as you suggested, maybe we could take on a bit of that hate for our own deciciveness.
We should have no tolerance
We should have no tolerance for intolerant people, no freedom for people who would deny us our freedom. With this I agree with you, but to go so far as to hate this foolish and ignorant people would be stupid. Why? Because if we hate them we will be unable to think clearly (many, many psychological studies support this) and hence will be unable to deal with the problem rationally.
Fight Al Qaeda yes, Nuke the middle east, No!
omg
Ann coulter would be the worst person to be president, rather have george bush !!!
Let's at least let the babies live
I've always thought that the most effective way to fight a war would be to try to kill and demoralize as many on the other side as possible. In that sense, killing lots of noncombatants is a decent way to win. But is that what we really want from civilization? I think we're moving away from the times when wars were fought and won through the destruction of other societies. We can see that it doesn't work in the West. Even jingoistic countries like the USA must face the horrors brought to us by our media and other free media in Europe. Countries in which a repressive elite controls the media, as we find in some of the mid-East, have populations that seem to be effectively whipped into hate. Call me an optimist, but I see the tide of history sweeping those societies away. It may be frustrating for the generals, but it is a good thing that a total war is harder to fight nowadays.
P.S. I do hate fundies, I just think killing them is not a nice way to live.
reply
isn't it so nice to believe that somehow the human race has moved away or evolved far enough that we don't need violence or war to solve problems? doesn't that just give you a cozy feeling inside?
if you postulate that we are all humans, and the human in the ME hate us, then the conclusion would be either the people in the west are more evolved than the people in the ME ( you being a liberal westerner would probably never vouch for this option) OOORRRR the people in the west are just like the people in the ME and are capable of hatred and violence, just as greatly as the other. if that is the case then, the US, europe, canada, and such basically have a free pass from "higher western ethics", turn into the savage animals which we all are, and blow the crap out of the people who are trying to kill them.
remember this if you must, PEOPLE DON'T REALLY CHANGE. we have NOT evolved to the point where we don't need violence and war to solve our conflicts.
Clearly SOME people in the
Clearly SOME people in the ME hate all people in the US and SOME people in the US hate all people in the ME (I'd have to count you and the author of the blog in that 2nd group). So yes, you are definately right to assume some people in the ME would have Nuked the US if they had the chance.
The point is though that most people in the US and the ME recognise that the near annihilation of a people by Nuclear weapons would be both
1) Totally barbaric. Think about how many babies would die!
2) Not effective, in that the other side would not accept this and would do anything to take revenge.
Think about what would happen if the US were nuked, tomorrow, by a ME country.
Imagine 75% of Americans dead, and most of our cities destroyed. Would you not do damn near ANYTHING to take revenge on those fuckers??? I DEFINATELY would, and I'm fairly liberal.
My argument is not that we should be nice to terrorists or try to condone their evil, but that we should be sane in our response to their acts. Sanity, please.
Wow.
Just, wow. Your ignorance and utter retardation truly is humbling. I'm not even going to bother deconstructing the absurdities of this post. I'm going to save myself the headache and simply remove PT's RSS feed from my subscriptions and never bother with this site/magazine again. Such is the wonderful power of the interwebs.
reply
i get this type of reply from everyone i know who can no longer stand the heat and continue on this discussion. the fact is that they know that they can't win because what i am saying and what i believe is just the cold hard facts, reality.
why don't you grow a pair and continue on, if you can? why don't you stop being a pansy and continue on our discussion into this area, if you even CAN?
Such is the wonderful power of you the ostrich sticking you head into the sand to avoid seeing the lion coming straight toward you.
Reality, are you in fact the
Reality, are you in fact the author of this blog?
Saying, "I get this kind of reply" suggests you might be.
I am adding reviews to the blog authors books on Amazon linking to this blog so that people can read the ignorant and immoral opinions of the author.
And to suggest that such revenge is sensible based on an EP argument is just ridiculous! Have you not heard that reciprocal altruism combined with sensible revenge/punishment is a better survival strategy than extreme revenge?
Psychopaths tend to end up in Jail!
I totally agree with you.
I totally agree with you. Such comments on a blog for a supposedly "scientific" website are totally ridiculous.
I object to the stupid assumption that nuking the ME would stop terrorism more than I do on moral grounds. Killing millions of babies (not to mention Americans!) in the ME with nukes would cause massively more revenge from the surviving population than our current policy.
Reply to "Disgusted":
Calling all Chickenhawks
So this is "science"?
The "science" of the soul no less?
Give me the other fanatics any day.
Well since we're being so rational & reasonable, "psych-" this dimwits.
If this juvenile delinquent yuppie eunuch would've stuck to science he might've been able to "enlighten" us about the evolutionary biology of the yellow breasted chickenhawk.
What are you waiting for tough guy, haven't you heard Uncle Sam is looking for a few good men? What's the matter, are you afraid they might smell the semen on your breath? Don't worry, if you don't ask they won't tell. Or something like that.
Once upon a time, when men were men, they lied about their age & medical conditions to get into the army, not to get out of it.
You've had seven years to get your affairs in order, you & your chickenhawk flock don't have any excuses any more. For you turkeys to still be shooting off your mouths like war is a video game or spectator sport without half the world dying of laughter just goes to show that we live in an insane society.
And as Socrates (or Mr. Spock) said, "In an insane society the sane man will appear to be insane."
I could say a lot more but it'll just get censored anyway.
And "So it goes."
Sincerely,
Joe Coletta
Oh,
For the rest of the yuppie eunuchs at Psyhopeepee Today who "have not yet established a policy of censoring our bloggers" don't worry about it. I just did your job for you. Happy to help, call back any time.
Clarification
Does anyone read the Geneva convention?
Because, it's all online, and it's pretty straightforward. For example, "Convention IV relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War", article 3, part 1:
"In addition to the provisions which shall be implemented in peace-time, the present Convention shall apply to all cases of declared war or of any other armed conflict which may arise between two or more of the High Contracting Parties, even if the state of war is not recognized by one of them.
The Convention shall also apply to all cases of partial or total occupation of the territory of a High Contracting Party, even if the said occupation meets with no armed resistance."
...
"Art. 3. In the case of armed conflict not of an international character occurring in the territory of one of the High Contracting Parties, each Party to the conflict shall be bound to apply, as a minimum, the following
provisions: "
...
"Art. 4. Persons protected by the Convention are those who, at a given moment and in any manner whatsoever, find themselves, in case of a conflict or occupation, in the hands of a Party to the conflict or Occupying Power of which they are not nationals."
So you see, since both Iraq and the United States are parties to the Geneva Conventions, the provisions for the protection of civilians applies in any armed conflict. Unilateral slaughter of millions of innocents is most certainly prohibited.
Source: http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/FULL/380?OpenDocument
Provocative
At last, a provocative post that pulls the silent readers out of their insular lives into the pool of righteous indignation. Can't read it without pointing out why it's all wrong, and the more folks respond, the more similar responses will be evoked. I'll say that I like your bravery in positing we nuke them all. However, I'll say that the long drawn-outness (if I can use a made up word here) of this war isn't related to lack of hate but to lack of concise military planning and execution. By that I mean that we waited too late to send in more troops, and that fault lies with a president who is better at stumbling through a speech than following the advice of his experience military officials. So I think this post starts off on the wrong foot by simply assuming that more hate is what is sustaining the other factions. Not at all. Any good fighter knows that the less the emotion, the more the intellect driving the fact. That said it's poor planning and poor execution. By the way, the next provocative post should at least stem from facts and not conjecture. A back-up experiment maybe. Or something
very good
go to the library, pick a copy of sun tzu's art of war, and come up with a better strategy, if you choose not to nuke the enemy to kingdom come.
nuking the enemy will solve the problem, no doubt about it. it is simple, quick ,effective, and rather cheap.
however, because we are so ethically just, we want to look for some other way, some other way which doesn't involved killing a millions of people. well, go right ahead and start strategizing my friend. it may take you decades or even centuries and require billions if not trillions of dollars, but go right ahead. if you somehow do succeed after all your effort, i'll just give you a nice pat on the back and say, "good for you, have a cookie." hopefully you can then go along your merry way and feel good about yourself.
Dumb
What an -... There is no shortage of dumb out there!
I'm a neuroscience student -
I'm a neuroscience student - it's not hard to see that this article's plainly full of shit.
Yes, hate may be an innate emotion, but when you project that onto your ideas about why the United States is losing, you fail to note that humans have created changes on large scales in all realms of life where they've had conflicts on much more peaceful term s .
reply
what does the fact that you being a neuroscience student have to do with anything?
and please, from your so eloquent words of reply, please tell me why this article was "full of shit"?
because it is...
because it is...
Hooray for Hate and Genocide!
Please let this be some sort of trick played to elicit reactions from suckers.