The Keys to My Castle

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Are Women Contributing to the Demise of Men?

"Guys are flaming out in school, wiping out socially with girls and sexually with women," says Philip Zimbardo, professor emeritus at Stanford University in a TED talk just last year. Read More

Too Much is made of the "demise of men"

I'd like to make a few observations:

The first is that in the recent past, the common thought was that a boy needed to get an education and good job in order to get a wife and family.

Young men today see little value in getting married. Many witnessed their fathers being dragged through divorce court with no hope of child custody.

Why work hard to impress women, when they can still get sex and marriage looks more like a bad trap?

Boys are moving slower than the girls because they are more secure and confident about their abilities and future. Young women still seem to be victims of their own fears and need for security.

Second: The fact that Women outnumber men in college needs to be tempered with an examination of what they are studying.

I can tell you girls are not studying Engineering. Even those that graduate from Med school tend to gravitate to the "softer side of medicine", like Pediatrics.

Very few become surgeons.

The majority of girls in college are studying Psychology and Business -- I'm afraid that they are going to be frustrated when they see technical men, with informal training,make more money.

People suck up these statistics without stopping to ask, "does this make sense?" -- and it doesn't when to factor in what skills and knowledge it requires for our society to function in the 21st Century.

(BTW: Engineering and Technology can be a gold mine for women due to their rarity.)

Third: The media has pushed the idea of "the end of men" with little substance.

The effect is to tell boys "why bother?". Schools still promote conformity and obedience -- things girls are more conditioned for.

There is little tolerance for the fidgety energy needed to explore, learn and innovate -- which are valuable life skills as opposed to academic achievement.

However, I'm afraid society is going to depend heavily on men for a long, long time.

Philosophy and Culture

People seek pleasure and avoid pain, and most of us will try harder to avoid pain then seek pleasure. We do this in the short term and long term depending on our desires, goals, habits and willpower among other aspects.

Pain and pleasure for a particular individual has not only individual influences but for most people quite a sizable component from the culture they are immersed in which has certain 'rules' ( both codified and implied) and an overall philosophical vector to it.

The dominant media culture in the U.S. today tends to carry implied and sometimes overt sexism and racism against males and particularly white males. One example is the increasing occurrence of 'males are getting beaten' and 'do women need men anymore' kind of articles.

Another thread that runs through the culture is one of individuality and 'doing your own thing.' Adapting yourself to what is considered the 'norm' and 'expected' isn't expected so much culturally anymore (a good thing in my opinion.)

So boys get told they are more immature, less intelligent, more {some bad thing} and less {some good thing} than girls are. As they grow up they see so many examples of hyper-feminist women in the media that are demeaning toward men. Through college and young adult life they see men destroyed through the bias of the courts against men whether it be having to pay for 18 years for a child they fathered with a girl they slept with once or a divorce destroying everything the man worked for his life. In the job market ethnic minorities and women are sometimes pushed ahead of them in job situations solely because of their race and sex.

So, back to the original premise: if people seek pleasure and go to great lengths to avoid pain, why are males avoiding so much in life? Pretty plain to me!

Now, is this the 'demise' of men? Hardly. First of all, these things are cyclical. Rather than equality and fairness, the whiners of society that bring these waves about truly want to be in the superior position and be on the good receiving end of the unfairness. If you doubt, look at all the money the Liberals in power have taken and shuffled to friends and acquaintances with TARP and other legal theft programs. At some point in the future it will probably sadly swap ends again and men will put women in the inferior cultural position again.

Even better for men is the fact that now they know that so much of the 'just act like society tells you and get a good job, marry, have kids and go to church for that GOOOOOD life' story is utter BS and made to trap men, they are avoiding that awful fate. It's a tough life working the job you want, spending your money and time your own way and not having to listen to a nagging women and crying, ungrateful brats every night but I guess we will just have to accept our demise!

Thanks for your

Thanks for your thought-provoking reply. With traditional male-female roles being turned upside down since the advent of the feminist movement, I find, both in personal experience and in listening to my therapy clients, that both genders are faced with challenges that our parents before never were and it's downright confusing, at best, for us both. At some point, the shift will come and I hope to see a more harmonious way of life. The question is, when?

I'm going to say it's

I'm going to say it's something different.
It's safe to say that for the vast majority of boys in their teenage years today, finding a partner is important. This hasn't changed over the years, but there are some differences. I think that more than ever, due to media portrayals and so on, sex with multiple partners (over a period, not at once) is starting to become the norm. I don't have concrete data, but I think that girls in high school and college now are more likely to engage in sex with more partners than before. I've known girls to break up with their boyfriends because they wanted to have sex with other guys.

I would agree that porn has something to do with this, but not just with guys, but with girls as well. It seems that girls in their teens are constantly searching for a perfect guy based on physical attributes or "fun-ness". I'm not saying all girls do this, but it seems that they have a much more malevolent presence in male-female relationships than they used to.

How does this affect men? I know many guys who don't even look for relationships because the girl might leave them, or because she has slept with many partners already. Guys aren't confident in their ability to find a relationship anymore, and I don't think it has to do with video games or porn, as that didn't affect generations of teens in the 70s 80s and 90s. It seems that because relationships are so unstable because of this free-love idea being put forward by Siegel and other posters (not that they're the cause), it discourages a lot of men from finding relationships and therefore applying themselves in life. Contrary to popular opinion, most men want a devoted partner rather than being able to sleep with vast amounts of women. The current sexual zeitgeist of the Western World is causing problems for that desire. I think that this plays more of a part in the demise of men rather than men being constantly told we're stupid.

what about the media?

The diaper-changing theory sounds like Zimbardo just speculating out loud. And the title of this article is just meant to generate hits. What does that even mean "Are women contributing to the demise of men?" I don't see men dying more often than usual.

As a single woman who has been dating for awhile now, has been lucky to have had wonderful partners (and a couple of not-so-wonderful ones) and also has lots of smart, sensitive, emotionally available male friends, I do notice that something seem to be happening to men in this culture. I'm sure it has to do with women's changing roles - it must - but I've also noticed that, for my whole life, men have been portrayed in the media as either 1)strong, silent, unavailable and violent, 2)borderline idiotic, 3)narcissistic and pathological, or 4) dependent on their female partners in some way. Where are the media portrayals of men who are all the things we tell men we want them to be: successful, solvent, independent, available, sensitive, mature, healthy, strong, and capable? This has to have something to do with how boys and men are seen and treated by the people around them. Remember when the media was roundly criticized for portraying women as weak, silly, and dependent? Where's the media advocacy for men?

Great point

very much do agree...

Men & Media

Having worked in media for 15 years, I agree that it has its role in shaping perceptions of both genders. However, I am also quick to note that "blaming media" is an easy scapegoat for personal responsibility. Media , generally speaking, is often a reflection of what's happening in the culture. Yes, it can be over-the-top with it's stereotypes and rich in fantasy, but it's often built from what's happening in society...case in-point Ellen DeGeneres' coming out in her television show paved the way for more acceptance of homosexuality in television; the Cosby Show punctuated a more positive perception of African American families and All in the Family's racial and religious jokes certainly would call for protest and policy today. So whether it be homosexual, ethnic, religious or gender issues, we all need an advocate. And from one generation to the next, some need it more than others. Perhaps now, as you note, is the generation for men.

Great Article

I agree with you and your colleagues for the most part. I think some working mothers are afraid to have to much time away from their kids so they feel they have to do it all and are afraid to leave dad with too much. I think alot of women still see men as incapable dolts unable to adequitely care for small children. I think most women are to insecure with their partner, and are afraid to intrust the care of their children to him. Working women often complain they have to do more around the house then their husbands, but from my experience, women put the yolk on themselves, because they're afraid their husband will mess it up or won't do it at all.
My wife is better educated, works and makes more than I do, and because I'm home more than she is, most of the childcare falls on me. Childcare is not rocket science, and my wife never made it seem like it was something I couldn't handle. I've changed so many diapers now, I can do it in my sleep. I think this is something more men will have to get used to doing if they plan on getting married, staying married and raising a family. In most young couples I see today the woman is working, better educated, and making more while the husband isn't making much, or isn't making anything. Men need to offer more to their wives and family, if they're not going to be working, or not making a whole lot of money.

You're spot on

Thanks David. We women often do this to ourselves, instead of standing up for what we want. Biological or learned, as a group, we need to become better at addressing what we want and stop blaming our male counterparts. Now, I don't discount there are plenty os men who are quick to sacrifice also and are taken advantage of by some women; I'm speaking in generalizations here.

Don't know if I believe this completely

While I believe this is what's preventing men from helping more around the house, I don't believe it has anything to do with her being superior over him. For years, women have always been the primary care givers, while the men worked and provided food for the family. Back then it was understood that women were 'superior' caregivers and nurturers, which is why, traditionally it's been women that have had to raise the children. But that was the limit of their superiority, as men were basically understood to be superior at every thing else. But men did just fine back then. Men didn't seem to care, that she was a better caregiver. Why would they care now? Of course now, women have proven that they can do basically anything a man can do, and can now even provide for themselves and family without a man, which I think is great. I'm actually glad to see how far women have come and I really don't think there is really any 'demise of men.' In actuallity, the rate of men finishing high school, going to college has actually increased in the past 50 years, it's just the rate for women finishing high school and finishing college has risen so much higher. People seem to think that more boys today are dropping out of school and college then they were 20-30 years ago and that simply isn't true. I don't have a college degree and most of my male friends don't have degrees either, but my girlfriend and many of their girlfriends or wives have degrees and they are earning more money than we are, but I for one am not insecure about it. I'm actually seeing it more and more. Whether he makes more or she makes more, it shouldn't matter. I just think more men should realize, that women are just as capable as they are at making money and holding a career, and needs to accept that his girlfriend or wife will more than likely be better educated, more successful, and making more money than he is.

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Jennifer Musselman is an adjunct professor at University of Southern California and Pepperdine University in Los Angeles.

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