- Home
- Find a Therapist
- Topics
- Tests
- Magazine
- Psych Basics
- Blogs
- Diagnosis Dictionary
If Dads helped more, would Moms have more babies?
The enormous time and energy investment of mothers compared to that of fathers probably greatly influences the number of children they bear. The division of labor ratio between husbands and wives continues to run about 2:1, a ratio that is no different from 90 years ago when women stayed home.Read More
















Huh?
Is there an underpopulation problem in this country or in the world that I've not heard about? Or a shortage of orphaned children? Why should more, and not less, childbearing be encouraged? If you must have kids, do the moral thing: adopt.
Cool!
Hey, doesn't this mean that in the interests of reducing the collective human ecological footprint women should really be performing even more of the housework than they already do?
Cool ! from some points of view
I agree that there is likely
I agree that there is likely a positive correlation between the amount of housework and childcare that men do, and the number of children their female partners bear. However, I think this correlation would be weak, because there are so many other factors people consider when deciding whether to have (more) children. One of these factors is loss (or perceived loss) of personal freedom. Parents too often resent the demands of parenting. Another is expense - if both parents are working, daycare may be needed which is a huge expense. Yet another is delaying childbirth so long that the couple may only be able to have one child.
One of many factors
Huh?--A reply
There is concern about the declining fertility rates in many European countries. The topic was covered in depth by Russell Shorto recently in "No Babies? - Declining Population in Europe (New York Times: 6/29/08): Birthrates across the Continent are falling at drastic and, to many, alarming rates."
This article also responds to some points Barbara raised to my first post: “it'd be interesting to see a worldwide perspective on family size and how it's changed over the last century with the advent of birth control, reduction of major diseases in many areas, labor practices, and environmental/ecological issues.”
Of course, there are well taken counter arguments to and controversy about “No Babies?” in a series of letters to the editor (7/13/08) that appears online. Two brief excerpts from the letters:
“Fear of a work force too small to support pensioners is economically real. Fear of immigration and increasing ethnic and cultural diversity is politically and socially real. But the realities of a widening gap between sustainable world-population levels and growing demands for food, energy, clean air, clean water and arable land overwhelm them.”
“To truly compare America’s birthrate with that of Northern Europe, you will need to take into account a number of socioeconomic factors. What is the birthrate for middle-class Americans who need two incomes and consider higher education a necessity for their children? How many Americans are having more children than they can afford and are living neck-deep in debt and sending their children off to expensive universities so that they can begin their lives in debt as well?”
“If Dad helped…” has more to do with how male participation and female overload affect childbearing decisions than the much broader conversations on overpopulation, global warming, even adoption (which will be addressed in a future blog).
Boy, you can sure
...tell which replies are written by males!!
Are you sure?
In my household my husband does at least half of the housework and almost all of the cooking--and many of my friends husbands do so similarly. I wonder if the demographic you're describing is affected by particular factors such as geography, income, education, etc? My husband and I live in the East, and are both college educated. We have a three year old, and are expecting our second. In planning the second, the idea of my husband helping more never crossed my mind (maybe because he already does.) What did--and what I don't think you've considered adequately here, is my career, and how it would be impacted by a second round of maternity leave, and more sleep deprivation...
National Sample
I'm in the demographic...
I'm in the demographic... college-educated, 38, from big city area in northeast... have 2 kids... AND my husband's pitching in around the house is probably about 1/8 of what I do. Thank god, I'm a stay at home mom these days... I'm a little afraid what its going to be like when i got back to work in a year or so. No more babies for us. THat means no career for me and I would be SO DEPRESSED without a career! ;-)
How Mothers Feel...
"it may be a good idea to
"it may be a good idea to begin to "train" him now so he'll be ready to help more when you return to work."
A small reminder: men aren't dogs.
Word Play
"no different from 90 years
"no different from 90 years ago when women stayed home"
I think you'll find that 90 years ago many, many women did not stay home. They worked in shops, factories, coal faces, schools, weaving sheds, hospitals, and - importantly - in the houses of the few women who could afford to stay home. In this area in my grandmother's generation, girls went into the mills and weaving sheds or laundries at 13, or, if they were lucky, into domestic service or shop work. Every child from 10 up had time off from school to help with the harvest. Even poor people usually had a girl living with them in exchange for domestic help (looking after the baby while the parents were working at the mill, taking the laundry to the local washerwoman because it was impossible to do laundry in the average millworker's cottage) so that they could go out and work. Before mass industrialisation, most families participated fully in home-based industries and farming.
It really, really aggravates me to see the myth that men provided and women stayed home perpetuated all the time - until recently, it just wasn't possible for the vast majority of families to support this.
Lotta songs written about love, very few about house-cleaning...
When word gets around that any men seen at Wal-Mart with arm-loads of cleaning supplies are a hot item and are being actively picked up by all the sexy babes, with the same being true for single men seen at the laundromat... Oh, nevermind.
Until then, women should put up or shut up about the inadequacies of the men they choose to marry. Studies have shown women strongly preferentially select for men with more traditional sex role views -- everything from initiating and asking for dates, to paying for them, to getting down on one knee with the diamond ring, etc. And then they magically expect marriage to transform these same men into behaving like obedient SNAGs. Right. Good luck with that. Especially in a world where men are still expected to be responsible for getting the oil changed, doing the lawn work, cleaning out the gutters, etc.
Jeffery Leving and Glenn Sacks (and others) have debunked the whole feminist "second shift" mythology; when time worked both inside *and outside* the home are counted up, things come out equal: http://www.glennsacks.com/are_american_husbands.htm
Besides, you never hear a man complaining that his wife doesn't do her fair share of polishing the chrome on the Camaro. :>
Feminist "second shift" mythology
If I want to learn more about whether there is truth to a "feminist 'second shift' mythology," thanks, but I'll look to a real research study, not an article tossed off by a divorce attorney who represents men in divorce proceedings (Mr. Glenn Sacks, per the linked site). Someone who has a vested interest in portraying women's contributions in childraising vs. mens as a less than vital difference, because such arguments are in his clients' interests in order to get larger allocations of divorce assets, does not seem like a terribly objective source for information on the subject.
Part of what drives the fervor of many women today in recognizing the extra burdens women may carry in continuing to work outside the home (or in staying home just with kids) is that so many of those women KNOW what the job stress of their husbands is like already. For example, my husband and I are both attorneys; I went to Stanford, attended a top 20 law school and graduated in the top 10% of my class, and practiced as a patent attorney in the typical high stress attorney work environment before staying home with my kids. Now, while I can't know exactly what it is now like for my husband to (now) work as an attorney job and still come home to the obligations of family with children after his work day is over, I DO know that compared to my prior challenging work life, my raising of two small children and taking care of ill parents over the last 8 years has been vastly more taxing than my prior work life. It's not even close. (On that note, let alone child care or house care issues, studies show that women vastly disproportionately serve as the active caregivers for aging or ill parents or other family members.)
One quick note from the stay at home mom perspective about the article: not at all to knock on the accomplishments of or demands on mothers who are working heavily outside the home, but I had to take some issue with the comment that "Employed mothers manage the same household tasks and childcare activities as homemaking mothers equaling two full-time jobs for women who work and raise children." As for any general comment, there are of course full time working mothers who are complete dynamos and manage to do incredible amounts of "tasks and childcare activities" while there are homemaking mothers who keep their responsibilities or activities light (for whatever reasons from belief in their focus on the most important things to sloth). However, in staying home and seeing the different contributions different parents are able to make at school and other activities, I can safely say that families with a stay at home parent disproportionately take on much more of the volunteer activities and many other responsibilities that are critical to run many very valuable programs, as well as being more active in facilitating their childrens' ability to connect with other children via playdates, etc. I am sure the comment was written with the intent of being supportive of women generally in terms of having a larger portion of the responsibilities of childcare and home care put upon them. But the specific comment made comes accross as blithely dismissing the additional contributions many and perhaps most mom-homemakers make as being something that women working outside the home are able add to their work responsibilities as a matter of course, which I believe undervalues those contributions, and is simply not the case.
No dismissal intended
Post new comment