Sexual Intelligence

Sex—and culture, politics, psychology—and sex

Better Sex: Porn or Women

Sex with a partner is still among the best things life has to offer. Read More

It's not about friction

No offense, but your article demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of porn-induced erectile dysfunction.

It has nothing to with "friction", as the men cannot achieve an erection when they try to masturbate without porn. Some cannot achieve an erection with porn.

Really grasp what's contained in the above simple statement:
- It's not performance anxiety because they are masturbating, although without porn.
- It's not lack of friction, because once again, they are masturbating.

Other aspects of porn-induced ED that are usually omitted:

1) All the men had been using porn for years with no problems getting erections to porn.

2) Few report any moral or religious misgivings, or guilt, surrounding their porn use.

3) They experienced a gradual decline in sexual function - often over the course of years.

4) Many men had seen medical professionals, and had tried various therapies or regimens - with no success.

5) When they abstained, nearly all subjects experienced similar psychological and physical symptoms - many of which mimic withdrawal from an addiction.

6) It took from 3-12 months to recover so it's not a refractory period as some unbelievably suggest.

6) The clincher: All had only one variable in common. When that single variable was removed (masturbation to porn) - nearly all regained erectile health.

There's a reason that your therapists in NZ brought it up - it's real. Here's a few urologists and sex therapists that disagree with you.

'Internet Porn and Erectile Dysfunction' by Urologist James Elist, F.A.C.S., F.I.C.S.
http://www.drelist.com/porn-and-erectile-dysfunction

Andrew Kramer MD, Professor of Urology, UM http://www.doctoroz.com/videos/can-porn-cause-erectile-dysfunction-pt-1

Lawrence A. Smiley M.D. medical director of The Diagnostic Center for Men http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/women-who-stray/201308/erectile-dysf...

4 experts - Two MDs, Urologist, PhD sexologist
http://www.doctoroz.com/videos/can-porn-cause-erectile-dysfunction-pt-1

Chris Kraft, Ph.D. Johns Hopkins sexologist discusses porn-induced sexual dysfunctions http://toginet.com/podcasts/sextalkwithlou/?s=sextalkwithlou

Really

You know, I have a hard time believing this, pardon the pun. Perhaps it is the type of masturbation -- furtive guilty or desperate urgent versus more of a Tantra training experience -- which takes time and patience? I buy what the author, not you, are selling. Sorry.

Men in long term sexless marriages are probably the best subset of long term porn for masturbation users. These men, when they escape, do not have problems obtaining erections with real women. If they have problems, they are generally about ejaculating sooner than they want and not understanding how to manager their refractory periods.

Perhaps the erectile issues are caused not by masturbation to a media but guilt over masturbation and the media.

I think it is time for a "double-blind study" - which for this issue, might require masturbation with both hands.

Has nothing to do with guilt and shame...

"Perhaps the erectile issues are caused not by masturbation to a media but guilt over masturbation and the media"

I assure you it is not guilt or shame about masturbating. Many guys with pied including me happily jacked my teens away, and enjoyed sex. I watched porn because I liked watching porn and enjoyed looking at naked girls.

The majority of guys on secular porn recovery forums are athiest or agnostic and have no shame or guilt around the subject.

A side note... I think it is hilarious to actually say... in the year 2014, that teens and college guys feel shame about masturbating lol. When I was in high school a few years ago my friends and I actually watched porn in class... joked about it as no big deal and even when I was 13 shared the best websites and tips for busting the best nu...I mean... having the best orgasm.

"Perhaps the erectile issues are caused not by masturbation to a media but guilt over masturbation and the media"

These men are usually all over the age of 28, therefore did not grow up with internet porn.

"If they have problems, they are generally about ejaculating sooner than they want"

Besides erectile dysfunction, the other biggest problem is actually delayed ejaculation... meaning it takes a looooong time or is impossible to climax with a partner. That, is something that has not been seen since Shakespear.

oops...

I accidentally posted the same quote twice. I meant to quote this:

"Men in long term sexless marriages are probably the best subset of long term porn for masturbation users. These men, when they escape, do not have problems obtaining erections with real women."

Those are the guys who I was referring to who did not grow up with internet porn during adolescence.

Sorry about that.

Sorry

Difficulty in ejaculation is probably caused by the amount of friction pressure provided by a hand, which is hard to replicate via vaginal penetration.

Again, to me the likely is how they masturbate, not that they masturbate to internet porn.

I still doubt that internet porn afflicts wide spread physical problems as you assert..

Let's see data -- not cherry-picking anecdotes from young men who have problems to generalize the affect on the entire youth population.

No.. I am sorry

You must not have read Johnson Rises original post you replied to. Guys with porn-induced ED cannot masturbate without porn.

I will say it again a little differently so maybe it will be clear.

Guys with porn induced ED, CANNOT get an erection by themselves, no matter how hard they stroke their penis. I know first hand... pardon the pun.

The facts are correct

Real simple, again.

Healthy young men, who had no guilt about porn use, who grew up using internet porn, slowly developed weaker erections - and eventually could not achieve an erection without porn.

The ED had nothing to do with a partner or anxiety because these healthy men could not achieve an erection while masturbating without porn. Many could not achieve an erection with porn.

Not guilt. Not anxiety. No physical cause. No psychological cause. Only variable in common was years of heavy porn use.

When that single variable was removed (porn use), all eventually regained erectile health. It took from 3-12 months to heal, and nearly all experienced withdrawal symptoms and a loss of libido that lasted weeks to months.

One variable in common, one variable removed. End of experiment.

You cannot do a double blind study on porn-induced ED. Double blind means that neither the researcher nor the subject knows who is getting a placebo, and who isn't. Works OK for drugs. Obviously, the subjects will know as they will be told to not watch porn.

For porn-induced ED the only valid experiment is the one being done by thousands of men: Rule out all known causes of chronic ED, then eliminate porn use and monitor the results.

agree, but...

Your points are convincing and encouraging to hear. But I would add that men with a high sex drive would also not want to have a willing young woman telling them that they can never again masturbate to porn!

And as for wanting a willing young woman, sure. Just like many people would like to be a highly successful surgeon. But few want to do all the work needed to get there. So if you asked a young man, you have 2 hours to relax before you need to go to bed and be rested for the class exam tomorrow morning, would you prefer a good porn-assisted climax, or would you prefer trying to talk your girlfriend into a quickie or go out and find a one-night stand? I know all too well what I preferred in my college days.

Truth

Exactly.

And, similarly, women with high sex drives would not want to give up masturbation and their vibrators!

Porn induced ED is not about preference, it is about ability

I was a healthy, sexually confident and experienced guy who could only get an erection to porn. Indeed, I could NOT masturbate on a nice relaxing evening with my hand and my own fantasies... nothing... no sign of life in my penis. It took me 9 months off porn to be able to have successful sex again.

I would have preferred to be able to keep a boner with my beautiful, sexy and loving woman, but I was only able to get it up with porn.

"Inevitably, someone raised a very common concern: that there’s an epidemic of young men with erection problems."

It is a very common concern because it is probably a very common occurrence. Again, to be clear this is not classic "performance anxiety" because these men like I could not masturbate by themselves without porn, some can't even with porn. All seem to recover within a few months or LONGER after cutting out porn.

"This is supposedly caused by all their masturbating to porn—getting accustomed to the perfect stimulation from their hand, thereby reducing their interest in, and satisfaction from, sex with a real woman."

This statement shows a lack of understanding about porn-induced ED. It is not a result of getting accustomed to the friction from our hand when masturbating (although that doesn't help), it is about the chronic over consumption of high-speed internet porn leading to brain changes. We sexually condition ourselves like Pavlov's dog and the bell to salivate (get excited) for our screens and not our partners. This is called neuroplasticity and was described in Norman Doidge's book "The Brain That Changes Itself" back in 2007... it is a shame it is 7 years later and you are still denying porn induced ED exists.

"Where’s the data about young men’s alleged increasing erectile problems? It doesn't exist."

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. The same rubbish was said about the harms of smoking a long long time ago.

"The answer is not for young men to stop masturbating or watching internet porn (which are two different things, right?). It’s for young men to acquire more social, psychological, and sexological skills."

My social, psychological, and sexological skills were just find and dandy, but I eventually could not keep an erection with a beautiful girl. Others with pied are the same. Furthermore, this statement shows an ignorance to the thousands of guys who have recovered like me. The answer for our unexplained ED was to stop watching porn. We can go back to masturbating and be fine, but if we continue to watch porn ED comes back. Porn is the problem, not masturbation.

I could ramble for days.... but the simple fact that guys with porn-induced ED cannot masturbate with their hand and imagination completely refutes this article. I hope you understand that, because if you really want to help people, simply suggesting they give up porn will do it, saying porn cannot lead to dysfunctions, I promise you, is hurting many.

Check out my HuffPost blog for a few other misconceptions surrounding porn addiction.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gabe-deem/porn-addiction_b_4495344.html

Better Sex: Porn or Women

After having sex for 40 years with over 50+ different women there is one thing I have learned for a fact, i.e. "an orgasm is an orgasm" no matter what or how it is produced. When a man ejaculates it always gives him the same pleasure either by masturbating or having sex with a woman. The only difference is the foreplay with a womans body before he has an orgasm, looking,touching and feeling the different body parts of the woman that excites the man (and the woman) but when the climax comes, it is always the same intense pleasure. I can masturbate for hours looking at some of the most beautiful, most sexy women on planet earth on the internet and I don't have to expend nearly as much energy or work as I would when having sexual intercourse with a female. I have even had sex with my wife and an hour later gone on the internet and masturbated. Very often I do have a craving to put my penis in a womans vagina but when I do I very soon realize it doesn't feel any better than my hand or even her hand, but of course this depends on how you masturbate. I don't just stroke my penis back and forth as you see in porn videos, I use a good lubricant and rub my thumb and two fingers all around the head of the penis where 90% of the nerve endings are located stimulating the nerves in my glans penis until my legs start shaking. I've been masturbating since I was 13 and I'll probably keep on doing it until I take my last breath. It's extremely pleasurable, convenient and so easy to do.

You're lucky that you started sex before you met high-speed porn

It tends to be guys who started out on internet porn who lose their ability to orgasm with real partners. They are wiring to *it* at an age when you were wiring to real partners.

For them, internet porn, with its unending sexual novelty becomes the only way to get off. And for some, porn eventually stops working. That is, they report that the pleasure of climax fades. Some ejaculate with flaccid penises (because they can no longer get hard, even with porn). It's clear that something is going on in their brains' appetite mechanisms that never went on in your generation.

Maybe get informed before you opine with such certainty. I suggest you start here: "Adolescent Brain Meets Highspeed Internet Porn" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvyejdlmKpE&feature=youtu.be

individual differences

I have no doubt that you speak accurately for yourself and your experience that "an orgasm is an orgasm". But that is not true for all men. For some, context matters a lot more. There are just too many different tastes, levels of drive, fetishes, sexual orientations, inhibitions, and emotional connections to sex to assume anything like that applies to all men in general.

Mileage may vary

When it comes to sex, there are 7 billion people on the planet, and it gets flaky out toward the edges. There must be some subset of people who get to where they can't have sex except with porn, just as there are people who get to where they can't have sex without thoughts of smelly feet or without DAWN OF THE DEAD playing on their DVD player. It's a wide variety of sexual experience out there, which is what Dr. Klein is saying. Plus, sexual tastes and desires change over the course of a lifetime, thank God.

Meanwhile, what he says about college students feels true. Most of them want human partners. Having had both human partners and virtual screen-image ones, I agree.

Hmmm..... "Tends to be" based on what Western peer-review data?

percentage of men with porn-induced ED?

What might resolve some of the arguments here is knowing approximately what percentage of young men develop porn-induced ED from extensive masturbation to porn. If the percentage is high, the author could be faulted for missing a major trend. But if the percentage is low, perhaps the author has simply missed seeing the situation personally in his practice.

It's very difficult to see

a phenomenon that you don't believe exists. Especially when your training at an unaccredited sexology diploma mill (like the one where Klein got his training) insists that internet porn use is always harmless...and always will be.

How about that data?

How about the data? What's the percentage, and what's the source for the data? Not people who log into a website, but actual peer-reviewed survey data. I suspect even Klein, with his Ph.D. and major books from major publishers, could understand it, and so can the rest of us.

The data on porn-induced sexual dysfunctions

that Klein would accept is in the same place as the studies that tobacco execs would accept as convincing evidence that cigarettes cause fatal illness.

Reality doesn't wait around for scientists, and fortunately, thousands of young guys with porn-induced ED aren't waiting around for them either. They can make their own experiments and see the truth for themselves. Efforts like Klein's are simply dust.

I suspect that other factors,

I suspect that other factors, such as obesity, anti-depressants, heart/blood pressure medications, diabetes, alcohol consumption, prostate cancer treatments, etc. account for WAY MORE more cases of ED than porn, so why the emphasis in the media on porn and ED?

because the causes you list are

applicable to the over 40 crowd. In addition, the existence porn-induced ED in healthy young men is solid proof that Internet porn can cause severe negative consequences.

not sure what your point is

Yeah, OK, not arguing with your statement. But "Internet porn" is now such a broad category that almost anything you say about it would be true in some corner of the population. Aside from almost any fetish you can imagine, it now includes private webcam sessions, user contributed, for women by women, and also sites which try to put the emphasis on realistic sex and "making love", to mention only a very few things.

I think a lot of men don't

I think a lot of men don't want to accept the existence of porn-induced ED because they're addicted to porn.

Also it'll probably become harder for men to find willing partners for sex without resorting to paying for it, as more and more women are turned off by porn-induced sex, which is generally unpleasurable, impersonal, aggressive and lacking in skill, imagination and tenderness.

By the way, I found it interesting that the author chose to separate pornography and sexual exploitation, as though they're mutually exclusive. The sex industry is well known for criminality, trafficking and coercion of the vulnerable, ie. sexual exploitation.

porn industry?

Interesting, I can't make a legitimate post because the I get a message, "Your submission has triggered the spam filter and will not be accepted."

Sigh

Internet porn is not new by any means, it was around when I was in college. I now have two kids and can get it up just fine.

I think people WANT a reason to find porn as a problem, so they take guys who were the usual "loser" types, who can't find a girlfriend either way, who's ONLY outlet is porn and then somehow extrapolate them to other men.

About the only way I see it being an issue would be finding the typical out of shape woman no longer appealing after "getting off" online with healthier women weight wise. I'm not sure if there is even anything to that, and I can't call that a problem with porn, its a problem with over eating in society.

Based on just personal experience, I'd agree, but...

Based only on my personal experience, I'd agree. I've viewed porn off an on for many years and it's had absolutely no effect on my interest or function with real women.

HOWEVER, having read quite a few accounts of men who claim to have porn-induced ED, their focus on porn is sometimes on a scale far beyond anything I could imagine for myself. Personally, I get bored with porn after 10 minutes, but the real thing doesn't bore me. But some of these guys are doing porn many hours a day, day after day, which is beyond my comprehension. So it seems to me that that's enough to affect your primitive stimulus-reward cycle on a deeper level, far beyond merely learning that there is imagery which is superficially more erotic than the sight of your own wife/girlfriend.

I personally only drink socially, never had a craving for a drink, rarely drink alone, and often go weeks without a drink if the social occasion doesn't arise. But I wouldn't say that alcoholism isn't a problem for other people just because it's not a problem for me.

Post new comment

The content of this field is kept private and will not be shown publicly.
  • Web page addresses and e-mail addresses turn into links automatically.
  • Allowed HTML tags: <a> <em> <strong> <cite> <code> <ul> <ol> <li> <dl> <dt> <dd>
  • Lines and paragraphs break automatically.
  • You may quote other posts using [quote] tags.

More information about formatting options

Marty Klein is a certified sex therapist and licensed psychotherapist. He has written five books and 200 articles about sex; his TV appearances include 20/20 andNightline. more...

Subscribe to Sexual Intelligence

Current Issue

Just Say It

When and how should we open up to loved ones?