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Divorce results from emotional distress. Anger, resentment, shame, guilt, and anxiety can tempt folks to want to get back at their spouse. Yet instead of healing emotional pain or easing resentments, divorce battling typically just adds to the emotional damage of everyone involved. Here's a guide to a more constructive pathway for marital disengagement. Read More
This advice works when both
This advice works when both parties are normals. It does not work when one is an abuser / malignant narcissist / sociopath / psychopath. (Their behaviors are the same, only the way their brains came to have the holes in their empathy centers and the problems in their cingulus gyruses, etc. are different.)
Sandra Brown's Women Who Love Psychopaths and Lundy Bancroft's (a male PhD) Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men describe how men like this pay their lawyers tens of thousands of dollars while they're simultaneously tens of thousands of dollars behind on their child support.
Undermining the care-taking of their children, via financial abuse, (now that the abuser no longer has direct access to abuse his spoiuse, he then uses litigation to continue to abuse), is very upsetting to normal mothers. Evolutionarily, it goes very deep in a woman to nurture her children.
Deep circular problem: One of the markers of an abuser is his charm and his ability to lie without remorse, utilizing deep lies of omission. He also thrives when he's lying and oppressing others, and so, he appears cool, calm, collected, and reasonable, which enables him to convince others, especially judges.
It's upsetting and very expensive to have to combat perjury (which family courts do not care about), which is utilized as a preemptive strike, and as a diversionary tactic by abusers. They faslely accuse their targets (the mothers of their children) of the very same behavior that they, themselves enact.
Unfortunately, over time, mothers have observed how well lying works in family law court, and have joined 'em. I loathe those who commit perjury. It ruins it for those of us who tell the truth.
All that said, if both parties are normals, with a normal ability to empathize and reciprocate, then your advice is right on.
Increasingly, as a ripple effect of the family law courts' refusal to hold perjurors and those who defy court orders accountable, which, in turn, has an effect on the children, who experience their destructive parent winning and their nurturing parent losing, (even when blanketed with no information of the destructive parent's bad behavior, children, especially older ones, are sometimes able to figure it out on their own, and they certainly know it onb a cellular level, which caused much cognitive dissonance), we have what seems to be logarithmic growth in selfishness.
My hope is that by spreading awareness, and then by working to change things so that those who won't cooperate / reciprocate, and therefore wreck havoc, are held accountable, more will realize it's better to follow your advice, than to prove they're "right" in court.
The limits of friendly
I 100% agree with everything that the above comment says.
Abusive spouses, dishonest partners, paranoid blamers, and extreme narcissists are amongst the various emotionally unhealthy types of spouses who by definition are highly unlikely to be willing or able to participate in a "friendly" divorce.
Collaborative interactions take two players who are both willing to deal with each other with honesty and with the goal of a win-win solution. Without that prerequisite, alas, the collaborative option disappears.
Thank you, Dr. Heitler, for
Thank you, Dr. Heitler, for agreeing.
What can we do to educate family law judges of the existence of these types?
If family law judges would financially sanction litigants and make them pay for the other side's legal fees at proof of first lie, then a huge amount of contention would be mitigated, because abusers / liars / distorted blamers / malignant narcissists care very much about money.
Then, much money would be preserved for the children, and both litigants could back to positive productivity, instead of the malignant litigant forcing having to respond to lie-filled motion after lie-filled motion, a full time job.
Last problem: I've found that family law lawyers dribble out information, and thereby cause wrong decisions to be made, which in turn, causes litigation to prolong.
They get paid regardless of outcome, and so, they actually promote litigation prolonging, for then, they get paid more. This is especially true of lawyers representing the malignant abuser. It's uncanny how abusers are able to find lawyers with similar world views - that it's okay to take the money away from the children and the nest.
A brilliant idea
I love your idea of making liars pay for the legal fees of their ex-spouse.
I'd suggest that you contact the Family Law division of the ABA (American Bar ASsociation), and also the heads of Family Law in your state lawyers association.
Allowing abuse of the divorce legal system is not in the best interests of anyone except the selfish/hostile spouse.
drh
My ex was one of those - he
My ex was one of those - he left a ten year marriage with a text message, stole tens of thousands of dollars from the marriage, and then proceeded to commit felony bigamy. In court, he took the offensive position and wove elaborate tales that put him in the victim's chair. The judge immediately picked up on it - although his lawyer only realized it after he was never paid-but the system was not set up to handle someone who was willing to lie and manipulate to get his way. He has never followed the terms of the agreement. I would like to see a new law - marital treason.
http://lessonsfromtheendofamarriage.com
I checked out your website and like it a lot.
Bravo on taking a dreadful experience and turning it into a positive gift that you are giving to others!
drh
Excellent concept - Marriage
Excellent concept - Marriage Treason. This is especially important when there's kids involved, for it would teach them clear right and wrong, just like we teach them things like the 6 Pillars of Character in elementary school, and rotating themes of Honesty, Integrity, and Respect in middle school.
When they experience one of their parents doing what they know are very wrong things [abusing their mother in front of them, making promises to change directly to the children, but then breaking those promises, abandoning, not showing for visitations, forcing their remaining custodial parent to become a full time litigant responding to the abandoning parent's war-like and perjury-filled legal moves, (it's impossible and dangerous to lie to children about the reason the custodial parent cannot travel to their soccer game, when the war-like parent has just served yet another 24 hour ex parte motion, so the custodial parent must drop everything, and respond within 24 hours), telling the children they must move from the only home they've ever known when that's not true and has not been agreed to, defying court orders to pay child support (this is not revealed to the children, but in a secondary way it is, because this stresses out the custodial parent and renders her less able to be the stellar parent she used to be), favoring the older male child to the younger female child in front of the younger female child with things like presenting a $2000 check to the older child (for his camp), while simultaneously refusing to support the younger female child's soccer, and the like], then it's important that the judicial system force the wrong parent to compensate the loyal parent for the crimes the wrong parent perpetrated on the family system. (Not paying one's child support is a crime against the children.)
By and large, today's family law courts do not seek truth and they do not affect justice.
A terrible lesson for the children.
And one that deadens joy and hope for the future.
However, if the judicial system supported good morals and character, then children would learn the lessons taught to them throughout their early lives are clearly true and good, something that would create a deep sense of security, even when their own family falls apart.
I'm baffled why this doesn't happen, and why the courts, de facto, do the opposite - aid and abet the wrong doer, and cause the money to be drained away from the children, and into the pockets of the greedy lawyers.
Very thought-provoking
Some say that family law should never be handled in the adversarial legal system.
Instead wise judges should hear what is happening, get expert testimony that is capable of recognizing both psychopathology and right from wrong, and render decisions without the expense and time costs of standard court procedures.
That way courts could no longer be used as an expensive weapon for punishing the ex-partner.
Is there anyway this marriage
Is there anyway this marriage could have been saved? Claire's complaints are she married too young, would rather have freedom, act like a teenager, be more of a big sister instead of a parent...how does that work? Where is the maturity? Where is the responsibility to their children?
I am in the exact same boat? I married my wife when she was 18, pregnant with our first child and I was 28. Four kids later, she has left the reservation. Leaving the kids for me to raise, her to live like a teenager and she sees nothing wrong with her behavior. If it were only me and her, then I wouldn't be fighting to change her mind as I understand where she is at this stage of her life. But our children didn't ask to be born, didn't sign on for this and miss their Mother very much. She was a great Mother for 12 years, then she says "my eyes were opened" and she started cheating, and exhibitng all the behavior of a single woman in her late teens, early twenties. What can I or should I do to get her to snap out of it?
My heart goes out to you and your family.
The advice from the young man in my article would be "Let her have her freedom."
Keeping a not-yet-emotionally-ready-for-kids wife caged in a situation that her spirit does not want has many problems.
Do help your children understand their mother sympathetically. Do not let your anger at how she has let you and the children down impact your ability to encourage them still to love her.
At the same time, be sure that they understand that she left because she wasn't ready to be a mom, not because they are in any way undesirable kids.
Now, several years after the divorce in my article, the mom has begun to show increasing interest in her children. When she takes them for several hours, she also is more responsible with them that when she was younger. Most importantly, when she is with them now it is because she wants to be, not because she has to.
One way to keep yourself from villainizing your wife is to see your part in how the situation has unfolded. Unfortunately, when spouses have significant age differences like 18 and 28, the odds go up that they are emotionally at different developmental levels. That factor proved more potent than either of you probably predicted. As the elder in the relationship though, it's important for you to shoulder some responsibility for the premature pregnancy when she was emotionally unready.
Meanwhile, take good care of those kids....focusing on them rather than on their mom can help you to let go with regard to your loss.
Thank you for your response.
Thank you for your response. She has her freedom. Where are my kid's freedom to not be caged in a situation they did not choose? Their world has been turned upside down. Do you have any idea how hard it is to go from a two-parent home, with a great, stay-at-home Mom, no money problems to a single parent home, where the only parent in their life has to work a 40+ hour week and now doesn't have the time, energy or the finances to do many of the things that our kids used to enjoy? Why should there childhood suffer because their Mom's spirit is not yet ready, emotionally to be a Mother?
I am fully aware of my part in how this unfolded and I did shoulder my responsibility, I married her when she was pregnant, although I knew it would cage me and my freedom would suffer. But that wasn't on my mind, my child and her Mother were and I understood anything I was giving up was well worth having a family for!
I do not villainize her to our kids, although her actions have brought great harm to them, but it is my responsibility to teach them right from wrong and her behavior is wrong, is it not?
My original question was how do you get her to snap out of this selfish behavior? Not for me, I have let go of my loss, but for our kids. They haven't let go of their loss and do not understand why their Mom has checked out. How do I teach them personal responsibility and give their Mom a free pass from hers??
You can lead a horse to water....
As the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make her drink.
So in answer to your question of how to get your ex-wife to snap out of her selfish behavior vis a vis your kids, I'd suggest you invite her to events where she can see the kids at their best. If that doesn't tempt her to become more involved, her heart must be pretty hardened.
As to teaching your children responsibility, when they are old enough to understand, explain sympathetically their mom's abandonment probably stemmed from her difficulties as a child, and at the same time clarify that her choice to depart her parenting role is an out-of-bounds decision that hopefully they would never make with their own children.
Grow Up Already!
It's sad when parents have children when they either weren't ready to accept the responsibility or too immature to see past their own needs. In this case, Claire is completely selfish in her desires. It isn't her kids' fault that she had them, and yet they're the ones who will be doing without a mother while she runs off and pretends to be a kid herself. How can adults act this way? We're the ones who are supposed to take charge, be in control, take care of the children, and live responsibly. I have no patience for this woman and her "problems".
Very very sad
I had a case today where the mother ran off, and no one explained why to the chidlren. Their abandonment has haunted them throughout their lives: "What did I do wrong?" "If I had been more perfect, would she have left us?"....
At the same time, the mom was a terrible mother, much like the mothers in my two articles on "If your mother was borderline" ...
Probably the best is for someone else to take care of the children, like a kindly aunt, dad or grandparents, coupled with real talking with the kids, answering their questions, and caring for them as they work through their grief and anger.
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