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Sex on the First Date? Don’t Feel Ashamed

Despite women’s progress in shedding some of the shame attached to their sexuality, there is an over-arching message that many women have received, warning them “not to have sex on the first date or it will ruin your chances for a second date!” Read More

Some questions

Can this nonsensical conversation about self-esteem disguised as one about empowerment finally end? Can women and men stop writing articles that overgeneralize about the other sex and play to the lowest common denominator? It seems to me that doing something regretful that one already understands to be typically unacceptable and inappropriate, and later justifying the action to oneself citing independence and self-determination, is in the end a very immature and insecure way of acting. An honest relationship does not begin with sex, nor is it centered around it, and this is something that has been understood for generations. File this under "First World/Millennial Problems".

I find it extremely immature

I find it extremely immature and insecure. and sad.

Most guys wont respect a girl

Most guys wont respect a girl if she puts out too much or too easily. Sorry ladies, thats just the way that it is. Guys want to fool around, but, if a girl is in consideration for a girlfriend, he usually doesn't like a girl who is too easy. I know that women want to "think like men", but they do so at their own peril. Our brains work differently. Of course, there are exceptions, but this is my own observation over 40 years-boy and man of dealing with females and relationships.

Yeah, I don't know very many

Yeah, I don't know very many women who respect men that judge women for enjoying sex just as they do. How do you NOT see your hypocrisy? When a girl had sex with you on the first date, YOU were having sex with her too. You were just as responsible. Hope you didn't have children and poison them with this sexist bullshit. You and your dehumanizing values are a dying breed, thank God.

The author said nothing of

The author said nothing of how he felt, so you claiming hypocrisy seems inappropriate. He may feel just as disappointed in himself. Thus shame.
Society aside, there is still a biological bias urging men to scatter seed far and wide.
I agree with him. I see an easy woman as a less fit wife and mother. Before you claim sexism, I would also consider myself a less fit husband and father if I behaved the same way.
In my experience, I consider this a statistical truism.

statistical truism - baloney

There's also a biological basis for women cheating around the time of ovulation. Read the research.

I see an easy women as one who has become comfortable with sex, just like many men are. And thus she would be a good mother and companion because sex is likely to be an equal partnership rather than one where the woman fakes just to keep the marriage together.

I also find a man somewhat suspect if he doesn't have any sexual experiences before marriage. He could be OK, but I'd say statistically more likely to have inhibitions or low sexual desire, if not trying to suppress non-heterosexual desires.

not my experience

Your belief that men don't respect a woman who 'puts out' too easily does not match my experience at all. Maybe I just haven't had the misfortune to know very many men who thought of sex in terms of 'putting out.' What a lame conceptual framework.

But why?

Hello. You said: "Most guys won't respect a girl if she puts out too much or too easily." Right, but why? I'd bet it isn't the sex itself that's the issue, it's the deeper meanings behind her promiscuity and the hidden behavior warnings it conveys: a lack of judgment and discrimination; fear of not being accepted; desperation for a man, any man; insecurity; some abnormal inner emotional compulsion or problem--all of which are red flags to any normal guy who is looking for Ms. Right.

Women "thinking like men" is the real problem today. Women are so independent that they want to control not only their lives but men's, including the men they date. Therapists who write blogs like "Sex On The First Date? Don't Be Ashamed," only add to the problem by encouraging more female aggression, when they should be really taking a firm stand in behalf of pre-marital chastity. That is the way to true female empowerment, not turning women into mini-males in skirts. What man wants a woman who acts like a replica of himself, drinking, swearing, smoking, loud, loutish and tattooed up the wazoo? Men, I'd bet that's a real turnoff for you, whether you admit it or not.

The thing that draws the sexes together is differentiation, not similarities--and yet all the energy in therapeutic circles seems to be directed toward making women into something they are naturally not: remorseless hookups. Men, if you don't mind a woman who has bedded down every man she's dated, then you aren't seriously looking for a life mate, just a playmate. More power to you, but most women are looking for marriage eventually. When a man takes a woman's time, energy, love and caring for a short time only and then says, "So long, it's been fun"--it's not only humiliating and an affront to her dignity, it's a dastardly act.

REAL men will respect a no, and it's likely that many men who make sexual passes at women they barely know are not only surprised but even disappointed when the answer is yes. Women are confused by what's expected of them, and they've been poorly counseled by today's advisors--their parents, friends, role models and therapists. They have little confidence that they are enough as-is, and so cheapen themselves by acting sluttish. Less is more. Reality is, as you said, that men don't want women that say yes too easily. So ladies, start saying "no" and see how the quality of your dating life picks up.

Survey results

Somebody did a survey recently. They found that 34% of married couples had sex on the first date. Take from that what you will.

Successful Marriages?

Anonymous wrote:
Somebody did a survey recently. They found that 34% of married couples had sex on the first date. Take from that what you will.

34% of married couples doesn't mean 34% of successful married couples. Most if not all of those couples could've annulled after a few months, maybe even the next day.

not likely

Not likely because those who marry after having sex on the first date usually have been together for months by the time they get married. Probably few people who have sex on the first date get married the next day and annul on the third day. LOL

I did

I had sex on the first date with my future husband. Actually, it wasn't a date; it was a pickup in a bar. We've been married for over 20 years now.

I also had sex on the first

I also had sex on the first date with my husband. We'd been friends for a long time and things progressed very quickly once we began dating. He obviously wasn't offended since 3 months later we got married and 3 months after that we were pregnant. We just celebrated our 6th anniversary and have 2 beautiful kids.

Guilty as charged

I had sex on the first date. In fact it wasn't even a date, he just came over to my house to hang out. I didn't plan on sleeping with him that soon (trust me, not my style) but by the end of the night We both knew there was no reason to wait. Four years later we are planning our wedding and still head over heels in love.

overgeneralizing?

Who's overgeneralizing? "An honest relationship does not begin with sex"? Really? And this is something YOU have determined and know better than those who have sex on the first date? What is your theory as to why YOU think having sex on a first date automatically makes it a "dishonest" relationship? I'm really curious to know.

I know of several couples who had sex on the first date many years ago and they are still married and doing well.

Statistics aren't what they seem

Hello. Just because a couple who had sex on the first date, married and remain married after some years, does not necessarily indicate happiness. It could mean they stick together for reasons other than love, respect and trust. People who hate each other also remain married, you know. So, I'm not much interested in statistics on this issue, because stats don't convey what I'm really targeting, which is the nitty-gritty of what people REALLY feel about one another, deep down. And I think a woman who respects herself enough to delay sex, conveys to men that she is choosy and will not just offer herself to just any old Tom, Dick or Harry; therefore, a man can be reasonably sure if he marries her, he is getting some really special, with strong values, and that she will not be promiscuous with other men. A man who sticks by such a woman along the path to the altar is most likely truly in love with her, and isn't marrying her for specious reasons, but out of deep esteem and mature values. He is also likely to feel very deeply and maintain elevated levels of respect and confidence in her. She is that one-in-a-million that everyone wants, intriguing, not ordinary and he feels she is worth his time and energy, and worth doing anything in the world for. I'd sure like to think that my behavior inspires that level of "ultimate" feeling in men, wouldn't you?

Withholding sex is mere manipulation

Withholding sex is a common form of manipulation. If a cold and manipulative woman is what you're after then yes, you have a great strategy there.

I am a product of my

I am a product of my experiences. Every single woman that I have had sex on the first date with was having sex with other men too while they were dating me.

So it's a serious deal breaker for me. I don't even try to have sex with a woman on the first date. Then when I ask for a second date they accuse me of not acting like a man because I wasn't aggressive enough.

When a woman is sexually aggressive early with me. I don't call back. My lifes experiences tell me what that means. It means I will get cheated on.

I am just sick of all of it.

Really?

If sex on the first date is so repugnant for you, then why are you actively engaging in it? You'll take it if you can get it, and then dump your date afterward feeling entirely justified. That says everything about you and your values.

INTERESTING

It is interesting how his own behaviorial responsibility, repugnance and blame of violating his own core values is shifted to another person.

I am sorry, when I wrote that

I am sorry, when I wrote that this morning I was half asleep. My words didn't match my thoughts. After reading what I wrote again I can see that my context is wrong. Please forgive the confusion.

When I would have sex on the first date I was a younger man. I am quite a bit older now. I am not actively engaging in it any more because I have taken off my rose colored glasses.

To me when sex happens the relationship becomes automatically exclusive by default. No conversation about exclusive this and that.

Since I am a human being just like everyone else I have a right to feel the way I feel. Just like everyone else does. I have participated in forums on dating sites although I don't use them for dating. And the split about the exclusivity question seems to be right down the middle. Some only date one at a time and some date multiple people. (That particular discussion causes an extreme amount of unnecessary anger)

If I have sex with someone no matter when it happens first date or not then I am exclusive and it is by default. I know what will make ME happy. I have no right to tell any woman they can't sleep with another man after they have had sex with me but I do have a right to tell them to stay away from me because to me if they have sex with someone else then come back wanting sex from me again that is cheating.

I really don't care what they think about having to have some silly conversation about what exclusive means to them or when it becomes official. That is just silly high school stuff to me. I have a life to live and I know what it means to me.

I also agree with the author about not being ashamed of sex on the first date and I am not ashamed as no one should be. The author also talks about if "he" doesn't call back. Well let me tell ya there are way many more "shes" that don't call back. If the author is insinuating that women shouldn't be ashamed of sex on the first date then why doesn't she tell them not to be ashamed to make the call back instead of expecting the man to do it. Sounds like a cake and eat it too thing to me.

The point I was trying to make earlier was that sex on a first date is a giant red flag for a cheater in MY personal experience. That is what I am. I am a product of my lifes experiences. I think we all are.

I am sorry if I ruffled any feathers. But I am who I am and if some people don't like it then that's ok. We don't have to deal with each other. I am perfectly ok with myself and the way I feel about things. I really hope everyone is ok with who they are. There is no shame in knowing who you are. The shame is in not knowing then letting it all spiral out of control.

exclusivity

"To me when sex happens the relationship becomes automatically exclusive by default. No conversation about exclusive this and that."

"If I have sex with someone no matter when it happens first date or not then I am exclusive and it is by default."

I respect your opinion and your strong sense of self, but by saying that exclusivity is something that happens "by default", you are setting yourself up for disappointment. You have every right to become exclusive with someone after having sex- I am not challenging that- but if you don't verbalize to your partner that sex=exclusivity for you, they might simply just not know. In that case, they aren't "cheating" on you to be malicious or because they don't care; rather, they may not realize that you interpreted having sex as a next step from casual dating into exclusivity.

It seems that what you are talking about in your post is more of an issue of communication than an issue of whether or not to have sex on the first date.

you boxed yourself in

Neil, looks like you boxed yourself into a contradiction and you can't date anyone except virgins. Anyone who's not a virgin already and sleeps with you is by your definition breaking the exclusivity they automatically had with the last partner they slept with. So, by your definition, you can only sleep with cheaters or virgins.

complaining about cheating?

How can you even use the word "cheat" in context of a first and second date with someone? Your are not married, and you are not in an exclusive relationship at that point. How completely unrealistic and absurd.

There are supposed to be a fair number of women out there who don't believe in sex before marriage. Make that your first question and move on if the answer is no. Very simple.

complaining about cheating?

How can you even use the word "cheat" in context of a first and second date with someone? Your are not married, and you are not in an exclusive relationship at that point. How completely unrealistic and absurd.

There are supposed to be a fair number of women out there who don't believe in sex before marriage. Make that your first question and move on if the answer is no. Very simple.

Men's choices

I'm a guy. Sometimes I have "gasp" decided against sex on the first date or otherwise. Other times "gasp" I have enthusiastically participated. I don't think women who have sex on the first date are less desirable for long term relationships or marriage.

So what if a woman is having sex with other men while she was dating you? Her concept of dating and sexual exclusivity does not have to mirror yours. I know a lot of men who are not bashful about having sex with multiple women while casually dating -- so why should women be held to a different standard?

I don't think that sex on the first date predicts anything but good sexual chemistry. If you are drunk or impaired (or she is), you can put on the brakes my friend. I do.

One big reason I have for putting on the breaks is concern about consent. Drunk people do/may not have the ability to consent. So, if I'm intoxicated or the woman with whom I am with is, I generally won't have sex -- for my safety. Another reason is sincerity and a consensus on what is happening. If both partners agree on why the sex is happening and they both are ok with it, why the hell not have sex?

Women who follow "The Rules" about sex, tend to follow "The Rules" about other things. I am too old to worry about rules not imposed by governmental entities or consensually made by my partner and me.

I agree with the author. This no sex on the first date "Rule", in my view, is just institutionalized shaming. I agree with the author that it is long past time to do away with this formulaic nonsense.

Have sex (on the first date, later, constantly, upside down, in the kitchen, in the closet, or don't). Just don't try to shame others for making different decisions.

WHY?

-----" Every single woman that I have had sex on the first date with was having sex with other men too while they were dating me."

Then why did you participate in this behavior yourself? Why were you willing to violate your own core values?

Why would a man have sex on the first date?

giving in to your every

giving in to your every sexual whim is called IMPULSIVENESS, and it not only leads to guilt and shame, as it should, it leads to disrespect, unhealthy relationships, heartbreak, unwanted children and sexually transmitted diseases. Grow up, learn to delay gratification, and save it for marriage.

not so

Actually, these days many people have sex on the first date, enjoy it, don't get STDs, suffer no guilt or shame, and go on to have healthy respectful long-term relationships.

Sure, some people who have sex on the first date regret it. On the other hand, sex therapists often deal with couples who abstained until marriage, only to find out they couldn't turn off their feelings of guilt and shame about sex simply because their marital status had changed. In other cases, it turns out that one partner used abstinence-until-marriage as a cover for a sexual difficulty or to hide a complete lack of interest in sex.

In fact, these days so few people are virgins at marriage that in sheer bulk numbers, MOST successful marriages are still had by those who had sex before marriage.

Hooray for your comment!

It is so refreshing to find a few people who are willing to state the obvious--but which has become so controversial these days. Keep repeating it--this narcissistic generation that refuses to postpone any pleasure or desire needs to hear it!

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Suzanne Lachmann, Psy.D., is a clinical psychologist in NYC specializing in psychotherapy.

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