Just Looking, Lost in Fantasy, Lies About Age and 8 more types of heterosexual men you might find when looking for love online. Read More
I'd have to agree that Ms. Lachmann's list is pretty complete. I'd like to add on category. "Requires Labor". This Internet dater has needs. Something needs doing and a romantic interest might fit the bill. I've seen men who find themselves with custody of their children who think a new love interest might help with raising the kids, or babysitting duties. I've seen Internet daters with medical problems, scouring dating sites for nurses and those with medical training. These men aren't interest in getting to know a woman, just how quickly she can get to work.
The lowest was when I went on a first date where the man needed a website designed and wanted to know how quickly I could get started on the project. I was a little shocked at first so I told him my hourly rate and that what he wanted would probably cost about $5,000. He laughed and said he had no intention of paying, I was to create the website as a favor to him. Only afterward did I realize that he had honed in on my occupation which was the reason for his interest in me: Web developer.
I'm not trying to be a genderist here, I'm absolutely sure that women do the same thing. I haven't gone on any dates with women.
I had one guy tell me on our first meeting that he was in communication with 3 other women. Buh-bye!
You would be surprised how many men ask for an affair "nsa" yet expect the woman they are dating not to see anyone else. Works both ways dude.
Sorry but what was wrong with the guy communicating with three other women? (Apart from telling you about it of course.) What if your meeting hadn't have worked out and he'd given the other 3 the bum's rush because he thought you were The One, and he may have missed out on meeting someone else? In fact wouldn't that have set off alarm bells if he'd broken it off with everyone else he was communicating with, like a clingy stalker?
Personally, I am only dipping my toes in the water after a breakup of long-term relationship. Getting back out there so to speak. My date better be casting a wide net, at least until I decide I want to go forward. Any woman who thinks she is the only fish in the sea has very unrealistic expectations, and likewise for men. Very naive. My issue is that he would "tell" you that. I would assume he was talking to others unless asked for exclusivity, and his need to tell you is weird and raises red flags.
Some of these catagories are just made up -- they represent few men.
But, I take issue with #1 -- why do women authors and commentators berate shy, sexually unsuccessful men?
What do you care, you're not going to date them anyway?
Aren't these guys miserable enough without you psychobabble them as some kind of mutant diseased monsters?
I think shy men that lack confidence have become the whipping boys for angry women who are out to inflict pain on anything with a penis.
If you're not going to help these men, at least don't insult them, half of them are suicidal as it is --- that's just bullying.
I'm a married guy that likes to see if I can get a nibble on on-line dating, its fun and affirming.
What I have found is that I am happy that I'm married and that I don't have to date the angry rejects that haunt these websites.
These women are damaged beyond repair.
Does you wife know about your fun and affirming hobby of chasing other women on the Internet? Sounds like a standard #5.
If she doesn't know, you probably should tell her so she can plan accordingly.
I'll bet you're one of those angry plenty of fish women.
IF you think angry women are on the sites have you wondered about the men that made them angry? There are some kind & sensitive ppl getting hurt by those who are far from kind & caring. I've net only 2 men that really angered me. The rest were OK or better.
Therapy can help a man who's angry at women. Ever try it?
Hmmm....a man who admits that he sits around on online sites to see what "nibbles" he gets even though he's happily married (forgetting that the "fish" he's talking about are actual people) and then says that the women on online dating sites are damaged beyond repair. What's wrong with the logic?
You're assuming that these women are damaged by men -- they've damaged themselves and won't take the responsibility,
At first I really did want a relationship, but as Suzanne summed it up, I just became so caught in the number of people that I can talk to. Deep down I still do want to be in a relationship, but now whenever the opportunity arises, it becomes more of an issue of me being too scared to commit because I don't think I'm emotionally ready to handle being in a relationship. For reference, I'm a 20-year-old college student.
Well, as a man, I have to say this does sound like an angry women categorization.
I wish all men would just get off these sites. All it does is set them up for failure and rejection in most cases. I am sure there are well meaning women on line but I imagine most would fall into one of two categories.
The first category is called the gold digger. This one is self explanatory. There are some variations. Like some will settle for any man of means, sugar daddy or their own age. Another variation is that the guys need to be wealthy, well endowed, lots of hair on head, but none on body.
The second category is the I want a knight in shinning armor females. You know these kind. They may be hot or they may be not so attractive, and even overweight, but nonetheless they deserve the best. Phrases such as, tall dark and handsome are used. Or, if under 6'2" please don't bother.
In all seriousness I jest. But this angry women, I deserve the best, and most men are losers, stuff is wearing thin. Maybe women should just date women since only a handful of us guys are worthy.
What is disappointing is that I expect more substance in this type of article from someone with a PhD.
I wouldn't say this is an angry woman problem. There is a big difference between they way society treats female and male daters. Just like this post about problematic male daters, women are instructed to seek dates with men who will be good in long-term committed relationships. Men, many who are also seeking long-term committed relationships, are often only provided instructions and help with finding women to have sex and get laid. Hence, the wide range of pick-up artist sites available. Very little help is given to men who want to have successful relationships.
One could write an equally long post high-lighting 11 types of female Internet daters. I've seen my male friends use the Internet to find relationships with some very questionable women. One of my more conservative male friends dated a witch who was into crystals and spells. Another met and married the most boring woman on planet earth, a woman who didn't see the point in leaving the house. So there are many more categories beyond gold-digger.
It would be helpful to have some more information on how men can improve their dating skills and know how to spot trouble, rather than post after post offering women instruction on how they can avoid dating trouble with sub-par men.
I have been watching this convo play out and I think you raise a very fair point. I hope everyone remembers I write a blog, it is often opinion mixed with observation, but since I have a lot of people in my practice who are very enthusiastic about being there, both male and female, I think it affords me the opportunity to share my wisdom. I think you recognized that I said nothing disparaging about men in my article, nor do I disrespect or not like them. Rather, I respect and enjoy working with and understanding men. The larger problem is internet dating as a whole and what various groups of people choose to do with it. I will certainly consider a post about women and dating (not necessarily online) but who knows how the article or set of articles will take shape... Since I think your questions and thoughts are astute and well worth a response. Thanks for reading!
Share your wisdom...
...and when will be seeing some evidence of this alleged wisdom?
PS : stop censoring the comments, it just makes you look small and sensitive.
Actually, I kind of agree with you: this is far and away NOT my favorite Lachmann post. But it sounds like even she's apologizing for the list in her intro. Take a look through the archives and you'll find some wisdom. Peace.
You neglect to mention your sample is biased to NYC where the single female:male ratio is 4:3, and that it's the only place where this is so.
There are a few other metro areas where the ratio is above 1, but in most the rest of the country it's flipped the other way around. National census figures show there are roughly four never-married men aged 35-39 for every three of there female counterparts.
Completely invert your picture and you come up with a valid picture for everyone NOT in NYC.
People in bubbles never realize they're in them.
The Great American Man Shortage (Novak, 1983) turned 30 this year. Feminism blew up heterosexuality in the mid-70s, and even an injection of full strength funk during the disco era couldn't revive the patient; HIV/AIDS hit in 1981-2 and finished it off. By the late 80's the shrieking from women really started, and Wendy Dennis was writing Hot and Bothered.
By then it was clear women had gone completely insane and were never coming back, so men became unwilling to invest more than the absolute minimum in any of them. That's how it all fell apart. I was there and saw the whole thing happen.
If people ain't comin' to the ballpark, how ya gonna stop 'em?
After 500 contacts with these online women between us, my fellow psychologist friend and I estimate that 50-80% of the women online have a combo of roadblocks which make them poor long term relationship choices. Over 90% of these women have been married and have kids, so it's non issue of being forever single.
Often, these are interesting women with great careers, hobbies, interests, intelligence, travels, etc. They've explored spirituality and turned to yoga and meditation. Solid values, caring.
What usually accompanies this is excess emotional baggage. A combination of unresolved core childhood issues
coupled with 1 or more dysfunctional, unhealthy intimate relationships.
THE BASIC ROADBLOCKS
TOO BUSY, OVER BOOKED, CHAOTIC LIFE. I've had several women cancel dates on the day of the date, as they site these factors.
OVER INVOLVEMENT WITH FAMILY, PETS, FRIENDS.
UNFOCUSED SO THE MAN DOESN'T GET PRIORITIZED TO SEE.
FLAKINESS, UNRELIABLE, UNDEPENDABLE.
POOR CONVERSATIONALISTS, AS THEY ASK JUST BASIC QUESTIONS AND SAY THE MINIMAL WHEN ASKED.
TOO SERIOUS MINDED SO LACKING PLAYFULNESS AND A
SENSE OF HUMOR.
TOO PICKY WITH UNREALISTIC EXPECTATIONS. SHOPPING LISTS ARE FOR SHOPPING NOT MATE SELECTION.
STRESSED OUT, OVERWHELMED WITH THEIR LIVES.
MEDIOCRE TO POOR DIET CONTRIBUTING TO EXHAUSTION AT NIGHT, LOW SEX DRIVE, AND SLEEP PROBLEMS.
THE DEEP ROADBLOCKS
SELF ABSORBED, SELF CENTERED WITH MANY I STATEMENTS.
MAJOR CHARACTER FLAWS LIKE EMOTIONAL IMMATURITY.
COOL/COLD HEARTED SO LACKS WARMTH.
DISTRUSTFUL, DEFENSIVE, GUARDED, SUSPICIOUS.
FEAR OF INTIMACY. After we got involved, I've had 4 women tell me this and they couldn't handle the emotional closeness.
LOW SELF ESTEEM + SELF CONFIDENCE, INSECURE.
TOO ANXIOUS, SOMETIMES PARANOID AND DELUSIONAL.
Wow, talk about lists! You might try going overseas. I hear they are less damaged, and only want the lifestyle and security you can provide. In exchange, they luv you forevah.
Well I'm overseas in Hawaii, and really don't want to go farther away. Are you overseas and have you found a satisfying relationship?
I would suggest you look inward. I have actually pulled some of the above stunts just to lose a guy I was not interested in who would not leave me alone. It was easier to appear flaky, etc. than "hurt his feelings" because he would not take no for an answer.
About your long list of women's issues, in particular, their busy lives and "the man not getting prioritized"
It can be difficult to justify prioritizing a man, or many men, while dating. Many of these women used to prioritize men, or a particular man, without hesitation. Then they realized it was an investment that didn't reap much in the way of rewards - psychologically, spiritually, physically, sexually, logistically, economically. For a lot of women (and men for that matter), they realize it's a better investment to prioritize other things, other activities, other necessities, other people, where the payoff is real, valuable, necessary, rewarding.
Busy people go online to date because it seems like a quick and efficient way to see what's available without wasting too much time. unfortunately, busy people can find 100 reasons not to bother going out on a date with a stranger. They start to ask themselves... How lonely am I , really? Maybe it would be far more fun to have a drink with friends I know, than spend an hour making small talk with a stranger. Getting older, there only so much energy and effort people want to put out there. Both genders are TIRED. And everybody wants chemistry, or an easier life, ideally both. Really hard to find both.
May I suggest an alternative to internet dating. Learn to dance! It's more effective if your primary intent is not to meet someone but rather to enjoy the dance. A few rounds around the ballroom floor will provide more insight into you intended than any website. Even if never find your soul mate you'll have more friends, confidence and improved fitness.
MOST OF THE PROFILES WOMEN POST ARE LIKE SHOPPING LISTS; AS IF LIFE WAS LIKE GOING TO SAM'S CLUB. THEN THERE ARE OTHERS WHO YOU TAKE ONE LOOK AT, AND SAY: "SHE IS HIGH MAINTENANCE". I AM 65, SO MY RANGE IS 55-70. MANY WOMEN ARE WIDOWS, AND I WONDER IF THEY'RE JUST LONELY. OTHERS, THE HIGH MAINTENACE ONES, YOU CAN TELL OFF THE BAT, FAKE BLONDE HAIR, THE PLASTIC SURGERIES, THE EXPENSIVE CLOTHES, RATTLING ON ABOUT VACATIONS TO FAR AWAY PLACES. I AM A SENIOR ON A FIXED INCOME, IT SO HARD TO FIND SOMEBODY REAL ON THESE WEBSITES! THIS IS ESPECIALLY TRUE HERE IN SOUTH FLORIDA, VERY PLASTIC. I WONDER IF ITS ANY DIFFERENT IN OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY. I HAVE ONE BIG THING WORKING AGAINST ME, I AM SHORT, ONLY 5 FT 7IN. WOMEN LIKE TALL GUYS, EVEN THOUGH IN LAW ENFORCEMENT AND IN THE MILITARY SOME OF THE BIGGEST COWARDS I SAW WERE TALL GUYS. I HAVE TO START AT AROUND 4 FT.10 AND WORK MY WAY UP. THEY CANCEL AT THE LAST MINUTE. I AM GETTING VERY DISCOURAGED AND DEPRESSED ABOUT THE WHOLE THING. GETTING OLD CAN BE A DRAG, AND THE FUNNY THING IS, I DON'T EVEN LOOK MY AGE, GO FIGURE. MY SELF ESTEEM IS STARTING TO TAKE A SHELLACKING.
Hi John. I've read the article and the comments and just had to share my thoughts after I read your comment about height. I don't know if it will help but I can tell you from experience, a true, good woman will not reject you because you are 5' 7"...which is not short. I met a wonderful man online and we dated for 16 months. He was my height, 5' 6", and I grew to love him dearly. His height was never an issue. I would've spent the rest of my life with him but, sadly, he had other personal issues that he had trouble working through so he ended it. Don't give up. There are real women out there.
South Florida isn't for someone like you. If you can relocate that would increase your chances. Maybe do some investigating into other places.
I would suggest that you get active in your community, church singles groups, volunteer groups where there are usually many retired women. Update your look, your hair, etc. Ask a younger female friend for honest feedback. You will meet a nice lady who once she gets to know you will not care how tall you are or your age. You are correct that your height will work against you in online dating. Also your age unless you are wealthy. Just being honest. You are better off meeting women IRL (in real life).
Why is South florida not for John? I have been in S FL for more than 5 yrs and do wonder who it's for. Maybe bc he doesn't like phonies? There are nice people in S Fl. Some can be slightly phony. They won't be your best friend, thankfully. I'm a 43 year old woman & wonder if someone who doesn't wear makeup or look for money can make it here. I don't date a lot. I work, take care of my children , have a hobby and have always been shy and only slightly attractive. Any thoughts?
Since everyone seems to agree that there are people using internet dating who are married and just looking for flings, single looking for a hookup, single and looking for a relationship, older looking for younger and younger looking for older, and this exists in both genders there should be someone for everyone. The problem is that when everyone lies or hides their true desires someone's needs don't get met.
To the man who lies about his age to get a younger woman don't lie just specify that you want someone in whatever younger age range you want - there are women who don't mind age differences. same is true for women and younger men.
To the married man who likes to flirt online there are women who might like to flirt back if for no other reason than to test or sharpen their flirting skills. Why waste the time of women or are seriously looking for a relationship - that's mean, inconsiderate and really shows a lack of character. Plus if you have this need to flirt - try flirting with your wife - it might put a spark back in that relationship.
The main point is just be honest and you just might get what you're looking for, whatever that may be.
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Suzanne Lachmann, Psy.D., is a clinical psychologist in NYC specializing in psychotherapy.
It can take a radical reboot to get past old hurts and injustices.