Maybe It's Just Me, But...

Another thought provoking post!

It seems to me that a person can love two people only if those two people don't know about each other! To me that's the proof that cheating is wrong - it requires deceit. Once everyone involved has the same information....well, can the situation persist openly? I doubt most would.

Yes, everyone can be happy in these type of situations. But based on my experience and the experience of those around me, my philosophy is "whatever works."

Each relationship is different. Different people, different needs and wants, different circumstances. It's not really possible to answer in detail a question based on hypothetical circumstances. It would depend upon the specifics of the situation and the individuals involved.

However, it can work and most definitely does work for many people.

If we say 'yes' to love, we stand a good chance of our decisions leading us closer to the place we want and need to be. When that happens, everyone benefits.

- B

I'm in a very high-contact relationship with a married man with whom I work. The relationship started a year ago when he relocated for the job and his family stayed behind to finish out the school year. We spent a lot of time together then and became very close. I assumed the relationship would plateau, or even diminish in intensity, after his family joined him, but that has turned out to not be the case. We spend pretty much every spare minute together at the office...lunch together almost every day, lots of time in his office talking about work and non work things, a drink or two after work. We flirt incessantly and laugh even more than that. I have been trying hard to figure out whether this relationship is an "emotional affair" (we've never even kissed...no sexual contact at all) and if it is, what to do about it if anything (I should have mentioned I am single.) I think with this post you helped me see that it probably is. I know for a fact he's lying to his wife when we go out for a drink or the occasional (rare, really) dinner and probably says nothing about all the time we spend together during the day. She once saw one of my texts to him and asked if we are having an affair...I've gotten him to now delete texts (which I consider fun but harmless though I'm sure his wife wouldn't.)
My struggle to "define" this as an emotional affair stems from what you say about this relationship not taking anything away from his marriage - he goes home on time every night, and we have no contact (other than occasional work emails) on weekends. I have no real insight into the "emotional quality" of their marriage, so it's hard for me to know whether the emotional investment he's made in our relationship has had any impact on their relationship, but I have to assume I'm filling some space, need, whatever that is unfilled there.
I am fairly certain he thinks our relationship is perfectly fine and morally acceptable since there's no sex. I'm not so sure...

I have a friend who is in a committed relationship. She is a woman that I have worked with in the past. We have been friends for few years now and her current relationship started a couple of years before our friendship. Over time, that friendship has grown exponentially, to the point where we flirt lightly, have dinner together, movies, etc.,text message almost every single day, hardly missing a full week or full day without contact. We've even spent the night together and she's stayed over at my place until the far reaching hours of the night (without a single kiss or inappropriate action EVER,even after heavy drinking). There have been a few ocassions where her beau has questioned my presence, to the point where she negates or minimizes the true extent of our relationship; sometimes neglecting to admit that she's with me, even when i'm standing right next to her. Would this constitute as emotinal cheating? And what is your take on her spending so much time with me, if she's with someone else? I have no real reason to believe that she's falling out of love or falling in love with me (and she is clearly in love with him), and though I care for her dearly; heck, I'm certain I'd make a much better boyfriend if we took it there, I don't feel a compelling need to "sweep her off her feet", and I'm certainly not falling for her. What does that say about our ability to fulfill our needs for one another? Why would she need a friend like me if she's in this "fulfilling" committed relationship? Should I continue to be her friend if she's having her cake and eating it too? I want to be a good friend but i also want to spend my time wisely...
Thoughts appreciated.

First of All, Thank you very much for your your timely response...

My presumption of her being in love with her boyfriend stems from her commitment to being with him, despite a number of challenges that they've faced. She has sacrificed countless aspects of her lifestyle (including her sexuality, in the wake of his decision not to be physical until they married, which I'm guessing, he assumes will be the case). I mean, she really has displayed a level of commitment that is unparalleled by most people today. I'm convinced that she's serious about holding on to it.

-I do want to add that our relationship developed much before the withdrawal of the physical aspect of her relationship, so I do not think that she has an ulterior motive to fulfill that aspect, at least I'm not convinced as to that being the stronger motif. Have we flirted? certainly...who doesn't? but it's been years and we've never made a move.

I honestly do think my time would be spent exploring other women, particularly single women. It's a frustrating situation because I"m in the process of building a business and it would be nice to have someone at my side, but the person who seems to take the most interest in me is someone who already belongs to someone else. I'm upset that she fits the bill of the (close to) perfect woman but she already has someone. We used to engage in dialogue about "can men and women really be friends". I still don't know the answer to that. I just feel like i'm wasting time fulfilling an aspect of a woman's life that her boyfriend isn't and should be. And I fear being the one who calibrates her emotionally, only for her to go right back to the void in the first place. I fear being used (inadvertently) as an escape. I know i'm better than that, better than an escape, I feel like I am THE prize. Even though she knows I'm a prize, I can't help but feel like her "escape". I usually implement distance but we somehow end up right back in it. I feel like it would be easier if she would just choose ONE of us.

For the record, she is aware of how I feel, but contends that "we're just friends and have an awesome thing going". Which is true. I'm just struggling to understand her motivation.

(Sorry)
She frequently comments about how he's allowed her to be more emotional, how to love, how to care, how to take time and precision with things. I think he's certainly created an atmosphere of trust,but more importantly, the benefits of commitment, something that has not been the case in her previous relationships and certainly not a widespread facet expressed by men. It's a pretty significant change for her.

I think I will begin to withdraw as I have before; that saying is all too true in this case: "when you chase people, they run". I really do think that our relationship is unique and i often enjoy it. But in the grand scheme of things, I don't want to feel like i'm contributing to another man's "success" indirectly, if he's somewhere, somehow,the source of her unhappiness.

In regards to me seeing other women, she's fine with it (so to speak) but I noticed that she does ask alot of questions as to what my preferences are, what i'm looking for, what my ideal wife would be, and even hypotheticals as to whether or not i perceive her as someone i'd be with if she weren't in a relationship.

(Nine months into a relationship with a friend I had known for years before.) I stopped pushing the thought "He loves her equally to me" to the back of my mind. The thought had been there for a couple of months, but I felt as if there was no proof, no reason to bring it up.

"If your partner values exclusivity and monogamy, you are cheating him or her out of an aspect of your relationship that your partner holds dear, whether he or she is aware of the other relationship or not."

It took me a while to finally face thoughts like this, and to clarify what was happening. I knew why he felt guilty about telling me when he spent time with this other woman, but I didn't want him to think I was accusing him of being unfaithful (Inadvertently, he caused me to feel responsible for his emotions towards the woman).

Still, I made my choice. I knew that his feelings for this woman were not my responsibility. But I could not stop questioning whether or not my actions were justified, whether or not his feelings for her were worth the damages and the losses in our own relationship.

Then I happened to look at your blog, and it was as if my thoughts were pieces of a puzzle that you solved. I realized, his weight of the relationship was not balanced to mine, and although his time was spent mainly on me, I was being "cheated" by that imbalance he caused with his feelings for another woman. Inequity doesn't cut it for me. I realized, I deserve better.

Thank you for putting my thoughts together.

Hi Mark,
I just ordered your Batman & Philosophy: The Dark Knight of the Soul on Amazon :)

I'm a 25 year old single male who has never been in a relationship.
I find this post interesting because I have , in the past gotten close to women I came to care about (also, I'm abstinent - I've chosen to remain so until I find the right person, so none of my interactions with women in the past or at present have been/are of a sexual character)...deeply at that.
While I chose to be affectionate in a fraternal manner with one person, and was protective/parental with another...I was deeply disturbed when both women (at different points in time), started twisting the nature of the friendship to fulfil their emotional needs/whatever.
Given that I'm somewhat black & white in how I define relationships...I found it unacceptable that someone I regarded as a sister could use me as a boyfriend-surrogate (perhaps unconsciously...I am not blaming anyone)...and chose to withdraw from this person in toto. To give an example...this person moved into the same residential complex I was in and I was stressed out for a few months. A year before that she had asked me to move in with her - sign her residence contract and all that BS...which was when I *woke up*.

The other girl was in trouble over an engagement forced on her by her parents, and harassment at the hands of a male *friend* etc...and I felt protective about her as one would about one's child (I was 22 then - I'd already spent a few years trying to come up with a defensible philosophy of life, and of enlightened love for all beings - in short, I was mildly cuckoo...and I wanted to go out and be there for people...still do, but am lightyears away from that sentimental young bloke I used to be).
It went south...I realised that this person was trying to meet her emotional needs and one day one of her friends told me something that contradicted something she had told me about her parents.

I like keeping things simple and straightforward...(in fact, one reason I suck at the dating game is that I don't play it at all. I'm a scientist...and I'd rather find someone I can devote myself completely to and get on with life, than be caught up in emotional entanglements that can totally drain a person.

No...I don't have any problems at the moment - and I'm not seeking counsel...I just thought I'd share this info after reading your post and the comments above.

Btw...neuroscience would say that it is impossible to *be in love* with two people at the same time...I am sure you've heard of her work...I'd recommend that you read up on the neuroscience of romance, attraction and relationships...esp work by Prof.Helen Fisher.

I do think men and women can be friends, and that love divorced from the need to find a mate, is possible.

I don't want to present this as an argument (esp to a professional philosopher...)
perhaps the solution lies in realising that *Love* is about giving...and not receiving? (Sure giving in any form will also cause dopamine bursts in the brain...but if one were to divorce one's affection from the desire for any sensory or social gratification and if one were to avoid such things even if they came one's way...there wouldn't be anything wrong with *loving* more than one person, as far as I can tell.
It's when self-interest and *needs* come in that things get messy.

BW

Infidelity is one of the signs of mental illness,just to let you know.

Fun post.