Sex at Dawn

Exploring the evolutionary origins of modern sexuality.
Christopher Ryan, Ph.D. is co-author of Sex at Dawn: The Prehistoric Origins of Modern Sexuality (HarperCollins 2010). See full bio

Comments on "An Inconvenient Truth: Sexual Monogamy Kills Male Libido"

An Inconvenient Truth: Sexual Monogamy Kills Male Libido

For most men in long-term sexually monogamous relationships, a steady decrease in libido is inevitable, regardless of the particular woman in their lives. That’s right. The sexually-monogamous husband of the hottest woman on earth will start to lose interest at a certain point. Uma, it’s not your fault!

You want an inconvenient truth? Try this one: human beings are clearly evolved for sex lives featuring multiple simultaneous sexual relationships. Read More

"Our research suggests that

"Our research suggests that the age of the other woman is unimportant; it is her otherness that matters."

I'd be interested in reading this research. It would more sense for both to matter. This would be strongly suggested by research indicating men's powerful attraction to youthfulness. Notice the ages of porn stars, escorts, and rape victims alike -- they tend to skew pretty young. Variety ("otherness") in itself is important, of course, but I think the typical 50 year old man would be more excited by sex with e.g. an 18 year old woman than a 50 year old.

longterm relatioship/monogomy

If the truth be known women go through the same thing. After years and years of really good sex with my partner I lost interest but still loved him. An occasional fling is good for my own libido! Practice safe sex and all is well. and sex with my partner sparks again. I thought something was wrong with me until this article. So women are experiencing the same phenomona.

Reply to Suv

You're right that it's probably an overstatement to say that "age is unimportant" and we've corrected the text accordingly. Thanks for noting that. Still, while age is undoubtedly "a" factor, we think it's a mistake to think that the "otherness" of the "other woman" is less important than that she be younger. Among primates, for example, older, MILF-type chimps are often more attractive to males (including high-ranking males) than the young & nubile types. This suggests that something (proven mothering abilities? experience? sense of humor?) enters into the attractiveness quotient in a way that contemporary human popular culture and evolutionary psychology both fail to reflect.

As Shakespeare wrote in I

As Shakespeare wrote in I Prithee Get Thee, Sucka: "How unjust thy word 'just.'"

AGE AS A FUNCTION OF ATTRACTIVNESS

The general assumption is that it’s perfectly natural for older men to be drawn to younger women. However, I would suggest that such pairings are perfectly unnatural…that they are, in fact, the result of older males having been frustrated and fixated during a much earlier stage of their psychosexual development.

To my mind, the bald tycoon with a bit of eye candy on his arm and the wizened geezer driving a convertible are both examples of males stuck in their late adolescence. Hugh Hefner never looks quite so much like a troll - and I’m sure is never quite so worn and weary - as when he’s teamed with a mob of cheer leaders. How can anyone see this as normal?

It’s normal only because the vast majority of males in our culture are stunted early in life. Fast cars and fast women come only with success and that comes only with age. Sixty something magnates who pursue twenty something fluff do so mostly because it’s only just then become attainable. A stage of life never lived is a stage never outgrown. Think about that.

Because I had many sex kittens in my teens and drove convertibles in my twenties, maturation came naturally. It was career women and roadsters in mid life and now I adore senior ladies and use a sedan to get from here to there - which usually isn’t very far. The idea of a Playboy Playmate for my next birthday party is about as appealing as a twelve year old…even if she has the well-kept body of a ten year old.

Personally, I have the most in common with (and hence am the happiest with) people my own age. I can take a fleeting interest in my granddaughter’s day at school and I can feel limited sympathy for my grandmother’s aches and pains but when it comes to a truly intimate encounter, they must at least hum recognizable tunes in the shower.

Love isn't Sex

As a monogamous male for many years, my experience would tend to support the concept that frequent sex and meaningful conversations with an individual to whom you are devoted are the ideal. Unfortunately, neither are guaranteed.

When both are present in a relationship, the multi-dimensional joy the partners receive, I suspect, far surpasses the physical fireworks that might be delivered by a new, younger or multiple partners. Perhaps I've either been brainwashed or I'm lazy, but it's easier trying to make sense of the universe with the needs and sensitivities of only one other complex human to consider.

A mutual oneness can be deeper and more exciting than Hugh Hefner's multiple cheerleaders. Ugh! But then, I must admit that I've never fully understood the attraction most guys seem to feel to watch an unartful, bored stripper perform at bachelor parties and other male-dominated events.

Of course, my analysis is based on "the ideal" of an exclusive relationship and that occurs only sporadically. It represents neither my own nor any one else's daily experience.

So what does this mean for

So what does this mean for us women?

"Our apologies for not

"Our apologies for not explaining here why/how this applies more to men than to women, but it is far too involved for this blog entry. If readers are interested, we'll explain in a subsequent entry"

I would love you to post a subsequent entry about this!

evolution

its sad to think that men have stopped evolving.
I personally think that its just a matter of social evolution. We are no longer apes and I do have hopes that we are constantly evolving to something less like an Idiocracy.

This seems like biology is

This seems like biology is being exploited to justify old promiscuous guys sleeping with young women. What about the biology of sexual peaks? If women peak sexually in their mid-30s, and men peak sexually around 20, then biology suggests that evolution designed men to sleep with older women if they want a partner well-matched in libido. Hmmm, how to separate cultural trends from evolutionary ones?

wait a minut

this article is just as confusing as interesting. so if humans are made to have more than one sexual partner than our whole society views and it's law's are incorrect. for example having sex with someone else whie married is illegal(adultry) and if a girl cheets on her boyfriend or the other way around, it is considered socially incorrect. well atleast for women because most men are supportive of the fact that having many girls puts you on top of the game a "pimp" or watever.

if this article was to be spread out more you know on the media and stuff, i believe it will destroy the very rigid social laws just as well as the judicial laws that we have set for ourselves. almost like a sexual revolution. i personally am only 17 years old and i understand the article its self but just the fact that it destroys all the social expectations that i, just as well as every other teen has been trying to live up to astonishes me. in a way it's a releif an opprotunity to breakthrough these rigid social "rules" that have been driving me crazy my whole life. but think about it. if this idea was accepted and changed our social values, i wont have to be so angry at the fact that it's ok for a guy to cheet ona girl and look like a king but when the girl was to do the same (and now according to the atricle), what we were biologically built for we are looked upon as sluts and whores. this break through will bring equality to both men and women relationship wise.

Stephanie, Welcome to the

Stephanie,

Welcome to the real world. Your comment made me laugh and feel sad at the same time.

I'm ten years older than you, and like you, I've always felt that the expectation of monogamy was an unduly heavy constraint. I'm now living with three men, one of whom is my boyfriend, but I regularly sleep with the other two. An arrangement like ours is unusual, but not unheard of.

I just want to tell you that you don't have to put up with people who will think you're a slut if you sleep around, and that monogamy is not your only hope to happiness and a fulfilling relationship. The truth is, people have known for a long time that monogamy isn't what nature intended, but they choose to ignore it because the pressure of culturally ingrained ideals is just too much.

I suggest you read "The Ethical Slut" if you're interested in having loving, meaningful relationships without the burden of monogamy. (Instead, you get the burden of jealousy and juggling several lovers at once. Good luck with that. lol)

Your comment made me laugh

Your comment made me laugh and sad at the same time. So you're a slut. That's fine with me, because you're welcome to be whatever you like. I haven't read Ethical Slut but being a slut, male or female, is wrong no matter how you put it. No read can justify being one. Just because doing something makes you happy does not make it right. There's something called morality and everyone should have some. Don't delude yourself.

That being said, I need a roomie. Looking for another?

Request for information

Please give me a link to the article/book The Ethical Slut. I am working through this process and looking for some research material to read. Thanks,
E

Ethical Slut

Just go to Amazon.com and do a search. They've got it. A google search will also take you to the authors' web page. You might also want to check out a book called The Lifestyle, by Terry Gould, which is a very good examination of the swinging sub-culture in the U.S.

Re: This seems like biology is

In response to Jen's post:

Younger women are generally more sexually attractive to men because this is when (teens-twenties) they are in optimal condition for child bearing. The time
at which they reach their sexual peak does not determine when they are most attractive to the opposite sex (likewise with men).

Cheating is Depression,Depression is mental illness

I'm not interested in other women except my wife,i've been married for 14 years,but then again i don't have a mental illness also known as depression.I'm sure Cacilda and Christopher fully understand this illness which make people cheat but from this post you would never know they have a clue. Sincerely-David Petropoulos

Thank you for noting that a

Thank you for noting that a lack of sexual intimacy is not always linked to a lack of any kind of intimacy. That bit of "common sense" gets throw around a lot, and it's just not true.

My man doesn't put out anymore, but he loves me and I love him, and we cuddle and hug a lot, and kiss and talk and I have no problem with him being the way he is. (He's not interested in other women either, btw, though he looks at porn.)

This was a very sensible article, though clearly not all the commentators here are willing to learn. I look forward to your book now.

You don't find it strange

You don't find it strange that a guy will not "put out" but do watch porn?

Men craving for younger women (psycho Paedopile)

I beleive men who craves for younger women are little paedopilic in their sexual urges...also the violentic attitudes and frustrations within themselves that spoils them the whole personae...the energy level variations of younger to older or vice versa...is not the same and causes more imbalance...that may guarantee his collapse as well...

Usually happens with unfufilled desires/dreams

Justifying the need/craving for younger women is just unfulfilled desires/dreams that grows at the age of senility, messing the whole persona of the men again imbalancing themselves on the verge of confusion and danger. Also men are responsible for the herpes & sexually transmitted diseases as well...
sexual energy is not the same between men and women even thou women are much stronger in performance...the psycho effects of changes usually brought by socio environment factors of the societal impact in every culture...sexual thinking has cultural influence in doing what's and whatnot's...

Like the law says for every action there is a reaction I would say for every conscious action there is positive reaction...

-Sue

Sue, obviously you have a

Sue, obviously you have a chip on your shoulder about males. I have been married over 20 years; I love my wife and have been totally monogamous, but the fact is that males cannot help thinking about or looking at other females.

It has nothing to do with society; it has everything to do with biology. Case in point, on 99% of computers that I fix for males, there is residual sexual porn. This does not matter if the male is 15 years old or even (really) 90! And yet, when I repair PCs for females, there is no sexual porn, yet on about 99% of them, there is residual "shopping porn" -- lots of pictures of handbags, shoes, dresses, cruises, etc. -- far more items than could ever be accumulated in a lifetime.

Both of these represent unfulfilled desires. Society bashes the males' desires, yet glorifies the females' desires. Ultimately, can we really say which is more destructive? I can make the case that overconsumption has been a bigger detriment to American society in the last 20 years than sexual consumption.

Don, Overconsumption is

Don,
Overconsumption is overconsumption - be it material or sexual. The sad truth is that there are men and women who are not as faithful as you; they betray themselves and their significant others by participating in more than just harmless looking. (Is it really harmless when you consider the feelings of your significant other?)
I found this article interesting however I would also like to find out if they have studied the affects of multiple pairing - how could one person - male or female - possibly keep their multiple partners happy? It's an endless quagmire of who said what and when? "Didn't I tell you I love you today?"
HA!!
Thanks for letting me think a bit today.

That’s a bit of an

That’s a bit of an overgeneralization, my computer has plenty of porn. And you don’t even have to look for residues. It’s right there in the movie folder under 'porn".

There has been a lot of male

There has been a lot of male bashing going on, i for one would like to hear about the women that have been missed out in this article, it can't all just be men.

I personally am in a long term loving relationship, but before reading this article i understood that he was going to look at other women and porn, i have no problem with this, as long as i don't see him doing it, or see the pictures and films that he has, that just makes me a tad uneasy. I know that at some point he will become uninterested, not because he doesn't love me but because of the whole "boys will be boys" thing, i just have to find different ways to keep him interested.

Going back to what has been previously said, men have other desires, i haven't seen any other men that i am in any way interested in, but i sure as hell have had very graphic dreams that do not include him.

"You're right that it's

"You're right that it's probably an overstatement to say that "age is unimportant" and we've corrected the text accordingly. Thanks for noting that. Still, while age is undoubtedly "a" factor, we think it's a mistake to think that the "otherness" of the "other woman" is less important than that she be younger."

You're welcome, and I didn't mean to imply that otherness is unimportant. My point is that youthfulness and otherness are not mutually exclusive in this regard - both can be important.

"Among primates, for example, older, MILF-type chimps are often more attractive to males (including high-ranking males) than the young & nubile types."

Perhaps, but what applies to chimps does not necessarily apply to human beings. The differences between primate species can be tremendous. A little genetic disparity can go a long way. Humans are far more neotenous, for example.

hmmm

I think that it is sexually very hard to be in a long term mono relationship for males AND females. It seems to me that it is generally accepted that males crave other sexual partners more than females do in the same type of long term relationships. I find however that all the females i know of express the same desire to have other sexual partners, to attain novelty sex. I believe that with open communication a couple can reach an agreement about how fulfill this sexual need, providing that they have similar needs in this area. The main guild lines would be that A) the sexual partner(s) would have to be someone neither of you (or any of your acquaintances) knew, ideally the sex would occur on a solo vacation B) the sexual partner would have to be different each time to avoid becoming emotionally involved or attached, this is especially important for women as they become emotionally attached through sex easily C) both partners would need to have equal frequency of outer relationship sexual encounters.
The only thing that would prevent this from occurring smoothly would be JEALOUSY! I have no idea how one could actually be OK knowing that their current partner actually had sex with another woman/man who may have been-UGH- more physically beautiful!! or -OH NO!- the sex may have been MIND BLOWING and PASSIONATE! And what if after the encounter your partner came back to you and you were having sex and then-OH GROSS- they have a new sexual move or look in their eye- and you can't help but wounder if when they close their eyes in pleasure if they are picturing that smoking hot encounter they had!
I don't see that there is a clear cut answer or a one size fits all here

Maybe the libido goes down so the man can stay monogamous

and focus on other aspects of his life... like the kids he might have had with his woman.

Libido is for procreation, the next logical step in maintaining the 'creatures' alive by providing for them and helping them grow in hope that they will do the same.

Who said libido has to be high all the time???

The monogamy phallacy

If there were no negative consequence (e.g. possible disease transmission, impregnation, societal disapproval) human beings (male and female) would being having sex with one another as casually as they presently have conversations. Regarding age differentials, I've always preferred woman that are about 50 years of age - so long as there is a modicum of self-care regarding their appearance. "Hard bodies" don't do a thing for me. I have always preferred a few wrinkles and some experience. This is as true now at age 54 as it was at age 15. Anybody got a diagnosis for that? Or maybe its just nature's way of easing the human population explosion. a few of us just don't want to replicate. There are other ways to experience meaning in life. Amen.

Re: Age

Stephen:

"The general assumption is that it’s perfectly natural for older men to be drawn to younger women. However, I would suggest that such pairings are perfectly unnatural…that they are, in fact, the result of older males having been frustrated and fixated during a much earlier stage of their psychosexual development....It’s normal only because the vast majority of males in our culture are stunted early in life."

Well, that is silly. A special sexual attraction to younger women is not unique to the modern West - it also holds true in the East; it was also true in ancient times. No matter where one looks, regardless of era, youthful prostitutes will tend to command higher rates. Sultan or king or dictator (including those whose adolescent years were relatively free of frustration) will tend to choose young women for their harems. Studies and surveys will see men (and women, for that matter) rating teenage girls as much more sexually attractive than elderly women. Love it, hate it, either way it is true.

"Personally, I have the most in common with (and hence am the happiest with) people my own age. I can take a fleeting interest in my granddaughter’s day at school and I can feel limited sympathy for my grandmother’s aches and pains but when it comes to a truly intimate encounter, they must at least hum recognizable tunes in the shower."

Well, if you were simply saying that for older men, older women will tend to make better *wives*, then I'd agree. But harem girls? Prostitutes? Sex toys? That is a different matter. Marriage is best based on companionship that goes far deeper than mere lust. A man who chooses his wife by the same criteria by which he'd choose a call girl is likely in for a rocky road.

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