Love in Limbo

The paradoxes of dating and mating.

Feminism Is the Anti-Viagra, Not!

I just read Why Feminism Is the Anti-Viagra, and want to set something straight. Yes, there's some truth to some of what Ogas says about desire. The kind of guy that stars in a woman's sexual fantasy is not necessarily the same one that shares her values or shares parenting. Read More

I think the problem with the

I think the problem with the word "feminist" is that it has become synonymous with "misandrist".

Absoluetely!

Well said.

You've nailed it!

Your comment sums up a lot of misunderstanding about feminism beautifully. Thank you!

Feminism is what feminist

Feminism is what feminist leaders and activists continually do and say. So the identification of feminism with misandry is therefore quite correct.

Nice Try

She's right, the men women fantasize about are not the ones they end up with, the majority end up with providers who as we will see relegate what she calls "warm sex" to what she calls "utilitarian sex", while the women keep fantasizing about the masculine dominant men, Ogas references to, who provide them with hot sex consistently and who most times women cheat or get divorced for.

"A feminist with cleavage in high heels who wants to be ravished in bed is not a contradiction!" True, that's actually hot sex, "...The dominant man / submissive woman scenario that Ogas focuses on is just one way to stoke the tension (and it doesn't matter whether a male or female is dominant, as long as opposites are paired)" True again, that's warm sex, but as we will see it will be relegated to utilitarian sex.

I think the mis-connection comes from her idea of what hot sex actually is, by her definition of hot sex, i.e. uniting against family, jealousy, fear of being caught, etc. are rare times hot sex happens for most people. But hot sex happens all the time, if the man is dominant, masculine, takes control, and is kind of like the men Ogas references to who most women fantasize about! Women cheat on their providers for this guy, they get divorces from their long time lovers who at first provided that passionate warm sex which later turned utilitarian.

Alan, My experience is that

Alan,
My experience is that very few women want hot sex consistently. Like men, women want support, acknowledgement, good communication, affection, trust, etc. When those things are in place, there is the foundation for good sex - sometimes hot, somtimes warm, depending on context.

Totally agree

Totally agree, sometimes it needs to be hot, sometimes it needs to be warm, variety is the spice to life, but those things you mentioned are always essential. Sometimes women are having hot sex at home but they are missing that communication, support, acknowledgement, affection, appreciation etc. and they have emotional affairs.

Way to go

you keep believing that, if it works for you. You're obviously a man, please don't think you have an insight to every woman's brain or sexuality.....because you haven't a clue what goes on in mine!

Havent a clue

Thank you god!

I don't think any man does!

I don't think any man does! hahaha

What goes on in womens heads...

Anonymous wrote:
you keep believing that, if it works for you. You're obviously a man, please don't think you have an insight to every woman's brain or sexuality.....because you haven't a clue what goes on in mine!

We don't have to know what goes on in your brain, because what matters is what goes on in your actions.

This is why the first thing boys learn from older mentors is "don't listen to what women say they want, listen to what they end up wanting".

One of the best way to guarantee that an average looking man remain celibate for life, is having him follow advice from women.

LOL

Well I have heard they don't even think at all, they are creatures with no thoughts.

well said

100 % agree.

Sure dumbbell, never listen

Sure dumbbell, never listen to women. That makes such a great relationship! Typical slop.

Don't see a conflict

To get to the point, I don't think you are dealing with the issue.
The studies you quote (footnotes 1, 2 and 3) deal with couples in some kind of committed relationship. It seems to me that what Ogi Ogas is talking about is the difficulty in even getting a relationship started.
I think it is great that women are taking a more assertive stance, whatever you may call it, but it has to be recognised that, in doing so, there is an impact on the cultural/traditional role of men, especially younger generations (my personal assertion). Some men can deal with it (10%?); most, in my view, can't.
Having said all of that, I think that your post has a lot of good things to say. Perhaps, instead of challenging Ogi Ogas in saying that he is misleading, it would be better to continue acknowledging his contribution, and position your response in a more harmonizing frame.

Quote:Feminism is about

Quote:
Feminism is about social, economic and political equity and is independent of what turns someone on in a bedroom or fantasy.

Nah... So I guess its a different feminism that tackles "sexual harassment" and "rape".

The feminism that has made young boys today scared ***less of asking a girl out... Well, that's "the other feminism".

All those high-profile feminists who say that the mere act of TALKING to a woman whom you are not 100000% certain is interested in being approached or asked out =equivalent to= rape... No, that's another feminism?

Ahhh, yes, the infamous "multiple feminisms" trick. Its used whenever you want to hide from the damage caused by your ideology. Its always "the other" feminists who did that. Not me, not MY feminism.

That boys today approach girls kissing with a quivering "mmmm, ahhhmm, mmmm, if its possible, I mean if you.... mmm, don't mind mmm, can I... mmm possibly kiss you? I mean, if it doesn't offend you"

That has nothing to do with the barrage of feminist produced courses and videos that shame male sexuality into oblivion? Absolutely nothing.

As someone else pointed, you're forgetting people need to get into that relationship first, before all that egalitarianism kicks in.

And I'm sorry, even the most egalitarian women are still submissive on the commencing of a relationship. They still wait for a men to take the lead.

We've taught all the boys that leading and being dominant is EVILLLL, yet, all the girls are still waiting around to be taken on a date.

Nature's way of weeding out weak men

This is what I'm talking about!

I think there are certain natural biological roles men and women were born for when it comes to relationships, for example dominance and leadership are men's roles and submitting and following are women's. I think this has been lost in the modern world where women and men are for the most part equal in social and economic planes, and in a way it might be nature's way of weeding out weak men.

You have a patriarchal bias

Your patriarchal bias is showing.

Patriarchal bias.

"Your patriarchal bias is showing."

[eye roll]

...Better zip up your fly.

Such narrow definitions

Submitting and following are women's only roles. Moron.

Amen

You nailed it, AlekNovy

Sorry, but there's a huge

Sorry, but there's a huge difference between wanting men to show their interest by approach, and wanting to be ruled by them in every aspect of life.

Quote:"A feminist with

Quote:
"A feminist with cleavage in high heels who wants to be ravished in bed is not a contradiction!"

So have you informed of this the "other" feminists who are passing laws to make this illegal? Do you know today feminism recognized 40 types of rape, and already 20 have been put into law?

Do you realize that BY feminism, the only rape that will be legal soon is the kind where you ask for consent every few seconds? "mmm, this isn't uncomfortable right", "You're sure you're fine right", "you don't mind when I put my hand like this"

Mind contacting the "other" feminists who are making ravishment illegal? You're either ignorant of mainstream feminism, feminist law or are lying to us on purpose. Which is it?

Quote:"A feminist with

Quote:
"A feminist with cleavage in high heels who wants to be ravished in bed is not a contradiction!"

So have you informed of this the "other" feminists who are passing laws to make this illegal? Do you know today feminism recognized 40 types of rape, and already 20 have been put into law?

Do you realize that BY feminism, the only rape that will be legal soon is the kind where you ask for consent every few seconds? "mmm, this isn't uncomfortable right", "You're sure you're fine right", "you don't mind when I put my hand like this"

Mind contacting the "other" feminists who are making ravishment illegal? You're either ignorant of mainstream feminism, feminist law or are lying to us on purpose. Which is it?

Lol

I'm guessing you agree that feminism is the anti-viagra, lol.

Thanks, Linda, for being a voice of sanity

I generally agree with Linda Young and want to add that misogyny is the biggest sexual turnoff. Olas' article was a huge libido letdown because it implied that sex=intercourse and everything else is "foreplay." Some of the hottest sex between women and men involves abolutely no intercourse.

No intercourse? Well,

No intercourse? Well, feminists are at least consistent. If intercourse is not necessary for hot sex, then of course men are not necessary. Which is the oft repeated goal of feminism. And yes, for many men that idea is a turn off.

Absoluetely agree with you KT!

I wish some of these men who are making comments (some of whom I won't dignigy with a response), could live as a woman, even for a day!

On men living as women

Anonymous wrote:
I wish some of these men who are making comments (some of whom I won't dignigy with a response), could live as a woman, even for a day!

And we often wish women could live even a single day as a man. Read the book "my year as a self-made man", by a lesbian journalist.

She dressed up and had special makeup done to pass as a man, and lives as one for a year. She had suicidal tendencies at moments because she had NO IDEA how hard it was before living as one.

And yes, her conclusion at the end is that life as a woman is easier in many respects.

Awwwwww.. it must be tough

Awwwwww.. it must be tough being you.. do you need a shoulder to cry on?? It's okay, everything will be okay.

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Linda Young, Ph.D., is a psychologist and relationship coach whose work has appeared on or in CNN, NPR, The Oprah Magazine, and USA Today, among others.

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