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Does pornography yield deleterious effects to individuals and/or society (e.g., increased negative views toward women; increased rate of sexual crimes against women)? The evidence suggests otherwise. As a matter of fact, a recent study finds that the consumption of pornography results in powerful benefits to both sexes. Read More
um, based on the way you have
um, based on the way you have written this, my impression is not so much that porn is beneficial, but more that the people who watch the most porn are also the most ardent defenders of it. of course many of those who use porn in their sex lives believe it is good for them. that is simply logical. we all seek to defend that which is important to us.
rationalization
Hald confirmed to me the possibility of rationalization: "prior research suggest that the perceptual bias, biased optimism, third person effect influence people in a way as to which they believe themselves relative immune (or blind) to media effects".
See also: http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200801/vice-or-virtue-the-pros-p...
Thanks Matt.
I was unaware that you had discussed Hald and Malamuth's paper in one of your posts.
GS
i agree
I agree with you that "people who watch the most porn are also the most ardent defenders of it" as my husband spent 15 of our 18 years of marriage doing it while our marriage was falling apart. When the kids are grown I am leaving him to retreat to his little apartment where he can do porn 24/7 without any barriers, like me.
I am sorry for your personal story but...
As I have mentioned in at least one other response, it is undeniable that pornography has yielded ill effects in particular instances. However, scientific hypotheses and subsequent findings are usually applied at the population level. For example, income and education are highly correlated yet Bill Gates is one of the wealthiest men on Earth despite not having finished his undergraduate degree.
As far as your argument that those who show that pornography is not harmful must be its greatest users, I am afraid that you need to work on your logic. Suppose that researchers in their sixties find that playing video games do not yield greater incidence of violence (in the real-world) from those who play such games, are you equally suggesting that the scientists in question must be closeted gamers?! Every day, thousands of researchers conduct research to find out the links between a set of variables of interest. To argue that all of those researchers must be betraying their personal histories with the variables at hand is silly. I am afraid that your personal story has clouded your understanding of how science operates.
GS
Porn
I did not get the impression that the author of the piece was being accused of being a porn user by "anonymous". Your sympathy seems somewhat fake, just like the moaning and female orgasms are in hardcore porn. Porn is undeniably made for men, not women. It is primarily about male pleasure, not women's and it is highly addictive. People can easily be addicted, but in denial. If you ask a porn addict in denial (and their are many levels) what they think of porn and has it helped them, well, that's a no brainer. Ask an alcoholic in denial how they feel about alcohol! Men would be experts in pleasuring women if there was any pleasuring of women in porn, but that is not the reality. You claimed not be weighing in with an opinion, only reporting on the "science". I would have to agree that the staunchest supporters of porn shout the loudest about its benefits, while ignoring the social price we are paying. If you are truly unbiased, then perhaps you might look at the explosion of sex/porn addiction, which I would guess is the affliction of "anonymous's" husband, and the devastating effects it can have on spouses, children, and families. Take a look at the divorce statistics and how often "porn" is cited as a contributing factor. Perhaps you could look into the problems that people who use porn compulsively, are having relating to people. Perhaps you could talk to the millions of teen and pre-teen girls who have been exposed to porn, and understand the psychological and physical fallout they are suffering because they caught an STD after they had oral or anal sex, at the urging of boys who watch porn, or learning about sex from porn themselves. Porn sex is not real. It is fake. Talk to anyone in the sex industry and they will tell you that is not how they have sex. Sex, ideally, involves trust, caring, love, and other bonding emotions that promote intimacy. I am afraid your understanding of science has clouded your ability to be human, compassionate, and made you rather defensive.
Can you share some of the references in support of your facts?
Many thanks for your thoughts (notwithstanding the personal insults). As I mentioned in several of my responses, I am not a so-called "supporter" of pornography but I am certainly in favor of allowing people the freedom to choose for themselves whether pornography is something that they wish to consume or not.
As far as the litany of ill effects that you mention in your comments, I would be much obliged if you would provide the readers with the relevant references that support your statements. Your "holier than thou" moral indignation does not constitute scientific evidence.
GS
Dear Gad Saad, Thanks for
Dear Gad Saad,
Thanks for opening up the conversation on this controversial issue. I wish I had time to find all my references. Suffice to say, googling and doing your own research on the topics I mentioned will most likely lead you somewhere helpful (and I guess I refer to your readers here). There are, of coarse, endless books on porn addiction, Patrick Carnes being a commonly mentioned expert. Books like "The Porn Trap" by Wendy Maltz, Untangling the Web: sex, porn, and fantasy obsession in the internet age, by Robert Weiss and Jennifer Schneider, Out of the Shadows by Patrick Carnes. For hurt spouses in particular, Hope After Betrayal by Meg Wilson, Shattered Vows by Debra Laaser, After the Affair by Janis Abrahms, Transcending Post-Infideliety Stress Disorder, and as a previous reader mention, RecoceryNation.com has great resources for addicts and spouses.
According to a United Nations fact sheet, "On average, at least one in three women is beaten, coerced into sex or otherwise abused by an intimate partner in the course of her lifetime." Follow this link for reference. http://www.un.org/en/women/endviolence/pdf/VAW.pdf. Whilst, as I am sure you will agree, this may not be scientific evidence that porn causes violence against women, and that is not and has not been my claim at any point, I would suggest that the degrading attitudes portrayed in porn towards women, most likely contribute to this horrifying statistic which can only be viewed as a gross violation of human rights. That is 1 in 3 women, globally. It could be your wife, daughter, or sister. This statistic touches us all and should make every one of us sit up and think about how we may contribute, albeit unwittingly, to this statistic. Women are portrayed in an overly sexualized way in the media in general. How do porn and the media shape/effect our cultural views and attitudes towards women? We need studies that address these issues. I have read (and unfortunately I do not have a source to give you) that it is incredibly difficult to get funding for studies to show the detrimental effects of porn use on individuals, families, relationships, children, and society. There is a concern for causing harm to the study participants, which obviously has moral and legal ramifications. I don't claim to have answers, nor am I advocating for censorship. My concern is for what I consider to be the very high price we may all be paying in a porn internet society, and a society that has mainstreamed porn into the media in general. My concern is for the harm it is causing through misinforming our youth about sex, for the creation of addictions and fetishes that may never have happened without the internet, and for how it may be contributing to the breakdown in marriages and relationships.
There are now bans in high schools in the U.S. (Delaware and maybe other states) on cell phones because of sexting and text-bullying. There are anti-bullying organizations formed by people like psychiatrists, pediatricians, and other officials who work with kids, because they have seen first hand the devastation these practices have on teens. They have fought for the implementation of anti-bullying programs in every school in Delaware and it is now the law. You might wonder what the connection between porn and bullying is, and it would be sexual harassment. Scientific proof or evidence, no. Anecdotal evidence, mostly. Studies would be helpful. In the meantime, our kids, and families, and adults are hurting.
Two books I recommend, especially for those with teen daughters, that talk about the effect our sexualized culture has on girls in particular, including the effect of porn, are:
Reviving Ophelia by Mary Pipher and the much more recent (may be harder to get in US),
What's happening to our girls? by Maggie Hamilton.
We will doubtless continue to have the two extremes over the porn debate, but I would rather focus on raising awareness, particularly for parents, and providing healthy sex education (which would definitely not advocate abstinence-only) in our schools than try to tell people what is right or wrong. I will say that I do not think anything good comes from porn. I recognize many people will beg to differ, and we will have to agree to disagree. But I also think many people who watch porn are mostly unaware of the far-reaching consequences it has on them and others. Care-e2 has some interesting documentaries under women's issues. Here is a video story about sexting.
http://www.athinline.org/videos/17-sexting-in-america-part-1
Here are a couple of websites any porn users should see
http://www.shelleylubben.com/
http://www.cracked.com/article_15725_10-steps-porn-addiction-where-are-y... (This one is also not scientific research, but interesting)
Thanks for giving me a place to have a voice.
Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts.
Many thanks for the attached information. Hopefully, readers will find them of value. Thanks for reading and for contributing to the debate (in a polite manner).
Have a good evening.
GS
Pornography is the depiction,
Pornography is the depiction, both feigned and real, of physical interactions between human beings and other human beings and/or other stimuli. Like any other set of interactions--economic, social, spiritual, etc.--it spans a gamut that ranges from debased and degrading on the one hand to genuinely exciting and mutually "beneficial" (with respect to pornography this would mean arousal, heightened sensory awareness and confidence, and of course orgasm).
In my experience (that is, in my circle of acquaintances), there is a slightly higher frequency of pornography use among males; on the other hand, among the many woman I know who make use of it, it seems to be more straight-forward and uncomplicated by feelings of guilt and ethical ambiguity.
Trust, love, and intimacy are clearly precious foundations of any relationship. The question is, is there any clear, broad, statistical data that support the very common presumptions that you echo here? It would seem, no. So personal attitudes toward pornography have to be considered personally, and not based on false pseudo-epidemiological claims. One may take a personal spiritual or philosophical position against pornography that is sound, but it seems that empirical studies will not support such positions in the way we might want: that porn is a de facto emotional toxin that is inevitably harmful to psyches and relationships. Surely this is extremely interesting and worthy of discussion, whatever one's a priori position.
I might compare it to the eating of meat. An ethical commitment to vegetarianism is clearly noble and defensible; but the empirical examination of the contribution of animal proteins to human health reveals a spectrum of benefits (particularly to women) that outweigh the harms. Our good buddhist friends would likely be unfazed by this fact and continue to embrace vegetarianism. Perhaps this might help to nuance your own response?
Just thought of another example (in line with your logic)
Numerous scientists have uncovered that drinking red wine in moderation is good for the heart. I suppose that they must be alcoholics. Good work Anonymous.
GS
Wow... Gad Saad can be a bit
Wow... Gad Saad can be a bit smarmy.
I am trying to keep up with your heroic anonymity. :)
Hey JKwo,
It takes a lot of courage to hurl insults at bloggers who do their best to provide interesting contents for a wide readership. You sir/madam need to be commended on your courage and for contributing in such a profound manner to the debate.
GS
I agree these porn users
I agree these porn users surveyed would definitely defend their habits. I also would like to make the argument that pornography conditions people to physically and mentally want something other than what they have (i.e. their spouse), which in turns leads to dissatisfaction and all too often leads to divorce.
why not your opinion?
Studies mean little to me compared to knowing real people whose lives have been affected by pornography--either the users or those who live with them. I would appreciate knowing your personal stance on the matter.
Your opening sentence is very problematic.
Studies have found that lung cancer and smoking are highly correlated yet there are many heavy smokers who never develop cancer. Science does not work by personal anecdotes. If it did then it would be called gossip.
It is undoubtedly true that there are many instances wherein pornography might have yielded negative outcomes. Incidentally, I discuss pornographic addiction in my book (The Evolutionary Bases of Consumption) so I am very aware of its potential harm.
However, scientific statements operate typically at the population level: Men are taller than women (it is a fact) but there are many women who are taller than men.
Please try not to conflate personal observations with population-level science.
GS
Try to catch up with the fact
Try to catch up with the fact that many porn users with problems do not talk about it, whether it is in your book or not. For those we know about, there are many we don't know about. Spouses have to remain anonymous because there is enormous shame associated with being married to a sex/porn addict, and children of porn/sex addicts can be bullied mercilessly at school if students find out. It is a families private shame and "dirty little secret". Perhaps ten years from now the science will have caught up with the problems of internet porn in particular, but unfortunately science and laws are far behind our current technology. Science is helpful, but not a God. It is fallible. Remember (or perhaps you are too young?) when the scientists told us not to eat butter, but margarine. Then they told us not to eat margarine, but butter. When the tides on the porn issue have turned, as I believe eventually they will because the human/societal cost will have become so great it can no longer be ignored, you may think differently. For many years, the tobacco companies claimed there was no scientific link between smoking and lung cancer. I guess they were wrong.
Oh I see. The ill effects of porn are there but are hidden!
You are indeed correct that science is an auto-corrective process. Accordingly, if future scientific evidence is unequivocal in linking the consumption of pornography with all of the ill effects that you mentioned in your other set of comments then we will all take stock of that fact. This is how science operates. However, the current state of evidence does not support such claims.
I should mention that you seem to be very passionate about the supposed ills of pornography and this might be clouding your ability to weigh the relevant scientific evidence that has thus far been generated.
To repeat myself yet again, I am fully aware that many people have experienced deleterious consequences linked to pornography. This does not mean that a causal link has been established at the population level between pornography and any particular ill.
You can huff and puff as much as you'd like. It does not change the existing scientific reality.
That said, many thanks for sharing your thoughts.
GS
Came across an interesting
Came across an interesting paper called "The Impact of Internet Pornography on Marriage and the Family: a Review of the Research" by Jill C. Manning, (2005). I thought it might interest some of your readers. She, as am I, is primarily concerned about the social toll of internet porn and looks at the research (so far) from this perspective. I think the statistics and what she has to say about the effects on children, adolescents, and families is particularly important and more that a trifle alarming. I also really like her suggestions for future research. Thanks again for giving me a place to be "passionate".
http://74.125.155.132/scholar?q=cache:FOswmaJAoqsJ:scholar.google.com/+e...
Thank you for the information.
FYI: I deleted your duplicate set of comments, which you had submitted two minutes earlier (albeit without the attached link). Have a good weekend.
GS
'self-perception' studies tell us about exactly, and only, that
Do a survey amongst dope smokers about its benefits to self and society, and guess what results you'll find? Australian hippies love telling everyone that Aborigines have smoked dope for 50,000 years. Doesn't make it true.
If people really knew what benefited them, we wouldn't need science. Surveys, by and large, are junk science. They borrow the statistical techniques to apply to self-reports which index nothing much.
(I'm neutral on pornography, at least from an empirical perspective. Ethics are a separate issue).
I'll pass along your message that all surveys are junk.
Dear CB,
Many thanks for your self-assuredness about what constitutes junk science. To think that thousands of scientists in both the natural and social sciences have utilized surveys to uncover countless important findings over the past one hundred years whilst they thought that they were conducting real science.
You come along and "show us" that surveys that are used in fields as varied as epidemiology, sociology, psychology, consumer behavior, philosophy of science, economics, anthropology, human ethology, sociobiology, and endless other disciplines is all junk.
I'll pass along your wisdom to all the "pseudo-scientists" that have been fooling themselves.
GS
Frankly, unbridled
Frankly, unbridled consumption and the pornographication of society in general are serious social ills. We're continuously bombarded with advertising that implies we're no good as we are, we need X gadget and Y pill and Z bunch-of-crap to make our lives better, and we're no longer considered citizens or human beings; we're given the label "consumers" (mooooo-OOO!) and that is held up as the highest good. And as an engineer, I have to tell you that roughly a quarter the "sciences" you mention in your post above are only "sciences" insomuch as somebody slaps that moniker on them. Dang, I spent HOW much receiving an advanced degree when I could have been a "consumer behaviorist"???! GIGO, I believe, is the acronym I'm seeking here.
I will relay your message along with that of CB.
Dear RTP,
I will make sure to relay your message at the next set of scientific meetings that I'll attend that most of the people who are in attendance are not real scientists, and I'll make sure to advise them that only your advanced degree carries any weight.
By the way, it takes a lot of courage on your part to remain anonymous whilst hurling silly and offensive insults at scientists and academics of all ilk.
You sir are a true intellectual and a bastion of heroism. Keep up the good work in shining the light on "fake scientists".
GS
P.S. When I was an undergraduate student in Mathematics and Computer Science, there was a stereotype about the engineering students having somewhat of an inferiority/superiority complex. It's good to see that you are keeping the stereotype alive.
Private Browsing
Your posts make me glad, not sad! (Sorry, couldn't resist.)
Seriously, this study is an important example of how science works in that what seems "obviously true" (i.e., porn is pernicious, or at least indicative of problems) might have it exactly inverted.
Whether this turns out to be true for porn is still an interesting question. I may have to do some research.
Thank you Dr. Pelusi.
Many thanks for your kind words. I am happy to hear that you enjoy my posts. Have a good weekend.
GS
Find you a corner or some
Find you a corner or some where private to relieve your stress.I prefer it to be your little secret.
Interesting. Thanks for
Interesting. Thanks for giving us food for thought!
My pleasure.
Thanks for reading. Have a good weekend.
GS
Nice Piece Doc
If you have an Addictive Personality, I can see where porn would be a whole lot less dangerous than food. I once had a job reviewing new releases and never gained a pound.
On a personal note, it's really interesting watching the videos being made, visiting the AV conventions, attending their awards ceremonies, etc. In terms of profit and production, the XXX business far exceeds the numbers coming out of Hollywood.
Can porn be a problem? Only if you already have a problem!
Steve
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