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Atheists are the most detested of all groups, both in the public and private arenas. Not only do we think they're least likely to apparently share a "common vision of my America," but they're also the least desirable people for your sons and daughters to marry.
Emphaticals
Don't get too sad about the findings there...the questionaire you noted is worded wherein it is like having people choose, "Which of the following best describes you: a)Racist b)Homophobe c)Bigot". They picked the answer least likely to reflect horribly on themselves.
"The most detested" is a very sketchy conclusion at which to arrive, when you consider that the questionaire basically implies, "If you could pick one the following groups to erradicate from the face of the Earth, would it be: a)Muslims b)Gays c)Atheists or d)Whites," this sort of questioning will clearly come to justify the scientist's initial aim or actually determine which group is percieved as being least likely to retaliate violently upon having been chosen as "most detested," thus the study concludes that Atheists are viewed favorably and as the most rational, peaceful, and understanding group, most likely to note the differences in opinion of others and let them be, least likely to retaliate with violence or whine with claims of "Anti-Atheism!" or shout grievences of "Intolerance!".
Personally, I was very pleased to hear Obama include me in that speech, since mere months prior I was reflecting on how religious references made by Presidents and leaders have served thus far to marginalize and neglect me, as if I were not part of this nation, as if I were invisible and thus voiceless...which is both an insensitive and ignorant thing for any "leader" to do.
Interesting insight. Thanks.
Hi Marik,
I appreciate your positive spin on the findings. I suspect though that even if your methodological concerns were addressed, atheists would remain the most disliked of the various listed groups. Note that I used the softer "disliked" in my reply here since you took exception to the word "detested" in my post!
Thanks for reading.
GS
Romans 1 16For I am not
Romans 1
16For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Good for you!
I like unicorns. Lets make up a story about a nice pink unicorn and worship it. It's as true as your story, why not?
If I don't believe in YOUR story, then I guess you do not have to believe in MINE. Live and let live.
You should try that philosophy.
That's dangerously close to
That's dangerously close to something Jesus would have taught.
Don't outrage the righteous by pointing out their hypocrisies - they'll burn you at the stake for such dalliances with truth.
UK
Coming from the UK and thinking of myself also as a European, there are two points I'd make. First, atheists are obviously viewed differently here. It's very religious people who are viewed suspiciously. Most Europeans see the religious right in the US as ridiculous. Secondly, you refer to the US as the "most advanced civilization in history", something which I would certainly take issue with. It may well be the most technologically advanced, although I'm not even sure of that (Japan?), but most civilised? Many people in Europe joke about the US being like a third world country in many ways. Any civilisation with the death penalty is hardly an advanced civilisation, but rather one lacking compassion and a moral dimension. The current heated debate in the US about an all inclusive system of medical care seems to reveal a society in which many of the rich seem to care nothing for the poorer members of society.
Yes, I have watched the show Little Britain!
Hi Dave,
I have no bones to pick in the 'America versus the world' fight. I was simply referring to the fact that a substantial proportion of the scientific progress over the past eight decades or so has originated from the United States. Hence, in that sense, the US is a paradox in that it is a bastion of great intellectual creativity and output whilst at the same time it is a hotbed for a populace that scores quite high on religiosity.
Don't worry. I have nothing but the greatest admiration for British intellectual contributions. After all, Charles Darwin, Richard Dawkins, Bill Hamilton, J.B.S. Haldane, John Maynard Smith, and endless other evolutionists all hail from Britain.
Let's not let patriotic fervor mask the key point that I was making in my post.
Thanks for reading.
GS
I absolutely agree with you
I absolutely agree with you Dave. Your comment is insightful and honest. Although I'm an American, and live in the U.S., I look at the the morals of my country and they seem absolutely absurd. If you'd like to think of the U.S. as a melting pot or a place that accepts everyone, this is not true. Sure, religious people don't believe in gay marriage, but they'll steal, gossip, get divorced, etc, but repent on Sundays. They feel like they are better than people who don't believe in God, when really, to some, believing in God is a weakness. If you aren't secure in your own self and have your own morals to live up to, you just lean on God and not worry or think about what kind of person you want to be. Religious folks tend to be the most hypocritical and judgemental of them all. At least the folks in Europe and other progressive countries have realized this to some extent.
Bottom Line
What do great scientists, philosophers, and literary giants have in common? They are the smartest people on earth, that's what. So what does it tell you when the smartest people on the Earth agree on something. That it might possibly be true?
Deal with it.
I hope that your comment was not directed to me.
Hi Al,
I am unsure if your comment was directed to me or to the reader who quoted from Romans. If it was directed my way then I think that you need to reread my post a bit more carefully. I was being sarcastic when I was denigrating atheists. You are aping my position in your comment.
GS
atheists in literature, science, etc...
Throughout all of history a majority of all people, including intellectuals, have believed in a god or gods. A majority of people in the world today believe in one of the 3 religions that stem from the children of Abraham: Muslim, Jew, or Christian.
Many people think Jesus Christ was a good man or prophet. Have these people actually considered the claims Jesus made about Himself? Good men don't go about calling themselves God unless: they're crazy, they're evil, or they're really God. Therefore, Jesus Christ is one of the 3, but merely a good man He is not.
The evidence that Christians need a Saviour is reflected in the fact that you see evil in Christians. Jesus said it wasn't the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. The fact that you can distinguish between good and evil is evidence that these things exist, otherwise, your observations are invalid and pointless.
The difference is some people can see the evil in others, but draw the line when examining themselves. Christians fall like anyone else if they wander far from their faith. Christians have to start each day facing the same temptations as everyone else, yet they are held to a higher standard (and rightly so) due to their professed relationship with God. Christians are saved my a gift of grace from God, not because they are "good enough" to save themselves. They wouldn't need a Saviour if they could stop doing evil on their own or pay back every person they've wronged in the past.
Being a Christian doesn't mean God will stop you from doing evil, but He will convict you when your choices are out of line with His will. Also, some people call themselves Christians, but have no clue of what it means. I can call myself a giraffe, but it doesn't mean that I am. Biblically speaking, you will know them by their fruit. A good tree brings forth good fruit.
Really interesting
Just read though your article, and it is definitely very interesting. I assume when you say atheists are the most mistrusted group that you are referring to the western religions (Christianity, Islam, and Judaism). I am in fact a Buddhist and I certainly do not have any bone to pick with atheists. In fact for a lot of the time, I agree with science and the atheist way of thinking. I am sure that is what you were implying, I just wanted to clarify. Again, very interesting article.
Thank you for the kind words.
Hi Anonymous,
The groups that were covered in the study did not include buddhists. I am hardly an expert on Buddhism but I suppose that one could be an atheist and believe in some of the philosophical underpinnings of Buddhism. However, once we get into the more "esoteric" teachings then these obviously fall outside of the scientific method.
Thanks for reading.
GS
buddhism
Buddhism is about the way, not a god and is consistent with atheism. In buddhism, you are responsible for your own salvation. Good luck!
:)
I live in Canada and even here I fell like an outcast in society, I had a discussion with someone at work today about weather parents should tell their kids about Santa clause. (Not about telling them the truth at a certain age but to never even start the lie in the first place)
At point I said Santa clause is like Jesus, they are both fake and at some point when the child is older they will realize you lied to them.
The look I received from my co-worker was one of disgust and horror and he said, what are you one of those atheist people. I looked at him straight in the eye and bluntly said yes. The conversation did not last very long after that.
So I get the whole mistrust issue, I am glad you are talking about it, hopefully it will help inform people and maybe they will become educated on our beliefs (or lack of) ... I would be interested in a study that asked people what they thought atheists believe, I have come across many people who believe atheists worship Satan. Seriously.
Of course they don’t trust us if they think we are devil worshipers.
Misinformation leads people to believe in ‘death panels’ and that we want to kill Sarah Palins baby and Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.... I could go on and on.
I hope one day all the atheist myths seem as ridiculous as saying George W Bush was a great and capable president. (ha-ha)
Amen Kristine! :)
Many thanks for your thoughts. Thank you for reading.
GS
i respect that but do not agree
i can respect you for speaking out about what you believe but i cannot agree with the things that you said. (nothing in this comment is ment for offense) if atheists dont worship satan theen what do they believe? thats what i never understood. i personally believe in Jesus (as my Lord and savior) as opposed to santa claus. i believe in having fatih and believeing that Jesus died for my forgivness. but i just dont agree with you comparing Jesus to santa claus
Are you kidding?
Hi Amber,
Surely you cannot believe that the lack of belief in an invisible deity implies that atheists are satanists. How about believing in reason, logic, and the scientific method? How about believing in universal love, compassion, humanism, kindness, honesty, etc.? Do you think that only those who believe in Jesus Christ can display such approaches to life? Could you not see how arrogant, patronizing, and dogmatic your position is?
I must sign off, as I am about to head off to my Satanist meeting. I need to find where I put my black robe and vile of chicken blood (to smear on my face) prior to heading off to the meeting. :)
GS
Jesus = Santa
Actually, my oldest son stopped believing in Santa at 6. When, at 8, he began to repeat nonsensical popery, I didn't take the provocative bait and compared his attitude to believing in Santa. I think it worked.
I kind of agree with Marik, and thank you for the article, it made for interesting workplace discussion.
Just because atheists don't
Just because atheists don't believe in God, Zeus, Allah, Uranus, Thor, Ra or any of the other 2,850+ gods man has concocted doesn't mean they "worship" Satan. It's not an either-or proposition. Anyway, atheists don't believe in Satan any more than they believe in gods.
Get your mind out of the "worship" rut. People don't *have to* worship anyone or anything. Once you get that you might begin to understand.
I am a Christian and I am
I am a Christian and I am opposed to telling kids lies about Santa Claus. I think it is morally evil to lie to a person at any age. I plan to have an indepth conversation with historical documents regarding the real St. Nicholas when my children ask. I want them to know the truth as best as they can understand it, though due to their tender age they may not "get it." Until a certain age they don't even understand identity. Regardless, I had the same problem as a child when I realised all the stories my parents had told me about Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and stuff were lies. I wondered what other things they'd told me were lies.
I made a decision for Christ as an adult based on my own research. I will relay this info to my children also when they ask.
I'm sorry you've encountered some Christians who have conflicting agendas or don't know how to respond to you. I hope you can look beyond those who have hurt you in the past and realize that is not the attitude Christ told His people to have. Some Christians are weak in the faith or else, have honest inabilities to understand where you are coming from. If you are open to it, seek out Christians who have come from a background similar to yours. If you honestly seek the One who sends them, I believe He will help you. Everything lines up. He did this for me.
satanism
Most satanists I know believe their religion allows them to be their own god. This idea is consistant with atheism. The satanists I know care about the environment, their families, etc, but usually put themselves first. They are very proud. I think the main difference is one group admires a fallen angel and the other group doesn't believe in the aforementioned fallen angel. Otherwise attitudes about how to conduct life are fairly similar.
You're hanging with the wrong crowd
Egocentricity and pride are "consistant [sic] with atheism"?? What about the theistic conceits that an all-powerful deity made humans in its image, created an unimaginably vast and complex universe just to house them, and obsesses over minute details of their lives? And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? (Matthew 7:3)
Atheists have exactly one thing in common: a lack of belief in a god or gods. Beyond that it is neither safe nor honest to generalize. Laveyan Satanism, which best fits your description, is egocentric, elitist, and libertarian as well as atheist (no, they don't believe in a literal Satan). Its adherents represent a tiny minority of atheists, though of course there are other atheists who are egocentric, elitist, and/or libertarian. It probably reflects the circles I travel in (education, public service, nonprofit, arts, environment), but the overwhelming majority of atheists I've met are secular humanists who value reason, ethics, and justice over self interest. This raises the question of what circles you travel in to have met so many self-identified Satanists but apparently so few secular humanists.
wrong crowd?
I know lots of people from lots of crowds. I can't say I know a single humble humanist. They don't agree that there is a universal right and wrong. They see themselves, not a god, as the authority on such matters, therefore, they are their own god.
If good and evil are relative or whims of a society at large, who cares about your community service, education, etc... What is it really? Good? If there is no real right or wrong, what standard are you comparing yourself to Lavey's followers with?
Herd instinct vs self preservation instinct? Which is "better," more honorable? When a majority of society massacres the minority, why do outsiders judge them? The majority thought they were "right." How can you say they were wrong? How can we judge anyone if good and evil are a matter of opinion?
By what standard are you judging Christians, Satanists, or anyone else? You have judged that I'm hanging with the wrong crowd. Are your friends "holier" than mine? If so, based on what authority?
Put away your straw men, please
Of course there are universal standards of human behavior. The basic rules are encoded in our DNA, a legacy of millions of years of natural selection favoring sociality (they exist in other social species as well), and have been codified, refined, and elaborated (and too often perverted) by increasingly complex societies through history. (Look up "altruism," "natural law," and "social contract.") You can boil it down to the "Golden Rule" (which, it may surprise you to learn, is not unique to Judeo-Christian tradition), but I prefer to paraphrase naturalist Aldo Leopold:
A thing is right when it tends to promote integrity, stability, and harmony within and between human societies and wrong when it tends otherwise.
Reciprocity, cooperation, equitable distribution of natural and social resources, fair trade, equal opportunity, intellectual freedom, and education tend to promote integrity, stability, and harmony. Theft, rape, murder, race and/or gender inequality, repression, oppression, enslavement, pogroms, ethnic cleansing, and genocide tend otherwise.
The selfish, competitive side of our nature has also been codified in laws and customs (both secular and religious) that permit or encourage exploitation and abuse of members of outgroups (religious, ethnic, cultural, political, economic, etc.) and vulnerable members of our own ingroups (women, children, the physically or mentally challenged, etc.). Some of the most horrific crimes against humanity have been committed by people who decided - or were told by their religious and/or political leaders - that the universal standards of behavior toward other humans did not apply to members of other religions, tribes, ethnicities, political groups, etc. Since many of these atrocities were allegedly permitted, encouraged or demanded by deities (Yaweh being a prominent offender, according to the Bible), any deity that gets credit for handing down a code of morality must also take the blame for appalling breaches of that code.
For humans, altruistic behavior is clearly "better" than less social alternatives that work for other species as it has allowed us not only to survive but to become the dominant species on the planet. If it hadn't, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Great answer. Won't convince religious folks I am afraid.
Hi Again Sanity Jane,
Great response. Alas, I am afraid that religious folks will not be convinced. Either they will proclaim that evolutionary forces could not have shaped our moral fortitude (the argument from personal incredulity) or they will outrightly reject that evolution is an operative process. If they wish to be "charitable," they will propose the following: "OK, I might be willing to grant you that evolution is relevant here. But who do you think "created" evolution...God." Hence, you see it is a losing battle to argue with those who claim that they have a personal window into the heart and mind of a "celestial dictator" (to borrow Christopher Hitchens' term).
I have often argued that being moral as an atheist is infinitely more impressive than being moral because you believe that the "celestial dictator" has mandated it (or will punish you if you transgress). The typical answer that I have received from religious folks is the following: "Who do you think made you good. God! Hence, you are an ingrate for not recognizing all that He has done for you." Nice!
Keep up the good fight for reason and for the eradication of Bronze Age superstitions.
GS
Alas indeed...
The stubbornly religious do seem to have a limitless supply of creative rationalizations to explain why their particular belief system is correct and atheists and other infidels are wrong (even when our behavior is arguably less "sinful" than theirs). But faith isn't always impervious to reason, and I've met a lot of former believers in blog comments and forums who just needed a little nudge in the right direction to start thinking for themselves. Maybe your column and its comments will give someone that nudge.
I appreciate your pragmatic optimism.
Thank you for your words of encouragement. Have a good weekend.
GS
Gad
If you were a "moral" atheist, wouldn't it be better to live and let live rather than verbally assaulting your brother who may be working in the soup kitchen, clinic, or field for the widow because he truly believes God is Love and that Love is what he should show toward those who are worse off than himself.
If you took every Christian out of America today, many charities that people rely on to survive would no longer exist. The government programs miss a lot of people. The churches pick up the broken ones left behind.
The "celestial dictator" (if you speak of the Christian God) said He wasn't willing that any should perish, but that all would come to repentance. He doesn't force anyone to spend time with Him. He gives humans the option; to come back to Him and into His fellowship or continue on their own way and eventually to a place where they can be away from Him and His people all together forever.
Congrats on taking on the "holier than thou" (though atheist) perspective. Awesome!
Its funny how you keep
Its funny how you keep throwing the 'holier than thou' approach at the posters here, but you also refer to the Christians as being the only ones who keep the soup kitchens running. That the churches are the only ones picking up the broken ones left behind,... by your god.
I am an Atheist who donates not only his time, but money and the time of his children to show these less fortunate that your god seems to have forgotten, that they do count, and they do matter.
I do it not for reward of afterlife, nor for favortism; I do it so that my children will see that life is precious, and that doing some good in the world gives us ALL hope of a brighter tomorrow, to make them feel like someone still cares about them.
I teach my children to be good people; not so there is a hope of an afterlife, but that there is hope of goodness being spread to the minds of my children, and their children, etc. Not by hanging the fear of a spiteful and vengeful god with fire and brimstone, hatred of those who think differently than us, but by the good feelings you get that knowing you did a good deed that helped others out. That knowing that they may feel a little happiness in their minds and that they are thought of.
Your Christian bretheran are doing it for whatever reason they do it, but they are not the only group doing good things.
You should put the rocks down in your glass house, Anonymous.
The only things that would disapper come from the loss of Christianity would be war, pestilence, famine, over population, hatred, etc.
Except, that is, from the failing and shrinking crowd of Christians who would be scrambling to grab hold of the control they once had; the fear-mongering hordes of terribly unhappy people who rely on a crutch much like the smoker who has run out of cigarettes, like the junkie who has spent his last dime on a bag of meth, like the alcoholic whose bottle has finally run dry.
For truly, your religious beliefs and actions are akin to those exhibited by people of chemical, alcohol and psychological addictions. When others point it out to you, the first thing you do it deny, then counter accuse. You join in with a gang mentality and as a group, you attack.
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