Having Sex, Wanting Intimacy

Merging sense and sensibility in modern relationships

Six Dating Rules You Should Stop Following

Bogus rules when it comes to dating invariably lead to one of two ill-fated consequences: Playing the game culminates in a kind of bait and switch in which one member of the union tends to feel duped or one person continues to operate with a façade so that she never becomes fully known by her partner and ends up in a one-sided relationship. Here are 6 rules to reconsider. Read More

Thank you

I am so glad someone is finally blowing all the horseshit out there in the dating world out of the water. Keep writing and get this stuff in the main stream where people can learn to stop shooting their selves in the foot.

I'm glad to see that someone has some common sense!

Yes these "rules" are just

Yes these "rules" are just crap.

My thoughts on #1 is, you can wait all you want, if she's promiscuous, I'll figure it out before her phony waiting period is over. Women just need to be upfront, what men hate more than anything is to be deceived.

#2 Playing Hard to get --- I don't have time for that, besides its just a deceptive as the #1 good-girl act.

Thank you!

Thanks a lot for write this, This is really nice, powerful and inspiring.. Really love to read this..

my 180

I share this here with the hope that it may help folks find comfort when dating and entering into a new relationship...

Just prior to celebrating one of the BIG birthdays I did some soul searching and admitted that I had been approaching dating from the wrong perspective. I had always tried to entice and seduce men, using my physical appearance and feminine wiles (which I believed to be all that I had to offer a man), until I recognized the hazardous pattern of deception I was weaving. Needless to say, my past relationships were never quite right.

So I had the big birthday and coincidentally went out on a first date 10 days later and instead of heart palpitations and a low cut top, I decided to be comfortable inside and out! I went deep inside of myself to where I truly reside and stayed there, peaceful and still.

I met my date, Rob, at a coffee shop, still deeply in touch with my self and enjoyed the most rewarding first date I'd ever had. Meeting someone new from such an authentic place within myself was the best decision I could possibly have made. I didn't want to pretend. I wanted to connect with someone genuinely and truly and that's exactly what happened. Finally, I am comfortable in my own skin and this makes it easier for me to connect with others. I can sense that others are more comfortable in my presence as well and that too is deeply rewarding. I can finally see how much I DO have to offer to a partner and look so very forward to a mutually satisfying relationship.

Rob and I will go out on our 4th date tonight :)

Peace y'all,
Denise

Thanks Denise

What a lovely story, Denise! I can totally relate to how you used to approach dating, feeling like you only have your appearance to offer. That's exactly how I feel. Your comment has really made me think about my self-worth and how I interact with men...

Good luck to you and Rob!

Happy for you

Nice story. I'm there with you about changing my approach. I am single, yet learning about how to be comfortable in my own skin so when I am confident enough to venture back out into the dating world, I will attract someone who is seeing the real me and not some type of illusion I'm trying to hide behind. Congrats on reaching your true self and braving the dating world with comfortable success.

When will you tell Rob about

When will you tell Rob about the 500 guys you've had sex with before you learned to be a human being?

Oh that's right, what he'll never know won't hurt him -- unless he sees you on a porn site.

scripts...

The reality is, both genders are addicted to scripts that were forged from early life history experiences. We all mimic our formative life experiences when interacting with others, until we realize that using those experiences as a non-negotiable roadmap for life must eventually give way to a more adaptive and reactive style of engagement. When looking for a mate, being one's self is not going to guarantee landing "the prize", but if you feel good about yourself, the odds of attracting a suitable partner get much better.

There's a word you don't hear much these days.

Scripts are a key component of the branch of social psychology known as transactional analysis (TA), which no one talks about anymore. Books such as Eric Berne's What Do You Say After You Say Hello? and Claude Steiner's Scripts People Live might be a good place to start for anyone interested.

In a nutshell, in TA scripts are different than you've got them -- they result from longterm persistent low level programming by the parent of the opposite sex. This is quite different from "role model" concepts of early development which emphasize the same-sex parent. And it's not to deny the possible importance of other childhood experiences.

For example, a boy is scripted by his mother. What's her principle example of an adult male? Her father. (This model goes back to before the disintegration of the two-parent family began.) So a mother will tend to script a son to be like his maternal grandfather, possibly emphasizing his good qualities and excising his bad ones, depending on the mother's relationship with her father and her adult perspective.

One implication for men is that they should choose woman as mothers whose father they like, because their sons are going to resemble him in a lot of ways.

In terms of dating, people tend to pair up with those who either further or complement their scripts, the former being the one-sided kind of relationship. If the scripts are good, fine; if the scripts are bad or incompatible, not so good.

This is a nice article. I

This is a nice article. I really hate those silly daytime talk shows and magazines that try to impose certain rules when it comes to relationships (as well as gender roles/stereotypes.)

You should just be yourself - be free to ask someone out no matter what your gender. For one thing, I think it's really silly that men are expected to be the ones to pursue a woman and be the one to ask if she wants to marry him.

Also, I hate that sexual double-standard where it's implied that women "give" sex to men. Sex should be equal - two people wanting to be intimate with each other.

So true! I love your way of

So true! I love your way of thinking.

Don't give the milk away for free? Seriously??

*facepalms*

'Don't give the milk away for free'.
To that I say...'Don't give away the salami for free'.

I kind of see the former as slut-shaming. I really don't like that phrase. I think it's up to the two folks to determine how long they can date w/o hitting the sheets.

"Why do I have to buy the cow if I am getting the milk for free?"
just say this....
"Why do I have to buy the BULL if I am getting the beef for free?"

Just saying

Nikki wrote:
*facepalms*

'Don't give the milk away for free'.
To that I say...'Don't give away the salami for free'.

I kind of see the former as slut-shaming. I really don't like that phrase. I think it's up to the two folks to determine how long they can date w/o hitting the sheets.

"Why do I have to buy the cow if I am getting the milk for free?"
just say this....
"Why do I have to buy the BULL if I am getting the beef for free?"

You can live your life as you choose but you wouldn't get anywhere near this beef.

I don't like SLUTS at all, Male or Female and shame is NOT a bad word. Shame is a basic human emotion and is naturally there to cause a change in behavior so one can learn to stop hurting other people emotionally. SLUTS deserve and need to be shamed! :-)

SLUTS feel their shame so deeply that they lie to their selves about it or ignore it or bury their shame so deeply that they don't even realize that is what is causing their unethical narcissistic behavior.

They take an attitude of I don't care about you, just as long as I get mine. SLUTS leave a trail of emotional destruction in their wake. Hurting other people emotionally is truly a SICKENING sense of POWER.

SLUTS are narcissist and wear that SICKENING POWER loudly and proudly.

GOOD FOR YOU!!

Hahaha... woah.

Hahaha... woah.

Yep, but oh well. :-)

I am not sure what you are saying "woah" to....but decided to respond. :-)

Neil knows nothing about me, and I know nothing about him. His response _implies_ to me he probably has had some painful experiences with women who are NOT looking for a relationship and he ended up being hurt by some women who were just looking for hook ups.

_IF_ that is the case, I deeply regret he was hurt by them. I just hope he does not paint me and others with a 'broad brush'. If I have assumed too much of Neil, then I apologize.

Just cuz I prefer hook ups does not mean I am like the women that hurt him in the past. Generalizations or "painting with a broad brush" does not help anyone. When one "ass"umes, then one makes an 'ass' of 'u' and 'me'.

I sincerely wish more men AND women will not troll the relationship website personals for "hook ups". Just go somewhere ELSE for hook ups. There are many other websites for hook ups as there are for those who are serious about relationships, love, commitment and such.

Just BE fricking' HONEST about what one is looking for: relationship or hook up. There is nothing to be ashamed about being a 'hook up'. If someone wants to shame the person looking for hook-ups, then that is their problem, not the hook-up'er.

I wish Neil ALL the peace he deserves in the world.

I was were you are in life.

I was were you are in life. But that was a long, long time ago. I have been on both sides of the game. I have grown. I am an old man. I hear what you are saying, and I understand were you are at in your life. I have been there. A long long time ago.

I wish you well.

Neil, you were not where she

Neil, you were not where she is in life. You were not a woman, and Nikki obviously is.

I agree! I cannot stand the

I agree! I cannot stand the double standard. And I have no desire to be with a man who does not respect me because I slept with him "too soon" or "too easily" (whatever that means). Do men forget that they participated in the activity too? I'd rather be alone. (Although I am not alone, just fyi.)

Delayed gratification

I thought this was a wise article, especially the last section. "Be yourself and have good boundaries" sums up the best advice anyone could give about a relationship. If s/he does not like you the way you are, you are better off without him/her.

A couple of additional comments. First, while I agree that talking about yourself openly is important, if you want to avoid being taken advantage of, make sure it's a two-way street. Abusive partners tend to look for you to reveal yourself and then "edit" their personalities to fit your needs. Some are incredibly gifted at this and are almost undetectable. The best way to make sure this doesn't happen is to ask your date to reveal something about him/herself separate from what you've said. A reluctance to do this or a tendency to spin stories that sound like they're made up are important red flags to notice.

I also have observed that delayed sexual gratification can be an important tool in screening out jerky partners. Especially if you are a pretty spontaneous person, you can be an easy mark for someone who is just looking for a night in the sack. Now if that's what you're looking for, go for it, no shaming here - but if you're looking for something longer term, I actually think it makes sense to go slowly in the sexual arena in most situations, because it drives away those who are looking for a quick hookup but don't want to admit it. Movie scripts make it seem like "love at first sight" is common and that we should indulge in those initial feelings of attraction without much thought, but years of working with domestic abuse victims have taught me that those images rarely comport with reality.

The most important concept is to stop trying to figure out how to make your partner like you, and focus a lot more on whether this partner is a person you really can feel free and safe to be yourself around. And if being yourself drives him/her away, you probably dodged a bullet!

Read more about red flags for abusive partners in my book, "Jerk Radar."

---- Steve

Dating and Myths

I'm so happy these myths were blown out of the water. I am a carefree, happy-go-lucky individual who is not shy. I am lively, vivacious and have a wicked sense of humor. None of this has ever been hidden while dating and some men even thanked me for being so upfront and honest about who I am and what I want. I guess I have always been comfortable in my own skin and people learn that right away. Over the past 40 years, I have broken most dating rules so I am a rebel anyway. Thanks for the great article!

We all date but for different

We all date but for different reasons. Some just to date not wanting a relationship which is fine. Some date looking for a relationship which is fine. It depends on our life at the time. Our priorities change for us as we grow/mature. I have been where I didn't want a relationship but I didn't mind dating or being intimate if dating someone. I gave that up because they ended up wanting too much from me for where I was at emotionally with them. I was honest so they knew but I still hurt them and that was not what I wanted. I can tell what a man is looking for soon after meeting him. If I am not in relationship mode and they are I turn them into friends and they understand if I do it right away. I have some that still call or visit and have been for ten years. They still flirt with me but they also find that I will only go so far with that. Once the flirting or jokes become to personal for just friends I drop the ball, no text response or I joke it off. I know them very well now and although wonderful men they are not what I need for me. We all have an inner voice that tells us if something is right for us or not. The problem seems to be that we don't listen to it most of the time. Instead we listen to our bodies and emotions which take us no where if what were looking at is not a good fit for who we really are. Remaining true to ourselves is important if we want to meet the right person. Being ourselves is important or we will have to fake it the rest of our lives to support that relationship or it won't work. Physical attraction is not love its just having the hots for someone. Attraction takes but a moment to happen and it can feel like love or like were falling in love but it isn't love. Love comes after getting to know who the person is which is why they call it falling in love not jumping. Falling into a true state of love takes time and for some reason we all seem to be in a big hurry to make it happen right now. The bad part about learning this in life is I didn't date as often after that. It's not that I am a snob or think I am better but I am picky about who I am with in a different way now. I would rather be alone than date someone for a long time knowing I can never be in love with them. I wasted three years of my life doing that and I mean wasted. What did I miss that was real while I was playing at love or life? Now I see red flags when I talk to a man I never saw before. Why? Because now I know me and what I need for myself and in a relationship. It slims down the pickings so to speak but well worth it. Saves me loads of drama, heartache and I have a more satisfied feeling internally about myself. I found it's important to know how to be alone before we share ourselves and our life with another. It makes for a growth in us we don't get otherwise.
Right now my dating style believe it or not is seeing more than one man and sleeping with none. I see no point in starting something ( love relationship) have no intention of finishing.

I have learned a lot from the men I date. Since I don't sleep with them were much more open and honest. Don't misunderstand I am sure they are getting it someplace but it is none of my business so we don't discuss it. Nothing is muddled up like it is if you are in bed together. I know they are still attracted to me and they test me once in awhile in that regard but I don't move on it. I was recently told by one of them that I took his breath away the last time he stopped by. I was in jeans and a tank top working in the garden when he pulled in. Then he said I have a mystery or magic about me and when he saw me that day he had trouble getting his words out and yet I have known him a long time. It is funny how others see us compared to how we see ourselves. I have learned a lot from these men both about how men view me and myself. It is nice to know they like me for who I am not just want me. You can make anyone want you for a moment but to have them really like and respect who you are. Wow! I think that is the best compliment you can have from a man.

Good luck to all of us no matter what our dating style is.

To: we all date but for different...

Let me clear something up. In the past 40 years, I have only dated 8 men that I became intimate with (dated more but no sexual intimacy) - not because the offers weren't there but by choice. I learned much from my parents and male friends in early years to know what I wanted in a loving relationship. When I dated I also observed: how he treated his parents, siblings, pets, friends and importantly his enemies (to see if revenge was enacted). I too dated one for three years and he worked hard to bury the fact that he had severe anger issues and I mean severe. I could not marry someone like that. I did not see it as a waste of three years, I saw it as a life experience. Sure I made mistakes but I learned something from them, that's how we grow and move on. I too have a heart that can easily fall in love but I never gave myself away freely. My life hasn't been perfect and despite the ups and downs, I wouldn't change it for anything.

To Legslyndy clearing something up.

I am not sure why you feel the need to clear anything up with me. I was talking about my experience and what I learned from it not yours. I could have done something better with my time. That was my lesson from those three years. It cost me a lot to be in that relationship and the only reason I was in it to begin with was because he lied and manipulated until he had me then he started the abuse. It took me two years before he stopped stalking me. I don't walk into to things that are bad for my life on purpose it is usually because I don't have all the facts. We can't make good choice's based on falsehoods and that was all I got from him but didn't know it until it was too late. I did soon after he knew we were a couple then it was as if I was a piece of property he was never going to give up. What I may have needed to learn was not to let men push me into a relationship so fast and I did. But I could have skipped learning that altogether and still been okay. I don't meet that type for the most part. The kind that can't take no for an answer. It turned out he was a full blown narcissist/psychopathic. He later married and his wife had the same problems. At some point (court ordered) he had to get help for this and that was when I found out why he was like that. It was not the normal scenario for a relationship nor were there many lessons to learn I did not already know. I was presented with something false or I would never have been there in the first place. That to me was him wasting my time, heart, energy, peace of mind, money and more. I already knew to stay away from jerks. My post had nothing to do with you. It was about how I feel concerning dating and what I learned from my experiences in life so I see no need for you to clear anything up with me. However I am glad to read that you are happy with who you are and your life. It's a nice feeling and usually well earned.

To Anonymous

I apologize if you took my response for any kind of attack, it was not meant to be such. I wish you well in your future and I hope you find much happiness whichever road you decide to pursue.

Legslyndy

No problem and thanks for letting me know. Sometimes without a tone of voice what we read can be misunderstood. I hope you find much happiness to.

good piece of writing ... but

good piece of writing ... but I am little confuse on last part because these days most people become judgmental all of sudden especially when you open your self to them. This very thought keep me mysterious all the time and like not to discuss my core issues ,secrets or life events. How to get rid of this nasty thought if it is in fact nasty.

To: good piece of writing....but

I understand where you're coming from and I was a little mysterious in the beginning. I've always had male friends (I didn't date or bed them) and we'd talk about life, dating and marriage. I learned early that it's just better to be upfront and honest. "What you see is what you get. Here I am, this is me". This way the men understood me, where I was coming from, what I was looking for, etc. I knew exactly what I wanted and wouldn't tolerate lies. Some men were very attracted to my approach and appreciated the honesty. I found this worked for me, I was able to separate the toads from the real men. May not work for everyone but I am happy being me. Part of who I am I can thank my parents for - they liked each other from the age of 12 (74 years now), were friends until 19 when they started dating and at the end of this month celebrate 63 years together. They still kiss, hold hands and love each other to pieces.

Dating Rule #7 -

Dating Rule #7-
Never ask your partner : 'How many men (or women) have entered your life till today?'

Legslyndy... I understand where

You are right about it separating the men from the toads and about being yourself. There is no way to draw what is right for us unless we behave as ourselves. If they move on because of it I consider it a bad match to begin with so no loss. Not all women have figured this out yet.
How nice to hear that your parents still kiss, hold hands and love each other to pieces. You don't see that much anymore. My parents divorced when I was young so my dad wasn't in the picture much. It warms my heart when I see a couple that has been together for years and you can tell they still love each other as much if not more than the day they were married. You were lucky to have parents that had this part of their life together.

I understand where.....

Thanks Bobbi...I am so very proud of parents for loving each other the way they do and being each other's best friend, especially in the last two years where my father has assumed the role of nurse for my mom. I'm not saying their marriage was perfect, every marriage has trials, tribulations and compromise but they sure complimented each other and I learned it's ok to have a difference of opinion as long as you respect it and each other in the end.

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Jill P. Weber, Ph.D. is the author of Having Sex, Wanting Intimacy—Why Women Settle for One-Sided relationships.

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