Thank you for the excellent information on how children learn.

Hi Peter,

I'm fascinated by this. I can really see the ideas you present play out in all areas of life and not just in children's education. After all, every one of us is both a student and a teacher throughout our lives, aren't we?

I have some questions (at the risk of exposing my ignorance) :-) :

1) Do you think this can be applied to all the different learning styles? Will it still work well with those children who seem to prefer order and structure by an authority figure?

2) Would this model go all the way from kindergarten to high school? What is the range of age in which the children are learning together?

3) How long does it take for children to build enough trust in each other to be able to learn together? Doesn't complete freedom require elimination of the fear of judgment and/or ridicule?

4) Where does the need for competition fit into all this?

Finally, I wanted to share an awesome speech I came across a few months ago. You will love the concluding paragraph:

http://www.hal.rcast.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~drebes/value.html

Linda, I agree that these ideas play out throughout life, and that is one reason why an age-mixed educational environment is more like the rest of life, and better training for the rest of life, than an age-segregated educational environment.

Let me take a stab at answering your questions, or at least hinting at possible answers.

1. I do think this model works well for the whole range of learning styles and the whole range of personality types, with the exception of those who have serious disorders (such as autism) that prevent normal social interaction. The reason it works for the whole normal range of people is because it allows each person to learn in his or her own preferred way. Some people are quiet and reflective and think things through fully. Some people are quicker, more outgoing. That's how they are and that's how they learn. Some people prefer to go into each day as an unknown adventure, just letting whatever happen that will happen. Others, however, like to think ahead and structure their day, or their week, or their month, so they do that. Some people like the structure of organized classes, so they ask for classes and follow through on them. All of these styles work. People figure out how to navigate their environment in a way that fits their preferences.

2. As I said, Sudbury Valley has about 200 students, who range in age from 4 on through high-school age (age 18 or so). It seems to work great for everyone in that age range, and I think such a broad mix is valuable for everyone. The 18-year-olds are sometimes almost like uncles or aunts to some of the 4-year-olds. They are, I think, learning to be parents. In our culture we provide very little opportunity for people to learn how to be parents, until they actually are.

3. Good question about building trust. I think it varies a lot by child and by the experiences they had before starting Sudbury Valley. Some kids have been somewhat traumatized by school or by bullies and it takes them awhile to feel that they can trust the processes of the school and trust the kids and the staff. For most kids, though, I think this happens pretty quickly. You are absolutely right that freedom requires elimination of the fear of judgment and ridicule. That is part of the reason why the school takes such a strong stand against any kind of testing or evaluating (judging) of students. Everyone has to be their own judge of themselves.

4. Your question about competition would be a good one for another post. Competition can mean several different things. I think that competition in the sense of beating someone else, proving yourself better than someone else, doesn't happen much if at all at the school. My observations, not just at Sudbury Valley, but in neighborhood and playground contexts as well, suggest that kids on their own are not really much interested in that kind of competition. We adults tend to put them up to such competitions when we organize sports leagues and act like winning matters, and when we grade kids in school and act like being in the top X% matters. I think we are doing something quite harmful when we do that. On the other hand, there is another, healthy sense, I think, in which kids naturally see and admire skills in others and strive to become that skilled. Here the goal is not to beat the other, but to acquire the ability that you admire so much in the other person. That I think does happen at Sudbury Valley.

Well, again, these are just hints at answers to your questions, ideas to think about.

Hello,

I recently discovered SVS (although my kids are too little to attend yet) and I used to teach in a mixed-age environment. I agree with all of your observations about age mixing.

Some of your comments in this post (esp the first paragraph) remind me a great deal of some of John Rosemond's parenting advice. He insists that a parent's job is not to be the child's playmate: that is what other children are for.

It strikes me as very interesting that someone with such a radically different (and decidedly non-democratic) view of parenting would come to some of the same conclusions as Mr. Greenberg and the pro-SVS community.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

Thanks for the great new(ish) blog,
Heidi

Thank you so much for your reply. Yes, it does give me much more to think about (and ask more questions.) ;-)

The reason for my Question #1 was because when I bring up this topic with various people, including teens, I've been getting a wide range of responses. For example: I, myself, would thrive in such a setting. I wish I could go back and do it all over again at a school like Sudbury Valley. On the other hand, my 16-year-old daughter (a gifted junior in high school) is not at all attracted to the idea. My 14-year-old son, who learns almost everything he knows (I'm not kidding!) from South Park and Family Guy episodes and hates reading books (also a gifted student), loves the idea. He also learns a lot from his gaming buddies on-line, who range in age from 12 to 35+. I just try to make sure he thinks through all new information before accepting them and that his filtering system (values, ethics, morals, etc.) is healthy and in working order.

I'm anxious to read your (possible) future post dealing with the subject of competition.

re autistic: i volunteered in a swimming class for autistic children, and observed a little girl who seemed to learn much more by playing informally, and imitating, her non autistic older sister than from the formal class, which stressed dependence on the teacher.
Second, even though i'm very attracted by the idea of age mixed play, i'm also leery that our preconceived notions could bias what we observe. so i'd like to see a more systematic and scientific approach to observing what happens at SVS.