Freedom to Learn

The roles of play and curiosity as foundations for learning

Peter Gray, a research professor of psychology at Boston College, is a specialist in developmental and evolutionary psychology and author of an introductory textbook, Psychology. See full bio

August 2, 2008, Child Development

Comments on "Children Educate Themselves III: The Wisdom of Hunter-Gatherers"

Children Educate Themselves III: The Wisdom of Hunter-Gatherers

By Peter Gray on August 2, 2008 in Freedom to Learn

Our human instincts, including all of the instinctive means by which we learn, came about in the context of a hunting-and-gathering way of life. And so it is natural that in this series on children's instinctive ways of educating themselves I should ask: How do hunter-gatherer children learn what they need to know to become effective adults within their culture? Read More

The modern world has created

Submitted by Dyhppy on August 4, 2008 - 9:39am.

The modern world has created so many complex artificial hoops like AP tests, entrance exams, proper brown-nosing techniques to use with the boss, etc if our reality was anywhere near in touch with it's genuine roots as opposed to shiny facades, this type of observational education might work. In the meantime, the robot factory is running at full steam.

Bashing

Submitted by Shamrock on August 5, 2008 - 9:34am.

It's true that the robot factory appears to be up and running, full steam. However, you know, when we examine a system that is already in place, it is facile to come up with negative commentary. I'm guilty of this, too, as a parent who is not at all satisfied with much of the learning system in place as it is today. What I'm interested in is what you seem to be getting to, Mr. Gray--the what DOES work, instead of the what DOESN'T. In that vein, I wonder if direct observation by children of the adults immediately surrounding them in the context of our current society may be exactly what is needed when you factor in the various unsavory social cues (i.e., brown nosing) rampant and in some cases unavoidable. I mean, do we want our children to be like the proficient liars, ambitious cut-throats, and self-efacing puppets whom we work with (who we are)?

I think it is important to see what your next post will entail, and I want to discover if what works on a small scale could indeed supplant the school system we know and revile today. I'll be honest here and point out that our teachers are doing a helluva job with limited resources, reticent students, over-ambitious parents, and less than satisfactory learning settings. I don't fault the people. Indeed, if what you write in your next post is a system that can be impelemented structure-wide, I want to know what's the hold up?

Looking forward to reading more.

A moral environment for education

Submitted by Peter Gray on August 8, 2008 - 8:18pm.

Dear Dyhppy & Shamrock, Thank you both for your insightful comments. You anticipate a point that I will touch on in my next posting and will focus on even more in a future posting. When we think about creating an educational environment for children and teenagers our number one concern should be how to create a MORAL environment. The educational environment should be one in which the adults as well as the children and teenagers present are held accountable for their actions and where everyone takes part in the legislative and judicial process of the school. The adults in such a setting should be people who represent, in their daily behavior, our highest values. They should be creative and productive, but most of all they should be moral, kind-hearted, and loving. In any setting, including our traditional schools, the most important lessons that children learn come not from the verbal lessons taught but from the behavior that is actually modeled by others who are present. An unfortunate aspect of our public school system is that students are more or less trapped with whatever teacher they are assigned to. They do not have the opportunity to seek out adults whom they admire, but rather must spend hours every day in the classroom with just one or at most two adults, who may or may not be people they can (or should) look up to. -Peter

Some Similarities Today

Submitted by Charlotte Wharton on August 6, 2008 - 5:14am.

There is some element of the hunter-gatherer observation/play learning at work today in farm families and other small, family owned businesses. Young girls exhibit this behaviour with their dolls, toy kitchens, etc. In our society, most of work is removed from the child's environment as noted in previous post and when children attend school, the process becomes almost removed from reality and certainly is more prescribed. There are efforts to reconnect education to the work world with things like contextual learning.

I think it would be interesting to imagine a context where children learn math for example by observing and playing.

I believe we might learn a lot about learning by looking through the lense of the hunter-gatherer.

Math

Submitted by Peter Gray on August 8, 2008 - 8:35pm.

Charlotte, Good point about the fact that children today do, in many contexts,learn through observation and play. Your point about math stimulates many thoughts. I think we make a big mistake to try to teach math abstractly, as if it is something to learn for its own sake. I remember as kid, in about third grade, thinking how strange it was that so many of my friends were baffled by long division in school but had no trouble figuring out their own batting averages. For most of us math is a tool, and when it is learned as a tool it comes pretty easily and naturally. I have seen kids learn lots of math in the context of playing games like Dungeons and Dragons (which involves multi-sided dice and an understanding of probability), or in playful cooking (where recipes have to be cut down or multiplied), etc. When people learn math for concrete purposes it makes sense and they remember it and don't develop the kind of math phobias that are so rampant among the products of our school system. -Peter

Very interesting subject

Submitted by Encefalus on August 8, 2008 - 2:00pm.

I believe we have a lot to be taught about these people that many still call "primitives". I believe that the educational system hinders creativity and hides our potential. If you want check out a few things I've written at http://encefalus.com/cognitive/bolster-your-creativity/

Thank youi

Submitted by Peter Gray on August 8, 2008 - 8:25pm.

Encefalus, Thank you for referring us to your very interesting page. I love it. Lets keep in touch. -Peter

life, the universe, and everything

Submitted by Fred Schueler on August 13, 2008 - 3:19pm.

That's very clearly expressed. I nievely learned all that by reading the New Testament (which is a revival of egalitarian hunter-gather ethics) and Peter Freuchen's "Book of the Eskimos" in the 1950s, and then found it scientifically worked out in Val Geist's 1978 "Life Strategies, Human Evolution, Environmental Design: Towards a biological theory of health."

Yes, it works just as well now as it did in the h-g societies, as every unschooling parent and offspring will tell you. The principles of unschooling are that "learning grows out of day-to-day situations, scholars have a free choice of what and when to study, no work is done to be wasted, and there is no evaluation for the sake of evaluation." -- see http://www.ontariohomeschool.org/HRLeeds.html -- which also quotes Geist on education.