- Home
- Find a Therapist
- Topic Streams
- Get Help
Mental Health
Addiction
ADHD
Anxiety
Asperger's
Autism
Bipolar Disorder
Depression
Eating Disorders
Insomnia
OCDPersonality
Passive Aggression
Personality
ShynessPersonal Growth
Happiness
Goal Setting
Positive PsychologyRelationships
Low Sexual Desire
Relationships
SexEmotion Management
Anger
Procrastination
StressFamily Life
Adolescents
Child Development
Elder Care
Parenting
SiblingsRecently Diagnosed?
Diagnosis Dictionary
- Magazine
- Tests
- Psych Basics
- Experts
A new series of experiments looks at the impact of pornography. When people see a woman in a pornographic image, do they think of her entirely as a body and not as a mind? Or might they neglect only certain parts of her mind but continue to focus on others? Read More
ascribing strong feeling
Sorry but the first thing that came to mind when reading this was, jeez guys, it looks as though this would mean that men watching porn want to see their position as more powerful. As in they the men would be able to have More effect on the feelings (read pleasure) of the women by doing all the things they see being done to the women.
ascribing strong feeling
Sorry but the first thing that came to mind when reading this was, jeez guys, it looks as though this would mean that men watching porn want to see their position as more powerful. As in they the men would be able to have More effect on the feelings (read pleasure) of the women by doing all the things they see being done to the women.
strong motivations
What if you showed individuals, male and female, displaying other strong motivations? For example, individuals in an angry attack posture, a sad yearning posture, an excited determined posture.
I would predict that you would find similar results. Individuals who are expressing strong emotional-motivational states will be perceived as having greater motivation (what you call experience) and less self-control (what you call agency).
Is there any reason that you would predict this is phenomenon is specific to sexual motivation and to women, rather than more general?
Cindy
Just more female nonsense
These are all just issues of control. Women do whatever they can to control all situations, often by use of emotional manipulation. So, if men enjoy porn, women need to figure out a way to try to take it from them, or deprive them of the fun and pleasure. Hence the nonsense of " objectification" put forward by feminists, many of whom are just misandrist lesbians. How about: "isn't it wonderful that men are so excited by the female form and derive pleasure from it. I am so happy that my man gets pleasure from watching sex with women, and I am stimulated to do with him the things he finds pleasurable."
Why are there no studies on how women objectify themselves as materialists by s hopping like addicts , and oboe croft men by fantasizing about the stuff their wallet will buy for them? We have allowed a misandrist lesbian agenda dominate American discourse, and self-doubting uncritical women have bought into it.
More female nonsense
Objectification isn't nonsense. Some men who use porn cannot differentiate between three dimensional women and the ladies of porn. Subsequently, they attempt to manipulate their partners into performing the unrealistic porno moves they view and they cannot understand why their partners get upset.
I have dated men who are into porn. I didn't have any objections as long as they didn't expect me to get involved. Everything was always fine, for a while until they expected me to perform certain sexual manoeuvres derived from porn, even though I'd already told them I wasn't interested.
It's incredibly arrogant to dismiss other people's experiences. And unless you've been treated like a piece of meat for you partner's delectation, you have no idea what it feels like.
Well...
It sounds like he had been!
Female Judgment and Alleged Supreiority
Sarah:
Your response nicely reflects the nonsense I described and refferred to in my post. You watch what other women willingly do on camera to pleasure a man and you judge it by whatever your distorted female norms are e.g., ""good women" don't engage in oral sex; intercourse is "dirty", men are just beasts, women are pure and superior.." and then you just ASSUME your biased judgment is correct because it's female. E.g., "unrealistic porno moves..." "piece of meat.." " etc. What you are saying, quite simply, is you think you get to make all the rules and your decisons/opinions/biases are "right" because they are female!!
You are placing your judgment on sex acts depicted in "porn" and then trying to come up with some justification/support for your judgment and alleged superiority. Thus, "objectification.." "pierce of meat...".
Simply put, many men do not see it that way and many women perfoirming those acts are enjoying themselves, either because they actually enjoy making a man feel good or because they enjopy the acts period. Sex is pleasure and pleasurable and women withhold it and control it in the name of some nonsensical label like "objectification."" It's all just another way of women saying: "I demand to get my way and I don't care at all about what my man or anyman wants. he doesn't count; the only thing that counts is what a woman wants.. " and we will hide our selfishmess and purported superiority behind loaded labels like "objectification."" I'm just fine when women "objectify" me sexually. Indeed, I wish they'd do it twivce a day forever...
I am a woman. I love having
I am a woman. I love having oral sex and intercourse daily or more. I hate porn and have no wish to be in engaging in sex that is painful and icky (anal sex) or involves another woman -(being hetrosexual). I suppose I must have 'distorted female norms' as well and am thus selfish, selfish and controlling. Golly, I'll surely lose sleep over this tonight.
Putting words into my mouth.
Thanks Ouch! for your somewhat hysterical and misinformed reply.
I was expressing my opinion regarding the way in which I've been treated in the past by some men who couldn't differentiate between me and the women in porn movies.
The point you seem to miss whilst accusing me of holding opinions which are frankly a figment of your imagination, is that a lot of stuff which occurs in porn isn't to my taste. Not once did I judge porn actresses, nor did I judge my exes who enjoyed it. I was upfront. I told them I'm not interested in porn. I never said I wouldn't allow them to watch it. I said I wasn't going to engage in stuff they'd seen whilst watching porn. Initially they said it was fine and then as the relationship progressed they expected me to acquiesce. By the way, how do you ascertain the infinite possibilities of sex, the dimensions and the myriad of flavours which I can enjoy, simply because I have no interest in porn?
Are you psychic?
You need to chill out. Everybody is different. Some people like porn it, some don't. It has nothing to do with selfishness and superiority on my part. Moreover attacking all women as though we are one homogeneous group is madness.
And as far as your definition of objectification is concerned, you really need to consult a dictionary.
Well said!
Well said!
Sticks, stones and fantasies
Well Sarah, apart from trying to be snarky and personally insulting to OUCH!, all you're saying is that YOU personally don't want to do what other women not only do, but do in front of cameras without shame or guilt. Your retort definitely does make the Ouch! point: you personally don't want to do what some men want. How does that get "feminized" into: "porn objectifies women" which, apparently from a female perspective, is something really bad?
Isn't it really about power? Women want to control sex and use it as power by withholding it. Porn empowers men, because they see that there are women who freely engage in pleasurable activities they like, and they know that if their partners/lovers refuse, they can buy the pleasure as a service or find someone who will provide it. So, porn empowers men and reveals the withholding nature of many women. Isn't that the REAL reason women dislike it? They don't want to provide pleasure to men? And they don't want thier withholding to be disempowered?
Here we go again...
Gosh! So much anger.
What can I say Pornisnormal? Again, like Ouch! because porn isn't to my taste, you presume to know what kind of sex I indulge in.
Those exes were adults, as we all are. They were free to find someone who loves porn as much as they do. Sex is a two-way street. Why would anybody want to coerce their partner into doing something they don't want to do, under the auspices of empowerment?
What people do within the confines of their own bedroom is their concern. I have no interest in power play because life is too short. I am one woman. This is my opinion. I don't speak for all women. Nonetheless, your sweeping generalisations, searing indignation and lack of coherence aren't helpful to the discussion.
However, since you hold such lurid insights into many women's thought processes, perhaps you and Ouch! should utilize your mystical and observational abilities and go into business together.
You'd make a mint.
Well said, Sarah. The
Well said, Sarah. The hysterical generalizing that's being thrown at you is silly and misplaced.
Well
Sara and Kay:
You personally attack and insult the posters, but you fail to address the merits of what they said. Sara said she dislikes porn because it shows other people doing things she dislikes. Fair enough. But why does she, or anyone else, have a right to tell other people that what they like is somehow inappropriate or to be condemned? What we seem to have is some women don't like it and they assert a right to control it. The weapon they use is calling it names like "objectification". Men could just as easily call women's aversion to porn "Frigidity and sexual fear and loathing" but they don't.
Gosh Sara:
Well Sara, you accuse others of anger while hurling sarcastic personal insults at them, rather than addressing the merits of their arguments. Who is it that's angry? Given your dislike for porn and certain sex acts that others find pleasurable, how is it that you and other women denounce porn because it "objectifies" women? Aren't you just saying you're squeamish about what other people are doing on screen?
These days...
These days, so many of the "ladies of porn" are there voluntarily and for no pay. They're not making videos for Vivid, they're making videos for various amateur sites just for the fun of it.
You have any data backing up this point?
I've seen this assertion made several times but remain skeptical.
In 1988, an exhibitionist could easily crank out a VHS tape & mail it to a pornography company. This was no more technical than uploading a video from your smartphone. Though it was more expensive, maybe a couple bucks for the tape & shipping. So we have SLIGHTLY lowered the cost of technology required to make pornography.
It's also worth noting that many voluntary porn stars are like unpaid interns. They work for free, initially. But the retain hopes of eventually working in their field as a professional. They rarely work just for the fun of it.
Finally, "amateur" pornography is a lot like "reality" TV. The creators are often motivated to create the illusion of non-professional production. Not to mention the possibility of pornography being made without the consent of the performers.
PS-great article from Mr. Knobe. Even as a porn-skeptic, I've never believed that sexuality turns men into unfeeling psychopaths. That narrative actually feeds the lie that male sexuality is something to be feared. In fact, many porn advocates endorse this line of reasoning when they claim that porn is an necessary outlet for male sexuality.
The Geek Kings of Smut
See this article from New York magazine:
http://nymag.com/news/features/70985/index2.html
That'll get you started on the data for which you're looking.
As a woman who loves porn...
....I do not see women objectified, I see women enjoying their bodies and those of their partners. I see women who are letting their "inner dog out for a walk", so to speak. I do not see these ladies as victims - they are thoroughly enjoying the acts they are performing. This is especially true of the amature web sites.
Some of the sexual scenes
Some of the sexual scenes will probably have more of an objectifying effect than just looking at a picture. But what we have learned here is still valid. Just reflecting on the experience myself, I think that nudity evokes a cognitive metaphor that people use - that being naked means being more exposed and more susceptible to certain emotions.
What's the Real deal?
So, men like porn. why the freak is that so bad? Unfortunately, many men watch porn because the women in their lives withhold sex or just plain don't like it or find it "dirty" etc. Why should women object so much?
I believe it's fear and power. Women who want to continue to withhold sex or use it as a "weapon" to get what they want are disempowered from their manipulation by porn. Men see that other women DO enagge in sex they find pleasurable and ARE available somewhere. This is scary to many women, because now they are revealed as withholding, etc.
Indeed, porn should not be at all threatening or disempowering to women who enjoy sex and its many forms. indeed, porn is educational in that respect. It is threatening only if the woman does not want to provide the pleasure shown. So, being threatened, they come up with some explanation for their fears. they can't admit to simply being unwilling to engage in pleasurable acts or embrace their sexuality. So, they label it "objectification..."
Indeed, women should use porn to improve their sexual skills and behaviors to be more pleasurable lovers for themsleves and their lovers. But, they're too scared to accept the fact that they are less than perfect, squeamish, inhibited, etc.
This is all just labelling to avoid the real issues.
a woman who loves porn...
I'm a woman and my boyfriend and I both enjoy porn sometimes together, but mostly during times when we have to be apart, though we both prefer sex a lot more, and we both propose freaky ideas to each other and do them. I'm getting curious about what Sarah didn't want to do with her partners, but whatever. Just like her, I'm not really into anal (though I was open to it), and I definitely object to introducing a third person into bed, but I love doing other things. I doubt many guys who watch porn will ask a woman to do weird stuff like scat or golden showers. thankfully, those people are a small minority, as far as it seems anyway. It's pretty damn sad that some women withhold sex in order to gain power in a relationship. If anything, that's insulting to feminism and equality, since it implies that those women have no other type of power than sexual power and have to resort to something so low as withholding sex in a manipulative manner. This is of course different from a woman who's disillusioned and upset with her partner and is simply not in the mood, which is often the case, in which case, I think the man should attempt to comfort her and make her feel as desired as possible to get her back on her feet. Obviously he shouldn't rush to porn as soon as she has an emotional upset which stalls her libido.
I too am a woman, in a
I too am a woman, in a relationship, who enjoys porn and (i like to think) have an open mind when it comes to sex.
However, I think the issue with it is that much of the content is from a certain point of view which exclusively promotes male gratification. I suspect many of the women in porn aren't experiencing the sex that they themselves would choose to have with, say, their partner. In many heterosexual porn films the women are frequently moved from one sexual position to another by their counterpart, and more often than not, do not look particularly aroused.
I have been able to find SOME porn in which the women are clearly having a great deal of fun, and seem to be really enjoying themselves, but this, sadly, appears rare in the hardcore porn industry. Amateur porn, of course, is another source of the kind material which offers mutual gratification. Isn't that, after all, what sex is about?
I feel the singularly masculine gaze present in much of the porn out there can be damaging in a number of ways and not just to women. When my boyfriend and I met, we were both virgins but he expected me to dress up and pretty much have sex on demand with in months. At first he was unable to recognize that 'fucking' isn't always appropriate or necessary for a woman to be satisfied. He was also constantly concerned with his performance. He became hyper-critical of himself and would ask repeatedly about what he NEEDED to do to be better. I of course had no idea - having been a virgin before him, which made any situation where I hadn't come infinitely worse.
Porn, like anything else, when used responsibly can be a pleasurable and freeing thing, however, I feel it sets up completely unrealistic expectations for young men and women who are completely ignorant to the realities of sex and relationships.
That was a very well put comment
The title says it all. That was a really good perspective on what porn is or is not in contect of the relationship. Very well said.
Full Disclosure
As a guy who used to view porno i can honestly say that it destroyed me.My self-esteem went to hell.I began viewing women poorly and hating them,it caused me to have serious body image issues and depressed me to the point where i thought no woman would ever desire me because i was not endowed like the guy's in the vids.Im not saying it does this to all guys but it sure as hell does it to many.So i can imagine what it may do to alot of women.Im not saying ban it,crusade against it or whatever but there are alot of pornographers out there who engage in outright exploitive misogynistic,degrading,misandrist,sexist,racist,reverse racist trash and these people producing this questionable material IMO have alot to answer for.
To women out there: you all are beautiful creations and you are not c!m buckets.Most guys don't want the hypersexual,porno baffoonery caricture of a woman w/large breasts and perfect genitals and body.Do not believe such tripe.I wish you the best in life and may God bless you all!
I liked watching porn at
I liked watching porn at first but now I started to stop myself from watching it. I believe porn somewhat have distorted image about sex, men and women... and directly affect my image about sex. Some views I don't like include:
-sex is just for enjoyment/fun... and sometimes nothing more
-men can't control themselves
-its ok to seduce people... without thinking of consequences
-women are sluts and would want sex to any handsome men
-sex are of no consequence/unimportant
-relationships, marriages, promises, etc. are not really important
and many unsavory things that in porn is normal and actually advocated to makes sex more enjoyable. That's why I'm banning myself from porn. It just did things to you that are not healthy to your moral and body.
omg you're so cheesy, shut
omg you're so cheesy, shut up! "relationships, marriages, promises, etc. are not really important" who the fück cares???
If it's something you like then it probably isn't porn
I think this is a really interesting topic. Most men are visual,most women are not as much so, so men looking at porn is kind of a foregone conclusion. The issue to me is how the person then can either seperate or not what is fantasy versus reality.
For example, my wife is pretty reasonable about that aspect of what most males do. It doesn't do alot for her, and she has and does what she likes, and doesn't do what she doesn't like. I might want or wish more, or less of this or that, but I respect her wishes to not go certain places and for me to expect otherwise would be selfish and disrespectful to whom I consider my best friend.
There is no way that I can make a leap to actresses (and actors, too) on a video being representative of all of their gender. Some may like what they're doing, some might like the pay but not particularly the act, and some might derive other benefits from what they're doing. I don't know and really don't care.
But I do think that the feminist agenda to label all so called porn is misguided by labeling it all objectification of women. I thought it wrong when Dworkin and her other whom I ccan't remember (Catherine something) said it a long time ago, because I got the distinct impression that this was politics talking, and not real human beings. What they were saying didn't make sense to me at all. It was a way of jamming THEIR" values on other people. By itself there is nothing wrong with any of the acts performed, and you have every right to ASK your partner if they'd like to do that. What would be wrong is to expect and even impose on the other what you want just because you saw another person doing it, AND thinking that YOUR significant other would like it as well, and theen get disappointed when they don't.
Pornography is
Probably the real issue is that living in modern advanced societies make us be a lot more individualistic, selfish and materialists, constantly seeking for instant spectacular gratification, remaining eternally unsatisfied.
We modern men/women can not consider ourselves happy unless our bodies and minds are thoroughly shaken by some sort of shocking emotion. Hence, people seek for hard drugs, aggresive video games, spectacular terror movies, dangerous and risky sports, fast cars, crazy parties, and extreme sex experiences, even promiscuity and casual sex are a way to seek for strong experiences. So pornography is just another way modern men/women look for feeling alive.
It is very important that, when we are into a relationship with should attempt at all times to acknowledge our partner as a human being and that means a lot. A human being has fears, hopes, thoughts, plans, feelings, etc, etc. Of course, a human being also has a sexual life.
The problem comes when we consider his/her sexual life to be above any other aspect of his/her life. This is not the same as objectifying him/her.
It means we are treating him/her as one-dimensional human beings. It is, not as a piece of meat but as if his/her sexuality is on top of any other side of his/her life.
So pornography leads us to consider our partner's sexuality as the most important and dominant side of his/her life.
Sexuality is a human experience, so by considering our partners sexuality as the top salient aspect of his/her life, we are not taking out his/her humanity out.
But we are doing something that will make us miss the big picture about him/her.
And this will make our experience a very poor and limited one.
By considering sexuality as the most or only aspect of our lives will take us to waste our greatests potentialities.
Time is very limited, we are all going to die someday, and we can not afford to reduce our human experiences only to sexual experiences.
Consider a table. A table only works for a very limited purposes.
Consider a human being. He/she have such a vast and infinite potentialities as to one reduce them just to sexuality.
The problem is not about sexuality as it is a healthy human experience.
The problem is with us missing all of our other human potentialitues.
Pornography contributes for us to only or mainly care about our partners sexuality.
That's not objectification of our partner at all.
That's a reductionism of our partner.
That's a one-dimensional way of approaching to our partners. The sexual dimension above all. And that's a poor and very limited approach.
Very interesting research Joshua
We discussed the physiological aspects of regular porn use and it's affect on relationships in our blog:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/repairing-relationships/201111/why-d...
Thanks for your very interesting blog.
Post new comment