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How do we think about the intentional nature of actions? And how do people with an impaired mindreading capacity thinkg about it? Read More
Umm. What does it say that
Umm. What does it say that on my first reading I feel that getting the commemorative cup is intentional while paying the extra dollar is not? I mean, surely the intention is to get THAT cup because it is the largest. The fact that it is also the the commemorative cup is immaterial too me.
The intent is to get the largest cup. I don't care that the cup is special or more expensive.
Most people see this differently? really?
Cliff, yes most people
Cliff,
yes most people without Asperger have the opposite intuition (95% in the study I report in Machery 2008). I do not know what it says about you, but this is interesting.
edouard
Bad Logic
dd
The logic between intending to spend the extra or dollar or not is confusing and muddled. It was brought up before.
His intention was clearly stated that he wanted the largest cup, he agreed and was willing pay more money for it because his intent was to get the largest cup of smoothie. So because he intends to get the largest smoothie he intended to pay the extra dollar?
When? The question is annoying because at the start he was unaware of the one dollar extra. You ask if he intended to spend 1 dollar, well walking up to stand his intention was not about price, it was about size.
So when you ask me what did he intend, well the one dollar is inconsequental, he agreed to pay it to achieve his main intention and yeah after he was told he intended to pay and intended to pay more.
The point is that there is a temporal aspect to this question that really pisses off PhD types like me because you didn't clarify the question. So the fact that I bothered being thorough about this labels me an aspie solely because I had to assume WHAT YOU MEANT just so I could I give a yes/no response, not what the hypothetical person meant.
* Time, when did he intend for this extra dollar? At the start he intended to get a smoothie and pay for it. At the end he intended to pay the price asked for the largest smoothie.
* Did the author include agreement of price into the intention?
* Intent is not clearly defined, maybe you should copy the author's definition of what intention means.
Totally not an apsie >:(
Hmmm...
I agree with Cliff, even if I understood exactly what Joe-the-smoothie-buyer probably meant by saying that he didn't care about the cup being commemorative. I assumed while reading it that Joe said what he said without thinking simply to get the largest cup available, but doesn't that say more about Joe ignoring what the smoothie-seller just said to him? The seller basically just told him that the commemorative cup was the largest. So of course Joe is specifically asking for the commemorative cup, otherwise that says more about Joe's lack of attention towards the seller than it does about his intentions.
ridiculous example
His intentions both times were to get the large drink. The cup and the dollar were inconsequential.
Logical thinking
Why can't we understand the difference between intent and passive acceptance??
definitely agree with you.
definitely agree with you. who cares about the stupid cup or the extra dollar, he was thirsty, his intention was to QUENCH HIS THIRST WITH A SMOOTHIE. his intention was to get the smoothie.
Asperger Syndrome
I always thought this a practical sense problem. It's irrelevant whether one has a pretty cup to drink from if that isn't your goal.
And what does it matter what the size "looks" like? Size is size and relevant only to size, if that is your criteria from the outset.
This is what I call a common sense problem. Too many people use inane superfluous information. I often wonder how many people think before they speak and have found not many. It's irritating.
Me thinks this particular
Me thinks this particular test is better suited to who cares about bling and cash. If I'm thirsty and not feeling broke I'll go for the largest drink regardless of the cup design or price.
Bad test, try again.
Agreed. I feel that in both
Agreed. I feel that in both cases the intent was to get the largest drink available, therefore whether it comes in a big cup or costs a dollar more is not intentional.
i think you're missing the
i think you're missing the point. the guy in the question knows he doesnt care about the dollar or the cup. if someone has aspergers they dont realize this when they read the question.
Realization
Yes... I totally realize the guy doesn't care about the dollar or the cup.
no. aspergers people know the
no. aspergers people know the guy only cares about quenching his thirst so they say 'unintentional' both times. it appears that aspie and nt read context differently. if this study doesn't have a flaw (i can think of a few possible loopholes at different semantic levels) then it's really quite remarkable
I am a formally diagnosed Asperger.
I say unintentional in both cases.
I can see that the second case might be seen as intentional, by "normal people" in which case I would say the cup (and the dollar) are BOTH intentional in the sense that you go in and intend to pay/do whatever it costs to get what you require.
Interesting consideration about free will and fate is implied by this question.
Or perhaps that connection is lost on all you "normal" people, so I will not argue the point.
I just now did a task on Mturk and alerted the researcher to consider that "us Aspergers" may skew their linguistic tests as we interpret what we read differently.
Or I do anyway.
Which is why all my life I have had so many jobs and so much agro and disciplinary action throughout my working life.
So, to conclude, I agree with the comment "aspergers people know the guy only cares about quenching his thirst so they say 'unintentional' both times. it appears that aspie and nt read context differently."
We do.
So, to some of the other respondents, stop giving the researcher a hard time as if he just insulted your Religion, Mother, Wife, or kids.
If the questions as phrased in the example given, show the difference reliably as stated, then it does not matter if you can nit-pick with various parts of the scenario, the entity works as a whole as it is.
Modifying it would perhaps destroy the way it sorts us "Aspies" from the rest of you.
I'm so thirsty I think a
I'm so thirsty I think a giant ass smoothie will quench my thirst. Who gets a smoothie when they are thirsty?
Who gets a smoothie when they are thirsty?
Apparently only someone with Asperger's Syndrome.
Aspergers and smoothies
I would think if a smoothies was the only option for a drink than a person would go for it. Not only that, but anyone who is thirsty would be thinking I want a lot of whatever is available to drink, so a large smoothie makes sense. People with Aspergers do not always see every detail though. I have it and if I was thirsty, I probably would not be thinking about the cup I was drinking out of or the cost, I would be thinking fluids now, darn it. I might not say it, but I would be thinking it.
Aspergers and smoothies
I would think if a smoothies was the only option for a drink than a person would go for it. Not only that, but anyone who is thirsty would be thinking I want a lot of whatever is available to drink, so a large smoothie makes sense. People with Aspergers do not always see every detail though. I have it and if I was thirsty, I probably would not be thinking about the cup I was drinking out of or the cost, I would be thinking fluids now, darn it. I might not say it, but I would be thinking it.
Aspergers and smoothies
I would think if a smoothies was the only option for a drink than a person would go for it. Not only that, but anyone who is thirsty would be thinking I want a lot of whatever is available to drink, so a large smoothie makes sense. People with Aspergers do not always see every detail though. I have it and if I was thirsty, I probably would not be thinking about the cup I was drinking out of or the cost, I would be thinking fluids now, darn it. I might not say it, but I would be thinking it.
Aspergers and smoothies
I would think if a smoothies was the only option for a drink than a person would go for it. Not only that, but anyone who is thirsty would be thinking I want a lot of whatever is available to drink, so a large smoothie makes sense. People with Aspergers do not always see every detail though. I have it and if I was thirsty, I probably would not be thinking about the cup I was drinking out of or the cost, I would be thinking fluids now, darn it. I might not say it, but I would be thinking it.
Aspergers and smoothies
I would think if a smoothies was the only option for a drink than a person would go for it. Not only that, but anyone who is thirsty would be thinking I want a lot of whatever is available to drink, so a large smoothie makes sense. People with Aspergers do not always see every detail though. I have it and if I was thirsty, I probably would not be thinking about the cup I was drinking out of or the cost, I would be thinking fluids now, darn it. I might not say it, but I would be thinking it.
This was the first thing that
This was the first thing that occurred to me. Does that make me an Aspie?
Actually...
A strawberry smoothie is quite refreshing. I also would not be concerned about the amount spent, just the large size. I would probably throw the cup in the garbage. Yes, I'm an aspie.
What has intention got to do
What has intention got to do with it anyway? Bleh, I agree with this Anonymous person.
I agree, and I think the
I agree, and I think the real question is about the legitimacy of the article. If he is accurate, I and every other person on earth has aspergers.
I prefer to post a comment rather than NOT post a comment. I don't care about the time I've wasted, or the extra dollar of giving up my email address.
Ghosts are real?
So you're saying that you didn't INTENTIONALLY enter your email address into the email field when you posted this comment? I wonder what strange supernatural force must have possessed you to do that then :P
'Correct Answer'
The question is "Did Joe intentionally pay one dollar more?
". The answer is that Joe could only intentionally pay extra if Joe had formed an intention as to how much to pay in the first place.
For example if Joe had just arrived from Alpha Centauri with no concept of money then he could have no intention about how much to spend, and so spending an extra dollar would be an unintended consequence. He may intentionally allow the store owner to take the money but he does not intentionally pay extra.
So the answer that any person gives to that question must depend on what assumptions that person makes about the extent of Joe's intentions about cost. Not enough information is given to be definitive so people answer using their own assumptions about cost.
The 'Correct Answer' requires an additional question to be answered. Were there any assumptions about cost included in Joes intention to have the largest drink? Well the answer is probably yes because we are told that Joe "stopped by the local smoothie shop to buy the largest sized drink available". His intention was "to buy" so he probably had an assumption about cost built into his intention.
You don't have Aspergers.
You don't have Aspergers. Give it up.
Joe makes an intentional decision to pay an extra dollar - the previous offer was at "no extra cost".
You are simply trying to defend your non-existant condition.
I agree with cliff
To me they are the exact same thing. In either case, the guy said he didn't care about the cup or the dollar, he just wanted the biggest smoothie they offered. So no he didn't intentionally pay the dollar, he jsut wanted the biggest smoothie. If the commerative cup hadn't of been the biggest, he would not have got it.
Is the smoothie half full or
Is the smoothie half full or is it a half-assed experiment?
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