Cupid's Poisoned Arrow

Good article.

I am still pretty comfortable that trimming out masturbation to orgasm and orgasms in sex (per your books) is pretty sufficient without losing all contact with porn.

Any women reporting issues with orgasms leading to happiness/relationship issues? Gay folks reporting the same issues?

Quote is a bit confusing about where dopamine is produced (not in the brain) and where is has an impact (in the brain).

How it relates to the hunger hormone - interesting analogy, but need to spell out which is the hunger hormone, how it works, etc.

Wikipedia:

Ghrelin is a hormone produced mainly by P/D1 cells lining the fundus of the human stomach and epsilon cells of the pancreas that stimulates hunger.[1] Ghrelin levels increase before meals and decrease after meals. It is considered the counterpart of the hormone leptin, produced by adipose tissue, which induces satiation when present at higher levels. In some bariatric procedures, the level of ghrelin is reduced in patients, thus causing satiation before it would normally occur.

Here's a bit of what we've been learning about ghrelin, which is one of many hormones acting on the brain, of course. The situation is extremely complex, and there is a lot more to learn.

Food intake, like sexual behavior, centers on the reward circuitry and dopamine - in the brain. The reward circuitry functions as a motivation circuitry, and dopamine is the main player that activates it. The dopamine is not produced elsewhere. It is produced in the brain.

Ghrelin and, other gut hormones, act directly or indirectly to enhance or depress reward circuitry dopamine. Even insulin – once thought not to act on the brain – affects dopamine levels. Ghrelin appears to increase dopamine in the reward circuitry and thus increase motivation to seek out and eat food.

A couple of studies:
Hormone Linked to Food Appeal and Eating
http://www.medpagetoday.com/PrimaryCare/Obesity/9380
“Infusion of ghrelin into healthy volunteers led to heightened activation of the brain's reward centers in response to pictures of food.”
Ghrelin administration into tegmental areas stimulates locomotor activity and increases extracellular concentration of dopamine in the nucleus accumbens.
"Taken together, they indicate that ghrelin might, via activation of GHSR-1A in the VTA and LDTg, stimulate the acetylcholine-dopamine reward link, implicating that ghrelin is a part of the neurochemical overlap between the reward systems and those that regulate energy balance."

What the above means is that ghrelin increases dopamine in the reward circuit to get you to crave food and eat - just as extreme sexual stimuli increase dopamine in the reward circuitry to get you to do your fertilization duty. ;-)

But it all eventually comes down to dopamine. In fact, if dopamine is blocked, rats have no motivation to eat, although when fed they seem to enjoy it – suggesting opioids are the final reward for food.

On the other hand, if there is a decline in the number dopamine receptors in the reward circuitry, rats and humans will eat more. Fewer dopamine receptors means it takes more dopamine (stimulation) to get the same reward.

Incidentally, I left the simplistic explanation of the man in the above article because I thought he did a pretty good job of describing what's probably going on in the brains of many heavy porn users. Until researchers begin scanning users' brains over the course of use and recovery, we can't say for sure. But users are showing signs of dopamine receptor decline: tolerance, withdrawal, binging combined with decreased sexual responsiveness, etc.

My book talks a lot about women noticing subtle fallout during the two weeks after climax. Because the effects don't always hit us as quickly, many of us fail to make the connection. Also, everyone's "post-orgasmic cycle" is slightly different, and even different on different occasions - Probably like fractal patterns that would never be the same, but would be recognizable.

Anecdotal evidence also suggests that gay folks see similar patterns. Some lifestyles use novelty as an aphrodisiac, which is not unlike a porn user clicking from one video to the next to medicate low dopamine response after too much stimulation. Again, there's a lot to learn.

For me, the main point is that the issue comes down to dopamine (dys)regulation, however the intense stimulation shows up. The issue isn't content, it's dopamine response. As my husband once remarked, "A century ago, a woman's ankle peeking from beneath her skirt was enough to get some people going."

Once we know the challenge is dopamine responsiveness, and that the extremeness of stimulation can matter a lot, it's up to us to strike a balance. Interestingly, porn, even without orgasm, can really jack up dopamine, in part because one can easily "edge" to constant novelty. (Novelty raises dopamine.)

Hello! First, thanks for the great articles, they make a really interesting read, and this seems like quite groundbreaking stuff. I had some questions that I wrote down as I was reading your articles (I found them only yesterday and have been reading as many as I can in this short period of time). So, without further ado:

1)Is it possible get the honeymoon stage back after considerable time in the relationship (and you've had a lot of sex, releasing the "I'm done/I've fertilized this person" feelings) has passed?
2) For many males, myself included, if one doesn't masturbate, sex is too quick (or karezza is "short-circuited" if you will), so how does one overcome this? Is masturbating by edging and not orgasming (which, depending on the definition of masturbating, might actually not technically be considered masturbating) still then viable?
3) One poster (I'm sorry, I can't find which article it was in right now) wrote ecstatically about totally forgoing foreplay. I know you can't mind-read, but I was wondering what your thoughts were concerning this. Is this the definition of foreplay as a prelude to sex with orgasm? Are the posters leaving out that they are doing the karezza equivalent to foreplay (that which has a similar function to foreplay, but for the purposes of these columns isn't labeled as "foreplay" as it is not done with the intention of orgasmic sex in the end?). I ask because foreplay is essential for creating lubrication and making entry less painful, so it's hard to imagine just entry.

Anyways, these are a few questions I had when reading this. Thanks for the great articles once again.

You raise good questions, which others will be interested in too, so it would be best to re-post this query where other karezza enthusiasts might stumble upon it. Perhaps under this karezza post? http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/cupids-poisoned-arrow/201007/uncanny... If you do, I'll answer in more detail there.

In the alternative, contact me privately, using the contact feature here, and I'll happily point you to answers to your questions.

Marnia Robinson is a GENIUS. Everything he said is dead on the same problems I have. I too have looked at internet porn since I was 14 and I'm now 26 with erection issues during sex. In the back of my mind I always felt like too much masturbation and porn was causing these problems, I even asked the doctors at medhelp.com and they all laughed at me and insisted masturbation is healthy and that you can't masturbate too much. Today I will stop all masturbation and porn until I have results like Marnia.

This article has really been an eye-opener. I see a lot of my own experiences in the account you have quoted.

I am in my late 30's, have used porn heavily since my teens, and have had ED problems for a long time - at least since my late 20's, though it's only recently that it's become almost total copulatory ED. I've blamed it on partners ("I'm just not attracted to you"/"I wish you were more responsive"), the newness of partners ("I need to give my body time to catch up to my brain"), fitness levels, diet, age, stress, performance anxiety...and actually, all of those, except for the "I'm just not into you" factor, probably have a part to play. But when I realized I could no longer even masturbate to orgasm without porn - something clicked. It seems blindingly obvious now, of course.

What kills me is that I was seeing a psychologist for other issues and never talked about my porn use; he was very helpful but I wish I had talked to him about this aspect of my life - it could have saved me a lot of heartache. But like a lot of men, I imagine, I then went to a doctor, got a physical that ruled out any serious medical conditions, and got a Viagra prescription.

Lack of desire was one factor in the failure of my marriage, and the failure of a relationship subsequent to that. (That whole dynamic added another factor/excuse - "I'm still getting over the split from my ex.") And of course once my marriage failed and I was single again - porn use went into overdrive, at least once a day and often two or three times. I'm now with a new partner who I am very attracted to and with whom I am very comfortable sexually - but I still cannot perform. Thankfully she is open to frank discussions about this stuff.

I was coming around to the conclusion that I needed to ditch the porn anyway - this article has just confirmed it. It really was like reading something I could have written. So, thank you for that. Not looking forward to 2-3 months of no masturbation or porn, though, I must say!

As an aside - the discussion about brain chemistry, stimulation, and reward is very interesting. I am wondering if you see any connection or correlation between these kinds of difficulties and ADHD (which was one of the things I was seeing my psychologist for). I know ADHD folks are prone to impulsive and addictive behaviour and crave constant stimulation - a lot of what you've written about porn on this site echoes, to a certain extent, things I've read in coming to terms with my ADHD. Or is it a chicken-and-egg kind of argument?

I totally relate to the content in this article. I myself am in my mid-20's and have had ED for as long as I can recall. I also started masturbating from a very very young age - so young that I wasn't even aware of why certain things compelled me and why it suddenly stopped and I had 'finished', so to speak. So ever since a young age I was into porn in some form, but growing up in the age of the internet with hardcore flowing porn at seemingly no cost whatsoever, I had taken to it like a duck to water.

I have been to the doctors and had the medical and have been told physically I am fine. Over and over again yet I longed to discover I had an underlying disease so as to have the hope that it could be sorted. In the intimacy that I have had with women I have always relied on Viagra or Levitra (the latter is the most reliable for me) but neither provided me with the absolute solution as even they wouldn't work 100% of the time.

I had stumbled across a similar piece of information as this article last year or the year before but somehow it didn't embed itself and I carried on with the porn, 1-3 times per day with the multiple screens open with different videos all streaming - struggling to satisfy my insatiable desire. It would take a lot of effort to do one thing for hours on end, like cooking is a chore, cleaning is a chore, walking to town is effort and takes too much time. But I could surf for porn for hours, even a whole day and just casually masturbate, in search of the 'right' scene. What a waste of time - as I'd ejaculate as quick as I'd want and could have done it on the first video and had a whole day free!
Even then, my erections weren't 100%, maybe 70-80%. When I'd achieve a full 100% I couldn't believe my luck but it wouldn't stay that way for long.

I was convinced I had a physical problem with my penis, which could have led me to the porn obsession and the bad practice that follows. This may still be the case. But they have no vital answer to the physiology side to it other than to offer Viagra or similar. This analysis provided makes sense to me and is at least worth a try. I for one hope this is my problem as to have a normal functioning penis would be a godsend!

So, as of yesterday (01/14/2011) I had my last masturbation, the third in one day using porn. I will stick it out for a few months for sure. I am really eager to see changes.

Anecdotal evidence; I did do this before when I met a new girl and we became an item in 2007. I only refrained from masturbating for about 2 weeks and I had such an urge. I had also begun taking herbal treatments to improve erections which may have worked or at least worked psychologically as a placebo. I was having constant random erections on the way to see her and throughout our time. On the final day, intimacy came to a head and although I did use viagra as reassurance, I did notice a general improvement in my erection - even with viagra use before. Knowing this, I'd like to dedicate a longer period without hardcore porn/masturbation and potentially no porn again in the hope that improvements will lead me to never needing oral meds.

I will keep you updated on my progress and will be entirely honest. I'm aiming for 2 months.

Thanks again for this great article and others by Marnia!

Jake

Thanks for the links Marnia. I will certainly have a look!

A query emerged about masturbation though. When is it going to be fine to masturbate again (with no porn - just imagination?) I can abstain that is not a problem - but this philosophy doesn't totally say masturbation should end altogether indefinitely does it? Is there a point where it's positive to masturbate (sparingly)?

I have a question for the author or for others who have begun to abstain from mansturbation...

I began abstaining a few weeks ago but have lapsed on a handful of occasions. The author, and some others have described that their libido was almost non existant since they started completely abstaining. I find that for me, this has been the complete opposite which is why it has been difficult for me to fully abstain.

I was wondering if there was a time frame any of you have had for when your libido disappeared (ie) 1 week, 2 weeks etc.

I initially managed 10 days of abstinence but began getting morning erections within that period and I sometimes tested myself (no porn/no orgasm). I was very horny and it was very hard to resist orgasming. On the tenth day, I did orgasm - but it was somewhat uncontrollable due to the sensation and I ejaculated about 15 seconds after the last physical stimulation I put on my erection. This was interesting to me as usually i'd be in total control of my ejaculation and would work up to it but this was intense and had made me concerned about getting a premature ejaculation issue.
Anyhow, I abstained again for 8 days and then again the same thing happened. Trick for me is to abstain from testing or teasing myself - but as I become hornier it clouds my rational thinking and I ignore the long-term goal for the sake of an orgasm.

I really need to focus and maintain the goal in mind. As I improve even within a week, it becomes hard not to masturbate as I'm trying out the new and improved response. Obviously it's hopefully only a fraction of the improvement I'm looking for but still an improvement all the same.

Marnia, do you recommend the use of zinc, cnidium, epimedium, l-arginine etc?
What about keel exercises?

.. a few supplements. I purchased Zinc, L-arginine, Pycnogenol and Fish oil capsules. So tomorrow I start again on the abstinence which I've let slip since a few days ago.

No what usually happens is I masturbate to my imagination and then I get so close to orgasm that I end up on porn as I feel I've already crossed the line too far and so just go full hog - before resetting.

I really need to abstain beyond the first initial difficult period. Absence of mind and intrigue/happiness with improved response pushes me towards masturbating. But hopefully with this experience in mind I hopefully can endure longer periods of abstinence now.

When you mention ancestors only using their hands to masturbate, do you mean to say they didn't fantasise at all? I imagine that they did, mentally, like we do now. Or have I missed the point a bit?

Ok first and foremost thank you for publishing this article. While there are many websites extolling the evils and shame of pornography (tied inherently to the shame of masturbation) and attempts to tie pornography to desensitization toward real females, very few have gone into the real neuroscience of dopamine desensitization and sexual conditioning.

Any young man experiencing problems maintaining an erection should consider eliminating over-sexualized media content from his mental diet (not just porn, but also relatively hot tv shows and commercials). Don't get me wrong, being aroused is good! But you want it to be *real,* go outside and see the pretty girls, go to the beach! Get real stimulation. (Of course, if you have other glaring problems like obesity, smoking, poor diet/exercise, or especially high anxiety you should attempt to correct these too.)

A common mistake I see men in these stories making is trying not to masturbate. Masturbation/orgasm is good and healthy, but hours of pornography dousing your brain in dopamine (causing dopamine desensitization, which is then misinterpreted as desensitization toward real females) is a lot different than masturbating to your imagination only. In fact I recommend a certain plastic faux vagina that is advertised heavily online since it offers a more realistic sex experience for men who do not have a real partner available. Any way you do it, trying to have a natural orgasm once or twice a week is a good way to get your brain accustomed to normal levels of arousal (as opposed to the dopamine bath caused by relentless porno surfing).

An unintended consequence of not masturbating is getting overly aroused but having no outlet for it. If you would just simply jerk off you would feel a lot better! But instead these guys stroke it just to the point of orgasm and then stop, frustrating themselves, and then they wonder why they fall back in the pornography trap! Obviously they have a lot of guilt and shame associated with masturbation, but you have to get over that because it is normal and healthy (as long as you do it in a normal and healthy manner!).

Your brain has been desensitized to dopamine causing it to need an outrageous amount of stimulation to become aroused, but also you have conditioned your brain to associate sitting in front of a computer, alone, with sex. Your brain doesn't actually know what sex is, by masturbating (your brain thinks you are actually mating with a female) with a computer over and over for years your brain has come to associate the computer as the primary sex object. That is why you have the desire to see porn every time you are near a computer, even if you are just doing your taxes online. You need to get in the real world, with real women, and away from the computer so your brain can re-orient toward the actual sex object. You also need to "remind" your brain that sex is a social act that takes place between two people, not just you alone in your comfort zone with your computer.

My advice is to exercise, eat right, socialize, make female friends, avoid all sexual media, masturbate a healthy amount (1-2 times per week, using only imagination) and LOVE YOURSELF!

This is from a 28 year old man who has struggled with porn addiction since he was 11 or 12 years old. It has ruined many of my relationships, and like many addictions the desire never truly goes away, BUT normal healthy relationships and a good sex life make up for it! Today I am capable of giving a woman the love I wish I had been able to show earlier girls who I cared very deeply for.

After about a month of avoiding sexual content online and on tv ect., you will notice more spontaneous erections, morning erections, sex dreams (though I do not usually have nocturnal emissions because I do masturbate), more energy, more willingness and desire to pursue women, will be more social, more aggressive/competitive, and generally a lot more fun to be around!

GOOD LUCK!