Beautiful Minds

I was raised by a single mother with raging narcissistic personality disorder and had a completely absent father so there was nobody to mitigate the impact of her destructive parenting. I am aware of my attraction to narcissists and over the past several years (I am 47) I have realized that almost everyone I have considered a close friend in my life- both male and female - is either a narcissist or has strong narcissistic traits.
This article PERFECTLY describes a new colleague at my office with whom I have become emotionally intimate. I had early suspicions that he has a narcissistic personality - and because I'm aware of my attraction to narcissists the suspicion became very strong fairly quickly - but the initial attraction was instant; he is very funny and charming and physically attractive, and we are now very close in most every way except sexually. I have tried to understand exactly how my subconscious mind identifies narcissists and drives me so consistently to them, and this article shocked me with its accurate depiction of this man's behavior - ALL FOUR OF THE BEHAVIORAL TRAITS DESCRIBED ARE EXACTLY THE WAY HE FIRST PRESENTED HIMSELF!!!; I think it may help me more deeply understand my own attraction to this type. I guess I know the cues well and my subconscious mind responds strongly to them...maybe I'm caught in an endless cycle of trying to "get it right" with a narcissist so I can stop feeling like a failure as a daughter (?)
Will the information I learned from reading this help me learn to choose friends, etc., more carefully in the future? Where's Dr. Freud's number.....?

This is a very insightful and interesting post! Thanks!

As a side note:
I have always gone for the awkward guy; I think I've never been charmed enough by the narcissist to date him (or maybe that type of man has never been interested in me enough for me to reciprocate/pursue) and that hasn't worked out in my favour either. Most of them have had other personality/mood disorders that didn't mesh with my personality.

How could a study determine that students had narcissism--actual clinical DSM IV narcissism--based on a five minute greeting exercise and a self-report questionnaire. Self-report data is notoriously unreliable, and a symptom of narcissism is delusional thought processes so the data self-reported by the narcissist would likely be at odds with the reality, and no other students would be able to determine if another person had DSM IV narcissistic personality disorder in a five minute interaction.

Several of the other studies described here also suffer from the problem that there is a contrast of first impressions and secondary impressions but clinical diagnosis of narcissism DSM IV takes more than two or three meetings, and even if the researchers were making the diagnosis there is some possibility their own diagnoses were wrong with such a limited time frame. Plus, the number of narcissists in the overall population is not high, so how big a sampling of students were necessary to even locate some narcissists to test off of.

These studies sound specious and unreliable. Am I missing something? You take the findings at face value without explaining why the studies are more reliable than they sound. They sound superficial and amateurish.

I have a relative who was diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder and the psychologist made the diagnosis after about one year or more of weekly therapy. The therapist did not make the diagnosis in one or two weeks of therapy sessions. My perception of others' reactions to this relative is that on the first meeting and the second meeting, etc. some other people do not like this person. The flat affect is apparent right away, not after a "getting to know the person" process. I also do not see any charismatic qualities in this person to lull people into a positive first impression. The person does not disguise the manipulative qualities either.

In addition, this person has never seen a psychotherapist or felt anything to be wrong with him/her, and numerous psychotherapists have had an opportunity to "call" this person on his/her narcissistic personality disorder but had backed down from the challenge. I do not really call psychotherapists who are afraid of standing up to narcissists and telling them that they are narcissists to be particularly professional. Hiding behind the two way mirror may feel professional to the person who is hidden but for the victims of the narcissist, the cowardice of the psychotherapists means a lost life. It's funny that the emotional detachment is as much a problem for the psychotherapists who diagnose the narcissists as for the narcissists themselves. At least the psychotherapists I have seen had ethical deficiencies as big as and bigger than those of the narcissist who victimized me and others.

It would be helpful if someone like yourself could deal with your own problems, not to mention the problems of your cited studies, when you talk about the psychological problems of others.

This article was very interesting and taught me quite a few things.

I have an extremely neurotic and psychotic narcissist for a cousin, so I have learned to avoid narcissists as if they were a bunch of rabid dogs that would eventually bite the hand that is reaching out to them.

Plus, I am an introvert, so being around talkative narcissists can be really tiring after a while. Its especially tiring being around destructive self-serving people who can talk for a couple hours in like one breath...

That being said, extremely shallow and selfish people don't really have much appeal to me. For instance, a glittering rocking horse covered with gold paint may be beautiful on the outside, but, later on, a child may find that the rocking horse was not wonderful as it seemed because it was actually made out of rotten wood and broke as soon as she sat on it.

I see narcissism in myself and others but at varying degrees and not always at the same time. It is healthy sometimes in disparate situations. It's almost art; it is a performance. But is it fair? I don't know. It's at least usually polite and civilized interaction. Remote involvements. It began as a means to the end of survival, in a kind of intentional journey of wandering away from a true self, in order to forget fears of defeat / death. That's losing the game. And Narcissists like; consequently, - need to always win. It's hard to deal with the future. So, you focus on the immediate, because you don't want to lose. Realistic to a pessimistic fault. And overly analytical. As well as sensation driven. Selfish. But no on purpose, per se.

I've always thought of myself as a sort of narcissist. But the way the normal dictionary describes it, which is basically: 'Erotic Interest in Oneself.'
I don't think i am better than anyone. We are all the same. We all have problems etc... And all deserve to be treated with utmost respect regardless. Unless one is trying to kill me or something...
Anyways, I find it unfair that most people lump so many different types of narcissists into one category. Which almost always is the 'they are evil, stay away from them' one.
Also. One doesn't have to be a narcissist to at first meeting seem charming etc... Some people i'm sure end up making these types their life-long-partners with no difficulty.
I really think the world of Psychoanalysis needs to look a hell of a lot deeper into everything in and around narcissism. Because some are harmful, and some are definitely not. Though all are treated the same.

Hi Scott,
Interesting article.
It think it all depends on the relationship that the women want. If it is longterm she might choose for the shy guy (but i doubt she is looking for that in a night club).Your article seems to suggest that women dont like to go out with the "jerks" and are only interested in longterm relationships. I think they like the emotional rollercoaster, the sexuality, his humour etc... the feelings that these kind of guys invoke that the shy guy cannot provide them (but the 4 mentioned caracteristics can be developed). So if the women wants a guy for short term then the jerk or any other person showing similar behavior obviously has more value. I think most women can make this distinction intuitively but some are addicted to the jerk for emotional stimulation. If you would like to help these women then it might be more useful to look at the pattern of this addiction (self-esteem issues).

Narcissism is actually important to one's existence. Make-up, jewellery, cars, trendy clothes or anything that will make us physically better for an ordinary day or in an occasion like a job interview, a date or a reunion. These are the times that you make a way to look good, presentable or at least convincing.

And the point of this article is? I waited for a conclusion but nothing.

The best way to deal with narcissist people is to understand them, use their pretty faces to gain their favour for the sake of a better relationship or pity them.

No one is really beautiful unless you say it with feelings- like how you say it to your daughter, best friend, wife or mom.

How do you separate narcissists from psychopaths (who are not in jail)?

Another aspect is people who seem to take on narcissistic qualities as a result of fame.

As noted in the article Acquired Situational Narcissism, by Stephen Sherrill [NY Times, 2001], referring to the research of Robert B. Millman, professor of psychiatry at Cornell Medical School, "People who aspire to stardom tend to be more narcissistic than others, but they don’t develop a true narcissistic personality disorder until they begin to achieve success: the first platinum album, the first appearance in Vanity Fair’s ”Young Hollywood” issue, the first public fling with Winona Ryder. Fame, money and, even more, the pheromone-like power of fame and money provide the situation for Acquired Situational Narcissism."

From my post Celebrity and narcissism
http://talentdevelop.com/122/

I've got 2 comments to make:

1. I think American culture is more set up than most other cultures to admire narcissistic personalities. American culture promotes self-confidence, snappy dressing, the feeling that anyone can be anything he/she wants to be (so you should "act as if" even though there is no substance to your act), and the art of manipulating others.

There are some benefits to having our culture (I say "our" because I am assuming that most readers here are also American) value those qualities; in the population they can increase self-esteem, striving for success, a feeling of equality (at least not a built-in, class-based feeling of inferiority which many children in many cultures grow up with), learning how to 'win friends and influence people', etc.

In my opinion, American culture has pushed all these things too far in the last 30 years and it's unpleasant to live here now, with the media focus on and public idolatry of mediocre 'celebrities', cosmetic surgery, bling, surface without substance, and whatnot.

American psychology has long been criticized for its myopic focus on the American culture, specifically the sub-culture of white, middle-class college sophomores (which has some very good reasons behind it, of course). I think that these studies on narcissism are very interesting, but perhaps more work should be done before they are applied to the human condition as truths.

I lived in 4 countries in Europe during 14 years of my adult life, and I certainly don't think that those 4 features of narcissism would be seen to be as attractive on first meeting as they are in the US; this would also vary by country/culture within Europe.

Many people from the rest of the world see Americans as shallow, stuck up their own rear, manipulative, greedy, and slick. There are some truths to that, but of course there are many decent, genuine, deep, thoughtful Americans who end up being tarred with the same brush. The result is that people from other cultures can see a genuine warm expression, nice clothes just because the person wants to look nice and isn't and egotistical prat, friendly glances, and all the rest of the narcissist's first-meeting arsenal, and instead of thinking, "This is a nice, friendly, well-presented person," they think, "This person is too surface and smooth, and I'm going to automatically dislike and mistrust him/her before I get used and abused by him/her."

Which brings me to the second point:

2. What about all the people who aren't narcissists and who make a good first impression on people? They dress well, are friendly, have nice facial expressions, exhibit some charm, etc. People who have been burned by narcissists in the past often have a reaction against such people, disliking them immediately, based on no evidence. It is a strange kind of discrimination.

Yes, it may be apparent that I feel that I am in this category. A kind, thoughtful, modest person who tries to have a presentable appearance, who has a nice smile, who is confident and friendly to others -- however, I get a lot of resistance and wariness from some people, who don't know me at all, just because they think I'm putting on an act (when I couldn't be more down to earth), and it's very deflating and saddening to me.

As I implied, this happens to me much more in Europe, and it doesn't help my case at all that I am a blond, blue-eyed, slim woman. The Europeans always ask me snidely if I was a high school cheerleader in America because they assume from my appearance and first impression that I was a ditzy, trampy, fake, popular girl like they've seen portrayed in those horrid American teen comedies. They have no idea how much of a nerd and social outcast (because of my family poverty, teenage obesity, and my studiousness) that I was in high school!

My ex, a British man, said to me the night we broke up (after 3 years of being together) that I was the best person, deep down, that he'd ever met in his life, but that he had come to see that few people in the UK seemed to give me a chance when they met me. And first impressions are everything. It was the first time he'd mentioned this to me. He said that he had seen it over and over with his friends, my colleagues, etc. I said to him that I have noticed this too, and it breaks my heart, and I asked him why this happens, and what I could do to get people to see that I am a good soul and a very worthwhile friend, and he said he really didn't know.

What is one (one who is not actually a narcissist) to do to be seen as genuine and trustworthy? Act unfriendly, act nervous, dress dowdily? I am actually thinking of dying my hair brown and cutting it to chin-length in my upcoming job search, which has been shown to help women be taken more seriously both in the working world and in the dating world.

I don't know about the quality of that research/study. A lot of social science research is very problematic and to be approached very cautiously.

My experience is that generally the more mature and wise a person is, the less they are taken by charisma and the attractive allure of the narcissist (although this is not a rule particularly when it comes to romantic attraction). Basically the more we grow up as human beings the more we can see through the veil of appearances.

Like the other post, I think this is also cultural. Many traits we regard as very positive in the US, are not seen in that way in other countries.

First, let's clarify the role that gender plays here.

(I'd love to get a gender breakdown of the results from that study)

WOMEN are stereotypically attracted to narcissistic types. However I do not believe that the same holds true for men and their respective attraction toward women. I have never heard a man place any importance on a woman being overly confident / full-of-herself, her manner of dress or the type of car that she drives.

Rather, in my experience, men seem to be far more attracted to somewhat shy or retiring women. Perhaps this is because many of the men that I have known have been textbook narcissists and this behavior is an example of a narcissistic desire to create ego-support structures based on personality-contrast.

Which is to say, perhaps narcissistic men are attracted to women who validate them or who make them feel powerful by virtue of their own perceived helplessness.

That stated, when it comes to mating / attraction... narcissistic behaviors seem to be the lingua-franca of the dating-game for men and only for men. And as far as I can tell, it has pretty much always been that way.

(The female of the species and the games that women play are outside of the scope of this comment-box)

It strikes me that from the standpoint of evolutionary-biology, narcissism makes perfect sense. Prior to the advent of laws, courts, banking, cars, mocha lattes and lava lamps, (society as we know it) a male exhibiting narcissistic personality traits was likely to be the best breadwinner if for no other reason than the fact that he had no compunctions about taking the other guy's bread. I mean bison.

It's no different with gorillas or dogs (as in: alpha dog)... Why would it be different for humans?

Obviously, the narcissist has found his own niche in the modern world. But it would be foolish for us to assume that these primal, genetically-embedded propensities for certain kinds of survival-behaviors would simply fade away with the advent of clocks and vibrators.

Like everyone, I have my own narcissistic tendencies (Who doesn't these days?).

Having played both roles at different times in my life: the shy, introverted, dweeb and the cocky, ladies-man. I can honestly say that there is essentially no difference between the two personality types. They simply amount to two polar strategies in dealing with (what I think of as) an acute self-awareness. Or what some might call a high-degree of self-consciousness.

In other words, the narcissist suffers the same shame and self-hatred that the social-outcast suffers. But where one adopts a victim's mentality and a corresponding lack of strategy for dealing with people, the other has adopted a victor mentality and a corresponding offensive strategy.

As I write this, there is an add on television for that Youth in Revolt movie with Michael Cera: Case in-point.

I think that men are in general less inclined to fall for the narcissist's game. Whereas - upon meeting a narcissist - a woman might see a potential mate, men are instantly contemptuous of them. At least I am.

I attribute this to several factors:
(in no-particular order)

- Perceived competition
(mating: we know ladies fall for this crap)

- Perceived threat
(food/job/housing: since he is probably a sociopath, where's the line? Is there a line?)

- Lack of Personality
(Yes, it's that obvious. No, I will not have a drink with this douche)

- Lack of Empathy
(see: sociopathic threat, above)

- Mirrored Contempt
(if he is scornful of others by virtue of his perceived superiority, then he in-turn attracts the same energy from others toward him)

- Irritation
(It's bad enough I have to listen to this guy. Now she is telling me how nice he is, attacking my capacity for character evaluation and accusing me of jealousy)

- Etcetera
(...)

Drive around that block a few times and you quickly learn the skills required to spot narcissists and their subspecies. Generally before they have even opened their mouths.

The narcissist's fatal flaw lies in his total lack of humility. In a fruitless effort to patch together his own tattered ego, he inflates himself with delusions of his own awesomeness. But his sociopathic lack of empathy is always his undoing as the stability of his ego-support structure is predicated on everyone else being LESS that he is.

Thus, when he finds himself friendless and alone, it's always someone else's fault.

Ultimately, we should pity the narcissist. He cannot repair what he cannot confront and ultimately his life is devoid of any real beauty or meaning. Even worse, he's not mentally ill in any real clinical sense, which means that he cannot be treated in any real clinical sense. Thus, he seems doomed to a very empty, very lonely life... Playing king of the mountain.

I don't even know where to begin. Some other people have already commented on the actual studies, so I guess I'll just vaguely summarize my point of view; social and emotional intelligence is something to be admired. I am an introvert and I worked very hard to get to where I am.

Telling people that in order to counter narcissistic behavior they need to ignore their instincts is horrible. There's a reason we reward that type of intelligence with attention. Not everyone that hooks up in a club is narcissistic, and not every narcissist needs to change.

Hi Scott - thanks for the interesting article. It seems to have disturbed a few people. I think your point that it is only natural to be attracted to narcissists, and that we should be aware of the typical presenting characteristics and be somewhat wary before we fall into evaluating someone as wonderful after a short acquaintanceship, was well made.

Why all the Narcissism bashing? It's not "maladaptive" in the slightest. Everyone thinks they're the most amazing thing that ever walked the planet, because to themselves they ARE. Everyone uses other people for their own ends. Men, women, shy people, arrogant people. And everyone feels somewhat disconnected from everyone else, simply because they're not us.

And to stereotype every man who is "awkward" as a non-narcissist is non-scientific and goofy.

Keep in mind that Freud said EVERY woman is a narcissist, because her sexual center is herself. Whereas men were supposed to get past the phallic stage and center their sexuality in women. To Freud, gay men never got past this phase and were, ipso facto, narcissists. So in Freud's view, more than 50% of the population were narcissists.

Narcissism is a term that's thrown around with abandon, and if you'll notice it's always the other guy who's the narcissist. The guy who's slept with more women, the guy who's better looking, more confident, less of a wallflower. If that's a narcissist, then I want to be a narcissist!

Hi Scott, As a woman who is drawn to narcissist males, I loved this article. I am an Engineer, and surrounded by a whole bunch of absolutely wonderful, intelligent, rich, giving, emotionally generous, beta males who are my Engineer colleagues. I love them all and keep friendships with all of them. The problem is, I have no desire to become physical with any of them. I just can't do it.
I still find myself rejecting all the beta males who would make perfect mates and partners, in favor of the alpha males with narcissist traits. My genes seem to want their genes. Those are the kind of men I am drawn to and want to mate with. Sorry to all the wonderful beta males everywhere. :( I can't help it. I am a victim of evolution and the selection process as much as you guys. I heart beta males. I really do.
I guess it is a woman's goal to find an alpha male who has enough beta male traits to show empathy and maintain a relationship. Or a beta male who has enough alpha male dominant qualities to be attractive.

I RULE