Ambigamy

Insights for the Deeply Romantic and Deeply Skeptical

Jeremy Sherman is an evolutionary epistemologist studying the natural history and practical realities of decision making. See full bio

January 5, 2009, Relationships

Comments on "Mutual Quicksand: Managing your partnership's inevitable vicious cycles"

Mutual Quicksand: Managing your partnership's inevitable vicious cycles

By Jeremy Sherman, Ph.D. on January 5, 2009 in Ambigamy

In every love relationship I've ever had, my partner and I sooner or later discover a way in which we are quicksand to each other. You know how with quicksand the more you try to save yourself the faster you sink? Read More

Mr. Jeremy, I love you. You

Submitted by Cindy on January 5, 2009 - 5:39pm.

Mr. Jeremy,

I love you. You speak so truly to the subjects that are most important to me; so much so that I'm starting to think that I have (or that my relationships have) a guardian angel.

What ever happened to the relationship in which you wanted to talk and she didn't? Please tell me that she taught you the true healing powers of silence:)

I think that I've become almost too adroit at spotting these positive feedback loopholes, but I never called it that. I refer to it as "my curious emotional/social dynamic with so and so." To name it really is to tame it! Even if your loophole prognosis is somewhat inaccurate, at least it helps you to get control over your situation!

It hurts me so much to see how people who are close to me can beat themselves to the ground over simple human interactions. All anyone wants is to be accepted! If we can only see the loopholes for what they are and not make them out to be these barriers.

I just wanted to expand on this idea by saying that we have loopholes within ourselves as well, some of us. And I think that the same advice can be applied to personal neuroses for instance. If we look at ourselves a little more objectively and a little less seriously it is obvious that even our own self-perception, or if you will, the relationship between ego and superego, is riddled with loopholes. Maybe we must be able to name these before there can be a successful relationship with someone on the outside?

So many loops.

Submitted by Jeremy Sherman, Ph.D. on January 5, 2009 - 11:38pm.

Very very sweet, you commenting like that. I love you too being so on the same wave length and it's nice that that word is both so affecting and yet so widely encompassing that we don't have to mean anything we don't mean by it.

Heck yes about internal loops. I've written lots about them. I'll heave some of that stuff over the transom here as they very much apply.

One could distinguish these loops on three broad dimensions, one is what or who is involved in the dialectical relationship? Is it you and your boyfriend. Is it two sides of you? You and food? Etc. Etc.

Another is the force contours, do they plateau and sustain or do they amplify? Which other loops do they overwhelm? Which overwhelm them?

And then theres what it produces? Most broadly is it ultimately good or ultimately vicious or virtuous, bad or good? What does it lean your toward? I'm in a loop with the bass. I've been playing for years. I'm quite addicted. It's where I go in the evening more often than not. It's strong overwhelming temptations to watch TV or read. It rewards me reliably so I keep going back. It's got a slow acceleration, I invest more and more but little by little. It got me gigging a lot and that started another loop with singing and hanging out with certain kinds of people.

So many loops.

The loops of our lives

Submitted by N on January 6, 2009 - 12:27pm.

You call them loops and I've always called them cycles. Relating them to quicksand is the most appropriate description I've heard to date.

My question now is do you believe that loops can be broken? I've tried many years over to "break the cycle" and honestly I'm not sure that I ever really do. Whether it be a loop with another person or a loop with myself I often feel like I just change the loop. Making it smaller or larger. In one particular loop I felt successful in making it smaller then like a failure for never being able to avoid the loop entirely.

Can we rid ourselves of the vicious loops?

Yes

Submitted by Jeremy Sherman, Ph.D. on January 7, 2009 - 4:34pm.

“The Universe does not have rules. It has habits. And habits can be broken.” — Stephen Hawking Whether Hawking's comment pertains is another question, after all rules can be broken too, right? But my answer is yes and the interesting question is how. One way sometimes is by out-competing it with another loop. I always liked the old hippie saying "Don't overthrow the government, upstage it." In the same spirit I also like John Dewey's argument that in science we often don't answer questions, we get over them. Try this for an example. You've suffered a recent painful heartbreak, breakup, loss, death. You ruminate constantly about your lost love. It's a cycle within yourself. I should let go, I can't let go, I must hold on, I can't hold on, I should let go... etc. etc. What can you do to get out of that cycle. Sometimes (not always) you can upstage it, swamp it with something else. Take a trip, find some all consuming project, distract yourself. They say "you can't run away from your problems," and I agree wholehalfedly. Sometimes you can, sometimes you can morph them into something tamer, sometimes you can't. It depends on lots of factors. I'm not too far here from Freud's notion of sublimation, channelling one's libido (a sometimes pernicious cycle) into one's work. That's just one way to, if not eliminate at least render for less potent one's loops. And as for rendering them less potent I had a big aha once listening to a lecture by Ram Das. He said, "You know I have a Ph.D. in Psychology from Harvard, I had 10 years of psychoanalysis, I studied with the greatest gurus in India, I've taken every psychoactive drug imaginable and I haven't lost a single neurosis. They've just gone from being these totally daunting forces in my life to being these little snoids who come to visit every once in a while. They don't scare me any more. I invite them in for tea." That's sort of what I mean by "to name it is to tame it," or what's meant by "facing your shadow" and that's closer my aim with my worst loops. That way you may still get angst sometimes but you significantly reduce your angst about your angst. Jeremy

loops and bounds

Submitted by pastfirst on January 7, 2009 - 1:54am.

A very intersting and thought provoking article!
The quicksand theopry is true in every relationship, and in some couples the sand spirals downward at an amazing pace once it starts sinking.
All relationships get into a rut sooner or later, depending on the "chemical balance of the two people involved.
Ridding ourselves of the integral loops may be possible with the realisation and acceptance of their existence, and therefore preventing them before they occur.