MC: Well, complexity, yes. Transcendence, I don't claim to get that far. (Laughs.) But complexity, I think not so bad. My family is happy, and we are happy with each other. My work is going very well, and I've time to enjoy myself,
PT: Do you agree that the concepts that you've introduce in this book re both very complex and very simple?
MC: Well, the major principles have to do with pointing out what the major programs are that we carry in our genotype and in our culture. That is, the kind of obstacles to complexity that have been introduced by the way the nervous system works, by the emergence of the self, or by the needs we have that are necessary for survival--but can overload our circuits or get us addicted to pleasure.
So the principles have to do with the recognition of our programming, of getting the reader to sit back and say, "Now, let me think. How much of my life is really under my conscious control? How much of it is programmed for me?"
In the second half, the major principle is complexity and how to apply that to one's life in a way that is enjoyable.
These are, of course, principles that have been understood at some point by philosophers, by certain religions, by people in different cultures, by psychologists. However, I tried to interpret them in a way that is more understandable--something we can fit into the way we think at the end of the 20th century.
PT: Do you have any take-home advice for developing ourselves in the future?
MC: I think that people should realize how important what they do can be in changing both their lives and history. We are unaware, really, of the powers we have, and partly it is because we trust too much of what we are born with. We think that if you just go ahead and do what you are programmed to do, that that's what life is about.
We need to realize that in many ways life, or at least conscious life, begins only after you realize what you are supposed to do in terms of genetic and social instructions. It's only when you free yourself from the basic conditioning that we are born with do you start living.
At the same time, realize that you are free to do it or not to do it. It is up to you, and you don't have to feel guilty, you don't have to feel necessarily responsible. If you don't do it and nobody else does it, the matter will disappear, and so maybe that's how it should be. Evolution will proceed some other way, somewhere else.
PT: How do you account for the differences between you and Alvin Toffler, another prominent futurist, whose pessimistic predictions make us quite anxious. You, on the other hand, tell us that there's much to be cheerful for.
MC: What I have noticed in Mr. Toffler's work is that he takes whatever is the major trend at the moment and then projects it mechanistically into the future, which is certainly one way of dealing with prediction. It's a more or less sensible way, but it does not take into account what people can do to change the situation. Certainly, if I were to follow his method, I would come up very pessimistic, too. But if everybody becomes pessimistic and gives up trying to do something about the current condition, then it will be a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I try to point out that we have the ability to reflect on what we do and ask ourselves "Is this the only way?" If enough people have the energy to do something about it, we may move in a somewhat better direction.
PHOTO: Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi, Ph.D.
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mechanisms,
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University of Chicago
