The Prince of Reason

An interview with Albert Ellis, developer of rational emotive behavior therapy. The groundbreaking treatment rests on the premise that most of our emotional problems are based on irrational beliefs.

By Robert Epstein, published on January 01, 2001 - last reviewed on May 10, 2007

When I started to get disillusioned with psychoanalysis I reread philosophy and was reminded of the constructivist notion that Epictetus had proposed 2,000 years ago: "People are disturbed not by events that happen to them, but by their view of them." I could see how that applied to many of my clients. One was a very shy man whose father had taken him out at the age of 4 and made him shoot at birds and animals with a great big shotgun. He really loathed himself in many respects. When I showed him that he had underlying irrational thoughts that led to negative feelings about himself, he denied it, and he also denied that he hated his father. But one time I probed and probed and suggested that it was what he told himself that upset him. And he finally admitted, "Damn it. I really do hate him. I could kill him right now because he shouldn't have done what he did when I was a little boy and made me so afraid of people and things." I saw—and he saw—that it wasn't just his father's behavior, what I call "adversity," that made him angry and self-doubting. It was also his "belief system"—what he told himself about the adversity.

How did he turn out?

He didn't completely get over his shyness, but he saw that his father had serious problems of his own. He was able to accept disliking his father and to get along with him. I also had a great many sex and love cases where people were absolutely devastated when somebody with whom they were compulsively in love didn't love them back. They were killing themselves with anxiety and depression. They were telling themselves, "I absolutely must be loved by the person I love or I am no good as a person." And I started pointing out their irrational demands and disputing their shoulds and musts, and some of them got remarkably better quite quickly.

What's an irrational belief, and how can it interfere with our normal functioning?

If something is irrational, that means it won't work. It's usually unrealistic. People are terrified of other people or difficult projects because they tell themselves that they could fail or be rejected. Failure can lead to sorrow, regret, frustration and annoyance—all healthy, negative feelings without which people couldn't exist. But then they add, "I absolutely must succeed and must be loved by significant persons, and if I don't, it's terrible and I'm no good." Those are irrational beliefs. As long as people keep them, they'll be terrified of life and will put themselves down when they get rejected.

So there's a certain level of belief that isn't harmful.

Yes, like when we say that something that we're encountering is bad. We don't like it.

Then people add another level of belief—the "must" level—which is harmful. The rational belief is one that's closer to the facts, and the irrational belief includes imperatives like "must," "should" and "ought."

Yes. Rational beliefs bring us closer to getting good results in the real world.

Psychoanalysis can take decades, but you became known for producing rapid change. How did you achieve this?

My rational emotive behavior therapy (REBT) was one of the very few therapies that was originated partly or largely because I wanted to be brief and efficient. And therefore right from the start I was active and directive. I tried to show people some central masturbatory core to their philosophy and to get them to work at changing it cognitively, emotionally and behaviorally.

How did REBT develop?

I started to call myself a "rational therapist" in January 1955; later I used the term "rational emotive." Now I call myself a "rational emotive behavior therapist." But from the start, I always included philosophic techniques as well as experiential, emotional and behavioral techniques. At first I did REBT myself. Then I taught it to a few of my friends who were psychotherapists. And then I began in 1956 to start teaching it to others. In 1959, I got a great big Ampex tape recorder and recorded specific sessions that I had with people and started sending samples to other therapists. That year I also established the Institute for Rational Living, which later became the Institute for Rational Emotive Therapy and then the Albert Ellis Institute, which trains therapists and gives them certificates in REBT.

How did the profession react to REBT?

I was ostracized by most of the psychological, psychiatric and social professions. Therapists said REBT was superficial. It won't work. They wrongly said it has no "feeling" aspects. Some said it wasn't behavioral, although it was very behavioral. Critics said all kinds of things about it and objected philosophically and otherwise to it. But essentially they said it wouldn't work.

Who were the most vocal critics?

One was Fritz Peris. Whenever we were on a symposium together he would say, "I'm bored. It's too rational. It has no feeling." Many psychoanalysts refused to let me speak at their meetings. They were exceptionally vigorous because I had previously been an analyst and they were very angry at my flying the coop. Practically every other kind of therapist was opposed to REBT.

You and the thousands of therapists you've trained and influenced have used REBT with perhaps millions of people. What evidence do you have that it works?