Now that his book Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus has
become one ofthe topselling self-help manuals of all time, psychologist
John Gray, Ph.D., is launching a full-fledged psychotainment empire. He's
unveiled a chain of "Mars Venus" counseling centers, written his fourth
sequel to Mars, and in January even sold out a weeklong series of one-man
shows on Broadway. But critics argue that his interplanetary gospel isn't
so much good psychology as it is a repackaging of traditional gender
stereotypes. Is the problem that Gray thinks in black and white? Editor
at large Hara Estroff Marano casts a skeptical eye at the message behind
the man.
PT: Congratulations, you've put psychology on Broadway.
JG: Thank you.
PT: The first act of your show was an hour and a half monologue
without notes or a prompter. How did you do it?
JG: Before I wrote Men Are From Mars, I gave seminars for 10 years.
I learned which stories, which examples, entertain people and validate
them. That's primarily what I did in the show. I tried something a little
different one night in the second act by bringing celebrity couples on
stage. But the audience didn't get enough of me; the panelists were doing
their own thing.
PT: What was your goal in doing the show?
JG: To help people improve their relationships. That's my niche. I
want women to understand men. I want men to have a more positive approach
to therapy, to open up to the idea that there is more to learn about
relationships. Even healthy relationships sometimes need a counselor. It
shouldn't be a shameful thing. Your car breaks down, you don't feel
ashamed to go get it fixed.
PT: Your book wasn't a success right away.
JG: Men Are From Mars has been out five years. It came out earlier
under a different title, Men, Women and Relationships. It was a thick
book of my research into the differences between men and women; it did
very well for a self-published book. But New York publishers wanted
nothing to do with it. They thought it was sexist. Only after I sold
50,000 copies on my own did the big publishers want to buy it. I told
them that I had found that a lot of people read the book, liked it, but
didn't finish it. Somebody told me that isn't so unusual, but I wanted to
write a book that everybody would read. So rewrote it, made it really
digestible. I mean, this is popular psychology.
PT: How did you come up with the metaphor that men are from
Mars?
JG: In 1983 E.T. was the big movie. I just happened to say in a
talk, "Imagine if your husband were E.T. You wouldn't be correcting his
behavior. You'd be studying him. He thinks differently. He feels
differently. Treat him like he's from another planet." Everybody loved
it. After my next seminar, people came back and said, "You didn't talk
about E.T." So the next time I said that men are from another planet.
Everyone giggled. Then somebody asked, "What planet are men from?" I
thought, what planet would I want to be from? Mars. We [men] are
warriors, protectors. What planet are women from? Venus. It's a message
that people feel good about. They identify with it.
PT: Now you're licensing therapists to open Mars & Venus
Counseling Centers. It's like a therapy franchise.
JG: Yeah. I tried it 10 years ago. It didn't work because I didn't
have a brand name. Now [Mars & Venus] is a brand name that people
recognize and trust. Not all people, but enough.
PT: You're the Coca-Cola of psychology. Not everybody drinks Coke,
though.
JG: But if you like Coke, you know what you're going to get. The
same is true with the Mars & Venus counselors.
PT: So therapists come to you and say they want to be a part of
this. What do they do?
JG: Generally they say, "I love your work."
PT: Of course. I mean, is there a particular program of
study?
JG: There's a home study program and exams based upon my books and
videos. Then they come to training with me, which consists of several
presentations and many hours of question and answer. They give me a case,
and I show them how I would approach it.
The centers are for people who want an understanding of gender
associated with their counseling. Whatever the therapy is about, it will
take into consideration that a woman's from Venus, she has certain
Venutian needs. When I was younger and a woman came to me for counseling,
I'd give her all kinds of advice that would work for me. But it wouldn't
work for her.
PT: Because she was a woman--or because your advice was based on
your needs rather than hers?
JG: No, specifically because she's a woman. With women you've got
to get them to talk about what they feel, what is going on inside of
them. Once they feel heard, then they'll listen to solutions. As a
therapist, you have to break down resistance.
PT: I would think that that would apply to both genders.
JG: Ultimately, you always get to the same place. Helping men
understand a woman's point of view. Helping women understand a man's
point of view. But you have different routes and guideposts.
PT: I'm confused. If the marriages that succeed and the ones that
fail all consist of a man and a woman, it would seem that gender isn't
that important in marital satisfaction.
JG: It's the misunderstanding of gender that causes frustration.
Some men understand what a woman needs, some women understand what a man
needs, and they have great relationships.
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